Would You Say That Social Proof Outsells Sales Copy?

12 years ago

People have become increasingly skeptical over the years, but you appear to be more skeptical than most.

If a product is offered with a money-back guarantee, you're protected. Just make sure to purchase with a credit card instead of a debit card. That way, if a merchant doesn't honor his guarantee, you can contest the charge. Debit card purchases don't have the same high level of recourse.

In answer to your question, social proof is part of a sales presentation, not separate from it.

Alex

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

People have become increasingly skeptical over the years, but you appear to be more skeptical than most.

If a product is offered with a money-back guarantee, you're protected. Just make sure to purchase with a credit card instead of a debit card. That way, if a merchant doesn't honor his guarantee, you can contest the charge. Debit card purchases don't have the same high level of recourse.

In answer to your question, social proof is part of a sales presentation, not separate from it.

Alex

Even if a sales letter is flawless, people still search for reviews or opinions from others. If there aren't any reviews that appear authentic, then most people won't be motivated enough to make the purchase. I think the skepticism is quite common.

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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Even if a sales letter is flawless, people still search for reviews or opinions from others. If there aren't any reviews that appear authentic, then most people won't be motivated enough to make the purchase.

You're basing that opinion on personal experience.

YOU won't buy without reading reviews. That doesn't mean MOST other people won't.

If you hope to succeed at writing copy, get out of your own mind and into the mind of your prospect.

Alex

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Overcoming that skepticism is what copywriting is all about.

Copy helps your product "sell". Social proof helps your product "succeed". Comparing the two is like comparing a tiny ant and a 6,000 pound gorilla.

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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Copy helps your product "sell". Social proof helps your product "succeed". Comparing the two is like comparing a tiny ant and a 6,000 pound gorilla.

Social proof is a component of an effective sales presentation (copy). It's not separate from it.

Why are you finding that so difficult to understand?

Alex

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Social proof is a component of an effective sales presentation (copy). It's not separate from it.

Why are you finding that so difficult to understand?

Alex

A component? I disagree. I can guarantee you that the website below would outsell a website with brilliant copy if everyone recommended them.

ForumSkin - High-end forum designs

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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

A component? I disagree. I can guarantee you that the website below would outsell a website with brilliant copy if everyone recommended them.

ForumSkin - High-end forum designs

And what do you think happens next after a person goes to that site via first-person referral? Some sort of sales process.

Thus, the social proof is a part of the sales presentation.

Alex

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

And what do you think happens next after a person goes to that site via first-person referral? Some sort of sales process.

Thus, the social proof is a part of the sales presentation.

Alex

Are you saying that the copy on that site sells? The word "mediocre" would be extremely generous.

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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Are you saying that the copy on that site sells?

Nope.

The website text instructs the viewer to email. The return email will have some element of salesmanship in it.

Do you see how it all works together?

Alex

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Nope.

The website text instructs the viewer to email. The return email will have some element of salesmanship in it.

Do you see how it all works together?

Alex

No they don't. The reason why I gave you that example is because I was getting ready to hire them a few years ago but backed out last minute. How do you think I got referred to this page?

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Pusateri

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

It's funny how much you can learn from your own behavior.

Your post illustrates two biases. Both dangerous afflictions for a copywriter.

1) Projection bias - assuming others think and act as you do. Independent social proof is what you seek to the exclusion of all other factors. If that where true of most people there would be far fewer sales in this world.

2) Confirmation bias - searching for evidence that confirms your belief. Cialdini discuses six different weapons of influence in that book. Each one has it's place and power.

The greatest skill a copywriter can cultivate is the ability to stand in another person's shoes and see the world through his eyes. We have to forget ourselves and be the other guy.

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Your post illustrates two biases. Both dangerous afflictions for a copywriter.

1) Projection bias - assuming others think and act as you do. Independent social proof is what you seek to the exclusion of all other factors. If that where true of most people there would be far fewer sales in this world.

2) Confirmation bias - searching for evidence that confirms your belief. Cialdini discuses six different weapons of influence in that book. Each one has it's place and power.

