"Not Professional Enough; OMG You've Gotta Be Kidding"

73 replies
What in the heck does it take? As you can tell, i'm not in the best of moods at the moment.

I've been working on my sales copy for MONTHS now.....I make the changes ppl tell me to make, show it again, and it still needs work. I continue to do what I'm told, still not there yet.

It seems like the only thing I haven't produced is a salespage that looks just like the ones that are full of hype, lies, and full of crap.

I guess that's the type of "professionalism" that everyone is looking for. All the salespages out there that i've read are basicly the same. They all look the same, have the same graphics, you know the screen shots of the clickbank accts, the pics of the big mansions, the fancy new cars, boats, etc. They all have the same BIG BOX OUTLINED IN THE RED DOTTED LINES with the big yellow "ADD TO CART" button stairing you in the face.

Yet mine is "NOT PROFESSIONAL" enough not unique enough to get someone to do a JV with me. That doesn't make since to me.

I don't have any of the stuff mentioned above in my SP. NO lies, hype and in my opinion no crap.

I dont know what else to do. I'm not going to create a SP that looks like all the others out there that is full of lies. My SP tells the truth, offers the truth and in no way "gilts" you into clicking the "Buy Now" button.

If people out there dont want someone that is honest and cares about what the sell, I guess I dont need to be in this business.

I've just about had it with all this crap. Yes, this is my first product, but that doesn't mean that it cant help someone else.

I dont' want to be the next internet millionaire. I dont even want to be a famous IM Guru. I do want however to be able to make about 3000 a month selling a product that actually helps people fulfill their dreams and do it without having to go thru all the crap I had to go thru.

What do I do now? Any suggestions?
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Professionalism is determined by results, or more technically its "when people are able to make a fulltime living off a thing...". Its not about being perfect, its about understanding your market.

    Your market wants to be "moved"... (Not moved to think of all the reasons they are failing...)
    You can give all the free info in the world, and if its boring and doesnt move anyone, you arent a professional.

    Try to think of the "hype" copy writers as mentors who understand their market, and try to learn what it is that makes that so.

    You are telling me "attention Newby marketers", but you arent giving me a WIIFM at the top

    You are asking me "What is financial security to you"?

    But you arent telling me how you are going to make me financially secure.

    You are asking me 'Why should I believe she can help me over come my fear"?

    But you arent telling me how Im going to make money.

    You are telling me "This is whats holding you back".

    But you arent hitting me with benefits...

    Yeah, you need to direct your sales copy at the readers desire for benefit.

    In short; You need to take your most mind blowing benefit, and say it in the most mind blowing way it can be said.

    Thats the truth. If it sounds like hype...Well is it mind blowing or not what you are going to show me?

    If you dont think it is mind blowing enough top sell the crap out of me on it...Then Im picking that up, so the message was successfully delivered.

    You need some "hype", but what that really means is thast you need to direct the benefits straght at the user.

    Saying "What does financial security mean to you"? and then listing a bunch of benefits... isnt really directing the benefits at the user...

    That heading should be more like "This is the the kind of lifestyle this business opportunity can bring you"... Then list the benefits. Thats directly talking to the reader about the benefit they will receive.

    A mistake many make is focusing on features instead of benefits.

    They only come to your page for one reason "WIIFM".

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      OK, never had it put to me like that before....but I see what your saying..Going to take another shot at it.

      Thanks John

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Professionalism is determined by results, or more technically its "when people are able to make a fulltime living off a thing...". Its not about being perfect, its about understanding your market.

      Your market wants to be "moved"... (Not moved to think of all the reasons they are failing...)
      You can give all the free info in the world, and if its boring and doesnt move anyone, you arent a professional.

      Try to think of the "hype" copy writers as mentors who understand their market, and try to learn what it is that makes that so.

      You are telling me "attention Newby marketers", but you arent giving me a WIIFM at the top

      You are asking me "What is financial security to you"?

      But you arent telling me how you are going to make me financially secure.

      You are asking me 'Why should I believe she can help me over come my fear"?

      But you arent telling me how Im going to make money.

      You are telling me "This is whats holding you back".

      But you arent hitting me with benefits...

      Yeah, you need to direct your sales copy at the readers desire for benefit.

      In short; You need to take your most mind blowing benefit, and say it in the most mind blowing way it can be said.

      Thats the truth. If it sounds like hype...Well is it mind blowing or not what you are going to show me?

      If you dont think it is mind blowing enough top sell the crap out of me on it...Then Im picking that up, so the message was successfully delivered.

      You need some "hype", but what that really means is thast you need to direct the benefits straght at the user.

      Saying "What does financial security mean to you"? and then listing a bunch of benefits... isnt really directing the benefits at the user...

      That heading should be more like "This is the the kind of lifestyle this business opportunity can bring you"... Then list the benefits. Thats directly talking to the reader about the benefit they will receive.

      A mistake many make is focusing on features instead of benefits.

      They only come to your page for one reason "WIIFM".

      Hope this helps.
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I damn sure don't want to piss you anymore than you already are, but is the sales page in question the one in your signature?

    If so, I could maybe throw some ideas your way.

    All the Best,

    Art
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    Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Boduch
      I feel your pain, texasmom64.

      Best to get away from the computer for a few hours -- or days. Go for a long walk and enjoy nature if your can. Shift your focus away from all things business and just let it go as best you can.

      Then when you're ready, come back with a fresh perspective. Don't take it so hard. Shake it off and proceed once again. If you quit now... all your previous work is wasted. But if you learn and adapt, eventually you'll make progress.

      If you want to JV with owners of big lists, you've got to give them exactly what they want. And chances are, they know a thing or two about what gets their subscribers to BUY. Even when you give them what they say they want, some may walk away... some may criticize... and some will ignore you completely. That's just the way it goes and you have no control over their responses. But you can control what you do next.

      Please don't quit. Step into the box and take another swing. But before you do, learn all you can about the psychology of selling. Selling is getting others to walk a road of agreement with you -- it's not about trickery and deception.

      Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author Dwayne Morrison
        Originally Posted by Robert Boduch View Post

        I feel your pain, texasmom64.

        Best to get away from the computer for a few hours -- or days. Go for a long walk and enjoy nature if your can. Shift your focus away from all things business and just let it go as best you can.

        Then when you're ready, come back with a fresh perspective. Don't take it so hard. Shake it off and proceed once again. If you quit now... all your previous work is wasted. But if you learn and adapt, eventually you'll make progress.

        If you want to JV with owners of big lists, you've got to give them exactly what they want. And chances are, they know a thing or two about what gets their subscribers to BUY. Even when you give them what they say they want, some may walk away... some may criticize... and some will ignore you completely. That's just the way it goes and you have no control over their responses. But you can control what you do next.

        Please don't quit. Step into the box and take another swing. But before you do, learn all you can about the psychology of selling. Selling is getting others to walk a road of agreement with you -- it's not about trickery and deception.

        Robert
        You know Robert, a friend of mine told me to do exactly the same when I was stressed out about getting online affiliate project ramped up; "Just take a break and chill out because if you don't your project won't go anywhere." I took the advice. I still paid good attention to my project but I wasnt dwelling on it. Eventually I acquired funding and now I'm finally ramping it up. I'm eventually going to turn it into an LLC and then expand from there - but it's because I took the time to myself and finally relaxed why it was all able to happen...I'm glad I took the advice...
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    Well, I can't say much about all of that, but I can offer you some advice.

    If the sales page you are talking about is the one in your sig, you are having some issues with some of the characters. I'm using Firefox and it is kind of hard to read because I get gibberish special characters and some of the text overlaps.

