Critique My Copy and Get My Program Free

by derekd
39 replies
Hey everyone, I'm about to release my program "Excuse Proof Fitness" to the general public in the coming month or so. It is a health and fitness course mixed with a lot of elements of personal development, advanced psychology, behavior modification, practical strategies for those with limited time, money, etc. It's useful for anyone whether they are looking to get into better shape or already in good shape and want strategies to make staying in shape easier.

I've written a video sales script that I'd like reviewed and advice on how I can make it even better.

The link is for a .doc or .pdf and not the sales page itself as the sales page will be a video with text and voice-over once complete.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/excuseproof/EPSalesComplete.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/excuseproof/EPSalesComplete.doc

In exchange for a critique and advice, I will send you to a download page where you can download my entire course (20+ mp3s, 350pg ebook, essentials guide, quickstart guide, resources guide, etc.) for FREE! Send me a private message for link.

Also, a suggested retail price for this stuff would be great after you take a look at it. I figure the ebook will sell for $39-$47 dollars, full program for 97-147 ish (more?) or whatever.

You can see what I've done very informally for my family and friends at:
Offer | Excuse Proof Fitness

If someone simply wants to give a quick first impression without actually reading it all through, then I can send you the link to the quickstart guide and audios as compensation.

Thanks!
#copy #critique #free #program
  • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
    You have a lot of work to do my man...

    First off, the first 3 paragraphs... there's no big promise. No hook. If you don't grab people right away, they're gone.

    Then you go on to say you're gonna be real and tell the truth. That in essence, is the problem with your whole script. People don't want to hear that. Regardless of what they say, they want the magic pill, the quick fix.

    The absolute worse thing you can talk about in a weight loss sales letter is mindset. In the product? Sure. But in the salesletter anything beyond a bullet or two is ill advised.

    Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product. Think P90X, nutrisystem ...etc.

    I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but the market simply is. It's non negotiable. The trick is matching what the market wants with what you ethically feel comfortable selling. It is possible to strike that balance but you're way too far on the side of reality right now.

    Good luck
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post

      You have a lot of work to do my man...

      First off, the first 3 paragraphs... there's no big promise. No hook. If you don't grab people right away, they're gone.

      Then you go on to say you're gonna be real and tell the truth. That in essence, is the problem with your whole script. People don't want to hear that. Regardless of what they say, they want the magic pill, the quick fix.

      The absolute worse thing you can talk about in a weight loss sales letter is mindset. In the product? Sure. But in the salesletter anything beyond a bullet or two is ill advised.

      Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product. Think P90X, nutrisystem ...etc.

      I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but the market simply is. It's non negotiable. The trick is matching what the market wants with what you ethically feel comfortable selling. It is possible to strike that balance but you're way too far on the side of reality right now.

      Good luck
      Thanks Robert, that's some good advice.

      The question is, how do I balance integrity and keeping it real with marketing? I don't want to shun conventional marketing, but I'm not going to be another person selling a "magic bullet" even if that's what people want. I'd take my integrity over more sales any day. I'd rather give people a kick in the ass and MAKE them think rather than cater to their laziness.

      Will I lose some sales? yes. Am I more interested in the few that "get it" than the millions that don't? yes.

      I believe when people hear the truth they know it. So I do want to convey that it can be "easy" to some degree (what people want to hear ala conventional marketing) with the fact that this isn't just another fitness program like all the others. So there's a delicate balance I'm trying to find between being sellable and not being just about the sale.

      I'm here to educate first, sell later. Be real, and then if people want a "quick fix" they're not my target market. My niche are people are can handle the truth and want to get their crap together, not the people looking for something to fix their problems for them without them doing the work. I'll let them waste their money on all the other BS health and fitness products out there.

      I'm interested in getting people results, not selling the maximum number of products.

      Any suggestions as to what to research for other programs/sales copy taking a similar approach?

      It seems like Dan Kennedy has some good stuff combining quality sales with a keep it real approach.
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      • Profile picture of the author cwilliams6009
        Originally Posted by derekd View Post


        The question is, how do I balance integrity and keeping it real with marketing?
        Oh jeez. You guys hit the nail on the nose with this one. Robert's advice is killer: "Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product" -- he's talking about what IS, not what we wish it were.

        But, I just spent 2 weeks cooking up a truly awesome squeeze page/offer, then dismantled it for my more natural "keep it real" style. Part of it is integrity, for sure -- part is reputation - part is just "squeamishness" about aggressive marketing which I am going to have to outgrow.

        Question: Is it possible to make money on the internet without the squeezepage/get-a-list-at-all-costs approach?

        BTW I so don't mean to offend anyone or their style! Trying to find a balance between Robert's style and Dereks's style.
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        • Profile picture of the author derekd
          Originally Posted by cwilliams6009 View Post

          Oh jeez. You guys hit the nail on the nose with this one. Robert's advice is killer: "Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product" -- he's talking about what IS, not what we wish it were.

          But, I just spent 2 weeks cooking up a truly awesome squeeze page/offer, then dismantled it for my more natural "keep it real" style. Part of it is integrity, for sure -- part is reputation - part is just "squeamishness" about aggressive marketing which I am going to have to outgrow.

          Question: Is it possible to make money on the internet without the squeezepage/get-a-list-at-all-costs approach?

          BTW I so don't mean to offend anyone or their style! Trying to find a balance between Robert's style and Dereks's style.
          I hate to sound like I'm ignoring conventional widsom as if I "know better" or am "holier than thou." I think the big picture idea is that I'm ultimately selling myself, and in reality selling individual's on THEMSELVES more than just a program.

          Sure the program is part of it, and there's a science to sales that isn't to be ignored. But I believe that in today's world, people are more concerned about finding a reputable person who they know they can trust than going from one fad to gimick to scheme after another deep down inside knowing none of them are going to fix their problems.

          "Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product"

          Wanting a system or package is great, but not wanting to think isn't. I'm here to wake people the eff up. A lot of people won't like it. But it's like the people you know in your life that are brutally honest. They aren't always the most liked or say the most popular things, but there's an element of trust there you can't find anywhere else.

          I'm all about the middle ground for me. So I won't cut back on my "reality," but I could perhaps balance it with a little more "selling" so to speak on highlighting the things that make people really want so they check it out and buy.

          I also think I have the type of product that lends itself more towards an on-going promotion via videos, newsletters, articles, etc. that eventually leads to a sale after establishing myself as an expert more than just hoping to pop off a few quick sales from an ebook and mp3 course.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by derekd View Post

        I'm here to educate first, sell later. Be real, and then if people want a "quick fix" they're not my target market. My niche are people are can handle the truth and want to get their crap together, not the people looking for something to fix their problems for them without them doing the work. I'll let them waste their money on all the other BS health and fitness products out there.

        I'm interested in getting people results, not selling the maximum number of products.
        Seems strange to me that you ask advice of copywriters who are
        trained on how to sell stuff and then say that you don't want
        to sell a lot of stuff. I would suggest that you continue in the
        path that you are going and you'll reach your goal.

        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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        • Profile picture of the author derekd
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          Seems strange to me that you ask advice of copywriters who are
          trained on how to sell stuff and then say that you don't want
          to sell a lot of stuff. I would suggest that you continue in the
          path that you are going and you'll reach your goal.