The greatest skill a copywriter can cultivate is the ability to stand in another person's shoes and see the world through his eyes. We have to forget ourselves and be the other guy.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that sales copy doesn't sell. What I'm trying to say is that when you're selling a product that people have a reason to be skeptical about, they're far more likely to buy it if a credible source recommends it. One of the best examples would be information products with sales pages.

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Delta223

12 years ago

It sounds like you are just saying a warm list responds better than a cold one. I think most would agree

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John_S

12 years ago

I think we're straying from Cialdini. What happens online bears little resemblance to Cialdini's writings.

You might to better to look to social marketing, what was reffered to as word-of-mouth from friends. If you know somebody who bought ... And Then, they make some comment. That's what we're talking about with social proof.

That you as copywriter offer it does not make it proof. Proof is a standard set by the target market, not the offerer. It is not a checklist item to be ticked off.

Finally the word social has been all but destroyed by the online usage. The technical mediated noise we are subjected to online is an autistic interpretation of what social is.

In the distant hazy future, when the term "social marketing" means something other than spamming Facebook, we may be able to discuss social marketing. .... Without cracking up laughing.

At that distant jetpacks-and-flying-cars future, you'll see such things as "Five of your Facebook Friends bought ..." and you'll be able to ask them ...and they'll be able to tell you. Or "Show only those testimonials from people in my social network" button.

But that depends on a medium of communication available to all (some kind of communications network, or "net," if you will) which is so science fictiony and surreal that it borders on rank speculation at this point.

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Pusateri

12 years ago

Originally Posted by John_S

In the distant hazy future, when the term "social marketing" means something other than spamming Facebook, we may be able to discuss social marketing. .... Without cracking up laughing.

Maybe something like this?

Brandwashed - Videos - Meet the Morgensons

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Let's think about this for a second.

Why do some brands become brands WITHOUT any major advertising? Social proof of course! There are thousands of companies that spend millions of dollars, use the best copywriters and still can't achieve that. And why do people favor popular brands over unknown brands? It's because they see other people using them!

Why are some people able to position themselves as an expert without actually being an expert? Simple. They network with people who have positioned themselves as an expert and get them to endorse them. You can't position yourself as an expert simply by mentioning all of your brilliant achievements. People will remain skeptical until credible sources say that you are.

Why do some books become New York Times Bestsellers and others don't? Simple. It's because the authors appear on television and radio shows which are basically ENDORSEMENTS by credible sources. The more endorsements they get, the more books they sell.

Why do some Clickbank products succeed and others don't? Simple. It's because everyone is promoting and talking about them. If the creators were to heavily advertise their product, they wouldn't get as favorable of a response.

None of this stuff can be achieved with brilliant copy and advertising alone. A product with copy that "tells but doesn't sell" can greatly outperform other products if it's backed by social proof and the others aren't.

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BrainCopy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Let's think about this for a second.

Why do some brands become brands WITHOUT any major advertising? Social proof of course! There are thousands of companies that spend millions of dollars, use the best copywriters and still can't achieve that. And why do people favor popular brands over unknown brands? It's because they see other people using them!

The reason why they become major brands is because they
let the consumer control the product, that's called Brand Hijacking.
Red Bull does it, Starbucks does it, and even movies like the Blair witch.

It takes years to get to that level though.

Social proof is important yes, but what's most important to copywriting
is RESEARCH... if you don't know jack about your consumer, then
you might as well forget it.

Best Regards,
Anthony

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affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by John_S

I think we're straying from Cialdini. What happens online bears little resemblance to Cialdini's writings.

That's why review websites are flourishing.
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KimboJim

12 years ago

I say the two have to work hand-in-hand.

Like you, sales copy alone will rarely sell me, unless I already know the person. But in that case, the sales copy is just a formality. Now, when I look for real reviews (I usually look towards forums that won't allow you to post affiliate/CPA links) I will use that as a metric.

However, if the sales copy is bad, then unless the reviews are super stellar, I will find it very difficult to hit that "Buy" button. You need good sales copy to let people know your product really is good, but the product has to be good, which will get good reviews.

Bad sales copy is almost as bad as poor reviews. A bad sales copy won't entirely turn me off, but it starts sending up that red flag.

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affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimboJim

Bad sales copy is almost as bad as poor reviews. A bad sales copy won't entirely turn me off, but it starts sending up that red flag.

