Fired due to poor English skills

15 years ago

No offense...

You speak great English, but I can tell from reading your post that it's not your native language.

A couple examples that are "off" a little bit...

my lack of English written skills

my manager knew that since interview stage

You speak fluent English, but I don't think it's at a professional writing level...

You're close though, maybe hire a proofreader to correct minor mistakes like the ones I pointed out.

Regardless, don't let it get you down. Get out there and find some more jobs, your English is great compared to most non-native speakers, and with a little proofreading it should be fine.

-Scott

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ndcole78

15 years ago

A common problem with a lot of writers who are not from the US is that they leave out articles like (the) before nouns.

Scottspdf82 highlighted a perfect example in which you wrote: "my manager knew that since interview stage"

Not only is the article (the) missing, but the sentence reads funny and it needs re-working to sound right. Not putting you down or anything, but my 10-year-old daughter knows that this is not correct.

I can tell you that the fact that you have a small tendency to write sentences like this means that your boss always had to carefully read over your work to ensure that there's no broken English.

Your boss probably figured it was easier to just do it him or herself. There's no sense in paying a writer and then having to go back and check for errors all the time.

You may not make errors often, but the fact that you "might" write something that's a sure giveaway that a none-English speaking person wrote it makes it a must that she reads it very well before sending it on to someone else.

Simply put----it wastes a lot of time and money to have to do this, which is probably why you were let go.

Now don't go and get down on yourself. Make this a learning experience, brush up on your skills, and make more money than ever being your own boss.

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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

Even people whose native language is English, leave out commas and make spelling mistakes.

Originally Posted by ndcole78

You may not make errors often, but the fact that you "might" write something that's a sure giveaway that a none-English speaking person wrote it makes it a must that she reads it very well before sending it on to someone else.

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Texson5 15 years ago

Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus

Even people whose native language is English, leave out commas and make spelling mistakes.

Oh good. You didn't correct mine. lol
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ndcole78

15 years ago

Yeah D.K. Magnus, but there is a difference when US writers do it and when someone whose native language is not English does it. It's very easy to tell the difference.

Like I said, the most common mistake is leaving out articles such as (the) before nouns. That's a sure sure sign and I see it all the time just like the original poster did when she made her post.

The point is to help her so it does not happen to her again.

Forget trying to sue, etc. If she's out of a job, then she probably won't be able to afford a good attorney anyway. Plus the reason that she was fired will always be ruled in the employers favor.

Having poor English skills in a job that requires daily use of English in the written form means that the person could not carry out the duties of their job.

My father is an attorney, so I know......Plus I've been to law school myself.

When it's all said and done, she'll still need to brush up on her English skills. Sometimes it's better to just let things go, learn from it, and see the opportunity that has presented itself like working for yourself.

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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

I didn't mean to offend you.

I just hoped that missgreentea wasn't using the postings here, as an example.

I have to agree with your post.

Originally Posted by ndcole78

Yeah D.K. Magnus, but there is a difference when US writers do it and when someone whose native language is not English does it. It's very easy to tell the difference.

Like I said, the most common mistake is leaving out articles such as (the) before nouns. That's a sure sure sign and I see it all the time just like the original poster did when she made her post.

The point is to help her so it does not happen to her again.

Forget trying to sue, etc. If she's out of a job, then she probably won't be able to afford a good attorney anyway. Plus the reason that she was fired will always be ruled in the employers favor.

Having poor English skills in a job that requires daily use of English in the written form means that the person could not carry out the duties of their job.

My father is an attorney, so I know......Plus I've been to law school myself.

When it's all said and done, she'll still need to brush up on her English skills. Sometimes it's better to just let things go, learn from it, and see the opportunity that has presented itself like working for yourself.

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Powertreb

15 years ago

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

Regardless, don't let it get you down. Get out there and find some more jobs, your English is great compared to most non-native speakers, and with a little proofreading it should be fine.

Missgreentea, your writing and your English is better than many NATIVE English speakers I have come across.

Believe me, I've read some HORRIBLE stuff from pure-born Americans.

If you've ever read the New York Post...you'll know what I mean.

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morwanneg

15 years ago

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

No offense...

You speak great English, but I can tell from reading your post that it's not your native language.

A couple examples that are "off" a little bit...

You speak fluent English, but I don't think it's at a professional writing level...

You're close though, maybe hire a proofreader to correct minor mistakes like the ones I pointed out.