    Also, you don't have to lie to be professional. What they are probably looking for is certain triggers that get people to buy. You may not want to guilt people into buying, but you do want to convince them.

    Don't give up just because you are getting turned down. Network more. Get to know people. Do things for others and THEN ask for a JV and see how things go.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      I'm using Firefox and it is kind of hard to read because I get gibberish special characters and some of the text overlaps.
      Looks fine in Chrome. Looks fine in IE.

      I did find this bit:

      "This system is different because I didn't â€Å"just throw it togetherâ€Â."

      This is a misconverted set of "smart quotes" from a word processor. You probably want to fix that.

      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      Well, I can't say much about all of that, but I can offer you some advice.

      If the sales page you are talking about is the one in your sig, you are having some issues with some of the characters. I'm using Firefox and it is kind of hard to read because I get gibberish special characters and some of the text overlaps.

      Also, you don't have to lie to be professional. What they are probably looking for is certain triggers that get people to buy. You may not want to guilt people into buying, but you do want to convince them.

      Don't give up just because you are getting turned down. Network more. Get to know people. Do things for others and THEN ask for a JV and see how things go.
      Exactly what Amanda said^^^^

      The first thing that I noticed was headline... While the term; "newbie" could be used loosely, I would avoid it.

      The Headline "Extreme Income System" has a decent 'ring' to it, and might get me to read the next line...

      But you have to package it as such. If you are trying too hard to sell it, as opposed to 'highlighting' the 'benefits' your system offers... it'll kill off most affiliates/JV's from wanting to promote it.

      I would lose the entire next paragraph, and replace it with...

      Are You Tired of Losing Money Online?
      STOP Falling Victim to the Guru Hype!

      You Don't Need To Be An Expert to...

      Start Making Money Online !!!


      While I am definitely not an expert copy-writer, I often struggle more trying to fix my own sales letters, than being able to see where I could strengthen another's. I think your on the right track wanting to be honest.

      However, for the months that I have studied the art of writing compelling content, I have learned the best product in the world will not sell itself. You need to let visitors know "What" the product will do for them?

      Not necessarily from the 'preacher's podium' but from a more neutral, I have been in your shoes manner. Understandably, you have worked hard, so other's will not have to. But, if you even allow them to see or sense any doubt in your sales letter, you lose credibility, buyer's trust, and possibly a sale.

      If you read a sales page for a product that you have bought...

      -Did it engage you?

      -Did it compel you to "want" or "feel" you needed it?

      -Did it ultimately leave you feeling the product was solid?

      -Did it give you a sense the person conveying the message was an expert on the subject?

      Copywriting is the king of all writing. One in which requires tons of practice, and full understanding of psychology, trigger points, etc...

      If your sales copy reveals weakness, it reflects onto your product. And onto the overall conversion rates, and perhaps more importantly... your ability to gather partners, affiliates, or JV's.

      Secondly, if you cannot engage my interest within the first few seconds... I'm gone for good. The visual aspects play a huge role as well. There's no product header. No real images. As Amanda pointed out, there's something in the script throwing weird characters into the closing right on top of the "Buy Now" button, etc..

      I mean no offense, just seeing you've been here for 4 years or so, don't hesitate to ask for guidance, I'm sure plenty will step-up, help you out, and could lead to future partners?

      Just my .02.

      -Art



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      Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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      • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
        Thanks Art,

        but let me ask this.....I want to market to the "newbies" aseveryone calls them .....you said to avoid it. Say that's the niche that you wanted to target, what would you use instead?

        Thanks again for all the advise.

        texasmom




        Originally Posted by art72 View Post

        Exactly what Amanda said^^^^

        The first thing that I noticed was headline... While the term; "newbie" could be used loosely, I would avoid it.

        The Headline "Extreme Income System" has a decent 'ring' to it, and might get me to read the next line...

        But you have to package it as such. If you are trying too hard to sell it, as opposed to 'highlighting' the 'benefits' your system offers... it'll kill off most affiliates/JV's from wanting to promote it.

        I would lose the entire next paragraph, and replace it with...

        Are You Tired of Losing Money Online?
        STOP Falling Victim to the Guru Hype!


        You Don't Need To Be An Expert to...

        Start Making Money Online !!!



        While I am definitely not an expert copy-writer, I often struggle more trying to fix my own sales letters, than being able to see where I could strengthen another's. I think your on the right track wanting to be honest.



        However, for the months that I have studied the art of writing compelling content, I have learned the best product in the world will not sell itself. You need to let visitors know "What" the product will do for them?



        Not necessarily from the 'preacher's podium' but from a more neutral, I have been in your shoes manner. Understandably, you have worked hard, so other's will not have to. But, if you even allow them to see or sense any doubt in your sales letter, you lose credibility, buyer's trust, and possibly a sale.



        If you read a sales page for a product that you have bought...



        -Did it engage you?



        -Did it compel you to "want" or "feel" you needed it?



        -Did it ultimately leave you feeling the product was solid?



        -Did it give you a sense the person conveying the message was an expert on the subject?



        Copywriting is the king of all writing. One in which requires tons of practice, and full understanding of psychology, trigger points, etc...



        If your sales copy reveals weakness, it reflects onto your product. And onto the overall conversion rates, and perhaps more importantly... your ability to gather partners, affiliates, or JV's.



        Secondly, if you cannot engage my interest within the first few seconds... I'm gone for good. The visual aspects play a huge role as well. There's no product header. No real images. As Amanda pointed out, there's something in the script throwing weird characters into the closing right on top of the "Buy Now" button, etc..



        I mean no offense, just seeing you've been here for 4 years or so, don't hesitate to ask for guidance, I'm sure plenty will step-up, help you out, and could lead to future partners?



        Just my .02.



        -Art




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        • Profile picture of the author art72
          Originally Posted by texasmom64 View Post

          Thanks Art,

          but let me ask this.....I want to market to the "newbies" as everyone calls them .....you said to avoid it. Say that's the niche that you wanted to target, what would you use instead?

          Thanks again for all the advise.

          texasmom
          Seeing the fantastic job 'other' contributor's have made to this thread, I almost feel 'privileged' to be in the company of such talented minds... so first off; Thank-You texasmon64 for that alone!


          As far as the sales copy goes... I certainly have nothing to my credit to compare to The Copy Nazi.

          Mr. Subtle's imagery added some serious value! -And in working within the two the term newbie has become an 'afterthought'. It works in the right light, I guess would be my refined answer, though I don't see it being used in the 'presentation' above. (*aside from the domain)

          My initial thought... was it referenced a 'limited' audience, some who may know the term, others may be offended subconsciously or simple by not knowing exactly how to interpret it.

          As the copy above reflects you can often reach a larger audience without revealing too much. A little teaser, some sex appeal, and a powerful statement... Wah Lah - there's bound to be some action on that buy button.

          Dogb*lls... too funny!

          Brings a whole new measure to being bold and profound.

          Thanks you guys rock!
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author Prashant_W
            lavonda, take the copy nazi's advice. every bit of it.

            and while you're at it, head over to his site as well. google copy nazi. you'll learn a ****load, that's for sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
        Art,


        If you read a sales page for a product that you have bought...





        -Did it engage you?





        -Did it compel you to "want" or "feel" you needed it?





        -Did it ultimately leave you feeling the product was solid?





        -Did it give you a sense the person conveying the message was an expert on the subject?





        Copywriting is the king of all writing. One in which requires tons of practice, and full understanding of psychology, trigger points, etc...



        funny that you said this cause this is what I was talking about in my post. I can think back on most of the sp that I've read, and YES, some of them made me feel like me and this person were in each others heads.

