Is this the Worst Sales Page ever written?

travlinguy

12 years ago

Create a sig file and put the link in there. You'll get more responses.

Thanks
1 reply

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copynewbie 12 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Create a sig file and put the link in there. You'll get more responses.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it now but I dont think I am allowed to until I hit a certain number of posts. Oh well!
- Thanks
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Andrew Gould

12 years ago

Here’s a free plan that I found online. I don’t remember where I found it and I don’t mean any offense towards its author. But in all honesty, is this a plan you would enjoy following?

What would you think if someone took some of your free training, and completely out of context, put it on their sales page to mock?

Thanks
1 reply

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Andrew Gould

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copynewbie 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Gould

What would you think if someone took some of your free training, and completely out of context, put it on their sales page to mock?

Although my intention was not to mock, you make a fair point. In fact the extract free training was only based on several I found online, rather than any particular example.

I'll edit the sales page accordingly.

Thanks for the input!
- Thanks
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Serena Atnip

12 years ago

you will feel better as soon as you see this horror warriorforum.com/copywriting-forum/512135-sales-page-review-much-appreciated.html

Thanks

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Andrew Gould

12 years ago

As no one else appears to be biting I'll give you a few more thoughts:

Make the first half more visually interesting like the second half is, there's not even a splash of color until I get down to your(?) picture.

I'd like to see pictures of you finishing or at least running a marathon.

Break the headline up, at the moment it's a rather scary slab of text and none of it jumps out at me. Don't use a period at the end of a headline (and are you missing an "of" in-between "pair socks"?).

The actual headline needs to be more specific to you and your product. If "elite marathon runners" are using it, prove it. And does a pair of socks really cost more than $37? (Maybe in this market they do, but as an outsider it seems excessive).

The copy between your headline and your salutation doesn't add anything.

Some of your sentences are a little bit wordy and awkward, just read the entire thing out loud and you'll catch most of them.

I wouldn't try to close and go over the guarantee before I've told them everything they're getting. And you've told me how cheap it is compared to personal training with you, but you've not told me why it's so cheap.

I think you should mention it's for beginners as well as advanced runners in, or near, the headline.

Go through your bullets, some of them need to be expanded on and made clearer, possibly even given their own paragraphs. Be aware of "the curse of knowledge" - you're the expert and take this stuff for granted, your prospects aren't experts and might not know exactly what you're talking about.

Hope this helps you.

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

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Andrew Gould

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maximus242

12 years ago

Ways to improve your response:

* Lower your price initially, just to test and see what the conversion rate is (you can always raise it back up)

* Test a different headline

* Tell the reader how they will benefit from reading your advertisement

* Talk less about yourself, more about your reader

* Your competing too much with free plans, it sounds like your trying to sell them instead of giving them the privilege of buying (example, there are tons of free internet marketing courses out there yet people still pay $2000 for mass control)

most of all

YOU NEED A BETTER HEADLINE

and a better lead in

Also better subheads

These are the weak parts of the copy

The real weakness of this copy is that its a little bit boring. Get jazzed up and excited about your product, I think you were bored or it was late at night when you wrote this

This is what you need to do, ask yourself:

What is unique about my product?

What is the greatest value or advantage someone will gain from owning my product?

How is my product superior to all the other options out there?

What would get the attention of a marathon runner if he was asleep at 3 am and had just completed a 17 hour run? What could you say that would get him up out of bed, and onto the computer?

When you have the answer to that question - you have your real headline

[ 1 ] Thanks
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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by maximus242

YOU NEED A BETTER HEADLINE

and a better lead in

Also better subheads

These are the weak parts of the copy

The real weakness of this copy is that its a little bit boring. Get jazzed up and excited about your product, I think you were bored or it was late at night when you wrote this

This is what you need to do, ask yourself:

What is unique about my product?

What is the greatest value or advantage someone will gain from owning my product?

How is my product superior to all the other options out there?

What would get the attention of a marathon runner if he was asleep at 3 am and had just completed a 17 hour run? What could you say that would get him up out of bed, and onto the computer?

When you have the answer to that question - you have your real headline

This is really great advice. Thanks for it. Im going to go into a darkened room and try to drill down into the answers to these questions then write several different versions of the main heading and each sub-heading.

