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How to command the fees you deserve as a pro copywriter

by shawnlebrun
18 replies
let's face it, as copywriters... we all run into prospects who will ask us if we can lower our fee and do the project for less.

I'm not a big fan in lowering fees because it rewards the "cheaper" ones who will almost never be satisfied... and penalizes the ones who value good copy and are willing to pay you what you're worth.

But i get it, we're all put in that situation.

Here's the easiest way I've found to stick to your guns, keep your fees intact, and make the prospect WANT to pay those fees.

And, by the way, it's 100% if you're a copywriter.

When someone asks you to lower your fee, you simply respond with...

-----------------------------

"Most of my clients don't want the cheapest price... they want what works.

The most expensive piece of copy is one that doesn't convert.

There's a good reason I'm asking ____ and it's to give me enough time to do your job right. I want to make sure I have enough time to think of all the ways I can make this a success. That's important to you, right, that this project succeeds?

Sure, I can lower my fees, but I'd end up spending a lot less time on this project, and that may mean a lower response rate.

I just want the time to do the job right, which is why I'm quoting that fee"

---------------------------

If you're a business owner, who doesn't want their project to succeed. so if you can show the business owner that you are asking for more so you can spend more time on the project, so it has a better chance of success, most business owners won't balk at that.

It's 100% true and benefits both the copywriter and the business owner.
#command #copywriter #deserve #fees #pro
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    It's all the same skillset as writing sales copy, really. Negotiation is part of sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jomuli3
    One way of dealing with difficult clients who want cheap goods or service is to give them what they want without lowering the value of what you are offering.

    If you do it by offering low quality product, it will boomerang on you.

    Why?

    You should value repeat business. A lot of businessmen make tons of money from repeat business. Give them poor quality product. They will never explain to their associates that you could give better quality product ; only that they did not have enough money. You reduce the number of prospects in such a way. They will also never come to you after recording low conversion rates.

    Give them good quality service as they want. Tell them to pay the balance later. Make sure that if they are in business they are able to use your product or service to realize that balance within a reasonable period using your product or service.

    I can see. You are considering the issue of them never paying the balance.

    Well, it all rests on the issue of trust. This you could create through pre-selling of your service. Make them trust you. People, usually, do not want to disappoint those they trust.

    Empower them to make money by accepting part payment. Ask them to pay the balance later after they have utilized your service. Clearly explain this to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

    let's face it, as copywriters... we all run into prospects who will ask us if we can lower our fee and do the project for less.

    I'm not a big fan in lowering fees because it rewards the "cheaper" ones who will almost never be satisfied... and penalizes the ones who value good copy and are willing to pay you what you're worth.

    But i get it, we're all put in that situation.

    Here's the easiest way I've found to stick to your guns, keep your fees intact, and make the prospect WANT to pay those fees.

    And, by the way, it's 100% if you're a copywriter.

    When someone asks you to lower your fee, you simply respond with...

    -----------------------------

    "Most of my clients don't want the cheapest price... they want what works.

    The most expensive piece of copy is one that doesn't convert.

    There's a good reason I'm asking ____ and it's to give me enough time to do your job right. I want to make sure I have enough time to think of all the ways I can make this a success. That's important to you, right, that this project succeeds?

    Sure, I can lower my fees, but I'd end up spending a lot less time on this project, and that may mean a lower response rate.

    I just want the time to do the job right, which is why I'm quoting that fee"

    ---------------------------

    If you're a business owner, who doesn't want their project to succeed. so if you can show the business owner that you are asking for more so you can spend more time on the project, so it has a better chance of success, most business owners won't balk at that.

    It's 100% true and benefits both the copywriter and the business owner.
    I disagree.

    1. Prospects and Clients DO NOT CARE how much time it takes you to write copy. I'm in no way calling you a rookie Shawn, but using the length of time to write good copy as a "chip" in the negotiations of the project price is a mistake rookies make. It backfires.

    2. Clients have no way of verifying how much time it really takes you to write their copy, so naturally they'll be skeptical. Do you really want to insert that skepticism into the conversation?

    Unconsciously, the prospect will be thinking "BS." And rightly so.

    3. Clients will often gladly pay A PREMIUM for you dropping everything and getting their project done FASTER.

    4. Some prospects believe you taking more time indicates you don't know what you're doing. Implying you're learning on their nickel.

    I believe you immediately and significantly devalue yourself as a copywriter when you talk about how much time it takes you to write.

