The Long Sales Letter Is Dead

23 replies
The Long Sales Letter Is Dead

Yes, another one of these threads. But I felt compelled to make one because I feel the previous incarnations of the "long sales letter is dead" thread all suck and don't really push the buttons that need to be pushed.

The way people responded to the previous threads, anyone would think the thread-starters are naive newbies who have yet to grow their copywriting molars, while the smug thread-responders are long-in-the-tooth, battle-tested copywriting legends.

A Prominent Copywriter Called It

The fact is, Michel Fortin called this half a decade ago in his classic "Death of the Salesletter." Here are the juiciest parts:

There are several things to note, here. First off, salesletters are not dead. They never will be. They are here to stay. However, what I am referring to are not salesletters as a sales process, but specifically long-copy, long scrolling web pages, particularly in their current state.
Are infomercials salesletters? I mean, can you put a long-copy written salesletter on television, and force viewers to read it, to buy your product? Of course, not. You probably could, but you wouldn't put up a long-copy salesletter on TV because, obviously, it would be nonsense for a variety of reasons.

[...]

So if you don't put a salesletter on TV, then why put one on the web?
For example, I'm seeing long-copy salesletters losing their effectiveness, and shorter copy starting to outsell them. As a proponent of long-copy salesletters myself, you can imagine how much of a wakeup call this was for me. And if you're a copywriter or a marketer, it should be your wakeup call, too.
When you're faced with a 5,000, 3,000 or even a 1,000-word salesletter, reading anything that long, particularly if it looks anything like a salesletter, seems incredibly daunting -- even just scanning through it can be exhausting.

Shorter salesletters are more effective. That is, pithy, brief, to-the-point copy is showing better results in split-tests than the converse. But be careful, here. When I say "shorter" copy, I don't mean less copy.

What I mean is, less textual copy.

Salesletters offering even more content but delivered in other ways are actually outpulling long-copy salesletters with endlessly scrolling text.
The Naysayers Probably Haven't Even Tested Their Direct-Mail Wisdom On The Web

As one example, take the oft-repeated claim that the P.S. is one of the first things a prospect reads.

Sure, nobody disputes this in the direct-mail world. But have any of the buffoons parroting this claim actually tested it on the Web?

I doubt it.

Try this experiment: Take any of your long sales letters that have a P.S., and use scroll-tracking software to see what your visitors do. I guarantee you won't find them scrolling to the bottom of the page to read the P.S.

Saying a P.S. is a good thing to have is one thing, but the rationale generally given is a direct-mail rationale that simply doesn't apply to the Web.

Money Talks

Look at the best-selling Clickbank products, and you'll find the vast majority of them now use video sales "copy."

Eben Pagan's flagship dating product now uses video sales "copy."

So Who Are The Naysayers Anyway?

Good question!

In my experience, the naysayers usually fall into one of four categories:
  1. People selling Internet marketing products. This is probably the only niche where long sales letters stand a chance against multimedia sales "copy." Why? Because it's a kind of self-reinforcing circle jerk. The prospects are usually just as conditioned as the authors to believe that long sales letters are the ultimate sales weapon, so when they see a long sales letter, they immediately decide they like and trust the author. And because the prospects "know" that people read long sales letters, guess what they do: They plod through the damn things almost as a stand against cognitive dissonance! It's also why a WSO sales letter can get away with the same old ridiculous scarcity tactics and other hackneyed tactics: Nobody believes them, but the author "surely" knows what he's doing, so the product must be great!
  2. Copywriters who have written for the Web but who get their testimonials and such before the bottom-line results are even in. How many testimonials have you seen that don't even mention ROI figures? The ones that do are probably just made up, anyway. Yes, I'm saying it. I'm going there. I'm mentioning the hush-hush fact that copywriters just make up testimonials. The public knows it, and we know it too, but we like to pretend we're all ethical little "Dear Friend," "order before midnight" marketers, don't we?
  3. Successful direct-mail copywriters who haven't written a damn thing for the Web. Don't laugh. I had this debate with a guy who claimed to be making a fortune with long sales letters. In a more polite version of "put up or shut up," I asked whether I could see some of his work and perhaps learn a thing or two from it. To his credit, he showed me some of his long sales letters and produced convincing earnings reports. The catch? He hadn't written a damn thing for the Web but was making pronouncements on Web best practice!
  4. People who haven't written a damn thing for the Web OR for anywhere else. Yes, it's a sad fact that many of the people trying to make the case for long sales letters on the Web are phonies. Maybe that's too harsh a term. What happens is a lot of people read the classic copywriting books, have all these dreams of making it big off info products or whatever, get involved in all the marketing forums to bounce ideas back and forth to fuel their excitement, and start parroting "time-tested wisdom" before they've written a damn thing. It's so easy to treat a marketing forum -- or any kind of forum, for that matter -- as a textual Second Life, where you get to role-play your character as an online success story.

