Need to Hire a Copywriter (Screwed up last time) - Need Advice!

There's really not much difference between a vsl or written copy, in fact you can call one a script and the other text... just a label. One is read by a voice over along with either graphics, text, cartoons, all of the above etc, and the other is plain text read by the user.

What I prefer is start w/ the vsl, but if someone tries to leave the page have an exit pop that loads the text only page in case the visitor prefers reading over a video. Good way to salvage sales.

So with that in mind most copywriters don't "make" the vsl, they just write the script and then it's up to you to add the visuals and the voice.

Personally I also do video and voice for my clients that want an all in one solution.

Sucks you hired someone who jumped ship and won't re-write. What I would want to know is the incentive. Yes, he/she should do a redo if that was part of your initial deal...

But to really sweeten the pot for you and whoever you hire, you should get in bed together. Meaning have a royalty agreement. Any copywriter worth their weight knows they stand to make a whole bunch more from royalties than a quick one shot flat fee.

People work harder and do a better job when they have a vested interest. (OK, I might be speaking for myself here but at least that's how it should be)

Just curious, what was your conv rate and what do you expect? How much traffic did you run? Was it targeted or junk?

Best,

An often overlooked part in this forum,
is the product damn good or a dud?

A copywriter who is a wee bit desperate will see the money
to be made, with little thought to the validity of the product in the marketplace.

He or she has to have that awareness, because the product owner will
think it's the best thing since sliced bread was invented!

And for the copywriter who is only chasing the money,
will have a hard time looking the product owner in the eye
and say...

"sorry, but what you have here won't fly as it is,
therefore in true conscience I can't take your money."

Of course, the copywriter can negotiate a fee for ways to improve the product.

Knowing nothing about your product, I can't say this was the case though.

However, to be brutally honest with yourself in hindsight,
this is something to consider.

Best,
Ewen

I'd really be interested to see the copy and learn how you drove traffic.

I also agree with what Ewen said: How MIND-BLOWING is the product?

That being said...

You've already dropped more than a few bills, so you obviously believe in what you're trying to bring to market.

Email me... mark@reflectionmarketing.com

I'd love to see what you have (including the product.) That kind of determines everything else.

Oh...

And in terms of a VSL.

I just got back from being involved in the actual production process of a half live actor/half slideshow type VSL.

A lot of copywriters have a hard time resonating their copy with the voice and presentation aspects of the VSL. Ideally, the copywriter can work directly with the person producing it.

I do things like putting in parenthesis what is only spoken and not shown on the screen. But it's got to be clear on exactly how you're executing the vision you and the copywriter brainstorm. Otherwise, the end product won't jack you up (or generate conversions) like the picture you had in your imagination during the creative/conceptual stages.

Mark

I once wrote a sales letter (my first paid copy) for a guy that put him #9 in clickbank B2B category inside of 10 days. Two days after that CB pulled the offer because of a 90% refund rate. Sh*tty product. He should have listened...

EDIT: Not suggesting the OP's product is substandard, just sayin'

Thanks for the support on this!

Don: I did cut the guy from $10k down to $7.5k for 10% royalty, which helped, but I could only stretch his patience to stick with it so far. It would have been great if he stayed, but I also understand why he left as well.

Ewen: In my opinion, pretty clearly, the product sucked. It was a DVD of a seminar featuring a bunch of speakers all speaking on different topics... in other words, it didn't solve a specific problem. And no, it was not "mind-blowing."

Mark: Emailing you now.

Travlinguy: Indeed it was substandard.

The product I've got now is problem-solving based and has a much better hook. It features me as the expert and I give seriously useful advice. It's selling much better than the one I sold before, but it's still not where I want.

But I could still use guidance on how exactly to hire someone. Best advice I got so far was in Gary Bencivenga's 100 Seminar where he said to ask how many controls they have.

But other than that in the past I just went with these factors... price, how professional they sounded, how enthusiastic they were, and whether they had past niche experience.

I understand your issues. As a content and copywriter I know that not everything I write has the effect that clients want. Sometimes it can be the copy and sometimes it might be the product or the fact that the client's expectations are too high and unrealistic. I'd say that going to peers on WF and seeing if they will offer recommendations on good writers is a good way to go. That said, if you find a good writer that you can work well with, establish a positive professional relationship that is long-term.

I know that on my end- as a writer - I appreciate that type of treatment and will stick with clients that I like working with. Finally, I'd agree with the comment above that having some other people take an objective look at the product and the copy might be a good start. Once you are invested in a project you might not see it as clearly. One other suggestion might be to just ask a different copywriter to do a review and revision on what your first copywriter did. That should be way less expensive than a project from scratch and you can even split-test the two copywriting sales pages and see which one works the best. Lynn

I suggest you buy a couple of books on copywriting first. It will help you know what to look for in a good copywriter when it's time again.

At least you've learnt from the experience - even if it was a costly discovery. My advice to you would be to a) work with someone who has a proven track record b) get a contract in place which includes revisions and c) look for someone who can work with you as a marketing consultant and not just a copywriter.

I've had clients in the past who have been very difficult to work with, but a great strategy I've learnt is to have a clear vision and your goals defined properly. When you have your initial briefing with your new copywriter, you both need to agree on a timeline of deliverables to not only keep the project on track, but to help you deal with potential problems should they arise.