          -Ray Edwards
          I thought I was pretty clear and other people seemed to have gotten my point, but I will clarify in my next post what I should have mentioned from the start which is my target market, overall vision, etc.

          I, at no point, said "I don't want to sell a lot of stuff" and I find it funny how people can't seem to ever read deeply, think, and extract someone's true point.

          Not selling the maximum amount of something doesn't mean I don't want to sell or reach a lot of people. It means that it's not ONLY about JUST selling the most products AT ALL COSTS.

          To some limited thinking marketers and copywriters, it's a numbers game to maximize sales and conversions. The end is the sale.

          To me, the sale is the beginning, not the end. The point is to help other people, and selling is just a first step in the process. The reason I ask for sales advice is because people need to buy my product to benefit from it, but that is not the end goal.

          If I change my message to reach more people, but do so in a way as to end up losing out on the very people I'm trying to reach, then I may improve sales, but I've lost touch with the BIG PICTURE which is helping others.

          As others on the post have constructively suggested, means of doing this can be more big picture marketing strategies like blogging, teleseminars, webinars, and a lot of free content which I plan on doing all of these.

          I'm interested not just in quantity of sales, but quality. I'd rather reach the "right" 1000 people who will be inspired by what I have and use it to really change their lives rather than sell a million products to
          people who will never use it. The former is why I do this, the latter is not.

          If I help people, I've reached my goal. If I haven't, no matter how many
          sales I make, I've failed.

          I do not define myself as a marketer, copywriter, salesman, content creator, etc.

          I'm a human being who loves and serves other human beings that USES marketing, copywriting, selling, creating, and the like as tools and means to help me achieve this much bigger goal.

          The biggest problem I see, and the very thing I'm setting myself against are people, particularly unscrupulous marketers mistaking the means with the goal.

          So yes, if I continue on my course I will reach my goal of actually helping other people which may or may not include selling the most amount of products at all costs. Of course, since I believe in "balance," I think I can have my cake and eat it too which means selling a lot of products to a lot of the right people who will all benefit.

          My point though is that I will not compromise the end goal to get a short term boost in sales.

          Anyone reading this is free to help by offering "constructive" critique which I love to hear (the last thing I want to be is a guy asking for help and then acts like a "know it all" who doesn't take advice) or you can keep your "sell at all costs" approach to marketing for the millions of other people and products that are fine with that approach, I'm not.
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          • Profile picture of the author Raydal
            Originally Posted by derekd View Post


            If I help people, I've reached my goal. If I haven't, no matter how many
            sales I make, I've failed.
            EXCEPT that in order to help people you have to sell them
            on the idea that they need help.

            I resonate with your idealism, but human nature will definitely
            get in your way.

            -Ray Edwards
            Signature
            The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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            • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
              First off, I won't tell you to change "excuse proof fitness" just yet, because there are other elements that matter here. If you had a 5 minute expose on an overweight celebrity losing 100 lbs with an "excuse killer" (Whatever that is) but none the less, your "Mechanism" and it went viral, well.. you might sell some. But if you named it "fitin30" like others were saying, your conversions might be higher and you NEED to think like this. Make sure everything is super 10-10-10 SICK!

              be ready for WAR!!!

              But check this out..

              The ad agency #1 on CB guy and my favorite Nazi in this thread should not be ignored. Even if you are giving this out for free, why not have a high opt in rate. Why not touch on the things that people are specifically looking for? You can be 100% ethical and "keep it real" but dont be afraid to confront whoever is reading this with the truth that they will probably die of a heart attack at 60 years old when they could have lived to 100. That's 40 years! Why would you give up 40 years of your life, eating good, and enjoying your exercise routine?

              Perhaps tell the story of two people.. Sam and Bob. Bob takes your thing, Sam doesn't.

              Sam has a stroke and his brain explodes a little. He lives the next 20 years in a wheelchair.

              Bob has three hot girlfriends and can bench press 200 lbs 10 times in a row.

              But here's the thing..

              I read the first couple paragraphs, then started to skim through the rest of it, because this line was a FAIL for me:

              "because I see so many people struggling to be healthy and fit"

              1. That is a very vague statement
              2. People kinda know how to get healthy and fit
              3. People can get that info for free. (If they are that retarded to begin with)

              The whole concept is luke warm, without real excitement.

              There is a real lack of a specific problem, fear, statistic, goals, and INTRO!!!

              I was kinda interested to see your call to action so I jumped to the bottom. I had asked myself, "I wonder if this dude used a traditional call to action"..

              No call to action! You don't want to sell, so if you don't change it, affiliates are out.

              I hope you are doing it for philanthropy purposes. (I know Im an idiot but you get my point I hope)

              I mean, this really is a piece that you are going to promote on your own right? I hope you are not going to pester established fitness vendors and CB'ers with a launch date if you don't follow the competitive format.

              I personally HATE getting JV invites from people who re-invent the wheel, think they know how to write copy and then leave the market after it flops.

              But anyway, back to my impression of it..

              I knew right away that the copy in that first paragraph was kinda weak.

              Even if that first paragraph was just an article on Goarticles I estimate a very weak follow through and low click through rate. Why do that to yourself?

              It's up to you whether or not how you want to conduct your business but Im telling you right now, unless you put 5-6 hardcore super produced visuals, before & after pics, an amazingly visually stunning intro before your "Hello Im Derek" intro, your affiliates will be very mad at you.

              If you give it out for free and spend a ton of money on SEO or something, there will be alot of wasted traffic.

              But heck, keep the lame name, do the crazy intro, over compensate for the fact the copy doesnt touch on things you are afraid of confronting the consumer with, and you'll be better off than if you have just a white background and black letters "Hi, Im Derek" in helvetica.

              Compensate for your luke warm stuff. Have some insane billing structure, cool gimmicks on the page, something that your competition doesnt have.

              If you want to sell, you have to sell, it IS about giving value first, you are right about that. But you also have to interest people! LOL

              If you want to give something out for free, you will have to pay for it yourself which is expensive, but you should still make sure you hook them in man.. remember the statistics. 90% of people will probably leave after the first 3 seconds with any page. Keep those 10% there and sell them or get them to opt in. They won't even opt in with it the way it is. Take that first paragraph and turn their world upside down in those first three sentences.

              P.S: Why don't you violently bash your competition in the "This isn't a magic pill" part?
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              • Profile picture of the author derekd
                Originally Posted by Jamie Lewis View Post

                First off, I won't tell you to change "excuse proof fitness" just yet, because there are other elements that matter here. If you had a 5 minute expose on an overweight celebrity losing 100 lbs with an "excuse killer" (Whatever that is) but none the less, your "Mechanism" and it went viral, well.. you might sell some. But if you named it "fitin30" like others were saying, your conversions might be higher and you NEED to think like this. Make sure everything is super 10-10-10 SICK!

                be ready for WAR!!!

                But check this out..

                The ad agency #1 on CB guy and my favorite Nazi in this thread should not be ignored. Even if you are giving this out for free, why not have a high opt in rate. Why not touch on the things that people are specifically looking for? You can be 100% ethical and "keep it real" but dont be afraid to confront whoever is reading this with the truth that they will probably die of a heart attack at 60 years old when they could have lived to 100. That's 40 years! Why would you give up 40 years of your life, eating good, and enjoying your exercise routine?