Final Words

Thanks for reading all this. I know you love your long forum posts as much as you love your long sales letters.
#dead #letter #long #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Someone roll out the cannon.

    Aim.

    Fire.

    And blow this topic up to smithereens.

    Yes, yes, yes, we've heard it all before. The subjects been flogged to death. You ain't saying nothing new. It's a boring argument.

    And your positioning of the argument is as boring as the last person who brought this subject up a few weeks ago, which again was just as boring as the person who also brought up the same point a few weeks before that too. Ad infinitum.

    To time immemorial.


    Mark Andrews
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    • Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

      Someone roll out the cannon.

      Aim.

      Fire.

      And blow this topic up to smithereens.

      Yes, yes, yes, we've heard it all before. The subjects been flogged to death. You ain't saying nothing new. It's a boring argument.

      And your positioning of the argument is as boring as the last person who brought this subject up a few weeks ago, which again was just as boring as the person who also brought up the same point a few weeks before that too. Ad infinitum.

      To time immemorial.


      Mark Andrews
      Dear friend,

      I agree with what you're saying about "long sales letters outsell everything else" being a boring, unoriginal argument that's needlessly parroted ad infinitum without a solid basis.

      But although I agree with you, you're selling a copywriting service, so there's a vested interest there whether you agree with me or disagree.

      Sincerely,
      WhoElseWantsTheTruth

      P.S. If you respond before midnight, I'll chew off my arm.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by WhoElseWantsTheTruth View Post

        Dear friend,

        I agree with what you're saying about "long sales letters outsell everything else" being a boring, unoriginal argument that's needlessly parroted ad infinitum without a solid basis.

        But although I agree with you, you're selling a copywriting service, so there's a vested interest there whether you agree with me or disagree.

        Sincerely,
        WhoElseWantsTheTruth

        P.S. If you respond before midnight, I'll chew off my arm.
        I'm not your friend. The name is Mark.

        Unless it's escaped your notice, you're on an Internet marketing forum.

        Go to the WSO section of the forum and what do you see right in front of your eyes?

        Well blow me down, one long form sales letter after another.

        Dead? Well, you could'a fooled me.

        Pick up any magazine with full page advertorials inside it. What do you see?

        Well blow me down, one long form sales letter after another.

        Dead? Yeah right on. Whatever.

        Next...


        Mark Andrews
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        • Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post


          Go to the WSO section of the forum and what do you see right in front of your eyes?

          Well blow me down, one long form sales letter after another.

          Dead? Well, you could'a fooled me.

          Pick up any magazine with full page advertorials inside it. What do you see?

          Well blow me down, one long form sales letter after another.

          Dead? Yeah right on. Whatever.
          Dear Mark,

          It's now patently obvious that you didn't even read my post. If you had, you would've seen that it's talking about the Web, and you would've seen the concession about Internet marketing products (hell, I even mentioned WSO sales letters especially).

          I think what we've witnessed is your knee-jerk reaction to an idea that you may feel threatens your business model, when it ought not.

