Freelancer.com

Go Back   Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Copywriting
Register Blogs Social Groups Advertise with usHelp Desk

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 23rd May 2012, 08:39 AM   #1
CopyRanger.com
War Room Member
 
RickDuris's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 1,930
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 2,764 Times in 1,014 Posts
Default NLP copywriting power words

Interesting new study on NLP power words:

Persuade with Silky Smooth Copy | Neuromarketing


- Rick Duris

RickDuris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 01:10 PM   #2
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Roger Dooley's book, Brainfluence, is also a pretty good reference for marketers and business owners. It contains many subtle and not-so-subtle techniques to change people's perceptions, attention, and actions.

While some of these 100 recommendations could use further proof of effectiveness, others are techniques of obvious merit, such as the measurable value in responding quickly and sincerely to customer complaints. (A Harris survey showed 18% of those receiving timely responses to to bad online reviews became loyal customers, and nearly 70% reversed the negative content by deleting the negative review or posting a second positive one.)

There is also a section on adjectives that work, which is useful to copywriters. Would you rather have just plain salmon or Wild Alaskan Salmon (cue images of strong, robust salmon swimming in pristine waters)?
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 03:12 PM   #3
Godfather of Curation
War Room Member
 
Harlan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2004
Location: Boca Raton,FL , USA.
Posts: 1,294
Blog Entries: 10
Thanks: 306
Thanked 919 Times in 314 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post
Interesting new study on NLP power words:

Persuade with Silky Smooth Copy | Neuromarketing


- Rick Duris
That was pretty limp.

Use sensation based words.

That's new?

What good copywriter ever didn't?

That's Intro To NLP 101

Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
http://overnight-copy.com
Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com
Harlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 03:38 PM   #4
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan View Post
That was pretty limp.

Use sensation based words.

That's new?

What good copywriter ever didn't?

That's Intro To NLP 101
I think Rick was referring to the study itself, not Roger Dooley's take on it.

The study presents fMRI-based evidence that textural metaphors (such as "rough") activated the texture-selective part of somatosensory cortex, or the part of the brain known as the parietal operculum. In other words, texture-based words activated areas of the brain associated with touch.

Roger then posited that those kinds of terms might be more memorable and impactful, and went on from there.

Perhaps it would be more informative to read the interview with one of the co-authors of the study, Krishnankutty Sathian, who is a professor of neurology, rehab medicine, and psychology. It is located at This Is Your Brain on Metaphor - IEEE Spectrum.

So while using sensation-based words is not new, sometimes it's useful to study the science behind how and why they work.
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 04:33 PM   #5
CopyRanger.com
War Room Member
 
RickDuris's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Laguna Beach, CA
Posts: 1,930
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 2,764 Times in 1,014 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Thanks, Steve for the link.

I found the study truly fascinating.

With the craft of copywriting changing as I write, personally I'm looking for ways to get more out of every word.

- Rick Duris

RickDuris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 04:38 PM   #6
Words Rule the World
War Room Member
 
Pusateri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: South Texas Coast
Posts: 585
Thanks: 707
Thanked 668 Times in 300 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Will someone please explain what NLP actually is? I mean, what do practitioners of NLP do that is not done by others?

And please don't give me the modeling excellence line. People have been copying what works for the entirety of history.
Pusateri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 07:58 PM   #7
The Reality Check
War Room Member
 
Bruce Wedding's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: Cancun, Quintana Roo, MX
Posts: 3,959
Thanks: 605
Thanked 993 Times in 438 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

You guys don't realize you're dealing with the self-proclaimed master of NLP copywriting You're not going to be able to teach him anything about NLP. I mean come on, this is a guy who wrote this page:

Video Beach Millions

Warning: View at your own risk. Because of the author and his powers over the mind, you will have to use incredible will power to avoid buying the product when you watch.

Bruce Wedding is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 08:45 PM   #8
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 2,776
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,849
Thanked 2,534 Times in 1,269 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post
Will someone please explain what NLP actually is? I mean, what do practitioners of NLP do that is not done by others?