        For example, S.I. wrote a sp that actually had me crying. Yes crying...why cause I felt that finally someone knew what I was going thru...he knew how hard i was working but still nothing was happening that he had taken the exact same steps, been screwed by the same people and felt the same feelings......yet I was no closer to making money than I was when I first started.

        So I bought the product because I felt that I coull trust him and his product was suppose to be the answer to all my prayers.

        BUT when I got it, I was so ticked off because after sweeting the pot with all the "you wont needs", when I got the software, I would have had to use at least 1 of his "you wont needs", if I really wanted to push the software into overdrive and make money with it.

        Another thing that ticks me off is when they tell you what do, assuming that you know all there is to know about the internet. They never tell you HOW to do it.

        That's where my product is different. I not only tell you what to do, I show you step by step HOW to do it.

        I thought back and remembered at least 6 SP's that I had read in a months time, all from different marketers, that had the same sales page except for the product. Sure it told me that it was working, but what I didn't like was that it wasn't Unique. So I tried to make mine unique.

        I know what I want and I feel very strongly about helping others so they dont have to go thru what i went thru. And that market is "beginner marketing" or "newbie marketing".

        OK, soap box closed ....just trying to let you know a little better what I'm all about and where I'm coming from..

        God Bless and Thanks again
        texasmom
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to take everyones advise into account. I just want it to be done right but not look like all the other sp out there.

      I think that the reason I'm so upset is maybe I'm taking too much in consideration...

      The first draft I had, kinda took people by the heart strings and pulled them along with me down the exact same path as they were going more than likely. Struggling, dealing with the lies, bs, and all that.

      I was told that it sounded "spammy". I've gone from "spammy" to "unprofessional" and everything in between.

      I may go back to that draft and post it again and see what everyone says this time.

      Thanks again for the advise.


      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      Well, I can't say much about all of that, but I can offer you some advice.

      If the sales page you are talking about is the one in your sig, you are having some issues with some of the characters. I'm using Firefox and it is kind of hard to read because I get gibberish special characters and some of the text overlaps.

      Also, you don't have to lie to be professional. What they are probably looking for is certain triggers that get people to buy. You may not want to guilt people into buying, but you do want to convince them.

      Don't give up just because you are getting turned down. Network more. Get to know people. Do things for others and THEN ask for a JV and see how things go.
      Signature

      Are You Desperately Trying To Earn An Income Online, But No Matter How Hard You Try, It Just Ain't Happening?

      Extreme Newbie Income Can Help!

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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Sometimes you can be a little too close to your product and this makes writing the sales copy exceptionally hard work because you've invested so much emotionally into your project.

        Mal (TheCopyNazi) gave you a brilliant opener up above, contact him to see if you can model your sales copy on his approach - see what he says. Can't do any harm contacting him.

        And whatever you decide to do, don't push your creative juices too much, if you do... they have a habit of backfiring on you. Know when to walk away and take a break - a well earned rest, and then come back to this with a new fresh perspective Lavonda.

        Best of luck!


        Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Well it really does not matter much what we here think.what matters is what your traffic thinks and the way to find out is by doing three T's:

    1-You Test

    2-You Track

    3-You Tweak.
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    • Profile picture of the author leoalvin
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Well it really does not matter much what we here think.what matters is what your traffic thinks and the way to find out is by doing three T's:

      1-You Test

      2-You Track

      3-You Tweak.
      I agree! I follow these steps myself...
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    • Profile picture of the author Perseus Shearer
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Well it really does not matter much what we here think.what matters is what your traffic thinks and the way to find out is by doing three T's:

      1-You Test

      2-You Track

      3-You Tweak.
      Agreed. Changing up your SP will help with your SEO anyway, so you want to be doing it. Keep it up. You'll get results if you keep plugging away. And I like your standards.
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      house painting Learn SEO

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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by texasmom64 View Post

    Yet mine is "NOT PROFESSIONAL" enough not unique enough to get someone to do a JV with me.
    What about getting someone else to do a JV with you?

    Look, some people don't fit. If the person you want to JV with wants a hypey sales page, and you don't want to make one, walk away and do a JV with someone else. Or just go it alone.

    You don't have to JV with that person. Or even with those people, if you've tried several of them. But you probably want better answers than
    "not professional" when you ask why they won't JV with you.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Dwayne Morrison
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      What about getting someone else to do a JV with you?

      Look, some people don't fit. If the person you want to JV with wants a hypey sales page, and you don't want to make one, walk away and do a JV with someone else. Or just go it alone.

      You don't have to JV with that person. Or even with those people, if you've tried several of them. But you probably want better answers than
      "not professional" when you ask why they won't JV with you.
      Estoy de acuerdo con Caliban. You really don't need to JV with those specific people. JV'ing with someone who wants you to create a sales page full of BS hype isnt going to do anything good for you. Don't stress about the small stuff. Everything takes time - even I had to learn that and am still learning that. You'll find a JV to work with you eventually. I know that's probably not the answer you wanted to hear, but it's the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    People dont get excited thinking about whats holding them back, or why they should believe a person they dont know can help them overcome their fear...

    They Want benefits, and they want MIND BLOWING benefits.

    If you cant blow their mind, they they will go somewhere else and get their mind blown.

    Gotta to be able to give a good Mind Job, and make it exciting. lol

    Then really deliver mind blowing value.

    If you are saying its "so, so", then I believe you.

    If you want me to believe its mind blowing, then get excited and tell me about it!

    SELL ME!!!!

    Yes, believe it or not "I want to be excited and sold"!!

    Best Advice:
    Put your most mind blowing nugget at the top of your page, and keep doing it , all the way down.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    The key is whether you are making any sales.

    In short, make sure you are getting targeted traffic.

    If you are, then make sure your copy is converting...forget about the label "professional" etc...the only thing that matters is whether your sales page converts.

    If you sales page is not converting, test the major components of your sales page...your offer, your headline, your product etc.

    Best,

    Thomas O'Malley
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  • Profile picture of the author JPaston
    Hi texasmom

    I feel for you, I really do. Sometimes it seems to me that we are in some kind of Internet Marketing warp where everybody hypes up everything because 'that's how you sell things'.

    It doesn't have to be that way. Carefully crafted copywriting can sell things. It just depends on the expectations of your salesletter readers.

    In the money-making niche we've become so used to the hype that we automatically expect it. We equate 'good' copywriting with over-the-top verbiage and hyperbole. It's almost like nobody believes that 'honest' copywriting would sell a money-making product.

    I think it's time for a change. In fact I think it is already happening. The 'sideways sales letter', as Jeff Walker puts it, is changing the way of marketing in the money-making niche. These video pre-sells, which give away information as a way of showing what you're going to get if you buy, are much more straightforward because there's nowhere to hide. Both Jeff Walker and Ryan Deiss have put these into action successfully recently. I hope we see more of this.

    Writing 'honest' copy is actually much, much more difficult than writing hype. You have to find the real sales triggers that will cause readers to hit your sales button. Get it wrong and you'll have people leaving your sales letter before getting past the first paragraph.

    Evaluate what people are looking for when they come to your site. What is it that you can tell them that will make them keep on reading? How can you lead them to take interest in your product? What will encourage them to take out their wallets just to find out more?

    That's probably the real reason that people use hype - they can copy and paste sales-trigger phrases much more easily than writing something meaningful!

    If you need some help with all this, PM me.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by JPaston View Post

      Hi texasmom
      Sometimes it seems to me that we are in some kind of Internet Marketing warp where everybody hypes up everything because 'that's how you sell things'.
      This is no offense, but your post inspired me.