Are you saying that people don't sell products that cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars with simple descriptions? They can get away with that because everyone is saying their products are legitimate.
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- Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago
  
  Yes, I think Social Proof is vital.
  
  The "pitch" needs to be expertly written, with an abundance of proof.
  
  But what you really need is an outstanding product/service with the reassurance of a "full, no hassle" guarantee.
  
  When people buy the product and see that it is truly good - they should rave about it on the "review sites"
  
  As always the "stuff" you're selling must be the "star"
  
  The copywriting just helps to prove it.
  
  Steve
  
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  affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter
  
  Yes, I think Social Proof is vital.
  
  The "pitch" needs to be expertly written, with an abundance of proof.
  
  Yes, but if you have enough social proof you don't need some of the things that you would normally need to make a lot of sales. Social proof is far more powerful than copy in my opinion.
  
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  Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago
  
  Yes I can see what you mean.
  
  But "new" prospects may not be aware how fabulous everyone else believes the product/ service is.
  
  So, you do need the "right" amount of social proof that totally resonates with your target audience.
  
  (you could mention the delighted comments and refer people to the "review" sites, you would need to be careful in case any "competitors" posted deliberate "negative" views).
  
  I see countless pitches that just push, push and push...
  
  Screaming endlessly for the sale.
  
  Hurling everything including the kitchen sink at you.
  
  The more it happens - the more you withdraw losing all interest.
  
  No matter how much "proof" there is...
  
  If someone is bawling and howling at you - you tend to discreetly walk away.
  
  Luckily it only takes one "click" and you've escaped.
  
  Steve
  
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  BrianMcLeod 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter
  
  Social proof is far more powerful than copy in my opinion.
  
  And really, why even dick around with practical experience when you can just express wonderfully fluffy opinions instead?
  
  Even better if your opinions are backed by lots of social proof.
  
  That makes it a two-fer.
  
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  Brian McLeod
  
  Direct Response Copywriting
  
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Pusateri

12 years ago

If the copywriter does his/her job, the copy will generate plenty of sales without a single review extant. Those are the early adopters...the leaders who will provide the social proof for those who need it. That's how bandwagons are built and peopled.

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thehorizon 12 years ago

I've been reading a lot of posts by warriors on this aspect. Most of them are brilliant copywriters.

One principle is not to get your bias in the way. The only way to know if a copy is good is by testing it. The majority mindset wins, because ultimately, the sales letter is to capture sales by preselling it. There are bound to be skeptics, but as long as the copy is credible enough and sells that ultimate sizzle that you desire to know about... It will sell.

there are also many markets out there where people simply have a pretty intense need to solve a problem. That particular guarantee to solve the problem with a puppydog close will immediately hit that buying intent. For example, embarrassing health problems or issues... Many just want an instant solution and they might be new to buying online themselves.

Usually credibility can be built by very detailed testimonials... Awards... Guarantees... Social proof.

(I just used a copy technique in the first paragraph. Wasn't it more persuasive? I did read posts like these though.)
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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

If the copywriter does his/her job, the copy will generate plenty of sales without a single review extant. Those are the early adopters...the leaders who will provide the social proof for those who need it. That's how bandwagons are built and peopled.

The point I'm trying to make here is that mediocre copy that "doesn't sell" can sell far better than a product with brilliant copy as long as you have enough people saying that your product is legit. There are plenty of products out there with brilliant copy that are never going to make it. Even if they sell a few hundred people, that probably isn't going to be enough. So to say that brilliant copy alone will attract the necessary attention to get your product to the top simply isn't true. That's almost like saying that anyone with $100 million dollars can build a popular brand.

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CopyWriteHer 12 years ago

The age of your target market factors into how much weight your audience gives social proof verses sales copy. Preteens and teens will likely place more orders based on social proof then sales copy, whereas an adult might be somewhere in the middle. Granted, preteens and teens might not make a lot of purchases independently, but they heavily influence what their parents purchase for them.

Also, is your market online? A group of seniors to whom you are selling a device that makes bathing easier will probably not search for social proof in the same way a 35-year-old male to whom you are selling a muscle building supplement will.
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- ThomasOMalley 12 years ago
  
  John Carlton has the answer to this one: "Just sell the damn thing."
  
