Copywriting books and information overload

15 replies
Hey guys,

This is a question that has plagued me for awhile now. I stumbled upon direct response marketing probably 14 months ago and when I really started to study it I knew I had found the promised land.

In the last few months I realized that although I had studied so many things from Dan Kennedy and Jeff Paul among others that I had not achieved the success I wanted because I had not mastered copywriting. I learned all the concepts of lead generation/2-step marketing, all the stuff about 3-step sequences, using free recorded messages, backend selling, upsells, etc. but I didn't know how to write the copy.

So for my birthday I had my parents get me alot of books on copywriting. I got 3 books by John Caples (Making Ads Pay, Tested Advertising Methods 4th Edition and How to Make your Advertising Make Money), The Robert Collier Letter book, Victor Schwab's book "How to Write a Good Advertisement", Claude Hopkins "My Life in Advertising/Scientific Advertising", Ben Suarez' "7 Steps to Freedom" and some other various books on direct marketing/mail order including The Golden Mailbox by Ted Nicholas and some other things.

My issue is this, I am following Gary Halbert's advice (At a garage sale I got an entire box of almost EVERYTHING Halbert ever produced for like $25 dollars) on how to learn to write copy, but everytime I decide to just look around online I see that there are like a billion other books and courses from Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Gary Bencivenga, Jeff Paul, Bob Bly and everyone else.

I keep getting distracted and worried that I don't have the right things to really learn how to write copy so I can become rich.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and can kind of tell me if I'm being ridiculous or if I really should be buying everything under the sun from everyone. I was also wondering if I should purchase some sort of mentoring 1-1 with a good copywriter, I don't want to really learn copywriting in order to become a copywriter for hire but more along the lines of learning to write copy for my own products.

I know that more likely than not, the courses are probably just regurgitated information from the masters, and the fact I am so worried is a testament to the copywriting abilities of all these "gurus" but I just get worried I'm not really going to know how to write copy even though I'm going through these classic texts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I keep getting worried and I just want some advice about if I have most of what I will need to know in order to become a great copywriter.

Thanks guys.

-Josh

P.S. I am also handwriting ads since I bought a membership to a site with massive amounts of swipe files from Eugene Schwartz, Halbert, Ben Suarez, etc.
#books #copywriting #information #overload
  • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
    Hi Josh,

    This might sound a little odd, since it runs contradictory to those saying you need courses and such, books from the masters, etc., but it's true. If you want to get good at writing copy, learn people.

    Listen to them. Hear what they say, then watch what they actually do. Find out what they want and how they verbally express those wants. This will help you know which words to use to appeal to others who might want the same thing.

    Pay attention to the "people" around you and in the market you're hoping to serve. They will tell you exactly what you need to write in your copy to sell them.

    Secondary to learning people, you can read the books and get the courses for strategy and technique, but your best education is going to come from knowing the people you want to sell to.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    For now, quit buying, then resume your library as you make money...does that make sense?

    One point, and I usually get cremed with this But, of all the books you've read of people who are living...

    And this goes to what you said:

    I keep getting distracted and worried that I don't have the right things to really learn how to write copy so I can become rich.

    Very few of them became and/or died rich men.

    Most of the rich ones, usually, with many exceptions...built a BUSINESS on their copy.

    IF you goal is become rich, then you have one book which can help get you there...it is 7 Steps to Freedom II by Ben Suarez...once a Gary Halbert student...who has for the past 30 years operated a successful business which was built upon his copy.

    The NPGS formula has built at least 3 100 million dollar companies. As many as 1500 people were employed in Canton, OH at one time working for these Direct Response companies.

    Ben's main company, SCI may do over 300 million a year, has over 500 employees and has made Ben one of the richest men in Ohio (and perhaps the world dealing with %).

    The company has billions of dollars of products.

    Is this the kind of RICH you are talking about?

    That is Entrepreneurship. With all due respect to many good and some great copywriters, there is a big difference between having a successful copywriting business...and having a BIG business that hires copywriters.

    So, it begins and some would say ends, with WHAT DO YOU WANT?

    I call that Square One.

    What do you want? HOW do you want to get RICH?

    As for copy mentors, Ben Suarez had ONE mentor, Halbert, and five BOOKS of the masters.

    YOU have 10 time more copy info than he did...and he argued with Halbert about products constantly...until finally, he did what Gary told him to do...

    get into Astrology, which Ben hated, and still does...but from his Breakthrough Astrology Today Ads on the back of Sunday comics...the rest is history.