Then I'll have some variations to test, test, test.

Again - THANKS!

Thanks

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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Gould

As no one else appears to be biting I'll give you a few more thoughts:

Make the first half more visually interesting like the second half is, there's not even a splash of color until I get down to your(?) picture.

I'd like to see pictures of you finishing or at least running a marathon.

Break the headline up, at the moment it's a rather scary slab of text and none of it jumps out at me. Don't use a period at the end of a headline (and are you missing an "of" in-between "pair socks"?).

The actual headline needs to be more specific to you and your product. If "elite marathon runners" are using it, prove it. And does a pair of socks really cost more than $37? (Maybe in this market they do, but as an outsider it seems excessive).

The copy between your headline and your salutation doesn't add anything.

Some of your sentences are a little bit wordy and awkward, just read the entire thing out loud and you'll catch most of them.

I wouldn't try to close and go over the guarantee before I've told them everything they're getting. And you've told me how cheap it is compared to personal training with you, but you've not told me why it's so cheap.

I think you should mention it's for beginners as well as advanced runners in, or near, the headline.

Go through your bullets, some of them need to be expanded on and made clearer, possibly even given their own paragraphs. Be aware of "the curse of knowledge" - you're the expert and take this stuff for granted, your prospects aren't experts and might not know exactly what you're talking about.

Hope this helps you.

Thanks for all this great insight Andrew - I can't tell you how helpful it is to get a second pair of eyes on this.

I'm going to work through the copy with your message printed out and make a number of edits.

Again - thanks so much for your advice.

Thanks

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Jason Kanigan

12 years ago

Not bad at all so far. Credibility doesn't seem to be an issue. The order of everything is good.

Headline font is too big. Needs to be shorter as well. Also $37 for a pair of socks seems excessive...the comparison doesn't work for me.

Your writing is decent...I feel that you're speaking from experience...I'd spend my time on that headline.

Thanks

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bankableResults

12 years ago

Can you see how these small changes helps your copy flow better (and builds credibility right at the beginning!)..?

A veteran marathoner, author and speaker says...

"Finally! Now you can grab the same training used by elite marathon runners to charge through the training wall and achieve you marathon dream - all for less than a pair socks!

Stop wasting your time with "free" marathon programs that just don´t work. Get on board with the professionals, save yourself hundreds of dollars in personal coaching fees, and avoid wasting dozens of hours of your free time overtraining!

Dear Fellow Marathoner,

If you’ve got your heart set on crossing that marathon finish line still running, posting a dominating time without having sacrificed your personal life along the way, and maybe even have enough energy left to smile for the camera... then keep reading!"

My name is Dereck Johnson. I’m a veteran marathon runner, speaker and multi-published author with over 15 years’ worth of marathon experience. I’m also a father, with a loving family and a full time job.... so I know how challenging it is to fit tough training around valuable personal time.

Let’s face it, training for a marathon is daunting, and it doesn’t matter if you’re an absolute beginner or a seasoned pro.

I´ll let you in on a little secret. I`m not even a "natural" runner. Not at all. I only took up running well into adulthood (at age <age> to be exact), and I can tell you I wasn’t in great shape. I <description in picture words they can relate to>.

Anyway, <describe why you took up running>. I started off with just jogging, and to make a long story short, two months later I finished my first 5k... and basically...

I was hooked!

As soon as I crossed that finish line, I decided to sign up for my first marathon. But before I knew it, I run into some major obstacles.

The marathon is the ultimate challenge for every runner. And there´s a lot of things that can go wrong...

I <describe problems and frustrations that your market is experiencing... that your training plan solves>.

etc. etc. etc.

Of course this needs more a lot more work. But the structure and psycology is there.

By doing these small changes, you overcome one of the biggest objection of all: "Why should I listen to you?" And everything you say after "A veteran marathoner, author and speaker says...) becomes automatically believed.

As a wise copyman once said, "People will only buy if they believe in you, and your product."

Besides, the copy should flow like a conversation (especially if it is a personal story). And as you probably know (because you are a speaker), it´s very important to present yourself right from the start... if you want to have any chance of influencing people at all.

There are a few additional changes you can do to improve response (small changes in the bullets, and some "structural things" etc.). But time is running out, I´ve got work to do (oddly enough, my copy won´t write itself today either)...