And please don't give me the modeling excellence line. People have been copying what works for the entirety of history.
Neuro - brain activity. Frequencies. Think alpha waves, theta waves etc.

Linguistic - speech. Or in this case the written word as applied to copywriting in our case.

Programming, as in programming sensory input into the subconscious mind. Turning off the conscious mind which raises the objection to allow the unconscious mind more freedom to influence positively any desired action needed on the part of the programmer.

Certain words used in combination for example can spark off in the subconscious mind a fight or flight response mechanism.

Using fear words will typically trigger either of the above responses even if the recipient isn't aware directly of what is happening to them.

Used carefully you can manufacture the results you're looking for, for whatever set number of variables or outcomes you want based on different standard personality types.

An experienced copywriter with a very good understanding of the target market can manipulate these sensory and/or chemical organs knowing full well a certain percentage of said audience will nearly always respond in a certain way from the programming or words chosen to elicit the response desired.

An NLP expert is simply aware of how to press these buttons whilst for the most part most people aren't aware of the actual processes involved at a deeper level although to some extent, knowingly or otherwise, most if not all people do this to some extent or another.

In a nutshell.

At least, this is my personal take on it.

I could go a lot deeper into this but I haven't the time for it right now.


Mark Andrews
Mark Andrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 08:59 PM   #9
HyperActive Warrior
 
Join Date: 2012
Posts: 368
Thanks: 23
Thanked 158 Times in 110 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post
Ah, it works but the subject is unaware that it works and there's no objective proof that it works.

I like it.
Some copywriters use NLP to help position themselves. Smart.

Some copywriters believe those who use NLP to help position themselves. Dumb.

VL
videolover7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd May 2012, 10:16 PM   #10
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post
You guys don't realize you're dealing with the self-proclaimed master of NLP copywriting You're not going to be able to teach him anything about NLP.
Yep, I do know of Harlan's field. For what it's worth, it looks like this particular research helps to validate some of the tenets of NLP, so it may be of interest even to an established NLP practitioner.

Given the professional controversy around the subject of NLP, any science to help back it up would seem to be a good thing.

See Neuro-linguistic programming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for a quite a bit more information about NLP. Keep in mind that it may be biased by the author(s) of the Wikipedia entry, and it may or may not be accurate.

In any case, we're not trying to be NLP specialists (and apparently there is quite a bit involved with doing that the right way, especially for psychiatric practice). Perhaps a better term for copywriters would be persuasive copywriting, which includes some lessons from NLP, as well as resources such as Cashvertising, Brain Audit, and other layman references.

Some copywriters (such as Jennie Heckel) say applying NLP principles in their copy works well, so it could be a useful tool for those that want to take the time to study it.
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 02:00 AM   #11
The Reality Check
War Room Member
 
Bruce Wedding's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: Cancun, Quintana Roo, MX
Posts: 3,959
Thanks: 605
Thanked 993 Times in 438 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post
Some copywriters (such as Jennie Heckel) say applying NLP principles in their copy works well, so it could be a useful tool for those that want to take the time to study it.
And perhaps it is, but not the way Jennie Heckel does it, IMHO. Read her own sales page. If you want to see her "subtle" NLP, just read the bold print. Things like...

Quote:
Here's how a project goes....

Let's agree that I've chatted with you and I've accepted you as a client.

Then all that's left for you to do is to have you fill out a short questionnaire. I will review all the pertinent facts about what you need for your new sales letter and product launch.

Then we schedule a chat to go over it all to be sure I am clear on what you want done.

We take time to discuss the needs you have to promote your product and what resources you have to roll out this product launch.

One thing to remember is... people hate being sold.

People LOVE TO BUY.


Get a sales letter copywriter who knows how to

write persuasive, subliminal copy!


So my copy subliminally seduces them -- it goes under their radar using NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) to hit their hidden triggers -- those real reasons they would want to buy.

