Please don't tell me that my copywriting skills sucks

26 replies
hi warriors,

this is Serena, I am starting my web design business and my target audience are small business owners that do not have websites yet.

this is my website (serena-atnip.com) I don't have a large clients base yet so I've made this limited time offer to develop custom designed sites with no upfront money (I know its crazy but it's a risk free offer to show off my skills) can you please tell me what are my chances that an interested customers could click that blue "book now" button?

Is their anything that I can add/improve?

thank you for your help
Serena
#copywriting #skills #sucks
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Je m'excuse, mais...Change it so that you charge up front.

    Don't be worried--if people want what you can do, they'll pay. 50% up front or 100% up front; it's your choice. People respect you more if you charge up front.

    Otherwise you'll attract bottom-feeders and scumbags and you don't want those. And I have never had a customer that I worked free for come back and refer me to another client.

    Can you slow the slide changing speed? It seems to whip through so fast that I can't read the messages.

    "Who else want*s* to get an awesome website?"

    Well, nobody wants a lousy one. Do they really want a website? Or do they want a place for prospective customers to arrive at and learn about their business...and hopefully make a buying decision?

    There are other little niggly things but I know English isn't your first language. It's much better than if I were to write something in another language!

    Your main area in the lower half and right of the screen is OK. The intention is right...bullet points are fine. However, they are the same as any other web designer's. So what is it that YOU bring to the table that's different?

    The message "Hire Me--Get a Free Quote!" is contradictory because it is out of order. First you give them the quote, then they hire you. Drop the Hire Me. And consider charging 10 - 20% of your end fee for the quote, because they'll steal your design half the time and run off to get it fulfilled at the lowest price. Tell them you'll deduct that quote fee off of the final investment if they go with you.

    I realize this is a turnaround from your initial direction, but trust me: you're setting yourself up for being scammed and having some unnecessary frustrating and upsetting experiences if you leave your business model the way it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Micah Medina
    Change the copy of your website so that when I google a snippet from your testimonials... I don't see the same phrase repeated 1,720 times. Sale instantly lost.

    Appeal to bandwagon usually works better for products ("WHO ELSE WANTS FREE BIG MACS?") than services ("WHO ELSE WANTS A UNIQUE, HANDCRAFTED WORK OF ART THAT WILL REPRESENT YOUR BUSINESS FOR YEARS TO COME?"). It can also work for something that you're trying to imply can be done for little effort (who else wants to fill up their bank account, whatever) -

    And then you're contradicting the implication ("get a website from me because everyone else is") because you don't have a portfolio. So change your headline. Everything Kani says, too.

    Don't hose yourself over looking for cheap clients that are going to overwork you and screw with you. If you're any good, charge the price you deserve and wait. I'm really cheap is not the hook you want to lead with. Do you have any portfolio at all? If you don't, go take some pictures of yourself in Paris being interesting and sell your own personal image for now.

    Like, for example... this?

    "I am a frontend developer & designer from Paris. My passion is creating accessible, standards based websites with an eye for user interface and tight, clean design. I use a set of wonderful design and development tools to accomplish my goals. This tool set includes but is not limited to HTML, CSS, JavaScript, the Adobe Creative."

    No one cares that you know how to use Photoshop. Might as well just be blank white space. I don't know you well enough to sell you, but you should.
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    • Hi Serena,

      Do what Kaniganj, Micah and Mal suggested.

      Whatever you do don't offer universal "pay when they're done" websites.

      Unless you're incredibly lucky you'll be ripped off.

      If you don't have a portfolio - you could do a couple of "no upfront" fee sites - choose your favorite businesses - people you know and trust. So you should be paid without any hassle.

      And offer the deal to them.


      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Oh boy. How many times have we seen this? A designer who hasn't a clue how to sell herself.

    For starters...forget the whole "no money upfront" offer. That smells of desperation. And as others have pointed out, will just attract the bottom-feeders.

    You would be better off sticking to basics - "Here's what I have...here's why your life will be so much better if you have it too...here's what it costs...here's where to get it". Let your clean designs speak for themselves.

    Ditch the "who else wants..." intro too - that's a stinker.