                Perhaps tell the story of two people.. Sam and Bob. Bob takes your thing, Sam doesn't.

                Sam has a stroke and his brain explodes a little. He lives the next 20 years in a wheelchair.

                Bob has three hot girlfriends and can bench press 200 lbs 10 times in a row.

                But here's the thing..

                I read the first couple paragraphs, then started to skim through the rest of it, because this line was a FAIL for me:

                "because I see so many people struggling to be healthy and fit"

                1. That is a very vague statement
                2. People kinda know how to get healthy and fit
                3. People can get that info for free. (If they are that retarded to begin with)

                The whole concept is luke warm, without real excitement.

                There is a real lack of a specific problem, fear, statistic, goals, and INTRO!!!

                I was kinda interested to see your call to action so I jumped to the bottom. I had asked myself, "I wonder if this dude used a traditional call to action"..

                No call to action! You don't want to sell, so if you don't change it, affiliates are out.

                I hope you are doing it for philanthropy purposes. (I know Im an idiot but you get my point I hope)

                I mean, this really is a piece that you are going to promote on your own right? I hope you are not going to pester established fitness vendors and CB'ers with a launch date if you don't follow the competitive format.

                I personally HATE getting JV invites from people who re-invent the wheel, think they know how to write copy and then leave the market after it flops.

                But anyway, back to my impression of it..

                I knew right away that the copy in that first paragraph was kinda weak.

                Even if that first paragraph was just an article on Goarticles I estimate a very weak follow through and low click through rate. Why do that to yourself?

                It's up to you whether or not how you want to conduct your business but Im telling you right now, unless you put 5-6 hardcore super produced visuals, before & after pics, an amazingly visually stunning intro before your "Hello Im Derek" intro, your affiliates will be very mad at you.

                If you give it out for free and spend a ton of money on SEO or something, there will be alot of wasted traffic.

                But heck, keep the lame name, do the crazy intro, over compensate for the fact the copy doesnt touch on things you are afraid of confronting the consumer with, and you'll be better off than if you have just a white background and black letters "Hi, Im Derek" in helvetica.

                Compensate for your luke warm stuff. Have some insane billing structure, cool gimmicks on the page, something that your competition doesnt have.

                If you want to sell, you have to sell, it IS about giving value first, you are right about that. But you also have to interest people! LOL

                If you want to give something out for free, you will have to pay for it yourself which is expensive, but you should still make sure you hook them in man.. remember the statistics. 90% of people will probably leave after the first 3 seconds with any page. Keep those 10% there and sell them or get them to opt in. They won't even opt in with it the way it is. Take that first paragraph and turn their world upside down in those first three sentences.

                P.S: Why don't you violently bash your competition in the "This isn't a magic pill" part?
                Jamie, thank you! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. You addressed all the things I was concerned with (the intro not being strong enough, areas to improve, hooks, call to action) and actually gave examples and ways to change this.

                Your post is why I put this on here long before this product goes to the general public or affiliates.

                I can't PM due to less than 50 posts, but send an email to info@excuseproof.com and same goes to anyone else posting here and I can send you the program or portions as compensation for your help.

                1. What do people think of the headlines I posted a couple posts back?

                2. I've been playing around with the story idea myself. I'm less interested in the long term consequences (I get it, pain sells, but I'm looking to reach an audience that may be younger and less concerned about things like heart attacks and more concerned with short term consequences) and interested in showing how people get in shape without having to spend a lot of time, money, and energy/stress to do so.

                So, for example, telling a story two people (college students?) who have little time, money, and motivation and how one gets fit despite all of this using my strategies and the other person gets out of shape and their life sucks.

                My vision is that what stops most people is their perceived circumstances and lack of "motivation" for lack of better word.

                3. Another selling point that I'm trying to emphasize is the issue of how so many people lose weight, and then gain it all back. So how do I emphasize that even if someone follows another weight loss program, they may gain all that weight back if they don't know what I teach? Story? Bashing the traditional approaches?

                4. This video is structured a bit like the other videos I modeled where they are educational first, sell a product second. So how can I make it educational where people want to stick around and get useful information, and then if they like what I'm all about and trust me they buy the product. I'm here to teach first, sell second. You already mentioned some good ideas, any suggestions from others?

                Thanks again, this was a really helpful post!
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

              EXCEPT that in order to help people you have to sell them
              on the idea that they need help.

              I resonate with your idealism, but human nature will definitely
              get in your way.

              -Ray Edwards
              Not necessarily Ray. I disagree with your above sentiments. Thought he explained his position very well. Perfectly clearly in fact.

              What I believe Derek is saying is that it's more important for him to offer something which starts off a long term relationship based on trust and mutual respect, not simply making sales just for the sake of it.

              This trust relationship will be worth a lot more to Derek in the long term over just making sales willy nilly. It's not what he's about. It's nothing to do with an idealistic point of view. In fact, I think it's a very realistic point of view / position.

              Please feel welcome to correct me if I'm off base Derek.


              Mark Andrews
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              • Profile picture of the author Raydal
                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Not necessarily Ray. I disagree with your above sentiments. Thought he explained his position very well. Perfectly clearly in fact.

                What I believe Derek is saying is that it's more important for him to offer something which starts off a long term relationship based on trust and mutual respect, not simply making sales just for the sake of it.

                This trust relationship will be worth a lot more to Derek in the long term over just making sales willy nilly. It's not what he's about. It's nothing to do with an idealistic point of view. In fact, I think it's a very realistic point of view / position.

                Please feel welcome to correct me if I'm off base Derek.


                Mark Andrews
                Mark,

                The point I'm trying to make here may best be explained in an
                article I wrote called Marketing to Sinners:

                What people say can often be miles apart from what people do. We
                are hypocrites in one way or the other. There is the ‘ideal’ and
                there is the practiced and never the twain shall meet in this
                life.

                So who is your marketing targeted to? Do you really know your
                target market? Are you picturing them how you want them to be?
                How you wished them to be? Or how they really are?

                Let me explain.

                I often wish that people would know anything that is worth
                getting is worth exerting some effort to gain. But often what
                sells is the “get rich quick by doing nothing” products.

                I wish that people would want to buy integrity but no they prefer
                success.

                I wish that people would be more self-disciplined but they are
                more self-indulgent instead.

                I wish that people were more self-reliant but no they prefer
                dependence.

                You see, all the ‘ideals’ I may have in my head about my target
                can be very far from the truth. You’d be surprised to know that
                surveys show that while people SAY they will prefer to hear more
                positive stories on the news rather than all the disaster, crime,
                war and economic downturn, ratings are higher for the ‘bad’ news
                than the ‘good’ news.

                I told you what people say don’t generally match what they do!

                I once read how the audience of the Howard Stern show, known for
                its un-sacredness, consists of twice as many listeners who HATE
                the show as who love the show. When asked why they listen if they
                hated the show these people commented that they didn’t want to
                miss the outrageous thing Howard would say next!