      Personally: Sometimes I feel like Im in some kind of marketing warp where people have "forgotten" that, yes, thats how you sell things.

      Did the principle that people buy on emotions suddenly become obsolete?
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        What happens when the emotion a sales letter elicits is disgust?

        Just wondering.

        That means you came across an ***hole prospect thats probably looking for a reason to be disgusted anyway. "Not my market". 90% of the people dont respond anyway, and that person just fell into the 90%.

        BTW, your answer did not get an opt in like Art's. "Do it like you want", isnt educating. "Ignore the experts"?

        Good advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Art

    You my friend just got an opt in by merit of the valuable post you delivered to us here, which made me want to know more about you.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Art

      You my friend just got an opt in by merit of the valuable post you delivered to us here, which made me want to know more about you.
      -The irony in that is, I have yet to release the "Canonical Forces" that drive my true ambitions. Most of the sites I have up are 'practice' for 'future' plans, so I'm not 100% sure you'll gain much insight from my signatures.

      But I sincerely appreciate the compliment, as I have been inspired by several of your posts as well.

      -Art
      Signature
      Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by art72 View Post

        -The irony in that is, I have yet to release the "Canonical Forces" that drive my true ambitions. Most of the sites I have up are 'practice' for 'future' plans, so I'm not 100% sure you'll gain much insight from my signatures.

        But I sincerely appreciate the compliment, as I have been inspired by several of your posts as well.

        -Art
        I truly enjoyed reading your advice. Thanks. Will be checking out your email.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    Seems like a bit of an offensive headline calling your visitors "illiterate" (etc.)
    Signature
    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    "Not Professional Enough; OMG You've Gotta Be Kidding"

    When they said your page wasn't "professional," were they talking about the copy or the design of the page?

    Because the design could be improved.

    For example...

    1) Right now you have 3 styles of bullets. And the green bullets are ugly (look at the jagged edges). I would suggest that you pick ONE style and use it consistently. (And make sure it has a transparent background if you're going to use it over anything but a white background.)

    2) Your page uses design elements (type and graphics) that are blue, yellow, red, and green. And those colors clash. The easy solution is to pick TWO colors (in addition to black and white, of course) and stick with that color scheme. In your case, perhaps, blue and yellow.

    3) As Caliban pointed out, there are some type/character issues to be fixed.

    4) I would probably get rid of the distracting background and use something simple.

    5) A clean, simple (and inexpensive) graphic header would look much better than the plain HTML text you have now. (In fact, it would help A LOT.)

    6) A graphic headline would also help. Keep it simple and clean -- not gaudy.

    7) You might want to use 1 or 2 small graphics within the body text for the purpose of "eye relief." The graphics should be related in some way. Make them right-aligned.

    Remember: To be "professional looking" your page doesn't have to be "fancy" -- clean, simple design is usually best.

    You're really not very far away from having a good looking page; you just need to make a few relatively minor changes.

    I hope that helps.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    There are some pretty reputable members offering some solid advice here, so I'd definitely take it into consideration.

    But one thing that did seem a bit strange as someone pointed out, is addressing the visitors as 'illiterate'

    Thats just bad for business... LOL but that has been covered already. Moving on.

    If the sales page isn't professional enough for them, tell them you're more than welcome to see some of their work. Tell them to design their own sales page and see what they have in mind if they feel they are up to the challenge.

    If someone has something they think should be improved, they should say so. Provide some thoughts of what THEY feel needs to be done in order to improve the product, which would in the end, increase their earnings if they decide to work with you.

    Once (IF) you come to an agreement, you can negotiate the increase of their earnings. After all, they earned it. Obviously if they put in more work, they should get more revenue.

    If they aren't willing to do that, they probably shouldnt be a part of your team in the first place. There is more to JV's than people think.

    But this is just my opinion. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author CopyWriteHer
    I would get rid of the bit that refers to your potential buyer as illiterate. You incentivize your reader not to identify with your message by using that term.

    Using the wording “Good cause I’m about to show…” does strike me as unprofessional. “Cause” is fine in everyday conversation but if you are trying to communicate your product’s value in a professional manner, I would use “because” instead of “cause”, in this instance at least.

    The following gets repetitive:
    “Maybe it means something totally different to you and your family. Whatever your reason for wanting to be "Financially Secure" is, doesn't matter. As long as you have the desire to make your life better, nothing can stop you.

    The most important thing to remember is that you control your destiny. If you have the desire to start something and the determination to finish it, then there's nothing that can stop you from achieving your dreams...but there are a lot of people that think there is no such thing as being "Financially Secure".


    I don't believe that for one second. I was taught that nothing is impossible. That if you wanted it bad enough and was willing to do whatever it took to get it that you could DO ANYTHING!!”

    The idea is communicated and communicated some more, using the same wording.

    In this bit: “Most of you that read this page will pass it up, not because you cant afford it, but for a reason that most of us are afraid to admit. The "Fear of Failing"...

    You gave your reader an excuse to not purchase. Saying they would pass this up “not because they can’t afford it” isn’t necessary. It’s not the same as addressing their probable objections in your offer. What you did was draw their attention to not being able to afford it.

    While some folks use the "most people will pass this offer up" thing, I avoid writing to the masses. I write to one very specific person when creating sales copy. Your reader wants to feel as if you're addressing her, not a group of people. For that reason, I would avoid the "most of you" phrase.

    Also, you said:

    Do Not expect to buy a product, start using it and watch the money start flooding your bank account if you don't know anything about the Internet or Internet Marketing. Because it ain't gonna happen. There is far more to it than just throwing up a website

    I could be like all the other marketers and tell you by tomorrow you̢۪ll be making BIG Bucks, but it̢۪s simply not true. In fact, I can't stand it when I hear those kind of promises. I always tell my students, "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is".


    I strive to be different than all the other marketers. I want you to trust me and believe that I have your best interest at heart, so I'm gonna be as honest and upfront with you as I can. I also believe that "anything worth having, is worth working for"â€Â¦

    I might rework that like this:

    It doesn’t take long to grow weary of the get-rich-quick schemes offered by many “internet marketing gurus”. Every offer looks the same and makes the same empty promises. Maybe you’ve started to wonder if it’s just a pipe-dream...

    The reality is, you can make a very comfortable living from internet marketing but it takes time. The Extreme Newbie Income System allows you to reduce your time investment and avoid the mistakes that commonly derail internet marketers from the track to financial freedom.

    You won’t get hyped-up empty promises here but you will receive straight talk, a solid plan and a blueprint for success.

    So here’s what I did…. I took what seemed to be the basic intent behind your writing and I took “you” out of it. There were several “I” statements in there.

    I reworked those into statements about what value your system brings the person who buys it and in doing that, also touched on how it’s different than the other systems out there.

    Instead of putting a spotlight on how hard it will be, written with a somewhat pessimistic vibration, I reworked it to communicate that it won’t be easy but it is doable and “my system will hold your hand every step of the way”.

    It leaves your reader feeling that if they get your product, they are empowered to weather the journey to “making it” in IM. It presents the reality of the situation without weighing them down with a sense of “it’s so hard”, or more importantly, "it's too hard".

    This is turning into a super long post, so I will stop here, but I hope your heart is encouraged.

    It sounds like you could serve your audience well with something they want, so give yourself some space and have at it again.



    Best wishes for prosperity.
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      Originally Posted by CopyWriteHer View Post

      I would get rid of the bit that refers to your potential buyer as illiterate. You incentivize your reader not to identify with your message by using that term.