Once you hone in on those 'hidden reasons people buy' -- you know, the ones they don't want to admit they have that's getting them to click the buy button -- then getting that darn buy button clicked -- well that's simple!

Remember what you THINK is the reason that people buy may have NOTHING to do with their needing/buying your product. Instead its all about their WANTING to buy your product on a deep emotional level. We nail their emotions to the wall and they'll whip out their credit cards and buy.

One last thing...

Please understand the importance of the fact...


The single worst mistake you can make...


Hire a copywriter without a proven record.

Or heaven forbid -- you force yourself to write it yourself!

Be honest with yourself. You've thought about taking a stab at writing your own copy, haven't you?

Why go through all that pain and anguish? When you don't have to force yourself to write copy -- not when you know I'm here.

Remember writing your own copy -- well that's as painful as getting your aching tooth filled... am I right?

Let's prevent you getting a terrible toothache -- well, maybe we would downgrade that to a terrible, migraine headache?

Ask yourself this important question and answer it truthfully.

Why would you even want to struggle with trying to write your own copy and dooming your business to lackluster or low sales?

You'll agree it's practically a crime to put yourself through this kind of misery...

Ok, then we are in agreement. You want me to write your copy.
It's so freakin' obvious that it's offensive. If this is NLP applied at its finest, I'm disgusted.

Look... create movies in the prospects mind, lead them to their own conclusions, which "magically" align with your desires. You don't need to study NLP to do this, but you do need to practice.

Ok, back to the beach

Bruce Wedding is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 09:14 AM   #12
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post
If you want to see her "subtle" NLP, just read the bold print. It's so freakin' obvious that it's offensive.
If the readers knew nothing about NLP, would it be obvious to them? We'd have to remember what it was like not knowing.

The real question is whether it provides results for her particular niche and customers, and since she is currently #2 on Elance for copywriting, it appears that it does (on Elance at least, in combination with all of the other factors that go into a successful business such as pricing, reliability, accessibility, networking, personality, etc. etc.).

Jennie did say once that she saw a significant, measurable difference in copy conversions after applying the principles of NLP to her copywriting, but without specifics, it's hard to tell exactly how much it helped, or see her before and after examples of it used in marketing copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post
Look... create movies in the prospects mind, lead them to their own conclusions, which "magically" align with your desires. You don't need to study NLP to do this, but you do need to practice.
Great timeless advice right there. In a related reference, there is a short book called "Movies in the Mind: How to build a short story" by Colleen Mariah Rae. While it's somewhat specific to the author's particular (and sometimes peculiar) thought processes, there are some good story development techniques throughout.

One useful exercise in particular was how to develop a story (with setting, props, and characters) forward and backward from a specific scene as seen in the mind's eye. It's very useful when a particular scene is desired and there is a need to develop the surrounding story.

When combined with copywriting knowledge, specific desired outcomes, classic story outlines such as the Hero's Journey, persuasive copywriting, and practice, that's a pretty potent blend.
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 02:15 PM   #13
Rockstar Copywriter
 
angiecolee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 844
Thanks: 1,198
Thanked 837 Times in 444 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Love this. Back when I was studying screenwriting, I had a professor that taught similar methods, but I doubt she thought of it as NLP. She encouraged us to avoid adjectives when possible and opt for descriptive action words instead.

He shuffled instead of walking slowly.

She chortled instead of laughing derisively.

They collapsed instead of falling down.

When I describe things, I try to stick to that wisdom - it's easy to cut down unnecessary words when you vary descriptions and don't rely on adjectives all the time.

I promise that random ramble was tangentially related. It's the descriptions that make copywriting fun for me - finding different ways to say the same things we've all heard. Creativity, folks!

Thanks for sharing, Rick!

For women ONLY...