                Perhaps you’ll be surprised to know of the millions of ‘closet
                readers’ of the gossip and tabloid magazines—there’s just no
                other way to explain their wide circulation. Most people who read
                the tabloids would want people to THINK that they read the
                ‘respectable’ magazines instead.

                As the copywriter and marketer if you don’t consider these trends
                when you are framing your appeal then you are missing the boat.

                I’ve often read many complaints from product owners who are
                simply frustrated that their products are not selling when their
                products “do A, B, C, D”. They know their products provide value
                to their markets but they are not selling to prospects but to
                themselves. Read that again. As a product owner you can end up
                selling the product to yourself because you are not considering
                the REAL prospect but how you want the prospect to be—just like
                you!

                How much are you really in touch with ‘people”? I mean real
                breathing, living people because these are the people who would
                buy your products and services. Do you have an ideal picture that
                is far removed from reality?

                Although you may not want to admit it, people are lazy, want easy
                success, ostentatious, lack integrity, make quick decisions,
                dependent, restless and ostentatious. This may not be the way you
                WANT them to be, but this is the reality you have to deal with.

                Discuss ‘people’ and most people would not want to be classed as
                such but it’s the human story, and the quicker you learn this
                fact as a marketer the better it will be for you.

                Often I have seen products of lesser value than mines being sold
                for higher prices and I’m often left dumbfounded. But when I
                investigated the matter further I realize that I have too high a
                view of people. My wife often complain that I am too naïve and
                people will easily walk over me. But my nature is to see the best
                in every man. I often see people as I want them to be, instead of
                what they are. This may be a great trait to have in another
                field, but in marketing it can lead to your demise.

                Because the quicker you can understand human nature for what it
                IS instead of what you WANT it to be, the quicker you’ll be able
                to reach people. It’s simple: in order to take people where you
                want them to go you must understand the journey they are already
                on.

                Why do people always fall for SCAMS and con-men? Because these
                thieves sell to human nature and not what they idealize their
                victims to be. These scumbags understand human nature and sell to
                human nature, not to sinless angels.

                So, what about you? Are you marketing to sinners or to saints?

                -Ray Edwards

                Signature
                The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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                • Profile picture of the author derekd
                  Originally Posted by Raydal View Post


                  What people say can often be miles apart from what people do. We
                  are hypocrites in one way or the other. There is the 'ideal' and
                  there is the practiced and never the twain shall meet in this
                  life.



                  Ray, I completely agree with the idea that what people say and do are two different thing. I do not wish to ignore human nature, what sells, what get results vs. what "should" get results. I've studied copywrite and influence/persuasian for these very reasons, although I am certainly still a novice student.

                  My purpose is not to be purely "idealistic." I do believe to some degree the sales letter should sell first and foremost, and the product itself should do the majority of the "teaching" and "inspiring" and "hitting with the truth."

                  But, like all things in life, I believe there is a balance. I believe I can position myself as the antithesis to the "hype pushers" out there and be the guy that gives it to people straight, BUT can let them know they can get results easier, faster, with less money wasted etc. as per traditional marketing and selling approaches.

                  It's not my way or the highway, but rather how I reach a target that WILL be sold on big promises (that I can actually deliever), and actually make those promises without resorting to "any means necessary" for a quick sale that reaches the wrong people.

                  I'm very much considering that the people I want to reach want an easy program, but they also are skeptical of "too good to be true" type of pitches and are the type of people who intuitively know that it takes a bit of work. I know other marketers have successfully used this approach (stating this things like "this isn't another get rich quick program, you have to actually do work) and I modeled them with my own copy, although I certainly can do a better job of it.

                  I summarize with my go-to word, it's all about "balance."
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              • Profile picture of the author derekd
                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Not necessarily Ray. I disagree with your above sentiments. Thought he explained his position very well. Perfectly clearly in fact.

                What I believe Derek is saying is that it's more important for him to offer something which starts off a long term relationship based on trust and mutual respect, not simply making sales just for the sake of it.

                This trust relationship will be worth a lot more to Derek in the long term over just making sales willy nilly. It's not what he's about. It's nothing to do with an idealistic point of view. In fact, I think it's a very realistic point of view / position.

                Please feel welcome to correct me if I'm off base Derek.


                Mark Andrews
                Mark, you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't have said it better myself.

                Think of it this way, it's less about the product or sale itself. It's more about the theme, the idea, the vision of a trusted authority, and a trusted brand that people know they can go to when they have challenges that need unique solutions.

                It's also a lot more personal development based. Books dealing with mindset, goal setting, "no more excuses" motivational type of stuff are all popular and has a large market.

                Health and fitness has a large market.

                Why not combine the two?

                Will I lose out on some of the potential fitness customers for "30 day six pack" type programs, yes.

                Will I lose out on some of the personal development customers for "unstoppable motivation" type programs, yes.

                Will I (with the right strategy) reach some people who wouldn't normally go for a personal development program OR the traditional fitness stuff? well that is the plan. And it requires a long term approach and I'm willing to put in the work to make it happen.

                As far as "Excuse Proof Fitness," I totally get the name ITSELF doesn't sell. That was why I used the example of p90x. People see the program and the concept first, and want to buy before knowing the name. The name fits the program but no one goes "Gee, here's some fitness program called p90x. that totally sounds like something i want to buy"

                With this, they learn first that "oh, here's a guy that has answers for all my problems like the fact that I don't have enough time, not enough money, I don't have the energy, etc. and he's got solutions for all of it.

                Does "excuse proof" capture that idea, I think so. I also want to brand "excuse proof" as a personal development company that has multiple products that deals with helping people overcome all the various and sundry obstacles to success in any field.

                But, I will never claim to be smarter than the highly successful marketers here so if it's a weak name, that may be the case (the name was changed multiple times) and I won't argue it's a strong selling name. However, until someone has something stronger than that for what I'm going for, it's sticking though since it "feels right" to me. My intuition has led me further along than following even the most trusted and knowledgable advice from others, so it's not me saying what others are saying is wrong, they are absolutely right, but just not right "for me."
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            • Profile picture of the author derekd
              Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

              EXCEPT that in order to help people you have to sell them
              on the idea that they need help.

              I resonate with your idealism, but human nature will definitely
              get in your way.

              -Ray Edwards
              You're totally right. That's why I wanted to make it a point to mention balance. It's about sales, but not sales at all costs. I want to not just reach people, but reach the right type of people for what I have to offer.

              I'm willing to forgo maximum amounts of sales for reaching people turned off by some of the fadish and "gimicky" fitness products out there, but that still needs to be balanced with a certain amount of mass appeal.

              As a musician, I go back to the example of making a pop album vs. hard rock album that is popular. A hard rock album will rarely reach the mainstreem audience, so if sales was what it was all about then all musicians should only strive to write cookie-cutter pop music, but hard rock has it's own niche and target audience that wouldn't care for pop music.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post


      First off, the first 3 paragraphs... there's no big promise. No hook. If you don't grab people right away, they're gone.
      The hook is the idea that people haven't been given the real truth, is there a better way to convey this? The idea was to create curiosity as to what they haven't been told about. So any suggestions to improve this would be appreciated.