      Using the wording "Good cause I'm about to show..." does strike me as unprofessional. "Cause" is fine in everyday conversation but if you are trying to communicate your product's value in a professional manner, I would use "because" instead of "cause", in this instance at least.

      The following gets repetitive:
      "Maybe it means something totally different to you and your family. Whatever your reason for wanting to be "Financially Secure" is, doesn't matter. As long as you have the desire to make your life better, nothing can stop you.

      The most important thing to remember is that you control your destiny. If you have the desire to start something and the determination to finish it, then there's nothing that can stop you from achieving your dreams...but there are a lot of people that think there is no such thing as being "Financially Secure".


      I don't believe that for one second. I was taught that nothing is impossible. That if you wanted it bad enough and was willing to do whatever it took to get it that you could DO ANYTHING!!"

      The idea is communicated and communicated some more, using the same wording.

      In this bit: "Most of you that read this page will pass it up, not because you cant afford it, but for a reason that most of us are afraid to admit. The "Fear of Failing"...

      You gave your reader an excuse to not purchase. Saying they would pass this up "not because they can't afford it" isn't necessary. It's not the same as addressing their probable objections in your offer. What you did was draw their attention to not being able to afford it.

      While some folks use the "most people will pass this offer up" thing, I avoid writing to the masses. I write to one very specific person when creating sales copy. Your reader wants to feel as if you're addressing her, not a group of people. For that reason, I would avoid the "most of you" phrase.

      Also, you said:

      Do Not expect to buy a product, start using it and watch the money start flooding your bank account if you don't know anything about the Internet or Internet Marketing. Because it ain't gonna happen. There is far more to it than just throwing up a website

      I could be like all the other marketers and tell you by tomorrow you’ll be making BIG Bucks, but it’s simply not true. In fact, I can't stand it when I hear those kind of promises. I always tell my students, "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is".


      I strive to be different than all the other marketers. I want you to trust me and believe that I have your best interest at heart, so I'm gonna be as honest and upfront with you as I can. I also believe that "anything worth having, is worth working for"…

      I might rework that like this:

      It doesn't take long to grow weary of the get-rich-quick schemes offered by many "internet marketing gurus". Every offer looks the same and makes the same empty promises. Maybe you've started to wonder if it's just a pipe-dream...

      The reality is, you can make a very comfortable living from internet marketing but it takes time. The Extreme Newbie Income System allows you to reduce your time investment and avoid the mistakes that commonly derail internet marketers from the track to financial freedom.

      You won't get hyped-up empty promises here but you will receive straight talk, a solid plan and a blueprint for success.

      So here's what I did.... I took what seemed to be the basic intent behind your writing and I took "you" out of it. There were several "I" statements in there.

      I reworked those into statements about what value your system brings the person who buys it and in doing that, also touched on how it's different than the other systems out there.

      Instead of putting a spotlight on how hard it will be, written with a somewhat pessimistic vibration, I reworked it to communicate that it won't be easy but it is doable and "my system will hold your hand every step of the way".

      It leaves your reader feeling that if they get your product, they are empowered to weather the journey to "making it" in IM. It presents the reality of the situation without weighing them down with a sense of "it's so hard", or more importantly, "it's too hard".

      This is turning into a super long post, so I will stop here, but I hope your heart is encouraged.

      It sounds like you could serve your audience well with something they want, so give yourself some space and have at it again.

      Best wishes for prosperity.

      To clear up the "illiterate" thing. I was by NO means calling ppl stupid like someone thought I was. What I was refering to was them being "computer illiterate" not knowing anything about the computer.

      Now talking about my "slang" language.....I'm from deep east texas...grew up with words like "aint gonna", "ya'll", "ya-huh".....guess i'll have to work on that huh.....

      I want to thank you for all you've done, for all EVERYONE that has posted in this thread has done.......your advise is well recieved and appreciated.
      Signature

      Are You Desperately Trying To Earn An Income Online, But No Matter How Hard You Try, It Just Ain't Happening?

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      • Profile picture of the author OliviaHoang
        I know you didn't mean to call people illiterate. However, part of being a copywriter is being able to really see things from your prospects' point of view as well as your own. So you write as a copywriter, then read it as a prospect. If you haven't taken into account your prospects' feelings when writing it, then you probably are not a professional grade copywriter just yet.

        May I recommend a copywriting course? Paul Hancox has an awesome one


        Originally Posted by texasmom64 View Post

        To clear up the "illiterate" thing. I was by NO means calling ppl stupid like someone thought I was. What I was refering to was them being "computer illiterate" not knowing anything about the computer.

        Now talking about my "slang" language.....I'm from deep east texas...grew up with words like "aint gonna", "ya'll", "ya-huh".....guess i'll have to work on that huh.....

        I want to thank you for all you've done, for all EVERYONE that has posted in this thread has done.......your advise is well recieved and appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Lavonda, if by "not professional enough" they mean your page design sucks, then they're right. It looks like something from the dawn of the internet - way off the pace. There's a reason designers use stuff like "the BIG BOX OUTLINED IN THE RED DOTTED LINES with the big yellow "ADD TO CART" button" - its called The Belcher Button and through thousands of tests has proven to be the one that converts the best. But I know what you mean - every man and his dog is using it. But you don't have to. Nor do you need the same graphics and same hype-speak as the rest of the pack. So here's a perfect opportunity to speak from the heart to your reader (and who is your target reader anyway? Work from home Mums?) . Starting with your headline. Try this -

    They told me my salespage SUCKED dogb*lls
    That it was "UNPROFESSIONAL"

    They said it needed Ferraris, mansions, private jets, bimbos in bikinis and thousands of dollars falling from the sky or it wasn't gonna fly
    .

    Guess what?

    Screw 'em

    I'm a 36 year old Texas Mom of three boys and a straight-shooter. I don't need all that BS on my page to prove that I make an honest $2500 each and every week working from my home office.

    My "Extreme Newbie System" works and I can prove it

    Oh yeah - they even said I can't say "
    Are You Ready To Stop Being A Internet Marketing Illiterate Who Knows Nothing About Running An Online Business and Making Money?"

    Why ever not? And are you ready?

    Here's exactly how I net an average of $10k each and every month - on my own. No boss. No smartass husband telling me what to do. Just Me, Myself, Incorporated.


    I'm no Einstein. Heck I didn't even go to college. Up until a year ago the only thing I knew about computers was how to turn the laptop on to read my email and check out facebook.

    So if a computer klutz like me can do it - believe me - so can you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Try this -
      They told me my salespage SUCKED dogb*lls...

      Great tip. So, anytime someone complains that your sales letter isn't "professional" enough, just find a way to incorporate the phrase "SUCKED dogb*lls" and you're golden.

      -John
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      I love it.....that sounds like a really good angle to go with......think i'm gonna try it and see what comes out......

      Thanks alot....

      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Lavonda, if by "not professional enough" they mean your page design sucks, then they're right. It looks like something from the dawn of the internet - way off the pace. There's a reason designers use stuff like "the BIG BOX OUTLINED IN THE RED DOTTED LINES with the big yellow "ADD TO CART" button" - its called The Belcher Button and through thousands of tests has proven to be the one that converts the best. But I know what you mean - every man and his dog is using it. But you don't have to. Nor do you need the same graphics and same hype-speak as the rest of the pack. So here's a perfect opportunity to speak from the heart to your reader (and who is your target reader anyway? Work from home Mums?) . Starting with your headline. Try this -

      They told me my salespage SUCKED dogb*lls
      That it was "UNPROFESSIONAL"

      They said it needed Ferraris, mansions, private jets, bimbos in bikinis and thousands of dollars falling from the sky or it wasn't gonna fly.