Start getting what you want, when you want it. Join the Club.
angiecolee is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 06:02 PM   #14
HyperActive Warrior
 
Doceye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Down heed by the raging river.
Posts: 131
Thanks: 48
Thanked 76 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post
You guys don't realize you're dealing with the self-proclaimed master of NLP copywriting You're not going to be able to teach him anything about NLP. I mean come on, this is a guy who wrote this page:

Video Beach Millions
Oh, my ...

It's Harlan Livingston Seagull.
Doceye is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 07:05 PM   #15
Senior Warrior Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 1,042
Thanks: 1,499
Thanked 939 Times in 414 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doceye View Post
Oh, my ...

It's Harlan Livingston Seagull.
Huh? The waves are too loud here.

These beaches can get noisy...
max5ty is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 07:13 PM   #16
HyperActive Warrior
 
Doceye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Down heed by the raging river.
Posts: 131
Thanks: 48
Thanked 76 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by max5ty View Post
Huh? The waves are too loud here.

These beaches can get noisy...
Maxie ... shhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Hold it down! The thought police are right next door dismantling another post that runs counter to the Fatherland's sense of propriety.

You don't want to get us sent to the camps, do you?

Now pass that nose cleaner, would 'ya?
Doceye is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 07:19 PM   #17
Senior Warrior Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 1,042
Thanks: 1,499
Thanked 939 Times in 414 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doceye View Post
Maxie ... shhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Hold it down! The thought police are right next door dismantling another post that runs counter to the Fatherland's sense of propriety.

You don't want to get us sent to the camps, do you?

Now pass that nose cleaner, would 'ya?
Those darn thought police...

Are those camps any fun?
max5ty is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 07:25 PM   #18
HyperActive Warrior
 
Doceye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Down heed by the raging river.
Posts: 131
Thanks: 48
Thanked 76 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Actually they're quite painful.

They torture you 24/7 with recordings of beach sounds until you promise to donate all your money to Greenpeace.

But you do get all the "boat drinks" you want. You know, like the one with the multi-colored parasol Harlan sports in his "Beach Millions" video.
Doceye is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 07:30 PM   #19
Senior Warrior Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 1,042
Thanks: 1,499
Thanked 939 Times in 414 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doceye View Post
Actually they're quite painful.

They torture you 24/7 with recordings of beach sounds until you promise to donate all your money to Greenpeace.

But you do get all the "boat drinks" you want. You know, like the one with the multi-colored parasol Harlan sports in his "Beach Millions" video.
Actually, I thought he looked like the type that would have a beer can in his hand.

Not sure what was with the umbrella drink...must be an NLP thing.

Don't get me started Doceye...I'll whip out my umbrella drink and try to hypnotize you into buying my latest course on making $2 dollars while you sleep by using websites...
max5ty is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th May 2012, 08:39 PM   #20
Zen Redneck
War Room Member
 
Paul Myers's Avatar
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 15,708
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 2,756
Thanked 16,927 Times in 4,902 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Now, now ladies. Behave, please.

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.


Last edited on 24th May 2012 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. There is no 'e' in 'now.'
Paul Myers is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 25th May 2012, 10:23 AM   #21
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Jason Fladlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA.
Posts: 397
Thanks: 361
Thanked 726 Times in 137 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

NLP often gets confused with hypnosis.

NLP is a method to MODEL a certain behavior. So NLP in copywriting would be to study a great copywriter and figure out how they make their decisions for writing headlines/hooks, laying out the letter, focusing on hot buttons, positioning the offer, etc.

The refinement is not what they tell you... that's not a model. You have to know how to figure out what they do even if they themselves aren't aware at it. You have to figure out how to elicit their strategies - that's where it's important to know NLP.

So if you asked a copywriter - "How do you know when you have a great headline" and they answer - "It just pops out at me then I start humming along and next thing I know I'm in the groove and the copy is done!"

Their internal process is Visual (pops out) Audio (humming) Audio (groove).

More important is if I ask them to describe to me what they see, hear and feel internally when they are in the "copywriting zone".