    Vous êtes à Paris...comme moi. Mais vous n'avez pas appel à l'aide? En fait j'habite à Clamart. Un Australien naufragé à Clamart.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    You shouldn't be positioning yourself as website 'designer' in the first place Serena. Not when you're simply using Elegant Themes for the actual website (Wordpress) templates.

    Stick to the facts is my advice. Tell your target audience you help them to create a website but leave the word 'designer' out of it.

    Also, you need to focus on why a small business without a web presence wants one. And the top reason why any business wants a website is to attract more leads, customers, clients to their business hence increasing their visibility to the global marketplace and increasing their potential bottom line.

    The slider at the top as Jason mentioned, is going far too fast and it's a major distraction whilst trying to read the first sentence or two above the fold. Same problem for the customer reviews at the bottom of the page. They're changing out far too quickly, one reads the first line of each testimonial and before you can read further, it changes to the next one.

    Slow them both down dramatically.


    Mark Andrews
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    • Profile picture of the author Micah Medina
      I guess I'm in a really giving mood tonight? So, here's what I think you should do. There are other guys on this forum smarter than me so if they don't like this, hear them out.

      Your goal right now is to create the appearance of value... basically from nothing. That's basically what writing is. You don't want to beg people to take your work for free. That's f---ing dumb.

      So check it out.

      First of all... the themes? Eliminate. I assume you're just using them for demos or something? Anyway, I see that stuff and I assume you don't have any game. You don't want that.

      New slides. Three slides, linking to three web pages. You'll need a friend to help you. You have friends, right?

      1. Picture of you talking to someone a little older than you. You're leaning forward and smiling, maybe holding a folder. Their mouth is open, they're talking to you and you're listening. I don't know how tall you are, get someone smaller than you if you can manage it. Stand on a shoebox if you need to. Got a teacher? Relative?

      Every politician running for office has a picture like this on their official website.


      They're talking to you. Authority.
      You're not leaning backwards as if they're lecturing you, you're listening to them. Likability.
      You're smiling a little but not ^__^ - approachable. You're a real person and not a headshot. You do this in the real world.

      "Introduction" (this headline stinks, use something else)
      My name is Serena Atnip, and I help small business owners build a professional image that creates lasting profit.

      This page is going to link to an expanded version of the "your business needs web design" page.

      2. You, in town. You don't need to be front and center here.

      "Process" (This is a little better but no showstopper...)
      I'm looking forward to working with you. Here's the exact process we'll use to make sure you succeed. ("succeed is too broad but I'm in a rush")

      Make a page where you talk about what clients can expect when they work with you. How do you contact them, what questions do you ask, how fast, blah blah blah. What you won't do and what they shouldn't expect. Value building stuff. Someone is looking at the slide and imagining working with you. Now you're not some college dropout begging for a chance. You're a professional and they're coming to learn and take advice from you.

      3. You, at a table, drawing something by hand. Not close enough for us to see what because the point is that you're working on something and you are paying attention to it. Soft focus shot.
      "Portfolio" - You can learn about my previous cases here.

      If you don't have a portfolio, get one. Buy a couple of .info or .com domains and make a Wordpress theme from scratch. If you can't make websites, sell SEO stuff. Eventually, you want to replace pictures of you with pictures of your work.

      Do you have other stuff? Images, graphics, whatever? Do it.

      Optional: Post around here a lot, convince people that you're cool, offer to partner up with somebody and use some of their case studies in exchange for a cut of your profits.

      Optional: Warrior For Hire thread. Charge what you're worth. Get testimonials.

      Optional: Fiverr. Five dollar logos. Portfolio building.

      Optional: Do a blog. Use PLR stuff as the base, give it "your voice". Post 1000 words once a week. Instant value builder.

      Anyway, do all this stuff and charge actual money. hth
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      • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        Je m'excuse, mais...Change it so that you charge up front.
        I think prospect will be more willing to work with me if I don't charge them upfront.
        like copywriting, webdesign is very crowded market to be in and I need a competitve advantage to win customers and I didn't found anything best than removing all risks that the customers loses his money on a lousy design.

        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        Don't be worried--if people want what you can do, they'll pay. 50% up front or 100% up front; it's your choice. People respect you more if you charge up front.
        That is true if I had a portfolio, but I am just starting and I need to do some sacrifices.