      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post


      Then you go on to say you're gonna be real and tell the truth. That in essence, is the problem with your whole script. People don't want to hear that. Regardless of what they say, they want the magic pill, the quick fix.
      I totally get this. I eventually come around to say they can "have their cake and eat it too" so to speak, but first I need to be real with them.

      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post

      The absolute worse thing you can talk about in a weight loss sales letter is mindset. In the product? Sure. But in the salesletter anything beyond a bullet or two is ill advised.
      This isn't just a sales letter. It's an educational piece with a sales component in the end. I'm most interested in helping and serving others. Those who are serious will want to purchase. This is where I need conventional marketing advice, but the entire piece is not by any means conventional marketing or sales.

      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post


      Remember, people do not want to think. They'll do anything to avoid thinking. They want a system. The package. The finished product. Think P90X, nutrisystem ...etc.
      This is an A-Z step-by-step program, so could I be more clear in some way about that in the end. I feel like my sales/education copy gets a little uninspiring towards the end with the product itself.

      P90X I believe is successful because they promote "hard" and "intense" workouts. They don't make it look easy, and I think that's why people like them. They have an edge and an attitude, that is partly what I'm going for.

      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post


      I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but the market simply is. It's non negotiable. The trick is matching what the market wants with what you ethically feel comfortable selling. It is possible to strike that balance but you're way too far on the side of reality right now.
      This is exactly the advice I'd expect to hear from marketers. Not to be arrogant, but what I'm doing isn't like most products out there. I'd rather create a following that "gets it" than compromise my integrity by trying to sell a product rather than an individual.

      The health and fitness field is strong, and the personal development field is strong. Many people are looking to get better at improving themselves emotionally, psychologically, mentally, in addition to physically. It may be a challenge, but I know there's a way to combine these two areas successfully.

      Thanks for the help Robert. Please send me a private message in order to get the quickstart mp3s and pdf. Any more help and I'll be glad to send the full program. Keep it coming guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
    Hey Derek,

    Everything you've written here says to me you should be focusing on content marketing, on building your own tribe, your own fan base that'll buy whatever you put out because they KNOW it'll be good.

    There's more passion in a few of your sentences here than in your entire sales pitch.

    You want to channel that passion straight into your content. Let your readers know you're the real deal and that you care about them and want to help them.

    So instead of re-writing your script over and over again, I'd re-design your blog, brand yourself, then get your message out there.
    Signature

    Andrew Gould

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

      Hey Derek,

      Everything you've written here says to me you should be focusing on content marketing, on building your own tribe, your own fan base that'll buy whatever you put out because they KNOW it'll be good.

      There's more passion in a few of your sentences here than in your entire sales pitch.

      You want to channel that passion straight into your content. Let your readers know you're the real deal and that you care about them and want to help them.

      So instead of re-writing your script over and over again, I'd re-design your blog, brand yourself, then get your message out there.
      Superb advice Andrew and I hear you Derek.

      In fact, I have a very similar client to you at the moment and it's refreshing to work with him. He too wishes to strike this balance to maintain his credibility / believability / trust in the marketplace. Why?

      Because he's a 100% genuine honest character. He'd rather forego a few sales than make empty big promises telling others this is their magic pill to freedom. I like his attitude and I like yours too.

      Take what Andrew said above to heart. He made a very good point.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author Grain
        I like what you have to say, and I hope you'll
        keep that philosophy till the very end.

        You can try blogging and web 2.0 interfaces
        to spread your expertise.

        If you can find an already existing and slightly
        overlapping product in your niche, go on and
        offer an interview free of charge to the vendor.

        Free content in exchange for branding is not
        a bad thing at all.

        Not only that - you can also ask for a
        testimonial from this trusted expert.

        2 birds with a stone.

        But wait - you can continue to strike up deals
        with the other vendor. Guest blog, continuity,
        JVs, list swaps...

        6 birds with a stone.

        Let's not forget the last one. If you really get a
        great partner to work with, you can even use
        his name (with permission) as a proof factor.

        That's 7 birds with a stone. Even a world-class
        archer can't do that.

        Want instant credibility?

        Write a book. Get on public media.

        I mean, if you're a public figure, you're famous. If
        you've written a book, you're damn famous.

        If you're damn famous, people trust you. People
        trust you, so I trust you.

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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    first... no one wants excuse proof fitness....

    and... no one wants fitness

    you need a hook, a name that gives the user what they want.

    ie. sixpackshortcuts, 4 min abs, fatburning furnace, truth about abs, diet solution....

    are you seeing where i'm going with this?

    they are SPECIFIC solutions to a problem.
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Thanks guys. I only have about 5 minutes so I'll address some of these points later.

      Really quick, I wanted to say up to know I've been focusing on building my brand name, creating content, posting videos, and spreading the word and show you the type of videos that I'm doing.

      So getting this copy done is really just one small thing in numerous things i've done.

      Our marketing is going to focus on being funny/education like in this video...


      As far as no one wanting "Excuse Proof Fitness," I disagree. First of all
      stating "no one" anything is total bull, I'm gonna that out as nonsense although I appreciate your point and agree to a certain extent about what captures peoples attention.

      Second, we understand this is a bit more niche than the gimicky stuff out there, so I KNOW SOME people will NOT want this. I get it! That's cool, I'm not trying to appeal to everyone. The people that see what it's about will like it.

      Why is it called "Excuse Proof?" because we destroy excuses like "I don't have enough time" with this following video.

      http://youtu.be/SpaQ42poKKo

      Plus it's "tough" sounding.

      PS: Do you think "P90x" is successful because of it's name, or that it makes things like easy? No, people see it and they "get it" I believe the same will be done here, now I just need to convert our image and message to sales copy.

      I'll check my private messages later, thanks guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    I don't even know why you ask for advice with your defensive posts.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      I don't even know why you ask for advice with your defensive posts.
      These posts are not meant to be defensive, but rather clarifying my overall purpose.

      Selling is a means to help others, but my ultimate goal is to reach the RIGHT people, not ALL people. So advice that is focused on maximizing sales may or may not be relevant. Advice on maximizing sales to the target that I'm going after is, so I will do what I should have done, and post a more in depth clarification on my big picture intention.

      Other people have offered great advice on how to spread my message in a way that is in line with my vision, other people suggest changing my vision which kind of defeats the point for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author derekd
        Thank you to Grain, Mark, and Andrew who all "get it" and offer constructive advice.

        I don't wish to be defensive, so I take responsibility for not doing what I see I should have done earlier and state my vision, target market, etc.

        1. ESTABLISH CREDIBILITY

        If you know people in your life that "keep it real" and give you the truth, you know they cannot be replaced. They are not always the most liked, but they are respected.

        I'm interested in establishing myself, message, and product as a "no BS" approach to what really works.

        Since I see so much stuff that turns me off in the health and fitness world, I'm going to set myself apart which is how I am in person. Loving, but honest.

        I have a good friend and the co-creator of this that is highly skeptical of anything that sounds "salesy" "gimicky" "fadish" or the like. He would be turned off by most marketing approaches, but he came to me for advice because he trusted me, and knew I knew my stuff.