    It should be avoided, not embraced. My opinion.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
      hey rick,

      sure, your opinion is welcomed... i actually learned that entire negotiating strategy from Gary Bencivenga... his words and his strategy... and i side with him on it, because it's worked every single time for me.

      again, opinions are great, and to each his own... but when i heard Gary say that... and i used it, it worked without fail... so that's why i continue and will continue to use it, because it works and has helped me, in the easiest way, to never barter anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

        hey rick,

        sure, your opinion is welcomed... i actually learned that entire negotiating strategy from Gary Bencivenga... his words and his strategy... and i side with him on it, because it's worked every single time for me.

        again, opinions are great, and to each his own... but when i heard Gary say that... and i used it, it worked without fail... so that's why i continue and will continue to use it, because it works and has helped me, in the easiest way, to never barter anymore.
        Shawn,

        No disrespect but Gary was in a league of his own. Other than a small handful of other A-Listers like Clayton Makepeace and Arthur Johnson, he was arguably alpha-dog... a position that 99% of all copywriters don't achieve.

        That gave him significant leverage... if you wanted Gary to write your copy then you HAD to agree to his terms. Otherwise, one of the dozens of companies lined up behind you would gladly hire Gary instead.

        Gary spent the bulk of his freelance years writing for the major mailers which are a completely different type of copywriting client.

        I've written copy for 4 major mailers to date. Every single one of them insisted I quote by the project (fee plus royalties) and not how much time I believe I'd spend on the project.

        Honestly, they didn't care how much time I spent. They didn't care if I worked 20 hours/day for weeks or months on their project either.

        They just want me to deliver great copy in as many different formats and with as many different supporting materials (like teaser copy, lift notes, etc) as they needed.

        My 3 cents,

        Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      1. Prospects and Clients DO NOT CARE how much time it takes you to write copy.
      Absolutely!

      It doesn't matter if client who is launching their first ever product or one of the major mailers... they don't care how many hours you put in writing their copy.

      They want copy that converts well.

      It's still really important to meet promised deadlines but if it's a matter of needing another day or so to get the copy perfect, than 95% of the time clients will say okay... even the major mailers.

      3. Clients will often gladly pay A PREMIUM for you dropping everything and getting their project done FASTER.
      That's been my experience too. I've had more than one client pay a 50% premium to jump ahead in my schedule.


      I believe you immediately and significantly devalue yourself as a copywriter when you talk about how much time it takes you to write.

      It should be avoided, not embraced. My opinion.

      - Rick Duris
      I mostly agree. I have had times where a new client is surprised that I'm not quoting a week or less turnaround time. In those instances, it's because they aren't familiar with how time-consuming writing top-notch sales copy can be. In those instances, I explain how much time the "average" project takes me and what some of the things I'm doing in each project before I write a word might be.

      But also I tell them that the amount of time I wind up spending on a project is as much time as I need to deliver my high-quality work. It's the high-quality marketing I write that they're ultimately paying for.

      My 3 cents,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    1. Prospects and Clients DO NOT CARE how much time it takes you to write copy. I'm in no way calling you a rookie Shawn, but using the length of time to write good copy as a "chip" in the negotiations of the project price is a mistake rookies make. It backfires.
    I think you're misunderstanding Shawn's point slightly.

    It seems you think that he's saying "tell the client you need more time because that way he'll realize that you're exerting a lot of effort and want to compensate you for it."

    That kind of appeal to pity is indeed a rookie mistake (always appeal to self interest, of course), but I'm not sure that's what Shawn is quite saying.

    It seems that he's suggesting you should explain the amount of time, research, re-writing etc that goes into writing a good sales letter, because understanding this will help the client see how crucial it is to pay for something that's actually good. The idea being, you show the client how much goes into writing a sales letter that actually SELLS; that it's not just something they could figure out in a day.

    I'll be honest, I've never tried this approach before, but I could see it working.

    The trick, I think, would be to combine it with a LOT of proof; to show the client what kind of results top copywriters can get, and why scrimping on sales copy is actually THROWING AWAY MONEY in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Shawn, understood. Can you direct us specifically to where you saw Gary discussing this?

    I must be missing something. In fact, I'm sure I'm missing something.

    Because there's no way on God's green Earth it makes sense for a copywriter to denominate their value and their copy's value based upon how long it takes to write it.It'd be like valuing copy based upon how many words it contains.

    Regardless, if it's working for you, you should continue doing it.

    Thanks in advance,

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author OutOfThisWord
      One of Hemingway's relatives recently released archives that revealed 39 different endings for 'A Farewell To Arms.'

      Certainly clients that don't value the 'time' it takes to do good work, whether it's copy or a layout or whatever, are simply not good clients.