    Short advice, get back into 7 Steps and read the BORING parts on how to set up a business...

    Feel free to PM or email me gjaibz@yahoo.com and I'll guide you through it...I did the last edit on 7 Steps to Freedom about 3 years ago for the online edition (which was pulled for company reasons)...

    I think you have enough STUDY material...time for some ACTION.

    gjabiz




    Originally Posted by JJaouli1 View Post

    Hey guys,

    This is a question that has plagued me for awhile now. I stumbled upon direct response marketing probably 14 months ago and when I really started to study it I knew I had found the promised land.

    In the last few months I realized that although I had studied so many things from Dan Kennedy and Jeff Paul among others that I had not achieved the success I wanted because I had not mastered copywriting. I learned all the concepts of lead generation/2-step marketing, all the stuff about 3-step sequences, using free recorded messages, backend selling, upsells, etc. but I didn't know how to write the copy.

    So for my birthday I had my parents get me alot of books on copywriting. I got 3 books by John Caples (Making Ads Pay, Tested Advertising Methods 4th Edition and How to Make your Advertising Make Money), The Robert Collier Letter book, Victor Schwab's book "How to Write a Good Advertisement", Claude Hopkins "My Life in Advertising/Scientific Advertising", Ben Suarez' "7 Steps to Freedom" and some other various books on direct marketing/mail order including The Golden Mailbox by Ted Nicholas and some other things.

    My issue is this, I am following Gary Halbert's advice (At a garage sale I got an entire box of almost EVERYTHING Halbert ever produced for like $25 dollars) on how to learn to write copy, but everytime I decide to just look around online I see that there are like a billion other books and courses from Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Gary Bencivenga, Jeff Paul, Bob Bly and everyone else.

    I keep getting distracted and worried that I don't have the right things to really learn how to write copy so I can become rich.

    I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and can kind of tell me if I'm being ridiculous or if I really should be buying everything under the sun from everyone. I was also wondering if I should purchase some sort of mentoring 1-1 with a good copywriter, C
    I know that more likely than not, the courses are probably just regurgitated information from the masters, and the fact I am so worried is a testament to the copywriting abilities of all these "gurus" but I just get worried I'm not really going to know how to write copy even though I'm going through these classic texts.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated, I keep getting worried and I just want some advice about if I have most of what I will need to know in order to become a great copywriter.

    Thanks guys.

    -Josh

    P.S. I am also handwriting ads since I bought a membership to a site with massive amounts of swipe files from Eugene Schwartz, Halbert, Ben Suarez, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      So you read all of this info, 'yep that makes sense, this is perfect, wow! And this stuff here... this is killer advice, brilliant. And then there's this juicy tidbit over here and oh yes, mustn't forget what HE told me', and before too long you've got a mountain of information in your brain, all clamoring for your attention. Wahhhhh.

      In other words, you can very easily get snowed under with too much information in this business if you don't watch it, to the point where all of the new found knowledge suffocates your creativity.

      You want to know what the answer is?

      Only take on board what you need to know to get the job done today. Whatever it is you're currently working on.

      If for example... we could plug ourselves into a knowledge socket like an electrical socket in the wall, we fix the probe to our forehead, flick the switch and...



      Bingo! I'm now a walking talking encyclopedia. I know everything. Zhittttt! Now, how the hell do I organize this amount of knowledge to be able to do something useful with it?

      Sooner or later you'll realize that it's nothing to do with taking in knowledge for taking in knowledge sake but what you can do with all of this new found knowledge which matters most.

      The easiest answer for you is to start putting into practice what you're learning about. In other words, start writing sales copy.

      Sure, you're a newbie and you'll royally cock up more than a few times, make a right balls up, pigs ear out of your first attempt. But...

      ...it's from these humble beginnings where you'll learn the most from your mistakes. The secret to becoming a successful copywriter is never ever giving up. Just keep on practicing. Sooner or later you'll start to hit the ground running.

      If you do fall down and believe you me, all of us do and have done so often, just pick yourself up, dust yourself down and then... start moving in a forward direction again.

      Practice makes perfect, if at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again!

      Good luck,


      Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author abugah
        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post


        ...it's from these humble beginnings where you'll learn the most from your mistakes. The secret to becoming a successful copywriter is never ever giving up. Just keep on practicing. Sooner or later you'll start to hit the ground running.


        Good luck,


        Mark Andrews
        I think that's the best advice for any copywriter.