        He lost 60 pounds in several months of my personal training and got a ripped 6 pack. He NEVER would have bought or gone to someone using the standard "instant 30 second abs" type of stuff because as soon as someone says something is "quick, easy, effortless" his red flags go up.

        I'm trying to appeal to those types of people who would not respond to traditional hype fitness marketing. I'd rather reach a few like him that get results and want a no-hype approach than reach millions that are looking for the "easy-button" solution but aren't willing to do the work.

        These could be people that either don't buy into "hype" or they've been burned in the past and want something different.

        Of course, I believe this can be balanced.

        Niche market can be balanced with broad appeal
        Quality sales can be balanced with quantity
        Hard truth can be mixed with pleasant promises (you can be tactful with the truth)

        I'm interested in setting myself apart from many of the other health and fitness programs that, although some are really good, I personally feel like puking when I see or read their sales and marketing approach and I know I'm not the only one.

        Still...

        I am TOTALLY OPEN to conventional marketing approachs like:

        Don't have enough time...
        Don't have enough money...
        Don't have enough willpower...

        None of that matters because blah blah blah....

        This is completely in line with my philosophy that we can help you overcome your excuses hence "Excuse Proof"

        WHAT I WANT:

        I DO want to emphasize that it can be easy, quick, etc. but not to the point where it is gimicky but rather in the sense that it's quick, easy, fast ONLY if you focus on what really matters and not the nonsense stuff that people just need to buy a magic pill.

        Also, colorful ways of getting the bulletpoints across like "have healthy meals in less time than it takes to order take out" or playful like "healthy meals in less time than it takes to tweet about your favorite American Idol contestant" since we like to poke fun at the general laziness of the public.

        Instead of appealing to people's laziness, I want to be the guy that kicks their ass and tells them to get serious about life. If I do what some have suggested, then I'm basically defeating that whole "loving but tough and respected drill sargeant" approach and become "mr. nice guy it's not your fault your fat just buy my program to fix it" guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    LOL.... you're asking for critiques, yet everyone is wrong.

    dude i've worked at big ad agencies, building multi-million dollar brands... and have a CB #1 best seller (soon to be 2)...

    look at how many weight loss, fitness offers have a name like "no excuse fitness"... it sounds like something you'd find at the flea market, not in the same class like fat burning furnace, truth about abs, diet solution.... six pack shortcuts, 4 minute abs, i could go on and on.

    "don't get married to your ideas"... thats the first thing you get taught in the ad world. You are married to your idea, no matter how lousy it may, or may not be.

    This is advertising suicide.

    What you should do is get a list of 3-5 or so names.... do a survey using survey monkey or something to your target market and let THEM tell you which name works best.... they're the ones that would be buying it.

    also, as you know, px90 is based on a specific type of training, interval training. The name ties into the fact its a 90 day program. the marketing and messaging are very carefully crafted, they've spent a LOT of money coming up with the idea, the brand name, the brand look... and everything tied together, so its consistent.

    How can you do something similar with your offer?

    something to think about.

    but ya, i don't have a clue what i'm talking about... :-)
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      LOL.... you're asking for critiques, yet everyone is wrong.

      dude i've worked at big ad agencies, building multi-million dollar brands... and have a CB #1 best seller (soon to be 2)...

      look at how many weight loss, fitness offers have a name like "no excuse fitness"... it sounds like something you'd find at the flea market, not in the same class like fat burning furnace, truth about abs, diet solution.... six pack shortcuts, 4 minute abs, i could go on and on.

      "don't get married to your ideas"... thats the first thing you get taught in the ad world. You are married to your idea, no matter how lousy it may, or may not be.

      This is advertising suicide.

      What you should do is get a list of 3-5 or so names.... do a survey using survey monkey or something to your target market and let THEM tell you which name works best.... they're the ones that would be buying it.

      also, as you know, px90 is based on a specific type of training, interval training. The name ties into the fact its a 90 day program. the marketing and messaging are very carefully crafted, they've spent a LOT of money coming up with the idea, the brand name, the brand look... and everything tied together, so its consistent.

      How can you do something similar with your offer?

      something to think about.

      but ya, i don't have a clue what i'm talking about... :-)
      This is actually very helpful and I appreciate your advice.

      I don't mean to say you don't know what you're talking about or act like a know it all, but my point is that what I'm going for is a bit different.

      So it's kind of like as a musician, asking for advice on marketing a hard rock album, and then people saying "don't write hard rock, write pop music that people dance to because it sells better"

      I could change my entire program name marketing in an afternoon since I have very little invested in it other than a url and facebook page, but I know what I'm about and what my vision is.

      The name changed multiple times until it was Excuse Proof Fitness which my informal surveying concluded that was a good brand name. But I certainly see how the name itself doesn't convey the message, but that's why I want to focus on positioning myself as the "expert" in solving peoples excuses.

      Any suggestions on how I might keep my theme of helping people overcome excuses like "not enough time" "not enough money" "not enough motivation" within a product or brand name?

      I feel like "Excuse Proof" entails the kind of "tough" attitude I'm going for and really captures the essence of what I'm doing which is helping people overcome their excuses. It "feels" right to me whether or not it works, but I'm certainly open to other suggestions, but the brands you mentioned would personally not appeal to me even if they appeal to the masses. (going back to hard rock vs. pop music example)
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Derek, I started reading the script...and then nodded off. It did absolutely nothing for me.

    I've read all your comments here and I have to agree with Dave and some others - you need a Hook. This whole "Excuse Proof Fitness" doesn't cut it.

    But why beat around the bush? Especially in video. The strongest thing you can do here is the old Before and After.

    "Dave used to be like this - (show a skinny nerd)

    Now he looks like this - (show cut body)

    Judy was a fatty - (show fat Judy)

    Now she's a babe - (show gorgeous Judy)

    How did they get like this? In only 6 months. "Derek's Asskicking Fitness Program" thats how."

    In video its vital that you Show don't Tell. And, of course, make it entertaining.

    But I get the impression you're not really going to listen to anyone's advice so I won't go on.

    BTW I went to your blog and the welcome video scared the crap out of me. You look like a male Psych nurse out of "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" or something. I half expected Nurse Ratchett to order me to get down and give her 100 pushups.

    Yep - I don't like that branding "Excuse Proof Fitness".
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Derek, I started reading the script...and then nodded off. It did absolutely nothing for me.

      I've read all your comments here and I have to agree with Dave and some others - you need a Hook. This whole "Excuse Proof Fitness" doesn't cut it.

      But why beat around the bush? Especially in video. The strongest thing you can do here is the old Before and After.

      "Dave used to be like this - (show a skinny nerd)

      Now he looks like this - (show cut body)

      Judy was a fatty - (show fat Judy)

      Now she's a babe - (show gorgeous Judy)

      How did they get like this? In only 6 months. "Derek's Asskicking Fitness Program" thats how."

      In video its vital that you Show don't Tell. And, of course, make it entertaining.

      But I get the impression you're not really going to listen to anyone's advice so I won't go on.

      BTW I went to your blog and the welcome video scared the crap out of me. You look like a male Psych nurse out of "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" or something. I half expected Nurse Ratchett to order me to get down and give her 100 pushups.