      Guess what?

      Screw 'em


      I'm a 36 year old Texas Mom of three boys and a straight-shooter. I don't need all that BS on my page to prove that I make an honest $2500 each and every week working from my home office.

      My "Extreme Newbie System" works and I can prove it


      Oh yeah - they even said I can't say "Are You Ready To Stop Being A Internet Marketing Illiterate Who Knows Nothing About Running An Online Business and Making Money?"

      Why ever not? And are you ready?

      Here's exactly how I net an average of $10k each and every month - on my own. No boss. No smartass husband telling me what to do. Just Me, Myself, Incorporated.


      I'm no Einstein. Heck I didn't even go to college. Up until a year ago the only thing I knew about computers was how to turn the laptop on to read my email and check out facebook.

      So if a computer klutz like me can do it - believe me - so can you.
      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      They told me my salespage SUCKED dogb*lls
      That it was "UNPROFESSIONAL"
      ...
      I'm no Einstein. Heck I didn't even go to college.
      Mal... thanks for chuckle. If I ever come across anyone wanting to sell BBQ chicken buttholes or Szechuan dogb*lls you will be the "go-to" guy on the project.

      For you Mal...

      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        @ CopyNazi and Mr. Subtle.

        Amazing.
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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      • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
        Mr. Subtle

        I love what you did to the page.....lol.....and if I were only marketing it to "MEN", well you can probably bet it would sell thousands, just on that one picture.

        Great job......
        Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author nm5419
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      So here's a perfect opportunity to speak from the heart to your reader (and who is your target reader anyway? Work from home Mums?) . Starting with your headline. Try this -
      Well I must say this is the oddest definition of "professional" I've ever seen! I completely appreciate the effort at the unconventional approach, however I'm surprised no one was offended by it. Sucking dog-balls?? On a page that appeals to moms? Cursing on the same page that mentions kids? A huge picture of an absolute bimbo?

      That's professional?? A sex act? Bestiality? Profanity? Blatant sexism?

      I yi yi!
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

        Well I must say this is the oddest definition of "professional" I've ever seen! I completely appreciate the effort at the unconventional approach, however I'm surprised no one was offended by it. Sucking dog-balls?? On a page that appeals to moms? Cursing on the same page that mentions kids? A huge picture of an absolute bimbo?

        That's professional?? A sex act? Bestiality? Profanity? Blatant sexism?

        I yi yi!
        You "completely appreciate the effort at the unconventional approach"? No you don't. But obviously the whole thing has gone right over the top of your head. I'm saying - grab the readers attention with a bold headline - obviously NOT that one. I'm saying - find your voice - obviously my "voice" isn't hers. What "sex act"?, what "bestiality"? Have you even read the rest of the comments?
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        • Profile picture of the author nm5419
          Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          You "completely appreciate the effort at the unconventional approach"? No you don't.
          Actually, I do. I'm a fan of almost anything that's out-of-the-box as long as it isn't over-the-top.

          Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          I'm saying - grab the readers attention with a bold headline - obviously NOT that one. I'm saying - find your voice - obviously my "voice" isn't hers.
          That's good to hear! It has prompted me to write a blog post warning women to never let men write their material, nonetheless.

          Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          What "sex act"?, what "bestiality"? Have you even read the rest of the comments?
          To be honest, I couldn't get past certain parts. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see you don't recommend that exact approach. While reading it, I kept shaking my head and thinking if I presented that to my virtual boss, I would have been terminated right on the spot. And my boss is a male!
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      • Profile picture of the author CopyWriteHer
        Note: As I refer to the "dog balls" approach in this post, I make that reference not literally (as copy nazi said he did not recommend that particular verbiage), rather I use that term to represent any such thought process.

        I actually started to write a similar post about the typical mom who wants to work from her house not responding favorably to that sort of thing, but...

        I learned early on that opposing the opinions of certain folks here seems a waste of energy so I left it alone.

        You are absolutely correct though, that this strategy would not sell to the most common personality of those women.

        Further, a good number of religious moms are joining the "work from the living room" bunch - they also school their children from their houses.

        It's a return to the mom-present family system for many women in this niche. That sort of ad will offend them and preclude them from doing business with the person using it.

        They want to be present to raise children and so forth. So...

        What matters to them? What do they strongly believe in and identify with?

        If you answer those questions you see how wrong the "dog balls" approach is for them. I dare say for most women, in fact.

        I guess it depends on whether or not that is the market that Texas Mom is speaking to.

        For another genre of fempreneurs, working for themselves is a means of embracing their power and passion in a way that makes them money and frees them from depending on an employer for a paycheck.

        These women counter the conventional patriarchal way of business, and view using an overtly masculine approach as a means of conformity. Their customer base responds favorably to their style. Again, no dog balls for this group.

        It all depends on the psychology of who you are speaking to. I think Texas Mom should create a profile of her potential consumer before she takes anyone's advice on her sales page.

        Detail it as if writing about one specific person.

        How old is she?
        What does she do for a living right now?
        What does she watch on tv?
        Does she have kids?
        If so, how many and how old?
        Is she partnered?
        What does she read?
        What does she do for entertainment?
        Where does she live?
        What is her ethnicity?
        What are her concerns?
        What does she want?
        What turns her off?

        Be as specific as possible and get very clear on who you are talking to. When you write the sales page, write it to her, not to "your market".

        If you do that, you will know what voice to use. That might include dog balls or perhaps not. Use the voice that sells to your audience.



        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

        Well I must say this is the oddest definition of "professional" I've ever seen! I completely appreciate the effort at the unconventional approach, however I'm surprised no one was offended by it. Sucking dog-balls?? On a page that appeals to moms? Cursing on the same page that mentions kids? A huge picture of an absolute bimbo?

        That's professional?? A sex act? Bestiality? Profanity? Blatant sexism?

        I yi yi!
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        • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
          Originally Posted by CopyWriteHer View Post

          For another genre of fempreneurs, working for themselves is a means of embracing their power and passion in a way that makes them money and frees them from depending on an employer for a paycheck.
          ... or their husbands or ex-husbands

          Di
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        • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
          Banned
          Originally Posted by CopyWriteHer View Post

          Note: As I refer to the "dog balls" approach in this post, I make that reference not literally (as copy nazi said he did not recommend that particular verbiage), rather I use that term to represent any such thought process.

          I actually started to write a similar post about the typical mom who wants to work from her house not responding favorably to that sort of thing, but...

          I learned early on that opposing the opinions of certain folks here seems a waste of energy so I left it alone.

          You are absolutely correct though, that this strategy would not sell to the most common personality of those women.

          Further, a good number of religious moms are joining the "work from the living room" bunch - they also school their children from their houses.

          It's a return to the mom-present family system for many women in this niche. That sort of ad will offend them and preclude them from doing business with the person using it.

          They want to be present to raise children and so forth. So...

          What matters to them? What do they strongly believe in and identify with?

          If you answer those questions you see how wrong the "dog balls" approach is for them. I dare say for most women, in fact.

          I guess it depends on whether or not that is the market that Texas Mom is speaking to.

          For another genre of fempreneurs, working for themselves is a means of embracing their power and passion in a way that makes them money and frees them from depending on an employer for a paycheck.

          These women counter the conventional patriarchal way of business, and view using an overtly masculine approach as a means of conformity. Their customer base responds favorably to their style. Again, no dog balls for this group.

          It all depends on the psychology of who you are speaking to. I think Texas Mom should create a profile of her potential consumer before she takes anyone's advice on her sales page.

          Detail it as if writing about one specific person.