Anyway. I hope this feedback was helpful to you. Good luck with this project!

Sincerely,

Sara - A fellow runner (half-marathoner) and direct response copywriter.

P.S. Sorry about my grammar, English is not my native language. However, I hope it was good enough to get the point across?

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

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rkat55 12 years ago

If I were you I would re-think your entire sales page. It's just too salesy.

Look, if you truly have a product that will help people win marathons, just say so.

Explain right up front what you can do for them that they aren't getting right now.

Use shorter, more direct sentences. Use bullet points.

Give some actual examples of what they are going to get so they can say "Ah hah!" and have them keep saying it.

Rather than tell some long boring story, use features and benefits, features and benefits, features and benefits.

If you're lucky enough to get qualified prospects to your sales page, don't bore them!

Give them what they want. Have them salivating to hit your order button. Long drawn out stories won't do that.

1. What do you have (features & benefits)
2. Who are you and why should i believe you
3. Why should I order right now and not later?
4. Make the guarantee as exciting as the sales letter.

don't give up until you have this 100% ready to grab your prospects by the throat and give them no choice but to buy now or wish forever that they did.
- Thanks
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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bankableResults

Can you see how these small changes helps your copy flow better (and builds credibility right at the beginning!)..?

Thanks for the actionable tips bankableResults. I'm rewriting the page today to implement these!

Thanks
1 reply

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Hugh Thyer

12 years ago

As a marathoner myself, I think you've kind of missed the mark in a few areas.

Because you know your prospect inside out, really talk to them about what's going on. Talk about getting up at 5am to get the run in before work. About people not understanding why you're doing it. About going out in the cold and the dark, when your leg first hits the pavement and it feels like jelly and you know you're in for another hour of feeling tired and crap.

And the guilt of missing days. Having gaps in your diary. And of weeks going by when you think you're going backwards and not forwards.

This is how you create rapport with your prospect.

Not sure this is the same training used by elite marathoners. I haven't seen the program but I'm not sure people even want the 160k+ weeks the elites do. What is the training wall anyway? Your headline needs to be done from scratch. Don't mention the pair of socks. People might be paying $5 a pair of socks so it really doesn't work when you hit them for almost $40. Besides, people aren't motivated by price here. It can get expensive running and if people wanted to save money they wouldn't do it in the first place.

Your big idea is buried way down. That's the bit where you can get better results for less training. That's what the whole thing is about. People still getting their target time while training less.

Or, if you've committed a certain amount of time to training you will now get better results. More efficient training. Slash minutes off your time without spending one more minute training.

There need to be photos of you crossing the finish line. You need to tell your story. What were your mistakes?

Your proof needs to include stories of people who came to you and what they achieved 12 months later. And lots of testimonials in the form of "I couldn't get under 4 hours. But I did Dereck's program and ran 3:40." etc etc. If you can get people excited about the results you get people they will buy. If they don't see all that proof they won't. And as often as you can, get photos of the people. Best of all, get photos of them crossing the finishing line.

Finally, you need to work a lot on your bullets. Grab some great bullets from some successful sales letters and model them.

What do people want to know? Probably injury management, more about their long run, race preparation, how to fuel yourself for training without having to give up the good stuff etc.

Good luck with it.

Hugh

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Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago

There's been some brilliant advice.

I would change the pre-head "Veteran Marathoner and Coach Reveals..."

Take out "veteran" - and be specific about the number of years you've been running.

Because people may assume you're only targeting the "senior market"

And not bother reading the rest.

Steve
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- Azarna 12 years ago
  
  OK, so you are "Dereck Johnson".
  
  So why is the photo named "Richard-Kimbal"?
  
  On this near identcal site the picture, and author of this product is indeed Richard Kimbal;
  
  http://www.marathontrainingschedule.net/
  
  So imho your credibillity is VERY suspect
  
  Thanks
  
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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

As a marathoner myself, I think you've kind of missed the mark in a few areas.

Because you know your prospect inside out, really talk to them about what's going on. Talk about getting up at 5am to get the run in before work. About people not understanding why you're doing it. About going out in the cold and the dark, when your leg first hits the pavement and it feels like jelly and you know you're in for another hour of feeling tired and crap.