      Yep - I don't like that branding "Excuse Proof Fitness".
      Sorry if I've given the wrong impression, either in my posts or videos. Most people think I'm a good looking guy but i guess I can be intimidating. =)

      I'm certainly open to advice but I feel like some people don't understand what I'm going for which is totally my fault for not being as clear in my vision.

      Any thoughts on these for hooks? These could definately use some different wording which is what I could use help with, but is the "jist" of them any good?

      Don't buy another another fitness product (xyz type product) until you watch this! Learn why you're throwing your money down the drain if you don't know this one secret no one else has the balls to tell you.

      See the controversial video fitness marketers don't want you to see where you can finally discover the secret about what actually gets results without wasting countless hours cooking and exercising, spending a fortune on food, and feeling deprived.

      They're scared if you discover the truth about the one secret that's more important than diet, exercise, or even genetics, you'll never waste your money on their hyped up programs and "get fit quick" schemes ever again.

      You'll be wasting your money buying any program on health and fitness until you learn about the one secret that is more powerful than diet, exercise, and even genetics when it comes to getting in and staying fit. (burning fat, or whatever phrasing) Other marketers are too scared to tell you because they know you'll never need their bogus magic pills and dust collecting exercise gadgets when you understand the simple truth about what really gets results.

      Any of those, at least in theory, have potential? Thanks again guys, I really do consider all of this stuff. If you had any idea how many times this thing has been revised based off of numerous feedback from other sources and marketers you'd know I certainly take everything into consideration, it's just that I didn't just come up with this idea yesterday.

      My apologies again if I come across as arrogant or not willing to listen, I am factoring everything into consideration. It's not about "me", the "brand" or anything else. It's about helping others the best way possible, and that means getting them to listen, pay attention, and buy the product. Any personal stake I have in this is secondary to that.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by derekd View Post

        Sorry if I've given the wrong impression, either in my posts or videos. Most people think I'm a good looking guy but i guess I can be intimidating. =)

        I'm certainly open to advice but I feel like some people don't understand what I'm going for which is totally my fault for not being as clear in my vision.

        Any thoughts on these for hooks? These could definately use some different wording which is what I could use help with, but is the "jist" of them any good?

        Don't buy another another fitness product (xyz type product) until you watch this! Learn why you're throwing your money down the drain if you don't know this one secret no one else has the balls to tell you.

        See the controversial video fitness marketers don't want you to see where you can finally discover the secret about what actually gets results without wasting countless hours cooking and exercising, spending a fortune on food, and feeling deprived.

        They're scared if you discover the truth about the one secret that's more important than diet, exercise, or even genetics, you'll never waste your money on their hyped up programs and "get fit quick" schemes ever again.

        You'll be wasting your money buying any program on health and fitness until you learn about the one secret that is more powerful than diet, exercise, and even genetics when it comes to getting in and staying fit. (burning fat, or whatever phrasing) Other marketers are too scared to tell you because they know you'll never need their bogus magic pills and dust collecting exercise gadgets when you understand the simple truth about what really gets results.

        Any of those, at least in theory, have potential? Thanks again guys, I really do consider all of this stuff. If you had any idea how many times this thing has been revised based off of numerous feedback from other sources and marketers you'd know I certainly take everything into consideration, it's just that I didn't just come up with this idea yesterday.

        My apologies again if I come across as arrogant or not willing to listen, I am factoring everything into consideration. It's not about "me", the "brand" or anything else. It's about helping others the best way possible, and that means getting them to listen, pay attention, and buy the product. Any personal stake I have in this is secondary to that.
        Derek, If you're a fitness trainer I expect to see you in a gym or outdoors doing exercise. The vid looked like it was shot in your bedroom - and its shot from below from what I remember. Its much more flattering to shoot from above. You're also forcing a smile every now and again - like a serial killer.

        Start again. Have a hard workout. Come out of the workout room and towel off. Look like you've been training. Then just imagine you're talking to your best buddy. Relax. Be yourself. Let the passion come through.

        As for the above - doesn't turn my crank. "This one secret" - I've heard that before. You'd get more mileage coming out with something controversial. Like "Guess what? Your trainer is laughing at you." or "Guess what. Your trainer thinks you suck" or "Guess what your trainer is saying about you behind your back".

        Or go for the sucker punch - "Listen Fatso...I know you don't want to hear this but...the only way you're ever going to lose weight and not have people calling you Fatso behind your back is this -
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        • Profile picture of the author derekd
          Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          Derek, If you're a fitness trainer I expect to see you in a gym or outdoors doing exercise. The vid looked like it was shot in your bedroom - and its shot from below from what I remember. Its much more flattering to shoot from above. You're also forcing a smile every now and again - like a serial killer.

          Start again. Have a hard workout. Come out of the workout room and towel off. Look like you've been training. Then just imagine you're talking to your best buddy. Relax. Be yourself. Let the passion come through.

          As for the above - doesn't turn my crank. "This one secret" - I've heard that before. You'd get more mileage coming out with something controversial. Like "Guess what? Your trainer is laughing at you." or "Guess what. Your trainer thinks you suck" or "Guess what your trainer is saying about you behind your back".

          Or go for the sucker punch - "Listen Fatso...I know you don't want to hear this but...the only way you're ever going to lose weight and not have people calling you Fatso behind your back is this -
          Excellent advice. I want to note my videos are only posted for friends and family on facebook at this point, so when I do an actual product launch I will definately not just have a shot of me in my bedroom rambling about stuff, and those videos will be replaced by professionally shot videos at a friends production studio.

          By no means would I ever consider those videos professional enough for a legitimate product launch or to even keep them on my youtube channel for random strangers to see, but I'm cultivating a "ready fire aim" approach (as opposed to my nature of trying to perfect everything first) of getting my information out there and getting feedback among people I know and forums like this. Then I can more effectively revise when it comes to the "real deal" thanks to feedback like yours.

          I like the sucker punch idea, although perhaps less insulting but equally in your face with the same attitude. That's what I'm pushing, a message meant to wake people up. I will need to take a new approach than the "one secret," I agree. Thank you for the advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Derek, this might be of some use to you. Read what the second commenter, Micah, says - http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...er-emails.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Hey Derek!

    Personally, I'd stay away from talking about the subconscious mind.

    Most people don't even know what it means, including the majority of scientists out there.

    Turn people's ATTENTION to their beliefs.

    Firstly, what is a belief?

    In truth, it's nothing more than a thought you think hundreds of times and accept as reality.

    At the neurological level, it's repetitively producing the same neuropeptides (because of one's attention), which are addictive chemicals that most people don't even know exists.

    On a practical level, it's the judgment that "I don't have enough time" or "I can't deal with feeling massive fatigue while my body burns fats because I HAVE TO WORK, DAMMIT!"

    Most "quick-fix" programs (that don't work) sell because they overcome these objections by illuminating the possibilities people want...

    ...Without acknowledging the limiting beliefs that keep people fat and out of shape.

    In the end...

    Most workout programs only serve to reaffirm people's beliefs about how "losing weight and getting a sculpted body is hard!"

    So anyway...

    If I were you, I'd brand myself something like Mind Over Matter Fitness: Change Your Mind, Change Your Body

    I would NOT do a sales letter for this because...

    ...The ideas you're conveying are for more intelligent people.