          How old is she?
          What does she do for a living right now?
          What does she watch on tv?
          Does she have kids?
          If so, how many and how old?
          Is she partnered?
          What does she read?
          What does she do for entertainment?
          Where does she live?
          What is her ethnicity?
          What are her concerns?
          What does she want?
          What turns her off?

          Be as specific as possible and get very clear on who you are talking to. When you write the sales page, write it to her, not to "your market".

          If you do that, you will know what voice to use. That might include dog balls or perhaps not. Use the voice that sells to your audience.
          You're missing it. Lavonda has never said she's targeting "work at home Mums", "religious" mums", "Mums" or even women in general. Personally I think she should.

          What she has said, several times - and this is from her latest page (which is much better IMO) -
          That's why I created the Extreme Newbie Income System, and I built it with one goal in mind - to help people who wanted to start an online business but didn't know how to get started.
          And once again...obviously I wouldn't use that language if I were targeting women - not unless they were Rock 'n' Rollers or Biker sluts. But I would use a big bold headline that attracts the viewer to the offer. Ditto the graphic.

          And I find this crack, frankly, childish -
          I learned early on that opposing the opinions of certain folks here seems a waste of energy so I left it alone.
          You're like that certain somebody here who keeps saying "everybody's picking on me...think I'm gonna take my ball and go home".

          I earned my right to be blunt/forthright/straight to the point. If you're offended by it - that's your loss. I help a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere - and some of them actually go on to write good copy.

          You have a right to your opinion - just like everybody else. But if I think you're wrong or don't know what you're talking about - I'll call you on it - just as my mentors rejected plenty of my copy. In fact I could paper a living room with the copy I've had rejected - all sorts of copy - advertising copy, radio scripts, film scripts, magazine articles, newspaper copy, billboards, Direct Mail. Rejection is part of the writing game.

          "Out of life's school of war: that which doesn't destroy you - makes you stronger"

          (BTW don't let the "Copy Nazi" branding fool you. I'm actually a meek, mild-mannered reporter married to a Pediatrician and I have two small children 4 and 7)
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          • Profile picture of the author max5ty
            Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

            You're like that certain somebody here who keeps saying "everybody's picking on me...think I'm gonna take my ball and go home".
            LOL...since we're best friends, I assume you're talking about me again :rolleyes:

            If I was worried about being picked on I wouldn't still own a company with over 200 employees.

            Anyways...back to the post.

            Hype has a place in marketing -- but I think there are those who get carried away with it.

            "Cash Sucking Funnels"...lol..."Squeeze Pages That Squeeze Every Nickle From Your Prospect"...

            Other than someone selling hype on the internet...I don't know many, if any business owner that would jump at having someone write hype like that for them.

            If you look at some of the successful marketing campaigns that companies run...they'll sometimes use hype...but in a professional way.

            When you run a business, you're usually bombarded with every "new" internet frontiersman that's just discovered the latest fad at getting rich quick.

            "Websites that suck in cash like a Hoover"

            "Squeeze Pages That Leave Your Customer Begging For Mercy"

            "Emails That Have Customers Drooling"

            Most of this kind of hype is aimed at the "new work at home business owner" wanting to earn some extra income.

            The average business owner is looking for a professional.

            Look at the ads Ogilvy did that built his company into one of the largest ad agencies in the world.

            No mention of "Cash Sucking Funnels".

            I'm pretty sure he knew what the best type of client to seek out was.

            Read some of the great sales letters of all time...you won't find phrases like some of the hype you see nowadays.

            And yet some wonder why they're still struggling to "hit it big".

            Unfortunately next year they'll still be in the same position they're in now.

            The internet is full of hype writers...

            There's still plenty of room for offline copywriters.

            So to the point...I would suggest if you're going to use hype...use it so that it speaks to the average intelligent buyer.

            Just some thoughts.
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          • Profile picture of the author CopyWriteHer
            “You're missing it. Lavonda has never said she's targeting "work at home Mums", "religious" mums", "Mums" or even women in general. Personally I think she should.”

            I’m not "missing it". I was very clear that she said she was targeting people new to internet marketing. I commented on how a particular approach might be received if moms were her market.



            I stated, ”I guess it depends on whether or not that is the market that Texas Mom is speaking to.”, meaning that moms might not be her target market at all.



            You are welcome to find my remarks childish; it’s certainly your right. But like you, I will state my opinions when I deem it appropriate.



            I’ve not disputed that you have helped people here or elsewhere. In fact, I am sure you have.



            As for my disliking your manner of communicating being my loss, perhaps or perhaps not. While I do not boast a long career in mainstream copywriting as you might, I am a rather talented person in my own right. So I dare say it is perhaps a mutual loss; I believe we can all learn from each other. Either way, it’s all okay.



            I’m not certain why you gave me the bit about rejection. Because I expressed an opinion? Rejection is absolutely part of writing. I agree.



            As for my being like Max, well… what was that word you used to describe me…. Oh yes, childish. That was it. And I have no attitude that “everybody is picking on me”. I give as good as I get, whether it be respect or a hard time. I do not “take my toys and go home” but I also choose my battles.



            You and I are of no major concern to each other. I see no reason not to coexist peacefully. I expressed an opinion. It’s unfortunate if it bothered you.



            Oh and this…
            "Out of life's school of war: that which doesn't destroy you - makes you stronger"
            … you have no idea.



            Have a lovely rest of the day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    I wouldn't want to JV with you with a page like that.

    It looks amateurish.

    Pay for a professional designer, and pay for a decent copywriter.

    By the way... I don't see anything on that page that makes me go "you know what, this is new and interesting".

    Nor do I see any proof.

    So to summarize...

    You're selling people info on "how to make money"... yet you have no credibility whatsoever... nor do you have a decent product (judging by what you've written on the sales page at least).

    Why do you expect anyone to want to JV with you when you can't even get the basics right?

    -Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
      Mr. Lambe just gave you a hook... don't squander it.

      --- Ross
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      • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
        Don't worry, I wont.....I've already talked to him about it.

        Thanks Ross

        Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

        Mr. Lambe just gave you a hook... don't squander it.

        --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeKey
    I'm a total n00b and I read the page in your signature. And I could relate, because I feel most of the people who sell IM "secrets" are generally full of crap. But I do like learning from them about sales.

    However, as someone who is more than likely your target audience, I almost fell asleep. And since I haven't seen a single person mention it, I'll mention it.

    WHY NOT POST A VIDEO AT THE TOP OF YOUR COPY?

    Video converts higher than text alone. I started making all my clients put video on their websites a year ago, and most have seen huge improvements in conversions.

    Anyways, unlike many of the other people here, I'm a complete n00b and not an IM. So what do I know.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author zannix
      Hi there

      You might want to check this and repair it somehow:

      Signature
      All you can do is all you can do - Art Williams
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      • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
        zannix,

        thanks for letting me know, i'll check it out right now....did not look like that yesterday when i looked at the page...hummm

        thanks again
        texasmom

        Originally Posted by zannix View Post

        Hi there

        You might want to check this and repair it somehow:

        Signature

        Are You Desperately Trying To Earn An Income Online, But No Matter How Hard You Try, It Just Ain't Happening?

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  • Profile picture of the author davidlieder
    It seems to me that a lot of people use the word "professional" when they are really talking about having decent graphics and not the copy at all. I use Optimize Press, and I think there are a few out-of-the-box tools that can provide awesome graphics. For a copy writer this kind of tool can be great if you take a little time to learn it, because it definitely can add that million dollar graphics touch to your copy. In fact, if I were writing sales pages I would always put them in this kind of presentation format because it will solve a lot of those "cosmetic expectation" problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Here you go Lavonda -

    We've posted this page here before. YoureAPoorLoser.com - The Official Website

    I showed it to Kelly Felix - "The Rich Jerk" - some time back and he loved it.