Most of the time when both the client AND the copywriter know what to expect, it makes the whole process easy and seamless and at least you both know where you stand.

Best of luck finding someone...I don't do the dating niche, otherwise I'd have been happy to help...

i think the most important step would be to get a copywriter who has shown PROOF that they can get the kind of results you're looking for.

Since you've gone through Gary B's 100 seminar, you know Gary is huge on proof.

so, at this point, i wouldn't even worry about whether you're doing a written letter or a video... you want to find a copywriter who can sell... and one that's going to give you the kind of results and conversions you want.

again, proof and past results is usually a pretty good indicator. people tend to hire copywriters who have that proof... because if they have solid proof, it usually means they're good and will get you where you want to be.

good salesmanship is what you're after... MORE so than a copywriter who can do video sales letters. because the most important thing is that the letter converts... and that boils down to salesmanship.

the video making can always be outsourced and done by others... but if the copy and sales script isn't good... it won't matter if it's a video sales letter or written.

it all starts and ends with the sales presentation... the medium (video vs written) comes next. yes, how it's presented is important, but a written sales letter using proven principles of salesmanship will usually convert better than a video sales letter with poor copy.

jbrett,

I can't speak for other copywriters, but the first thing I do when a new client approaches me is ensure their product is excellent.

Because unless you out-and-out lie (and I refuse to), the better the product is, the more compelling you can make the sales copy. And the better the product will sell.

(My own ethics that play into it too, but that's irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.)

You're saying you've got a better product, and it's already selling. Great!

If I were you, I'd look for several things in your prospective copywriter:

1) They have a strong track record - not only of creating results, but that they stick by their clients when their copy bombs (and it happens to all of us).

2) You feel a bond with them - almost like you guys could be friends. Not saying you have to become friends, but resonating with them/being on the same page with them in many ways helps them get your message across better.

3) You like their writing style.

I'd also be prepared to pay an upfront fee + royalties (which it seems you already are) - the up front fee to let your CW know you're not a time-waster, the royalties to keep them as keen on the project as you are.

Kind regards,

-Daniel

There are some amazing copywriters here at WSO, but they are expensive! Well worth the money though if you're looking for some high quality copywriters.

Hi All,

As a copywriter I did a rewrite of the original "get your ex back" series, several years ago... I completed a series of copy edits of the original copy to split test to boost the conversions and help reduce the bounce rate.

I have to be honest here...

This was a really tough job to get the hook and the lead in right on the split tests.

The dating and relationships niche is really tricky to convert, even with a smokin' hot product.

Why? Because getting conversions in this market is tougher than most health/relationsip related niches because it is a very emotionally charged subject.

Being authentic (i.e. that you listen to their sadness and HEAR THEM, AND YOU CAN SOLVE THEIR RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM) is tough to convey. It is critical to get right, if you miss that then visitors won't trust you and with this sensitive niche, trust AND BELIEF IN YOU AND YOUR PRODUCT is the key to getting high conversions.

FYI - The lack of good, believable testimonials (OR HAVING POOR ONES..) can make or break the conversions...

That is something to think about...

Some copywriters can really get into the groove of relationship/love/sex type of copywriting -- but it is a very touchy niche to write for.

I have found it is very difficult to 'nail the right emotional flavor and tone AND TRUST' of this type of copy to get them to read the whole thing and click that button to buy.

I agree you would definitely want to hire a copywriter with a proven track record with this niche. To be honest even though I do write in the relationship niche on occasion it is not my preferred niche.

As far as sales letter text versus VSL.

I always split test text copy first, then when I get a good conversion rate on the sales letter (which is easier to split test than a VSL) I take the 'meat' out of the sales letter and ramp it up to create the video.

I have found the, sweet spot on my VSLs is 7 minutes or about 1200 words.

People are impatient and 7 minutes is about the length of the average attention span.

So do your best to get the message across in 7 minutes if possible, because it is hard to keep the energy level high for over 7 minutes. That is unless you extend the video with a lot of awesome bonuses at the end.

I use Ryan Deiss's Video Sales Letter Formula, you can check it out there on the Warrior Forum too.

Also if you are going to launch this on Clickbank, just know, it is getting tougher and tougher to get products approved on Clickbank.

On my last 2 launches, it took 3 tries to get CB to approve them... they are really getting picky with disclaimers and such. So be sure you plan on spending time ( and budget extra money) for rewrites to get CB approval if you are thinking of having CB affiliates.

Good luck with your new launch!

Jennie

Before hiring a copywriter you should get some example from him to ensure that he worked before and also have necessary skills that you are looking for.

Hey, Really interesting posts everyone. Just want to point out that I have found a huge difference between long copy and VSLs (video sales letter). The modern day VSL has put a twist on the old long copy form.. and if you can do it right, and get the traffic then conversions can go crazy (I just had one go from .5% conversion rate to 3.1% on a high traffic site)... some copywriters I know that were experts at getting conversions with long copy, actually had conversion rates drop with a VSL, from experience a great long copy writer doesn't make a great VSL writer so if you want a VSL hire someone who has had proven results with VSLs. Again all depends on the niche I guess, I tend to be in the dating and personal development niches.