  Use all proven copywriting techniques and marketing approaches to get the sale, including social proof, such as testimonials etc.
  
  This, of course, includes preselling tactics. (see Paul Hancox's Preselling Mastery program).
  
  You can sit around the table forever trying to figure out how to sell something...just do some planning and then take action. There's a Claude Hopkins quote on that.
  
  Best,
  
  Thomas O'Malley
  
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John_S

12 years ago

Maybe something like this?

I own a copy of The Jon$es. Stealth marketing is a good example.

That's why review websites are flourishing.

That's why review websites are getting astroturfed by the companies under review. This is information warfare, kids.

IconNicholson Social RetailingÂ® - YouTube

A social, interactive, mirror.

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Pusateri

12 years ago

It would seem this thread provides social proof that your claim is invalid.

Seriously though, here's the problem: there are different types of people in the world, with different backgrounds, psychological make-ups and decision making strategies.

There are people who seek social proof. (My dad calls them dumbsh*ts)

There are also people who don't give a damn what you, I or anyone else thinks, they will make up their own minds thankyouverymuch. (Hi Dad!)

And those are just the two poles of one axis in a multi-axis complex of conscious and unconscious factors. People are not one dimensional.

Your market also matters. Some markets are ultra skeptical and social proof matters a lot. Others not so much.

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

It would seem this thread provides social proof that your claim is invalid.

Seriously though, here's the problem: there are different types of people in the world, with different backgrounds, psychological make-ups and decision making strategies.

There are people who seek social proof. (My dad calls them dumbsh*ts)

There are also people who don't give a damn what you, I or anyone else thinks, they will make up their own minds thankyouverymuch. (Hi Dad!)

And those are just the two poles of one axis in a multi-axis complex of conscious and unconscious factors. People are not one dimensional.

Your market also matters. Some markets are ultra skeptical and social proof matters a lot. Others not so much.

I never said that copy didn't sell. I don't know how many ebooks and other things I've sold online that sold with no testimonials or social proof. But "based on my experience", social proof is more persuasive. Well-written copy in a nice format simply gets my attention. But oftentimes the format sells me more than the words.

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max5ty

12 years ago

No matter what anyone says...social proof sells more products than any copy will ever sell...period.

The only debate should be on what type of social proof works the best.

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affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty

No matter what anyone says...social proof sells more products than any copy will ever sell...period.

The only debate should be on what type of social proof works the best.

Thank you! Something tells me that most people on this forum are denying this because they know it's the SECRET to selling information products online.

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John_S

12 years ago

most people on this forum are denying this

I would disagree on this point.

because they know it's the SECRET to selling information products online.

Uh. No. That is not the reason why.

Ask MLMers or Affiliates making the reported $75 per month, average, the reason why. But you are right, it is the secret. So secret many of the advocates for social proof are keeping it hidden.

A better concept for discussion would be why -- after decades of being "revealed" -- so many are keeping it so secret, even from their own would-be prospective customers.

Maybe it is like a "double secret" or comic book "super secret." Or a triple dog dare kind of thing.

Or maybe a zen koan. "If a secret is shouted from the rooftops, and written about in detail by gurus for decades (let us not forget right here and now), how-in-the-livin'-heck does it stay unheard and unused by so many?!?!?"

I fail to see the social proof in that phenomenon. Or perhaps, like the Emperor's New Clothes, its invisibility is, itself, the social proof.

Whoa. Dude. Heavy.

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affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by John_S

I would disagree on this point.

Uh. No. That is not the reason why.

Ask MLMers or Affiliates making the reported $75 per month, average, the reason why.

When you're an affiliate you're promoting something that ISN'T YOURS. I've never had a hard time selling things through landing pages. People believe you more when you're "recommending" something.
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max5ty

12 years ago

Social proof isn't a secret...

Learning how to understand and use it is what separates the so so from the good.

Social proof is what drives our everyday lives...it's what most of our decisions are based on.

Example:

A beer commercial shows an average guy in a bar drinking a certain brand of beer...surrounded by pretty women...social proof.

A restaurant has a commercial showing a family of 4 eating and looking happy...social proof.