If almost every copywriter who gets in the zone sees moving images, close and larger than life with vivid bright colors... guess what? I'm going to start visualizing moving images of me writing world class copy with vivid colors

In my opinion, one of the great contributions from NLP was the "phobia cure" invented by Bandler. He discovered how to cure almost any phobia using in less than 5 minutes. How'd he do it? He took an ad out in the paper asking for people who had phobias and got rid of them to call him - and he interviewed them.

What he discovered was a pattern - people "seeing themselves" from afar just doing what they were afraid of, and "looking back" at all the times they struggled with their phobia. So he then took that and made a model:

Understanding NLP's Fast Phobia Cure

And now almost anybody who understands it and practices can do well with phobias. That's how Tony Robbins first got big

Co-creator of WP Twin. Perhaps the most expensive yet most reliable wordress cloning tool on the market. We've definitely been used more successfully than all other options :)
Jason Fladlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25th May 2012, 12:15 PM   #22
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

And how in the world does someone get a phobia about...baked beans? But it was an interesting article.
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25th May 2012, 12:17 PM   #23
Marxist (Groucho)
War Room Member
 
Ken Strong's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2005
Location: Seattle, WA, USA.
Posts: 5,193
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 863
Thanked 1,845 Times in 833 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post
"I was once giving a public presentation and found a volunteer with a phobia of baked beans."
Attached Thumbnails
NLP copywriting power words-bakedbeans.jpg  

Ken Strong is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25th May 2012, 05:09 PM   #24
Advanced Warrior
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 604
Thanks: 18
Thanked 192 Times in 165 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Use all copywriting resources that make your copy read more smoothly so that readers move down your copy like going down a slide. Excellent resources include Richard Bayan's Words That Sell and Joe Vitale's Hypnotic Writing Swipe File.
ThomasOMalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 01:56 AM   #25
Active Warrior
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: just inside M25 near london uk
Posts: 46
Thanks: 20
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post
The single worst mistake you can make...


Hire a copywriter without a proven record.
Could you please explain Bruce how you got your first job without I presume a proven record? Thank you
saggsee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 03:00 AM   #26
Adrian In't Veldt
War Room Member
 
Adrian Int's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Burlington, Ontario (Canada)
Posts: 239
Blog Entries: 7
Thanks: 26
Thanked 73 Times in 55 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Saggsee, I believe Bruce was quoting Jennie Heckel during the portion you're asking about. I wouldn't hold him accountable for any bitter taste reading that may have left in your mouth. :-P

ATTENTION: Improve your list building. Free report and mp3
Adrian Int is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 03:47 AM   #27
Active Warrior
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: just inside M25 near london uk
Posts: 46
Thanks: 20
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

No bitter taste at all. I am asking as a way of how to promote oneself. I have no "proven record" so any advice would be most welcome. I have posted a new thread on the subject but looks tacky lol....but attention grabbing. I am a trained NLP Practitioner and have just recently read a book on Web Copy that being "Web Copy That Sells" Great read and I am quite geared up to start this form of writing but like many newcomers just need a pointer in where to start.....Fiverr is not my way but if needs be??? Thanks...
saggsee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 01:11 PM   #28
HyperActive Warrior
 
Doceye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Down heed by the raging river.
Posts: 131
Thanks: 48
Thanked 76 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post
And how in the world does someone get a phobia about...baked beans?
You simply sleep with someone who enjoys them.
Doceye is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 01:41 PM   #29
The Reality Check
War Room Member
 
Bruce Wedding's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: Cancun, Quintana Roo, MX
Posts: 3,959
Thanks: 605
Thanked 993 Times in 438 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by saggsee View Post
Could you please explain Bruce how you got your first job without I presume a proven record? Thank you
I "ghost-wrote" for a well-known copywriter for over a year before I got a paying client; copy-cub if you will. I paid my dues writing about 30 sales letters with ZERO credit and at an average price of $1,000 each. My first was $400!

How I got my first paying job is a funny story.