    I'd be interested to see if it converts. My guess is not. Too hard to tell whether it's a complete joke or whether he actually has something to offer.

    You can either go back to your daily routine of downloading filthy porn or you can get a life and start making money online today
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    • Profile picture of the author JoniWBeadle
      I don't know...it's so completely out-of-the-box that it may just work. LOL
      It does have one distinct element of copy...curiosity. I'm wondering...

      I'd be anxious to see IF and how WELL it's converting...
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Here you go Lavonda -

      We've posted this page here before. YoureAPoorLoser.com - The Official Website

      I showed it to Kelly Felix - "The Rich Jerk" - some time back and he loved it.

      I'd be interested to see if it converts. My guess is not. Too hard to tell whether it's a complete joke or whether he actually has something to offer.

      Oh my gosh.....i loved that sales page.....I think there should be more like that. I didn't feel like I was being pressured into hitting the buy now button; I felt like he was telling the truth about knowing how to make money; and most of all it brought a smile to my face.

      I knew that I was going to buy it before I got 1/2 way down the page, then I saw the "sold out" message. All I could do was close it out and wish I had known about it earlier. Oh well, that's how it goes, huh....

      Thanks for all your advise by the way. This thread is full of so much information....WOW ....

      I'll keep you informed of my progress.....maybe we can work together someday...

      texasmom
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    Oh my god that is ingenious. The actual approach is brilliant the copy doesnt build enough desire if you ask me. But I read the whole thing, which is rare. So obviously either hes the smartest guy in the room or hes ****ing around.

    But I dono, its purely a curiosity sell really. Leaves no info about the product, completely blind. But the offer is so low priced im guessing someone has a very detailed marketing campaign, gotta be at least 7 upsells behind that.

    Its a lot like the Rich Jerks copy. I think this thing could work though just because the price is so low and what it says is so far in the opposite direction of everyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Good job Vic. There's anothery you can have a crack at here - http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...ml#post5071377
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Subtle,

    Nice. You can even make dogb*lls attractive.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author JoniWBeadle
    You know Texas Mom, I had the same problem. I've been writing now for about 5 years and I absolutely hate the hype. I cannot write that way. Even seeing an exclamation point makes me cringe unless I'm pissed off and trying to make a point...

    Eventually, you will find that "sweet spot" that you can express yourself the way you need too. If you try and write out of your comfort zone, it will show.

    It doesn't have to be "hypey." There are methods of indirect persuasion you can use and deliver it in a way that your potential audience will grow to trust you.

    For example: I love the way Fran Kern comes across...but I could never write that way because it's not my style. But, I trust him just because of the way he writes and have bought some of his stuff. But not everyone can come across like him. And if they try, I don't think it would be the same. It's kind of like that's his "personal signature."

    Many copywriters start out modeling what everyone else is doing which is fine...for awhile. You want to be different whether you can write in the "hype" style or not. Don't sweat it. You'll recognize your style the more you write. And there will be potential customers who like it and some that will not. But just remember the ones who don't will never buy from you anyway. But the ones who do...will trust you because of the way you relate to them. It's hard. Damn hard. But it will come. Just give it time...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    "I want to thank yall for all yall have done... if yuens ever get out this way... come on in...Dont be a stranger stranger". lol
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Now talking about my "slang" language.....I'm from deep east texas...grew up with words like "aint gonna", "ya'll", "ya-huh".....guess i'll have to work on that huh.....
    Why? I love the way you Texans talk. Write the way you talk. In fact, get yourself "Dragon Naturally Speaking" (Windoze) or "Macspeech Dictate" voice recognition software. You can train it to recognise your Texan accent and walk around the room dictating while your computer writes it up for you.

    Go further...brand yourself "Texas I.M. Mum" or something. Get into the pickup with the gun-rack. Make analogies about being a wildcatter oilman (woman) - "striking liquid gold on the nets"..."developing rich fields on the internets (stet)".

    "Texas wildcatter strikes it rich on the internet" next to a pic of you with grease smeared on your face, leather gloves, jeans.

    BTW honey its "advice" not "advise". (insert big smiley face here)
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    • Profile picture of the author texasmom64
      "Mr Copy",

      I want to thank you for this advice.

      What you wrote here has got the wheels in my mind rolling.

      Thanks so much.

      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Why? I love the way you Texans talk. Write the way you talk. In fact, get yourself "Dragon Naturally Speaking" (Windoze) or "Macspeech Dictate" voice recognition software. You can train it to recognise your Texan accent and walk around the room dictating while your computer writes it up for you.

      Go further...brand yourself "Texas I.M. Mum" or something. Get into the pickup with the gun-rack. Make analogies about being a wildcatter oilman (woman) - "striking liquid gold on the nets"..."developing rich fields on the internets (stet)".

      "Texas wildcatter strikes it rich on the internet" next to a pic of you with grease smeared on your face, leather gloves, jeans.

      BTW honey its "advice" not "advise". (insert big smiley face here)
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  • Profile picture of the author CopyWriteHer
    Texas Mom, I knew what you meant and took no offense. I was just looking for any reason that your prospects may have told you it was not "professional enough". I do agree with Mr. Lambe (there's a first for almost everything.... chuckle) in that using your personality and culture to brand yourself could be something to consider. Best wishes for much success.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevenalowe
    Kal is exactly right: test it, tweak it, establish a customer base and a reputation for professionalism first

    then build a relationship with the JV partners that you want by helping them with something; watch their twitter feeds or blog posts or whatever, and when you see something you can help with just jump in and help out

    people not only buy from friends, they sell with friends. make friends first
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  • Profile picture of the author jannatus
    Texasmom,

    U need to agitate THEIR problem at the beginning of the sales letter, not YOUR problem. I see where you're going with it, but with the amount of distractions and marketing bombard your average reader is suffering daily, if you don't come out and knock em between the eyes, he or she will just click the back button.

    Maybe something like this;

    "At Last. A Fool Proof 'No Bull' No Fuss PROFITABLE Proven Home Based Business You Can Cash In On, Starting TODAY
    - 100% Guranteed"

    'Are you tired, drained, confused, and feel lied to about (da da da and off u go)'
    See? Adress the pain they're feeling right now, then provide the solution or pitty party story a little later in the copy.

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jannatus View Post


      "At Last. A Fool Proof 'No Bull' No Fuss PROFITABLE Proven Home Based Business You Can Cash In On, Starting TODAY
      - 100% Guranteed"

      'Are you tired, drained, confused, and feel lied to about (da da da and off u go)'
      See? Adress the pain they're feeling right now, then provide the solution or pitty party story a little later in the copy.

      Hope this helps.
      The trouble with this main headline is you're straightaway putting the prospect into a no frame of mind.

      Using the word 'no' twice in this main headline seeds the unconscious mind negatively, not positively. You want to give the prospect every reason to say yes not no from the outset.

      The headline in my opinion is fatally flawed.

      I know you mean well but not the best advice I've ever clapped eyes on.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author jameswatson2002
    Sorry you're frustrated, texasmom64.

    Things will pick up, I'm sure, we've all had such days when we feel like nothing is working!
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  • Profile picture of the author dutchguy
    The biggest problem I see with the sales page is the lack of proof about all the succesfull businesses and sites you've setup using the newbie product, not including you're make money online products. What is you're expertise, and what makes you the expert.

    This is just my opion when looking at you're page and asking myself, would I buy this product, why not ... ?
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