        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        Otherwise you'll attract bottom-feeders and scumbags and you don't want those. And I have never had a customer that I worked free for come back and refer me to another client.
        I've already did but that's fine because I am improving my skills everyday. (it's not always about money)

        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        "Who else want*s* to get an awesome website?"
        I know, my english sucks!! ( is it suck or sucks? :p )

        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        Your main area in the lower half and right of the screen is OK. The intention is right...bullet points are fine. However, they are the same as any other web designer's. So what is it that YOU bring to the table that's different?
        I know there is tons of designers way better than me, but I stand out because I am willing to provide a great services to my customers with an absolutly risk free offer. (I have payed upfront a couple of copywriters in the past to write me a sales letter for my website and I didn't liked both, too bad for me because I didn't used them and I cannot get my money back.. that's why I don't want this to happen to my customers)

        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        The message "Hire Me--Get a Free Quote!" is contradictory because it is out of order. First you give them the quote, then they hire you. Drop the Hire Me. And consider charging 10 - 20% of your end fee for the quote, because they'll steal your design half the time and run off to get it fulfilled at the lowest price. Tell them you'll deduct that quote fee off of the final investment if they go with you.
        I will feel bad charging for a quote that took me 30 seconds to make;I am not sure that you will ask me for money before you tell me how much does it cost to write a copy for me, will you?



        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        Change the copy of your website so that when I google a snippet from your testimonials... I don't see the same phrase repeated 1,720 times. Sale instantly lost.
        unfortunatly they are some dummy testimonials that I am putting unti I get real ones

        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        Don't hose yourself over looking for cheap clients that are going to overwork you and screw with you. If you're any good, charge the price you deserve and wait.
        I understand, but That's very hard to do when you are just starting



        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        Oh boy. How many times have we seen this? A designer who hasn't a clue how to sell herself.

        For starters...forget the whole "no money upfront" offer. That smells of desperation. And as others have pointed out, will just attract the bottom-feeders.
        Like I explained before, it's just a limited offer to remove all risks and encourage the customers to see whant I can do for him.
        I'd prefer it to seems desperate than scammy because I know how it feels to no getting your money's worth on something you will never use.

        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        You would be better off sticking to basics - "Here's what I have...here's why your life will be so much better if you have it too...here's what it costs...here's where to get it". Let your clean designs speak for themselves.
        I would agree with that if ther were only dozen of web designer over there, but how do you compete with thousands?

        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        Ditch the "who else wants..." intro too - that's a stinker.
        I will

        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        Vous êtes à Paris...comme moi. Mais vous n'avez pas appel à l'aide? En fait j'habite à Clamart. Un Australien naufragé à Clamart.
        [/QUOTE]
        Oui je travaille a paris II dans une entreprise de finance et j'habite dans l'Essonne. je fait des sites web juste pour le fun car ce n'est pas mon vrai métier


        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

        You shouldn't be positioning yourself as website 'designer' in the first place Serena. Not when you're simply using Elegant Themes for the actual website (Wordpress) templates.
        I don't think that customers care about me more than they care about the work that I can do for them. I am using these templates temporarily to fill the space until I build my own portfolio.

        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

        Also, you need to focus on why a small business without a web presence wants one. And the top reason why any business wants a website is to attract more leads, customers, clients to their business hence increasing their visibility to the global marketplace and increasing their potential bottom line.
        I am sure that most of them know that already.. I just need a chance to prove to them that they can really improve their business by having a professionally designed website.

        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

        The slider at the top as Jason mentioned, is going far too fast and it's a major distraction whilst trying to read the first sentence or two above the fold. Same problem for the customer reviews at the bottom of the page. They're changing out far too quickly, one reads the first line of each testimonial and before you can read further, it changes to the next one.
        I don't want prospects to read what's in the silders because they are dummy templates I am using temporarily.


        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        Your goal right now is to create the appearance of value... basically from nothing. That's basically what writing is. You don't want to beg people to take your work for free. That's f---ing dumb.
        it's not begging, but you are right, the propspect will prabaly think that this offer is too good to be true!!