And the guilt of missing days. Having gaps in your diary. And of weeks going by when you think you're going backwards and not forwards.

This is how you create rapport with your prospect.

Not sure this is the same training used by elite marathoners. I haven't seen the program but I'm not sure people even want the 160k+ weeks the elites do. What is the training wall anyway? Your headline needs to be done from scratch. Don't mention the pair of socks. People might be paying $5 a pair of socks so it really doesn't work when you hit them for almost $40. Besides, people aren't motivated by price here. It can get expensive running and if people wanted to save money they wouldn't do it in the first place.

Your big idea is buried way down. That's the bit where you can get better results for less training. That's what the whole thing is about. People still getting their target time while training less.

Or, if you've committed a certain amount of time to training you will now get better results. More efficient training. Slash minutes off your time without spending one more minute training.

There need to be photos of you crossing the finish line. You need to tell your story. What were your mistakes?

Your proof needs to include stories of people who came to you and what they achieved 12 months later. And lots of testimonials in the form of "I couldn't get under 4 hours. But I did Dereck's program and ran 3:40." etc etc. If you can get people excited about the results you get people they will buy. If they don't see all that proof they won't. And as often as you can, get photos of the people. Best of all, get photos of them crossing the finishing line.

Finally, you need to work a lot on your bullets. Grab some great bullets from some successful sales letters and model them.

What do people want to know? Probably injury management, more about their long run, race preparation, how to fuel yourself for training without having to give up the good stuff etc.

Good luck with it.

Hugh

Hugh - this is fantastic advice! I think you've really nailed it with the key motivational factors for prospects.

A lot for me to think about - thats for sure.

thanks

Thanks

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Micah Medina

12 years ago

Someone on this forum once said that "every product isn't a WSO"... and that statement echoed in my mind as I read your copy. I really think you can cut 40% of your copy, lower the hyperbole and storytelling, and really hammer the benefits of a professional plan.

And don't spend so much time attacking the free stuff. I think if someone cares about running enough to do a marathon, they don't have to be convinced too much about the value of a professional, useful plan.

I bet this product would go great with some sort of app.

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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Micah Medina

Someone on this forum once said that "every product isn't a WSO"... and that statement echoed in my mind as I read your copy. I really think you can cut 40% of your copy, lower the hyperbole and storytelling, and really hammer the benefits of a professional plan.

And don't spend so much time attacking the free stuff. I think if someone cares about running enough to do a marathon, they don't have to be convinced too much about the value of a professional, useful plan.

I bet this product would go great with some sort of app.

Thanks Micah, I'll bear this in mind and test this as a different sales page style.

Thanks

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bonito

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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copynewbie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bonito

is not bad, but let me tell you...
you're forcing people to read a lot! that means less sales
youre not givin' a reason to buy your product
and adding a favicon will help!
also the buy now button is good... but it doesnt redirects to your paypal button!'
regards,

I'm still a copy newbie but I don't agree with you on that point. A longer sales message doesn't equate to fewer sales.

In my newbie opinion

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1 reply

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nashienet 12 years ago

Hi,

I agree with you about long copy, and your goal should be to cover your sales points and keep it interesting. John Caples advised to write long copy and then 'boil it down', so write long and then be a ruthless editor and throw away sentences that are too long, cut out anything that doesn't work. I think this needs to be boiled down a little bit.

I think the headline could do with a tweak. Using the word 'less' twice in the same headline reads a little awkwardly, and I don't think it's quite as clear as you could make it. Perhaps add the word price to make the meaning absolutely clear. Perhaps - 'How you can finish your marathon with less training, all for the price of a pair of shorts'

You're probably going to do this anyway, but draft a lot of different headlines and then run a multivariate test using google website optimizer. If you've never tried this before, you'll be amazed at the difference a good headline makes.

There are a few sentences that read a little awkwardly. Things like "If you've got your heart set on crossing that marathon finish line still running," - I'd take out that 'still running' bit. In fact, that opening sentence is too long, which makes it difficult to remember how it started.

You're right to use testimonials, but I think the first batch appear too early. When I was reading it I wanted to know more about how it worked before wanting the reassurance of testimonials- but if in doubt, split test that.

I'd be interested in seeing your revisions, and hearing how it performs for you.
- Thanks
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Is this the Worst Sales Page ever written?

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