Regardless, don't let it get you down. Get out there and find some more jobs, your English is great compared to most non-native speakers, and with a little proofreading it should be fine.

-Scott

I'm just wondering what's your basis in saying that her English is not at a professional writing level? I don't think she needed to write professionally when she posted her complaint here. She was just expressing her disappointment at what happened to her and she was just being conversational.

So how can you say her English is not at a professional writing level when she, herself, was just being conversational? I see no justification for that assumption.

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P.Sharma

15 years ago

The world is dominated be english........ah...

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Bigsofty

15 years ago

Not dominated, the world is helped by so many speaking a universal language

B.

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Dean Dhuli

15 years ago

Originally Posted by missgreentea

Last week I was fired from my position as a PR Consultant because of my lack of English written skills, despite the fact I've been writing copy in English for ages.

English is not my first language and my manager knew that since interview stage. In fact, at the interview I had to write a press release as a test and she loved it.

I think this was just an excuse because my manager didn't like me. She was the bitchy style, loves gossip and badmouthing colleagues behind their back.

She was always making changes to my copy and she said on her report that this was due to my poor knowledge of the English language and it was taking too much of her time. I was shocked to hear this because the changes she did to my copy was basically saying the same but choosing different words. For example, instead of saying "it's a well known event", she would write "it's a world class event". This doesn't mean that I have a poor knowledge of the English language, it only means that she has a different way of writing! And very often I didn't even agree with her changes because she was too formal, and I wanted something more easy going to attract especific customers.

She didn't even mention before that my English was annoying her like this. I only knew it in the meeting when she told me I was being fired.

I think it's so unfair, because the real reason I was fired is that she doesn't like me, I don't join the gossip and I don't act like she's the queen of the world (other girls there do it and she loves it).

Now on my HR report it says that I was fired due to my lack of English knowledge and I'm just concerned that this can be a problem if an employer contacts the company for references.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Take it easy, miss.

The truth probably is that she just needed some reason
or the other to lay you off, and chose this one because
it sounds more authentic.

It was just a cost-cutting measure and from now on SHE
will be doing all of your work also.

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n7 Studios

15 years ago

All you can do is be honest - explain to prospective employers why you were made redundant from your previous job, and be upfront - provide examples of your work, and take any tests they may wish to give you.

If you can prove your ability, no employer will take a reference too seriously - especially if you prove your ability in front of the employer i.e by writing a test press release or something similar.

It won't be easy, but you can do it.

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tomw

15 years ago

As far as I'm aware (as an employer of hundreds of people over the years!) this is not sufficient grounds for dismissal. Other than in cases of gross misconduct, there is a very specific procedure that employers need to follow when it comes to terminating an employee's contract of employment.

Not to mention very strict regulations concerning racial discrimination.

I would seek legal advice immediately...at the very least I would seek redress concerning your HR report!

Thomas

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Texson5

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

As far as I'm aware (as an employer of hundreds of people over the years!) this is not sufficient grounds for dismissal. Other than in cases of gross misconduct, there is a very specific procedure that employers need to follow when it comes to terminating an employee's contract of employment.

Not to mention very strict regulations concerning racial discrimination.

I would seek legal advice immediately...at the very least I would seek redress concerning your HR report!

Thomas

I agree with Tom.

My mom owns a business and there are guidelines that must be followed.

Get some legal advise.

As for English Dominating the world, I agree with Bigsofty. The fact that
English has become a universal language has helped make it easier for people all over the world to communicate and do business or make new friends.

Jess

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TE2

15 years ago

Originally Posted by missgreentea

Now on my HR report it says that I was fired due to my lack of English knowledge and I'm just concerned that this can be a problem if an employer contacts the company for references.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Assuming you are in the USA, then don't worry about it. It's rare that a new employer will contact your past employer and if they do, the old employer will not give out any information other than to confirm you worked there and for how long. There are rare exceptions, but that is pretty much how it's done these days.

Why? Because the old employer could be liable for damages if they say something wrong about you and you end up suing them. They usually do their best to say as little as possible to avoid problems. In fact, some may actually say something positive about you.

Leave the baggage behind, move on, and be happy. As the the saying goes, when one door closes, another one opens.

Enjoy the journey!

Regards,

John

ps - Since you found this forum, study it and then take action. You may find something even better like... not needing a job because you can make money online.

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ndcole78 15 years ago

Tomw---In many states in the US, such as Mississippi where I'm originally from, legally the employer doesn't have to give you a reason for being fired. It sounds silly, but that's the law in Mississippi as well as other states. My father is an attorney.