    Not the "lose weight fast" type mentality that most programs target.

    So building a site that you can keep building your brand upon and posting lots of authority blogs is in your best interest.

    But this is to your advantage.

    If you can niche yourself as a "mind over matter" workout guru, you'll attract a quality clientele that stays with you for the long run and keeps buying your products as you grow, expand and refine your system.

    Mark Pescetti

    P.S. If you can show people how to perceive when they've interrupted their limiting beliefs, you can help them maintain the footing they achieve while using your program. As someone following your lead, if I'm not able to identify when I've made a massive breakthrough, I'll just revert to my old programming and continue to manifest sub-par results.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by Reflection Marketing View Post

      Hey Derek!

      Personally, I'd stay away from talking about the subconscious mind.

      Most people don't even know what it means, including the majority of scientists out there.

      Turn people's ATTENTION to their beliefs.

      Firstly, what is a belief?

      In truth, it's nothing more than a thought you think hundreds of times and accept as reality.

      At the neurological level, it's repetitively producing the same neuropeptides (because of one's attention), which are addictive chemicals that most people don't even know exists.

      On a practical level, it's the judgment that "I don't have enough time" or "I can't deal with feeling massive fatigue while my body burns fats because I HAVE TO WORK, DAMMIT!"

      Most "quick-fix" programs (that don't work) sell because they overcome these objections by illuminating the possibilities people want...

      ...Without acknowledging the limiting beliefs that keep people fat and out of shape.

      In the end...

      Most workout programs only serve to reaffirm people's beliefs about how "losing weight and getting a sculpted body is hard!"

      So anyway...

      If I were you, I'd brand myself something like Mind Over Matter Fitness: Change Your Mind, Change Your Body

      I would NOT do a sales letter for this because...

      ...The ideas you're conveying are for more intelligent people.

      Not the "lose weight fast" type mentality that most programs target.

      So building a site that you can keep building your brand upon and posting lots of authority blogs is in your best interest.

      But this is to your advantage.

      If you can niche yourself as a "mind over matter" workout guru, you'll attract a quality clientele that stays with you for the long run and keeps buying your products as you grow, expand and refine your system.

      Mark Pescetti

      P.S. If you can show people how to perceive when they've interrupted their limiting beliefs, you can help them maintain the footing they achieve while using your program. As someone following your lead, if I'm not able to identify when I've made a massive breakthrough, I'll just revert to my old programming and continue to manifest sub-par results.
      Mark, this is excellent advice. I will go back and revise the subconscious mind aspects and give more real world examples. I was actually thinking about that the other day how people will likely respond more to words like "beliefs" "emotions" and "motivation" more than talking about subsconsious programming and the overly scientific sounding stuff.

      I like the "mind over matter fitness" idea. I've used the phrase "change your mind, change your body" as a catchphrase for this program along with "you have excuses, we have solutions."

      The only issue with that for this program is the "mind over matter" aspect is only 1 of 3 parts of the program. Since I was planning on selling the first part as it's own program in the future, this could definately be a potential product name for that. I'm not sure if it captures the idea that I also teach a lot of "real world practical" stuff like what to do, recipes to cook, time saving methods, etc nor does it have quite the "tough" attitude of "excuse proof," but it really does get the point across about the mindset.

      Still, I'll play around with it and thanks to the internet there is nothing stopping me from releasing portions of a product under different brands and split testing stuff. Or maybe even "mind over body?" It's not as catching as "mind over matter", but I don't know if "mind over matter" sounds too cliche. Certainly things to survey and test, thanks again Mark!
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  • Profile picture of the author derekd
    Originally Posted by whitehalls View Post

    If this: https://s3.amazonaws.com/excuseproof...esComplete.pdf is the salesletter well I wish to see it formatted. Salesletters start with a HEADLINE to capture the attention and tell visitor why he should start reading salesletter!

    Then use subheadlines throughout the copy - and remember it can be long like yours but make sure it's not boring!
    It's not a sales letter, but a script that I will read with video displayed. Ignore any visual elements and just consider the narrative.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    You're obviously a smart guy and willing to work hard. That's good. The challenge is you're having the same problem all smart people have when they first start copywriting.

    You're getting to the root of the problem too fast. The average person either can't or won't face what's at the root of their weight problem, and you're not going to change that in your sales presentation.

    That's what the product is for.

    The marketing is where you sell them based on what they think they need. The shift in perception has to happen within the product itself. That's the core difference between broke and wealth in the personal growth niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekd
      Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      You're obviously a smart guy and willing to work hard. That's good. The challenge is you're having the same problem all smart people have when they first start copywriting.

      You're getting to the root of the problem too fast. The average person either can't or won't face what's at the root of their weight problem, and you're not going to change that in your sales presentation.

      That's what the product is for.

      The marketing is where you sell them based on what they think they need. The shift in perception has to happen within the product itself. That's the core difference between broke and wealth in the personal growth niche.
      This is something I have considered in depth. To what degree do I stick with "sales" in my sales presentation and leave the "education" to the product?

      I am noticing a trend however, and it's something I personallly enjoy which is the "sales presentation" that is really an educational video/presentation/webinar or whatever they use that then has a "continue your education with our product" approach.

      Perhaps if I was going with that approach, I'd start off with more actual tips and strategies giving away useful free content and getting them hooked, and then lead into more of a sales presentation if they liked what they got so far.

      I can see I haven't "hit it" with my presentation in combining the education with sales, but I'm not giving up on the idea of having my "sales" video be an "education" video as well. Though perhaps I should stick with a more basic proven "cookie-cutter" sales page approach and then go to more advanced selling strategies in line with what I really want when I can afford to hire a professional to assist.

      Thanks for the input and it's great food for thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        What impresses me about you Derek is your willingness to answer everyone in turn and with a great deal of respect.

        Not only this but you're also offering us something in return for giving you our advice, rarely seen on the forum these days.

        This demonstrates clearly your integrity as a businessman and wanting to offer your very specific target market great value for money.

        I'm personally wishing you the very best of luck in the future.

        Kindest regards,


        Mark Andrews
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        • Profile picture of the author derekd
          Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

          What impresses me about you Derek is your willingness to answer everyone in turn and with a great deal of respect.

          Not only this but you're also offering us something in return for giving you our advice, rarely seen on the forum these days.

          This demonstrates clearly your integrity as a businessman and wanting to offer your very specific target market great value for money.

          I'm personally wishing you the very best of luck in the future.

          Kindest regards,

          Mark Andrews
          Thank you for the kind words Mark.


          I do wish to apologize if I got off on the wrong foot with anyone in this thread, it wasn't my intention looking back at what I thought was just making my point clear can seem a little hard-headed, arrogant, and stubborn in some of my responses.


          I have immense respect for everyone here and their experience and point of view regardless of whether or not it resonates with me or my situation. Everyone is "right" in their own way.

          Because of this respect, I value the time that people spend to not only help me, but the fact that the people here have spent years and thousands of hours mastering their craft and often rightfully charge good fees for their services. I feel it's only fair that if someone were to take any of their free time to offer a tip, suggestion, and especially in-depth feedback, the least I can do is offer some sort of compensation even if it isn't monetary.
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