        You don't need to read 37 books before you write your first copy as I did when starting.

        The the biggest problem with newbies is lack of confidence.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Hi Josh,

      Over all the years like you I bought everything there is to buy on copywriting.

      And still do - thankfully it's now a passion not an obsession.

      Btw - you got a sensational deal on Halberts stuff (lol).


      My secret is to write my own notes from all the books, courses and seminars so I have the "best of the best"

      It prevents "information overload" And when you have a vast library so many of the tactics are repeated or reframed. There are more or less the same.

      Anyway, all you'll ever need is the top 20. Not 1,020.

      And I don't have to delve through 797 books or re - listen to 198 CD's every time I write something because I've got a secret vault with all the real killer material.

      It makes it so much easier. Because they'll always be an infinite number of ways to write.

      Again just choose your own "best" ways. Based on your style. Picking the right copywriting techniques from your special collection.

      Don't try to be the "guru" who wrote the stuff - be yourself.

      And do as the others suggested - write something and sell something.

      Don't worry about instant success.

      Because you'll have your very own treasure chest of the "very best" copywriting skills to improve anything and everything you do.

      Hope this helps,

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author abugah
    Reading is extremely good and it gives you copy ideas; the dos and don't s. However, you only become a good copywriter by writing copy. Write copy everyday. Sell imaginary products by copy. Assume you have been hired by Dan Kennedy. Get hold of copy for one of his product and write yours aiming to smash the control with the all the information you have.

    By the way, did you know that with all that you've read a year from now you'd have forgotten most of it? So that means that you don't read once and assume you've arrived.
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  • Profile picture of the author JJaouli1
    Thanks alot guys I really appreciate the help!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Sounds like a case of "analysis paralysis."

    Know what you know and get going with what you've got. And what you've got, if you know everything that is covered in all these books you've been reading, is a helluva lot more than the average bear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben_R
    learn one at a time - the time spent thinking over the advise is waay more valuable
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  • Profile picture of the author PsychoProfits
    JJaouli1, this seems to be the advice: 1. Work out what you want and how you want to get rich. 2. Read the books but make your own notes to refer to. 3. Study human psychology and observe people. 4. Read "7 Steps to Freedom II" by Ben Suarez. 5. Set up a business and sell something. 6. Fail fast, and try again and again.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougHughes
    No one ever learned to ride a bike or swim by reading about it. Stop reading and start selling.
    Signature

    I write copy. Learn More.>>

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    • Profile picture of the author Chris1212
      I think one of the hardest things to accept is that we already have everything we need to accomplish what we want.

      I think that's partly because the moment we realize/accept/fully internalize that, then suddenly the spotlight is on us to DO something that, perhaps, we're secretly terrified of... or else... we're terrified (and possibly subconsciously convinced) that we'll fail at if we do try.

      Everyone who's ever considered doing something new (at any level) has experienced this feeling to some degree. It's normal.

      In the products you listed, you have a gold mine in your hands already... put your money into marketing... not "learning something else/new". Find a product and market it or make your own product and market it. You need to make some $$, even if it's a small amount at first, to give you some feedback/confidence.. then you'll be off to the races.

      As for John Carlton... I've spent money on his stuff and IMHO, 10 years ago it was great, nowadays... um... how can I be polite here... I bought a seminar (hyped as the greatest thing EVER) and was EXTREMELY disappointed ... funny that his nose isn't 10-feet long. Don't expect your money back either if you buy.

      Striking out on your own... don't forget the most important thing is to TEST everything. With enough testing you'll strike gold.

      Good luck!
      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
        I think people are waiting for a "perfect" pitch. They want all the stars and planets to line up. Everything perfect. Then.....they'll make a million dollars.

        -What can you do now? I think thats the question.

        I think books give you a basis or foundation, but look at real ads that grab you. Come up with your own collection of great ads.

        -What ads caught your attention when you weren't even thinking about marketing or internet marketing?

        Robert Allen's real estate ones come to mind. I.e. "Send me to any city in America. Take away my wallet. And in 72 hours I'll be able to buy property".

        Those were brilliant. They were dramatic, they told a story. They were believable. I think believability gets lost when you're in information overload.

        I'd get a big stack of magazines, cut out 30-50 ads that catch your attention. Then figure out why, whats the hook. What makes it believable? I think you'll learn a lot more than just from books.

        I think most ads fail on the internet because they aren't believable. Too cut and paste and generic. Great ads come alive off the page, and you forget its an ad. Thats what makes you buy.
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