The client I was writing for figured out I was the one writing his letter after I opted into his list to research his product. He dug around, found my website and put it all together. So he contacted me and just hired me directly at a lower fee than he was paying the guy I was writing for. Naturally, I got my "employer" to agree to this before I accepted the job.

The letter was a huge success and he referred many friends to me. My career was launched.

Bruce Wedding is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 09:02 PM   #30
Active Warrior
War Room Member
 
debml's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 75
Thanks: 31
Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

When did this become the critique Jenny Heckel forum?
debml is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 10:31 PM   #31
Words Rule the World
War Room Member
 
Pusateri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: South Texas Coast
Posts: 585
Thanks: 707
Thanked 668 Times in 300 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post
NLP often gets confused with hypnosis.

NLP is a method to MODEL a certain behavior. So NLP in copywriting would be to study a great copywriter and figure out how they make their decisions for writing headlines/hooks, laying out the letter, focusing on hot buttons, positioning the offer, etc.

The refinement is not what they tell you... that's not a model. You have to know how to figure out what they do even if they themselves aren't aware at it. You have to figure out how to elicit their strategies - that's where it's important to know NLP.

So if you asked a copywriter - "How do you know when you have a great headline" and they answer - "It just pops out at me then I start humming along and next thing I know I'm in the groove and the copy is done!"

Their internal process is Visual (pops out) Audio (humming) Audio (groove).

More important is if I ask them to describe to me what they see, hear and feel internally when they are in the "copywriting zone".

If almost every copywriter who gets in the zone sees moving images, close and larger than life with vivid bright colors... guess what? I'm going to start visualizing moving images of me writing world class copy with vivid colors
So when interviewing Mr. Supercopy on how he does what he does, you ignore the substance and key in on his sensory language?

While he certainly knows the technical aspects of what he does very well and can tell you about them, his sensory thought process is probably not something he has ever considered. Even if it's useful to know, there's little chance you are getting his actual sensory process. What he will give you is a mental reconstruction of what he thinks is his process. At best it will be like looking of a fourth generation photocopy of an image that was fuzzy to begin with.

You could try to observe him and ask your questions while he is writing copy, but this act of observing his process alters his process.

In any case, what you end up with is a sequence of sensory observations. What good are they? You've ignored everything he told you about structure, persuasion, word choice, how to construct an offer, how to research a niche...the list goes on and on.

Go find two people who have never written copy. Give one a transcript of Mr. Supercopy's answers. Teach the other how to make movies in his head based on the supposed sensory processes revealed by those answers. Now give them a writing assignment and see where efficacy resides.

Seems like NLP is closer to phrenology than to neuroscience.
Pusateri is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26th May 2012, 11:22 PM   #32
Got fish?
War Room Member
 
Steve Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: 311 miles south of the ranch
Posts: 443
Thanks: 294
Thanked 321 Times in 198 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post
So when interviewing Mr. Supercopy on how he does what he does, you ignore the substance and key in on his sensory language? (...snip...)

Seems like NLP is closer to phrenology than to neuroscience.
Sigh. No wonder NLP has, shall we say, a mixed reception.

It sounds like Jason saw this page:

The Art of NLP And Copy

and assumed that is what NLP was. It isn't.

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about NLP, because I don't. But I have studied it a bit, all the way back to the original interviews of Milton Erickson in Gregory Bateson's communications project in the late 50's-early 60's.

In my understanding (Harlan can correct us if otherwise), NLP is primarily a psychiatric approach. There are many variations on the techniques, and many of them rely on physical proximity for intonation, reaction, etc., and as such, are of limited use in copywriting.

However, some techniques do seem to work well on a subconscious level regardless of proximity, and those are the ones of interest to copywriters.

There is some science behind it, such as the study recently mentioned showing brain activity with texture-based terms (such as "rough"). There is also a lot of anecdotal (but not scientifically proven) evidence of effectiveness.

From what I can tell so far, it seems that only a small portion of the entire NLP-based curriculum is useful in copywriting. As such, it's just one small additional set of tools in the copywriter's toolbox.