        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        First of all... the themes? Eliminate. I assume you're just using them for demos or something? Anyway, I see that stuff and I assume you don't have any game. You don't want that.
        They are better than nothing :p

        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        New slides. Three slides, linking to three web pages. You'll need a friend to help you. You have friends, right?

        1. Picture of you talking to someone a little older than you. You're leaning forward and smiling, maybe holding a folder. Their mouth is open, they're talking to you and you're listening. I don't know how tall you are, get someone smaller than you if you can manage it. Stand on a shoebox if you need to. Got a teacher? Relative?

        Every politician running for office has a picture like this on their official website.


        They're talking to you. Authority.
        You're not leaning backwards as if they're lecturing you, you're listening to them. Likability.
        You're smiling a little but not ^__^ - approachable. You're a real person and not a headshot. You do this in the real world.

        "Introduction" (this headline stinks, use something else)
        My name is Serena Atnip, and I help small business owners build a professional image that creates lasting profit.

        This page is going to link to an expanded version of the "your business needs web design" page.

        2. You, in town. You don't need to be front and center here.

        "Process" (This is a little better but no showstopper...)
        I'm looking forward to working with you. Here's the exact process we'll use to make sure you succeed. ("succeed is too broad but I'm in a rush")

        Make a page where you talk about what clients can expect when they work with you. How do you contact them, what questions do you ask, how fast, blah blah blah. What you won't do and what they shouldn't expect. Value building stuff. Someone is looking at the slide and imagining working with you. Now you're not some college dropout begging for a chance. You're a professional and they're coming to learn and take advice from you.
        I think prospects will be more interested in my work that my pictures. yes! I can use these pictures in a seperate page that talks about me but I won't feel comfortable putting them in the home page.

        Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

        If you don't have a portfolio, get one. Buy a couple of .info or .com domains and make a Wordpress theme from scratch. If you can't make websites, sell SEO stuff. Eventually, you want to replace pictures of you with pictures of your work.
        This is a good idea, I will invest in a few domains. (is MicahMedina.com still available? )




        Guys, thank you so much for taking the time to review my website, I really appreciate it!


        Serena.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
          Originally Posted by Serena Atnip View Post

          Oui je travaille a paris II dans une entreprise de finance et j'habite dans l'Essonne. je fait des sites web juste pour le fun car ce n'est pas mon vrai métier
          Oui.

          --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    You don't need a portfolio. You need to find out why people want a website. Differentiate yourself by not being another tech-head website-slinger.

    I DO ask for money (which is a commitment and demonstrates intention) up front. I don't do a thing about coming up with a specific concept or any writing until money is on the table. In your case, I would charge a starter fee for doing the basic design of the site. Then at least you are getting paid something. If the prospect walks away with your design, then you have earned some money. If they choose to have you implement it, then you can deduct that fee from your total investment.

    You BELIEVE that because you don't have a portfolio and that you are starting out, that you need to "make sacrifices." But those are your limiting beliefs! I get copywriting work without showing anyone examples of previous projects. How can this be? Because I find out exactly WHY this person wants copy written and I speak directly to them about their issues. That's where my credibility comes from--the quality of my questions. While other copywriters, in the rare situation that I have competition, are blathering on about generalities, I'm getting the prospect excited about what we are going to do about their specific situation. Do this for your prospects and they will buy from you.
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    • Profile picture of the author abugah
      Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

      You don't need a portfolio. You need to find out why people want a website. Differentiate yourself by not being another tech-head website-slinger.



      You BELIEVE that because you don't have a portfolio and that you are starting out, that you need to "make sacrifices." But those are your limiting beliefs! I get copywriting work without showing anyone examples of previous projects. How can this be? Because I find out exactly WHY this person wants copy written and I speak directly to them about their issues. That's where my credibility comes from--the quality of my questions. While other copywriters, in the rare situation that I have competition, are blathering on about generalities, I'm getting the prospect excited about what we are going to do about their specific situation. Do this for your prospects and they will buy from you.
      I think the biggest problem here is a LIMITING BELIEF. Serena seems to reject most of the positioning strategies that have been advanced by veteran marketers.

      I can't believe she said this ...