Also, there is a secret code that employers go by. If your potential employer calls your old employer and asks about your work there and your former employer simply says, "No comment" then that's the code to not hire this person.

Not trying to scare you or anything, but you do need to know the reality of how things work in the corporate world.

I say---take this as your opportunity to work for yourself---forget punching a time clock.
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- Kay King 15 years ago
  
  Yes, in the US labor laws vary by State.
  
  There is a bigger picture here. Rising unemployment provides a huge base of workers for employers to choose from.
  
  Some of them will terminate employees who are good but not great because great employees are now available at the same salary. That's reality today.
  
  kay
  
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Aronya

15 years ago

Ironically, the OP's post is better written than MANY of the posts on this forum. Gratefully, this thread is not representative of that statement.

I'm just sayin'...

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Kay King

15 years ago

I don't see mentioned how long the OP worked in this job. Was it weeks, months, years?

Many companies hire on a provisional basis and employees that meet the requirements of the job then become permanent. Employers list a specific reason (failure to meet job requirements) because it avoids lawsuits.

kay

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Texson5

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't see mentioned how long the OP worked in this job. Was it weeks, months, years?

Many companies hire on a provisional basis and employees that meet the requirements of the job then become permanent. Employers list a specific reason (failure to meet job requirements) because it avoids lawsuits.

kay

This is great advise for all of us.

When things we are pursuing are not working out then take a time out.

Write down what you think your strengths and weaknesses are and then ask a close friend or family member to do the same. Do not show them what you wrote down until you have read what they wrote.

Compare notes and go from there.

Jess

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A8ch

15 years ago

Originally Posted by missgreentea

Last week I was fired from my position as a PR Consultant because of my lack of English written skills, despite the fact I've been writing copy in English for ages.

Now on my HR report it says that I was fired due to my lack of English knowledge and I'm just concerned that this can be a problem if an employer contacts the company for references.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Getting fired is never a pleasant experience, but it can be an opportunity for you to take a close look at your strengths and weaknesses and then figure out how to proceed.

If you intend to stay in your field, you might want to consider a remedial English course of some sort that focuses on grammar and syntax. That might be all you need to refine your writing skills. Alternatively, you may want to pursue something that challenges other talents and experiences you possess.

As far as your HR report is concerned, I wouldn't worry too much about the "lack of English knowledge" criticism. Here's why:

Judging from your written post and the relatively minor grammatical infractions it contained, I'd guess that your verbal skills are actually quite fluent, especially for a second language. You express yourself better than some for whom English is their native tongue.

Your initial interview with any prospective employer will be face-to-face and she'll be paying attention to how you express yourself. If you have an accent, she'll know that English is not your first tongue.

Unless you mangle the language when you speak, most interviewers you encounter will likely only speak English and will quietly admire your bi-lingual skill. That fact will help cast suspicion on your HR report, if they even check at all.

If your interviewer is herself bi-lingual, she's likely to be more understanding of your HR report fears and you'll have her empathy.

So, just put your head down, get on with finding a job and let the chips fall where they may.

All the best to you!

Hermas

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33233

15 years ago

Originally Posted by missgreentea

Last week I was fired from my position as a PR Consultant because of my lack of English written skills, despite the fact I've been writing copy in English for ages.

English is not my first language and my manager knew that since interview stage. In fact, at the interview I had to write a press release as a test and she loved it.

I think this was just an excuse because my manager didn't like me. She was the bitchy style, loves gossip and badmouthing colleagues behind their back.

She was always making changes to my copy and she said on her report that this was due to my poor knowledge of the English language and it was taking too much of her time. I was shocked to hear this because the changes she did to my copy was basically saying the same but choosing different words. For example, instead of saying "it's a well known event", she would write "it's a world class event". This doesn't mean that I have a poor knowledge of the English language, it only means that she has a different way of writing! And very often I didn't even agree with her changes because she was too formal, and I wanted something more easy going to attract especific customers.

She didn't even mention before that my English was annoying her like this. I only knew it in the meeting when she told me I was being fired.

I think it's so unfair, because the real reason I was fired is that she doesn't like me, I don't join the gossip and I don't act like she's the queen of the world (other girls there do it and she loves it).

