Getting GOOD experience as a newbie

10 replies
Hey all,

I just used the search feature and searched 'no experience' and didn't come up with anything so I'll just post this up.

I'm new to copywriting. I've always been a passionate writer and I've been told I'm quite persuasive (I think I have a good handle of human psychology), but now I'd like to monetize this passion and ready myself to have a constant source of location-independent income. Also, I'm very interested in the copywriter's work ethic. I ultimately aspire to be a fiction writer someday and I figure that the persistence and focus I need to develop as a good copywriter will be useful for barreling through the writer's block I always succumbed to when I started writing fiction a few years back.

I've written long blog posts on my personal site seandominguez DOT com and wrote a couple of articles on EzineArticles as practice. While my posts serve the purpose of driving traffic to my site as I try to build some authority in the domain of self-improvement and startups, they don't really do anything in terms of giving me the experience I need to make good money freelancing. I'm looking on oDesk and I see all these folks who want copywriters with "proven results". I think to myself, "what can I prove? I don't have a product to sell, nor do I know anyone who is willing to give me a chance to write copy for them since I have no experience". Essentially, the chicken and the egg.

For example, my brother just showed me DropDeadCopy DOT com and this guy seems to have a lot of great experience figuring out landing pages. But how does anyone figure out the science of landing pages unless they themselves have a bunch of clients/their own product to learn from? That's the kind of experience I want.

Might be a bit long-winded so I'll get to the point:

1.) How can I get GOOD experience with lots of learning involved? I'm honestly willing to work for extremely cheap (or even free) if someone's willing to give me a good review and useful feedback about what's converting and what's not and what's good and what's not. However, when I browse oDesk it seems as if I'll be writing for cheap and learning nothing (being a hired hand who is immediately discarded as soon as feedback is exchanged).

2.) After reading the very useful sticky post, I see that my experience is more in the realm of article writing vs. copywriting. I'm sure copywriting pays more money due to the nature of the biz, but how much can a good article writer make?

3.) Sort of off topic from copywriting, but how do you guys feel about the nature of a lot of online products? I was so turned off from internet marketing a while back because of the 3:00am infomercial vibe I got from really scummy types. But while browsing oDesk, I saw a gig that paid $3000 to write copy like the kind on commission-cash-code.com. While I watched the video, laughed, and rolled my eyes (and found out on here that the guy featured in the video is an actor and payments go to Estonia), the idea of making $2k or $3k here and there to write copy for terrible products seems pretty enticing.

4.) I'm willing to put my heart and soul into getting good at copywriting because I love writing, I love the challenge, and I love what the experience could do for me as I start other entrepreneurial endeavors. Given this, how long do you think it would take me to make $150 a day and how much do copywriters charge an hour (or is it project based?)

Thanks for reading my long as hell post. All help is suuuuper appreciated.
#article writing #experience #good #newbie #no experience #noobie
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    First, clarify what you want to do. You're asking for information on both article writing and copywriting, and most here have experience in copywriting primarily. I've done article writing and don't anymore, unless it's for my own personal projects or as a favor to someone I know.

    Second, you read the stickies. Those books that come highly recommended? They are a gold mine. They tell you everything from how to find clients to how to test copy.

    Third, the best advice I can give from having been there is to learn as much as you can and get out there and DO it. Build yourself a good foundation based on technical knowledge, either by studying those books, buying into a copywriting program, or paying a mentor. Then get out there and learn by doing. That was the only way I was ever able to connect my book learning to the real world, by trying things for myself.

    Good luck. With persistence, this is a rewarding career that pays off. No one can tell you how quickly you'll be making the money you want to make. Only you can determine that by getting on this and starting ASAP.
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    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Read the stickies, hang out, get to know people, build relationships.

    Also go through the archives and read up. Almost no one does this--most just want all their questions answered in their first post--okay, kidding.

    Seriously, read through the archives. There's a gold mine in there.
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    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author underworld90
    Already some good advice has been offered. There's a lot for you to read and digest.

    If I can add just one of my own: always be learning. You will fail many times with your writing. The best copywriters are the ones that can learn from their mistakes. And no matter how good you will get, even Ogilvy level good, you will still have failures. Keep learning.
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  • Profile picture of the author stemdrea
    Read all the books you can on copywriting. While you're reading practice writing bullet point's from the material you're reading. Find (google) a copy of The Gary Halbert Letter "Lets do the twist". It's all about writing bullet points. Start getting good at bullet points. You can create headlines from them, subheadings, and so much more from good bullet points. Start there and keep practicing. Practice everyday.

    Goodluck...ml
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  • Profile picture of the author dominoz
    Thanks for the advice all. I have read the stickies and that's why I was trying to get a bit more specific with my questions (trying to elicit anecdotal responses). My most specific question at this point would be this: what's the pay difference between article writing and copywriting? I'm sure that copywriting gets paid more simply because its purpose is to evoke a response from a reader, but since I have more training doing article writing at this point, I'm sure I'll have to start that route before landing copywriting gigs.
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  • In general, copywriting pays much more than article writing. A few years ago, a member of this forum related that he made $4,000 from the first sales letter he ever wrote for a client. He charges much more now. Others regular posters here charge $5k, $10k, $15k, $30k and more. If you can get on their schedule.

    There are also copywriters charging a few hundred dollars a letter. They reach a different market segment but are busy as well.

    There is much more demand for good copy than people that can produce it. Sales letters, email copy, landing pages, marketing material, sales funnels, etc.

    But they don't hand out big fees to pretenders. You have to have the goods. That comes from blistering hard work and study.

    Seriously, a lot of this is in the archives. You'll learn a lot. Good luck.
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    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    If you're serious about copywriting, make sure you study some resources on the business of copywriting. Read the Wealthy Freelancer and Peter Bowerman's book, The Well-Fed Writer.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketMyko
    On the oDesk aspect of things, as someone who's had oDesk experience as well, I'd suggest your really buildup on your profile as well. Take the tests, beef up your portfolio, and try to get hourly rates instead of the fixed-price jobs. After a few hours and some good reviews under your belt, you can start increasing your rates and find jobs best suited to your tastes. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    Copy good sales letters by hand.

    The Gary Halbert Letter
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    Site being revamped.

    If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

    Cool.

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  • Profile picture of the author Anthony Carrera
    1. copywriting is not like writing for anything else
    2. learn sales first as copywriting is SALESMANSHIP IN PRINT

    once youve learned sales then unlearn all the stuff you know about "correct" writing puctuation and all of that because the only point of copywriting is to make a sale

    get a swipe file of gary halberts top letters you can find them anywhere print them out then sit down with a pen and a paper and write them out by hand... notice the headline, the lead in, the body copy the segues the offers and guarantees....
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