      ''I will feel bad charging for a quote that took me 30 seconds to make.''

      Well, that's the way life is.

      Some people charge $100 for something that took them 10 seconds to make and they still get clients queuing round the block. Others charge nothing and maybe get one client a year.

      From my experience, people have very little respect for free stuff.

      This link can help support my theory..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pricing
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      • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
        Originally Posted by abugah View Post

        I think the biggest problem here is a LIMITING BELIEF. Serena seems to reject most of the positioning strategies that have been advanced by veteran marketers.

        I can't believe she said this ...

        ''I will feel bad charging for a quote that took me 30 seconds to make.''

        Well, that's the way life is.

        Some people charge $100 for something that took them 10 seconds to make and they still get clients queuing round the block. Others charge nothing and maybe get one client a year.
        your point is valid if I were experienced with hundreds of clients under my belt, but I am just starting and I need an edge over my competitors.

        Originally Posted by abugah View Post

        From my experience, people have very little respect for free stuff.
        Who said I am working for free? I just want to eliminate the risks that my prospect will lose their money on a lousy design by giving them the opportunity to see how their future website is going to look like before they decide to buy, and if they don't like it I am the only one to blame for my mediocre work.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Hi Serina... I'd suggest you create a sig file and put the link to your site in there. You might as well get noticed if you're going to be posting. Welcome.
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    • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Hi Serina... I'd suggest you create a sig file and put the link to your site in there. You might as well get noticed if you're going to be posting. Welcome.
      Thanks for the tip
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      • Profile picture of the author wilmath
        Hello Serena, I used the same sales pitch you did last year for my copywriting business. It worked. I attracted new customers. However, most of them were not prepared to start their own business. I created the copy but they did not do anything else for the business. I rarely got paid and , to a degree, quit the business model.

        However, most of the Old Masters of Copywriting strongly endorse this sales pitch. Claude Hopkins used it to sell horses. Robert Collier used it for shirts. Even today many of the best copywriters will have a very little money down on their own products.

        What if you slightly changed your pitch to only include existing business's? That would separate the dreamers from the doers.

        As far as pure copywriting goes, what if you came up with One strong Headline? There seemed to be several headlines, all competing for attention and saying the same thing.
        I thought the sites in your portfolio looked gorgeous. I think it would help to have links to those sites.

        MORE IMPORTANTLY: I think you have a huge USP (unique sales proposition) that you are not using. I am assuming you are French. Your English is excellent and could certainly pass for an English speaker. Why not research the French companies that export to English speaking countries and the English/American companies that export to France?
        Find out which industries are involved and go after the medium and small players in that industry. The big players will already have websites and you can point this out to the smaller companies.

        Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author Micah Medina
    I don't think that customers care about me more than they care about the work that I can do for them.
    Serena... if you really thought people didn't care about the image of person selling them the service, then you wouldn't have spell-checked your copy before you put it on your website.

    Why do you think someone buys Coke instead of Royal Crown? Or an iPod instead of a Zune? They care about the image of those businesses and how they're going to feel when they buy it.

    I promise that portfolio or not, you'll make more money faster selling yourself as valuable out of the gate than as someone who "wants a shot".

    Reverse your mindset when it comes to how much you should charge, how wary customers will be, etc. I haven't seen your work yet, but if you're any good... act like it and charge like it, even if it seems counter-intuitive.

    PS... MicahMedina.com is still under construction. When it's ready it's gonna have some pictures of me. Just a couple of little ones though. I mean you can go to the Eiffel Tower, I've got The Big Chicken.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    My honest opinion?

    I think you have a good, original concept here. I would not surprise me AT ALL if 12-15% of your website's visitors choose to book an appointment by clicking the blue button.

    What I like about your site is the fact that you manage to incorporate certain direct-response copy tactics seamlessly into polished, respectable looking professional website. You include all the basic elements that a good sales letter should include (stong headline, bullet points that describe benefits, testimonials, etc), but you do it while maintaining a sleek professional image. I think this is a concept that would put a lot of marketing firms to shame.

    However, I would do a thing or two differently:

    1. I would change the offer from "you pay nothing" to "you pay only 50%." You don't want people trying to scam you.

    2. In your profile, remove the text that describes which tools you use, and replace it with text about the kinds of features you can put on a website (e.g. sliding pictures like the ones you have on your own site).