Now on my HR report it says that I was fired due to my lack of English knowledge and I'm just concerned that this can be a problem if an employer contacts the company for references.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Being fired is pretty rough on the ego. While it does not feel good it is almost always in the end a BIG blessing. Everytime it has happened to me it has resulted in a life course change that I am so thankful for in retrospect.
At some point in your life you need to keep your own counsel on how good you are at what ever it is you are being evaluated for. Take what you can use from the event and then throw out the rest. AND NEVER allow yourself to beat up on you.
Something much better is on the way to you and now you are available.

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bigcullie

15 years ago

Sorry to here about this, but your English is fine, in fact better than mine and I am native Scottish.

I feel I know what is going on and basically you have to appear to be playing the game like the rest of the staff you mention. This does not mean you have to like it, but you have to give the impression that you are one of them.

Also, you do not know how ambitious this boss is. She could be using you as the scape goat to the rest of your colleagues, by saying "If you lot do not toe the line, you will be next", and that tactic works. So it may not be all about you.

Now it is sad when this happens, all the life is drained out of you and you are left feeling deflated and useless. This you must not believe. My first impression is if that is the way the company operates, it is better to get out now than later.

You will have to pick yourself up, learn from it and put it behind you. Now this is very easy for me to say, as I know what you are going through. Rest assured that there is some company out there desperate for your skills, it certain was not the one you were working for. Put them behind you and show everyone what you are really made of.

I hope this helps.

Gordon.

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calvinaj

15 years ago

English - gosh it scares me. But I don't write to pass English grammar test.

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Christie Love

15 years ago

Wow, that sucks. All I can say is... don't give up. Since you are now unemployeed take this extra time to practice your writing skills daily.

You can start on the forum. Advertise your writing services in your sig and put up specials in the WSO section. I'm sure you'll get lots of work here.

Even though English is not your first language, I can see you've worked hard to get where you are. Keep it up and don't quit.

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bambi211

15 years ago

There is no harm in learning more about English and proper grammar. I believe that you have the talent to write so don't stop. Practice everyday. For sure, you will have a better job.

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Scott Murdaugh

15 years ago

I'm just wondering what's your basis in saying that her English is not at a professional writing level?

I meant exactly what I said. I can tell from reading her post that it's not her native language, conversational or not.

I'm not being offensive, I told her not to let it get her down. You'll never see non-native English on my websites. It may be good enough for some people, but you'll never see broken English on any of my sites.

That's what I mean by "not professional". I wouldn't hire her, I don't blame anyone else for not hiring her either.

That being said, she's pretty fluent, and not far from writing at a professional level. As I mentioned in my first post, hiring a proofreader could probably solve the problem.

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Ken Strong

15 years ago

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

That being said, she's pretty fluent, and not far from writing at a professional level. As I mentioned in my first post, hiring a proofreader could probably solve the problem.

Agreed -- all that would be needed is to run written materials through a quick editing by someone.

But that's for business writing and that type of thing -- if we're talking direct response copywriting, that's a whole different skill and really requires a native speaker-level grasp of conversational English. I don't think it works well if written by committee.

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mikeink

15 years ago

Your English not as bad as some that I have seen. The English language is not an easy language to learn. it is a mixture of many forms of languages.

I have seen some professional people writings that are much worst than this. Some words may have different meanings, except that the spelling is different or the same.

By changing a word or words in a article it will have complete different context (meaning). There is a play on words in here also.

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BigBenForCanton

15 years ago

I've seen 'professionals' on many forums who can't grasp the difference between 'than' and 'then'. 'Than' is used to compare. Even though it sounds like 'then'. I'd rather have acid poured in my eyes 'THAN' read bad grammar. THEN, I'll promptly seek medical attention.

Another thing I saw on this very forum--from a so-called 'expert'--was somebody talking about practicing their writing everyday. IT'S EVERY DAY unless you're using it as an adjective. For example, John was tired of ruining his new slacks so he decided to use a pair of his everyday pants instead.

If you can't grasp the basics of grammar why should I be buying anything from you? I won't, and you'd be surprised that countless people feel the same way. It destroys credibility. Make it a point to communicate effectively.

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bigideaguy

15 years ago

I am also not a native english speaker, and i get picked on when i pronounce a few words wrong. I am only a freshman in college, but i can relate to you still.

I think your boss should have helped you and given you some time to work on your very sleight errors.

Work on your writing so that you can present this to future employers and explain yourself, they will most likely ask you about it, DO NOT LIE OR BLAME IT ON HER ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO FUTURE EMPLOYERS!!

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Fired due to poor English skills

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