      The way I frame it so they can get it - is talk about the time it takes to research... about their product, their competitors, their target market and whether the media has slanted views we must hurdle.

      Then I immediately start asking them pointed questions about their product, their competitors and their target market...

      ...and they soon realize there's more to competent sales writing that spitting out some slogan.
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    • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Shawn, understood. Can you direct us specifically to where you saw Gary discussing this?

      I must be missing something. In fact, I'm sure I'm missing something.

      - Rick Duris
      hey rick,

      of course... if you go to his seminar transcript... it's pages 248-250... under subhead "insist on time to do job right"
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Thank you so much, Shawn! Hopefully I'll be able to take a look later this weekend.

    Thanks again,

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Hey Mike,

    I agree with you 100%!

    To me, Gary's one of the best who has ever lived when it comes to copywriting.

    Mike, you mentioned you've written for 4 major mailers, was it like John Carlton said... taking years off your life?

    Honestly, I've had chances to write for one of them... but those words that John said in his freelance course has always kept me away... where he said "writing for the major mailers was like taking years off your life"

    did you find that to be true, Mike? Of course, you don't have to answer that... if you know what I mean :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      Mike, you mentioned you've written for 4 major mailers, was it like John Carlton said... taking years off your life?

      Honestly, I've had chances to write for one of them... but those words that John said in his freelance course has always kept me away... where he said "writing for the major mailers was like taking years off your life"

      did you find that to be true, Mike? Of course, you don't have to answer that... if you know what I mean :-)
      The short answer is it depends.

      It depends on your personality... who you work with in a given mailer (i.e. veteran marketer vs. rookie with little marketing experience)... and your ability or willingness to deal with office politics should they arise.

      But they fully expect any freelance copywriter they hire to have the complete goods and be able to deliver great copy consistently.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    At the end of the day...

    The only person who gives a rat's a$$ about the length of time you spend on a project is... YOU.

    When I give out a quote, I make sure to factor in my time.

    After all...

    Like many people have said here before, if you don't charge WHAT YOU NEED to make a living, you're time (and your mind) will be consumed with getting to the next gig.

    That's in nobody's best interest.

    Deadline wise...

    Even when my client leaves things open-ended, I always tell them when I'll complete the project - unless something unforeseen happens, of course.

    And by the way...

    It all evens out.

    In the last month alone, I had one project take me three times what I had allotted.

    Then the next project took me a week less.

    Just freely give of yourself.

    It all works out.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Ok Shawn,

    I had a chance to take a look. You're absolutely accurate, Gary did say EXACTLY what you said he said.

    Basically, "Use time to justify the price. Stand firm. Don't negotiate."

    (You probably heard it over in your neck of the woods, my jaw hitting the floor.)

    Again, if its work for you, keep doing it.

    Hasn't changed my mind or position, but I appreciate where you're coming from much better. Thank you.

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Blake King
    On the time issue: Don't let clients know how long it took you to write copy IF it took some very small amount of time. It WILL make them resent you on some level if they're forking over a large check and you did the work like it was nothing....

    I think Dan Kennedy went over this in his advanced consulting & coaching bootcamp: Consulting and Coaching Bootcamp - GKIC Resource Center

    Definitely check that out.

    On the price issue: I would work to create your own profitable project. Selling your own ebook, an email funnel selling clickbank products... anything that you can call your own.

    Once you've done this, clients will see you as a partner and NOT some overpaid virtual employee. Not to mention the fact that you can make more money by having your own thing going.
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  • Profile picture of the author netvicar
    Harlan Kilstein also mentions avoiding the time issue. I believe it's Value Based Copywriting that mentions never telling a client how long a project took nor how easy the project was to complete (if in fact it was easy to complete). If you finished too early they think you ripped them off. If you are late they'll see you are unreliable. And if they feel you worked yourself to the wire and just made their deadline as agreed, perhaps they'll think you've earned your keep.

    I always finish projects early. Being a bit OCD I worry that something may come up if I procrastinate to cause me to miss a deadline (which fortunately has not yet happened ever). However instead of telling the client I've finished early I use any extra time to mull over the drafts and make little changes that may flash up later.

    I cannot imagine any good coming from being exceptionally early. Perhaps some clients may appreciate it. But I suspect their perception would lead to later grief.

    "Not too early and never late" is a good goal.
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  • Profile picture of the author masterpaintingnow
    That's pretty good, especially this line ""Most of my clients don't want the cheapest price... they want what works."

    It makes them feel cheap and alienated, but not over the top.
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