    3. There are a few specific lines I would change. For example, "STOP GIVING AWAY YOUR BUSINESS TO YOUR COMPETITORS!" Your intention here isn't clear right away, it took me a minute to realize you were talking about business clients, not like your business idea or whatever. I would replace that line with something like, "get an edge over your competitors online."
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  • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
    Originally Posted by wilmath View Post

    Hello Serena, I used the same sales pitch you did last year for my copywriting business. It worked. I attracted new customers. However, most of them were not prepared to start their own business. I created the copy but they did not do anything else for the business. I rarely got paid and , to a degree, quit the business model.
    it happened to me many times, but I am fine with that. it's niot always about money as I keep practicing and improving my skills everyday.

    Originally Posted by wilmath View Post

    However, most of the Old Masters of Copywriting strongly endorse this sales pitch. Claude Hopkins used it to sell horses. Robert Collier used it for shirts. Even today many of the best copywriters will have a very little money down on their own products.
    I still beleive in the principle of giving service first, and money will follow.

    Originally Posted by wilmath View Post

    What if you slightly changed your pitch to only include existing business's? That would separate the dreamers from the doers.
    sometime existing business fear change and tend to keep their old methods of working. I am still looking for the holy grail sales letter to persuade them that they need an online presence.

    Originally Posted by wilmath View Post

    As far as pure copywriting goes, what if you came up with One strong Headline? There seemed to be several headlines, all competing for attention and saying the same thing.
    I thought the sites in your portfolio looked gorgeous. I think it would help to have links to those sites.
    I am working on that.. but I am not that good at copywriting! I tried hiring couple of copywriters in the past and I was disappointed with the result.

    Originally Posted by wilmath View Post

    MORE IMPORTANTLY: I think you have a huge USP (unique sales proposition) that you are not using. I am assuming you are French. Your English is excellent and could certainly pass for an English speaker. Why not research the French companies that export to English speaking countries and the English/American companies that export to France?
    Find out which industries are involved and go after the medium and small players in that industry. The big players will already have websites and you can point this out to the smaller companies.
    I am working on that too, even here in France, the web design market is very crowded and I thought that my chances are higher if I target global clients.

    Thank you very much for your time!
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    • Hi Serena,

      Many have talked to you about "limited beliefs"

      And yes, it's best not to have them.

      But it was good to see - your view is to give great value to your clients.

      Do that and the money should take care of itself.


      Steve


      P.S. But again don't offer "pay when it's done" sites. If you're going to give your full commitment and dedication to your clients - ask them to do the same for you.

      Get at least 50% in advance. The balance as soon as they're happy with your work.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hils
        Hi Serena

        I genuinely like the clean look and feel of your site.

        My only comment to add to the rest...a spelling mistake needs correcting - should read 'professional' not 'prefessional' in the 'You Won't Get A Second Chance' paragraph.

        Good luck with your business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
          Originally Posted by Hils View Post

          Hi Serena

          I genuinely like the clean look and feel of your site.
          Thank you


          Originally Posted by Hils View Post

          My only comment to add to the rest...a spelling mistake needs correcting - should read 'professional' not 'prefessional' in the 'You Won't Get A Second Chance' paragraph.
          shame on me I am still making typos mistakes! fixed that. thanks for pointing it.

          Originally Posted by Hils View Post

          Good luck with your business.
          yeah! I need a lot of it
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      • Profile picture of the author Serena Atnip
        Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

        Hi Serena,

        P.S. But again don't offer "pay when it's done" sites. If you're going to give your full commitment and dedication to your clients - ask them to do the same for you.

        Get at least 50% in advance. The balance as soon as they're happy with your work.
        Imagine you were in the shoes of one of my prospects and you need a website for your business! what would you prefer, paying 50% upfront with no guarantee of result? or waiting to see if the website is worth your money?

        The answer is obvious to me, I will always go for the second offer because I hate losing money.
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        • Originally Posted by Serena Atnip View Post

          Imagine you were in the shoes of one of my prospects and you need a website for your business! what would you prefer, paying 50% upfront with no guarantee of result? or waiting to see if the website is worth your money?