It's worth studying to gain an extra edge in your copy, but it's not a magic solution. It won't turn readers into walking zombies, and as a subtle method, it is hard to use effectively and transparently. As applied to copywriting, it's another application of persuasive copywriting, which of course has a long history dating back to well before NLP.

If in doubt, skip the hype, and do the research. For those looking for an edge, it's useful, but it's not an easy technique to master, IMO.
Steve Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27th May 2012, 01:52 PM   #33
Ready To Learn!
 
countrytechdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Just Outside of Phoenix
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doceye View Post
You simply sleep with someone who enjoys them.
When I read this, I dam near choked on my water, and ended up spitting it out all over my HD TV (monitor), from laughing so hard.

I LOVE your sense of humor!
countrytechdesign is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 02:24 AM   #34
European Warrior
War Room Member
 
sammib01's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 179
Thanks: 29
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Bruce Wedding I do not know you but I love your comments. The Warning was best. I do International Business negotiations and believe me copywriting is different in many countries. The Germans are exact in spelling and use Little emotion, the French, Spanish, Italians and Portuguese use alot of emotion and spelling is secondary. The Russians can't spell and Love to tell looong stories. It changes from country to country. And NLP will work in the US but internationally I am not so sure.

I Love reading peoples ideas and having a laugh... And I mean ist in a good way. People can be so pleasent and funny while still providing quality useful information.

Love it. Thanks all and especially Bruce. You make me smile. :-)
sammib01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 10:19 AM   #35
Profit Producing Copy
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 142
Thanks: 15
Thanked 58 Times in 44 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

There is so much to NLP that it is easily misunderstood and distorted, even by people who think they know what it is.

You really can't make an evaluation on it until you have experienced it first hand. Not by talking about it or reading a book about it. But by interacting with others, in person, using it.

I have been to many NLP trainings, including Richard BAndler, who many credit as inventing it.

I'm a certified NLP trainer. Went through about 6 weeks of training 10 hours a day. The only word that describes my experience is transformational. That is, I was a completely different person after.

Everything I did, I did better after that, including copywriting.

It helps you sync up your conscious and unconscious thought processes.

It helps you quantify every tool of communication.

Yes, there is overlap between NLP and hypnosis. Much of my NLP training worked on Milton Erickson's language patterns.

Unfortunately, NLP has gotten a bad rap as being manipulative. And many business people who got into it, did so to try to get "control" over other people.

What it is, IMHO is one of the strongest tools for self-improvement available today.

And that includes improving your copywriting skills.

http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...ost-sales.html
Professional Direct Response Copywriting
50% Off Limited Time Offer!
"http://www.profitproducingcopy.com"
Ken Hoffman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 10:44 AM   #36
Active Warrior
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: just inside M25 near london uk
Posts: 46
Thanks: 20
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

As a quick add on note to Ken's excellent words above regarding NLP getting a bad report at the moment I can confirm that when I have mentioned my NLP Practitioner level to some people I am met with faces that seem horrified. What I think IMHO is that in copy writing and selling for that matter NLP techniques have been used since business begun but only now are we beginning to acknowledge that certain words induce certain reactions.
People will never buy/subscribe/call unless they are happy to do so, no matter what words we use for copy.
saggsee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 11:16 AM   #37
Profit Producing Copy
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 142
Thanks: 15
Thanked 58 Times in 44 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

One other thing I'll add. People sometimes forget that the words alone are only 7% of the communication. So as a copywriter that leaves out 93% of the communication.

Most of the value of NLP comes from tonality, emotional state management, and body language.

Outside of the words, there are strategies that can be applied too, such as future pacing, etc.

http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...ost-sales.html
Professional Direct Response Copywriting
50% Off Limited Time Offer!
"http://www.profitproducingcopy.com"
Ken Hoffman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 12:49 PM   #38
HyperActive Warrior
 
Doceye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Down heed by the raging river.
Posts: 131
Thanks: 48
Thanked 76 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Okay, I'm going to bite, Ken ... how in blue blazes are words only 7% of written communication? And what comprises the other 93% copywriters are leaving out?