A client I've done a lot of work for is a national chain clothing store.

A simple 4 word slogan with a hot girl in jeans with her boyfriend...social proof.

Big name guru's that sell stuff online use social proof...they're selling something...you know they're famous with a big reputation...social proof.

Social proof is what moves the marketing world -- the world as a whole for that matter.

No question, social proof is the most important element in making money.

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affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty

Social proof isn't a secret...

It isn't? Then maybe you can tell me how to get some "social proof" for the ebook in my signature. The f**cking thing doesn't want to sell.
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- max5ty 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter
  
  It isn't? Then maybe you can tell me how to get some "social proof" for the ebook in my signature. The f**cking thing doesn't want to sell.
  
  I don't normally critique sales pieces...but here's my best elevator critique...
  
  The name, "Lazy Affiliates", is a turn-off.
  
  Most looking to be an affiliate aren't lazy.
  
  You say that you stole the ideas?
  
  In other words, you didn't get them from trial and error?
  
  Your headline isn't appealing.
  
  Your copy isn't good.
  
  Your site looks spammy.
  
  Your signature isn't appealing...it's not something that makes me want to click on it.
  
  I can't see any quick social proof.
  
  Not trying to be mean...just offering my opinion.
  
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- Elion Makkink 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter
  
  It isn't? Then maybe you can tell me how to get some "social proof" for the ebook in my signature. The f**cking thing doesn't want to sell.
  
  Do you deliver value to your customers? Do your methods actually work, or do you claim that they work?
  
  Second, you're selling something on a separate website. Have you tried selling lazy affiliates as a WSO? Potential buyers (segmented warriors in this case) would be a lot more confident to buy your product when you put it up as a WSO. Just an idea.
  
  Third, why do you offer so many bonuses? I've seen your copy before and I really don't need any of these bonuses. They actually make your offer and the bonuses itself seem less valuable. I don't like the layout of your site either. Sorry, just being honest.
  
  Last, it's extremely hard to sell a product with a video on your site as well. I've learned from email marketers that squeeze pages without video converted 10 times better than those with a video.
  
  Good luck.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Cheers,
  Elion Makkink
  
  Become an SEO Hustler too at seohustlers.com
  
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John_S

12 years ago

[quote] The f**cking thing doesn't want to sell. [quote]

...? ...with the whole ...and me wasting my ...and the sides ...with the words and 'splainin'

Serves me right.

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RadiniCopywriting

12 years ago

I agree with the people saying that good copy includes social proof.

In fact, when we strip it down, copy is social proof. You talk about reviews sites etc. and how much they convince people. Copy is just one more opinion.

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CopyWriteHer

12 years ago

I get that good sales copy can be a type of social proof in and of itself, but it doesn't have to be. Successful sales copy makes the reader feel as though you wrote that to them. Not to a target market, but to them. You study them, you study the product, and you create a bridge between them. If the reader is saying to himself, "Yes! I've done that." or "This person has been where I am"... or so on, the copy is working. When the words resonate with the person reading them, they are going to purchase, whether their friends have "liked" you on Facebook or not.

With the rise of internet marketing, we sometimes make it more complicated that it should be. Create the connection and if your product or service is of quality, the sale will happen. Social proof will take care of itself if you make the reader feel connected and if your product is good; word of mouth is nothing new. A powerful message that directly addresses your reader's pain... you want that.

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Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago

Most of the time I’ll include the right amount of “Social Proof”

Without hammering on and on boring the hell out of the poor reader.

But there is a flip side.

Contrarian themes.

Not everybody wants to be like everybody else.

Or believes they can be like everyone else.

This can work extremely well in saturated markets when everyone bangs on about doing this.

The audience has heard the big promises dozens of times and they don't care anymore.

You can pull a massive response by suggesting that it is so much better doing that.

Steve

P.S. I tested this on a "get rich quick" promo.

Everyone else promised you'll make $29,779.00 a month or whatever the massive figure was.

With acres of "Social Proof" and raves galore on review sites (yea yea..)

I flipped it and did a "get rich slow"

"You won't make $29,779.00 a month but you will make an extra $179.00 a week"

It bumped the response by over 40%.
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Would You Say That Social Proof Outsells Sales Copy?

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