          The answer is obvious to me, I will always go for the second offer because I hate losing money.
          Ok - one way around it is - give a full money back guarantee if they are not happy.

          Serena, all I'm trying to do is stop you from being ripped off and working for nothing.

          Which is the risk you take if you don't charge any upfront fees.

          But of course this is your business and do whatever you feel is right.

          In a perfect world your plan would work - and if all your clients are honest, decent and sincere you may find it is perfect.


          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author nadia712
            Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

            Ok - one way around it is - give a full money back guarantee if they are not happy.

            Serena, all I'm trying to do is stop you from being ripped off and working for nothing.

            Which is the risk you take if you don't charge any upfront fees.

            But of course this is your business and do whatever you feel is right.

            In a perfect world your plan would work - and if all your clients are honest, decent and sincere you may find it is perfect.


            Steve
            Even if you were in a perfect world and you didn't get ripped off by anyone who came forward to give you a shot, offering your services on a "free unless proven valuable" basis is a pretty poor positioning strategy.

            What does that say about you and your services? It's unlikely you're going to attract the type of client that will value your work if working for free is your front-end proposition.

            You've asked for peoples' advice, and loads of people have responded giving a fairly uniform opinion. Maybe you should consider taking their word for it and giving it a shot? Or, heck, even split-test to see which works better - the way you've got things set up now or the way people have suggested you try.

            Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author stephen de vries
    I completely agree with just about everybody above; do *not* offer your services upfront before any kind of payment. I've been in your position, thinking it would be a convenient thing to offer clients, hoping they'll all flood orders to hire me for... they didn't.
    Sure, I got a handful of clients (mostly desperate for a website), but 95% of people think you're desperate.
    As with the handful of clients who signed on - they were so picky and took forever to pay up. Very frustrating. Rather offer a money-back guarantee if they're not happy with the outcome, but ensure their input on the process of getting their site together is there, so they wont have any reason to cash in on your MBG.

    The look of your online representation is clean and easy to navitage, but shorten the reasons you're giving them to hire you/need a website done by you. Leave it up to 6 (max) bulleted points, take the paragraph out and you're good.

    Good luck on your venture!
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
      Read Dan Furman's book, Do The Web Write.

      He gives some excellent advice for a business that sell services. He also has great advice on positioning your business in the marketplace.

      Best of luck.

      Thomas O'Malley
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  • Profile picture of the author Omar Khafagy
    Serena,

    Lots of advice in this thread, isn't there? Not a whole lot to do with your copy, though. There's probably a pretty good reason for that.

    You see, the people you are selling to are people like us... small businesses. In fact, I use graphic designers regularly and have often even posted advertisements at local colleges where graphic designers really are untested.

    I do not search for a large portfolio of work in less experienced graphic designers. I search for the correct attitude.

    The correct attitude is flexible and willing to make changes. The correct attitude is hungry to learn more and demonstrates an intense curiosity and love for what they do.

    Price, while of course important, is not as valuable to me as *time*. I don't want you to waste my time. Time is what earns me money, and the more time I spend chasing a hired freelancer, or expressing my desires, or discussing revisions, the more frustrated I become.

    While not paying you up front *sounds* wonderful, I would have to wonder how much time you are setting aside for me? After all, you have to make a living, so how much of your time have I secured without paying anything at all up front?

    This makes me nervous. I'm going to be spending time sending you emails, speaking with you over the phone, and discussing details of my project with you, but I have no sense of having retained you at all.

    There is a sense of 'sealing the deal' when money exchanges hands. It makes me feel safe knowing that you've got a true incentive to keep working with me because you know I'm a paying customer. Money means that our relationship is founded based upon something more than "trust", which hasn't been earned yet because you haven't delivered anything.

    I'm not simply purchasing a graphic. If I was, then I wouldn't want you. I'm purchasing a service, and services are not about the end product alone. They're about the experience with the individual selling that product.

    In any event, I cannot convince you one way or the other. I simply wanted to point out to you that you're assuming something incorrect about those who will hire you, namely that they are like you.

    Good luck in your endeavours!
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    Administrator of www.CopywritingBoard.com

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