I'm hoping you simply misstated your position. Because as written your comments strike me as utterly absurd.

Further, how in the heck is body language going to affect the words you write. Do you send a picture of yourself dangling from the rafters like a monkey when you write in a playful tone?

Man ... you NLPers are confusing the heck out of me; I fear I'm not alone either.
Doceye is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 01:49 PM   #39
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Jason Fladlien's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA.
Posts: 397
Thanks: 361
Thanked 726 Times in 137 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post
Sigh. No wonder NLP has, shall we say, a mixed reception.

It sounds like Jason saw this page:

The Art of NLP And Copy

and assumed that is what NLP was. It isn't.

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about NLP, because I don't. But I have studied it a bit, all the way back to the original interviews of Milton Erickson in Gregory Bateson's communications project in the late 50's-early 60's.

In my understanding (Harlan can correct us if otherwise), NLP is primarily a psychiatric approach. There are many variations on the techniques, and many of them rely on physical proximity for intonation, reaction, etc.,
Interesting theory but incorrect. Harlan is a good friend of mine and he can tell you how good my knowledge of NLP and copywriting is - I've made millions with my copy.

In the NLP co-founders words themselves: "if effective patterns of behaviour of exceptional people could be modeled then these patterns could be acquired by others." That's the whole premise on which they built NLP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pusateri
So when interviewing Mr. Supercopy on how he does what he does, you ignore the substance and key in on his sensory language?
You give less importance to the substance. There is a difference between doing and teaching. Also between conscious learning and unconscious learning. Conscious learning is long, slow and painful - that's why people who just focus on conscious learning take a long time to master copywriting. Unconscious learning can happen much faster - and if you understand the unconscious part of the copywriting, you'll make much quicker prograess.

The problem is most people are not qualified enough with NLP to use it as a tool for self improvement (much less to help others).

The sensory language is one of the easiest cues on what's going on at an unconscious level.

Most people simple can't explain or don't even really know how they do what they do. They can tell you what they THINK they are doing... but in reality it's usually not what they actually are doing.

FINALLY, the reason why people get hypnosis and NLP mixed up all the time is that Bandler and Grinder got famous because they "modeled" the language patterns of Milton Erickson, who was the father of modern hypnosis and a lot of their "quick change" techniques came from that.

But notice: NLP is modeling a behavior... it's NOT hypnosis. Hypnotic language patterns can be effective in copy when used right. Modeling a great copywriter through the use of NLP is something completely different though.

With all that said, I mainly use NLP to get me in a mindstate that helps sharpen my focus. As far as the writing of the copy itself goes - little importance is placed on hypnotic patterns, nested or open loops, anchoring or any other common NLP or hypnotic method.

Instead, I just be selective and only write copy for really, really incredible offers... which is more important than word choice, pacing, and flow combined.

Co-creator of WP Twin. Perhaps the most expensive yet most reliable wordress cloning tool on the market. We've definitely been used more successfully than all other options :)
Jason Fladlien is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28th May 2012, 05:01 PM   #40
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2002
Location: The mind of a prospect
Posts: 498
Thanks: 18
Thanked 117 Times in 80 Posts
Default Re: NLP copywriting power words

Forget NLP.

What you want is to CAPTIVATE.

What you want is to CONNECT.

And above all...

What you want is CLARITY.

Focus on these things and you can drop prospects to their knees, begging you to take their cash.

Day after day after... well, you get it right?

Isn’t it FUN to do... have customers shove money in your account night and day?

CUSTOMERS get better lives. YOU get a big house, fancy cars, amazing vacations (whatever your heart desires)... bam, bam, BAM!

Write. Get cash. What’s not to like?

Forget NLP.

You don’t want to touch that stuff...

Scary good...
CopyMonster is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Copywriting

Bookmarks

Tags
copywriting, nlp, power, words

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.