          Let the critical reader (without a product/service to hawk) take note. Not that this will stop your post being "thanked" into oblivion in the same way the post with the dud information about Fortin's so-called "recent" blog post was.
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
    I had a time where I stopped viewing Clickbank products and top selling products but I've noticed the death of the sales letter.

    The mile long sales letter with highlighted text and all that mumble jumble.

    For some reason people are really into the auto-play video websites that usually just includes a video and an opt-in e-mail address form. I'm sure they're still profitable, but the top selling products on Clickbank aren't using them anymore.
    Signature

    Skype: Coreygeer319

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    • Originally Posted by GhostWriting View Post

      I had a time where I stopped viewing Clickbank products and top selling products but I've noticed the death of the sales letter.

      The mile long sales letter with highlighted text and all that mumble jumble.

      For some reason people are really into the auto-play video websites that usually just includes a video and an opt-in e-mail address form. I'm sure they're still profitable, but the top selling products on Clickbank aren't using them anymore.
      Indeed, money talks!
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        The straight long sales letter is fading, but only because most are
        adding other dynamics. This one is very cool for have only
        'in video' copy.

        The Mobile Money Bandit!
        Signature




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        • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
          p.s. why would someone's first post on Warrior be this and then
          post a link to it in their sig? hmm....
          Signature




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          • Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

            p.s. why would someone's first post on Warrior be this and then
            post a link to it in their sig? hmm....
            Controversy sells. As you can see in my avatar, I have a delicious lemon vehicle I need to unload ASAP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
    I have never actually read a long sales letter online from top to bottom. Once I get to the site, I look at what's above the fold to get an idea of what the product is, then I scroll down quite fast until I see a price. Oh wait... that's only an example price of what the product could cost me if I purchased elsewhere. So I scroll some more, and keep scrolling until I find the actual price of the product. If I don't find it, if I have to fill in an opt-in form to see the price, I leave.

    I purchase products - online and off - by first looking at what it is (I pretty much already know what its benefits are supposed to be), and then the price. If it's outside my current budget, I don't buy, and I don't care about all the yada yada yada.

    The long sales letter was dead to me from the moment I first saw them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Len Bailey
    Every so often, someone comes along proclaiming (or re-proclaiming) a particular medium is dead. Print ads... direct mail... long-copy web pages... microsites... radio and television ads... you name it.

    However, I have yet to see a case where things played out as predicted.

    The fact is, different prospects respond to different media. In some markets, long copy is undoubtedly the worst way to market. In others, an infomercial or 6x9 would be just a waste of time and money. Which is why Rule #1 of direct marketing is: "Test Everything."

    If your tests show your prospects respond better to short copy, good for you. You can cut costs while boosting revenue. Just don't be so arrogant as to assume your tests apply to all markets, products, and prospects.

    My clients, too, conduct testing. And if they don't, I urge them to consider it. This business isn't about egos -- it's about getting the prospect to take the desired action.

    When one of my clients asks for short copy, it's usually pointing to a long-copy landing page. And I'm happy to write it.

    But most of the time, I'm hired to write the long copy required for the media converting best for my client. Which is currently video, long-copy sales pages, 6x9 direct mail packages, magalogs, and tabloids.

    Just my two cents.

    Best wishes for big winners!

    Len

    PS: Perhaps a client of mine put it best a few years ago. At the time, most financial publishers were spending their marketing dollars online... and some had shut down their print marketing entirely. After all, marketing on the web was cheaper--and much easier to track.

    However, not this client. Unlike their competitors, they didn't slow their print advertising at all. They simply expanded their efforts to include email, the web, and social media.

    Their philosophy was simple: "Why should we kill one cash cow just because another wandered into our field?"
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    Len Bailey
    Copywriter/Consultant
    Feel free to connect on LinkedIn or Twitter

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    • Profile picture of the author DougHughes
      Originally Posted by Len Bailey View Post

      This business isn't about egos -- it's about getting the prospect to take the desired action.
      Thanks for that Len. I agree.

      In a thread a few weeks back I read a post of someone claiming selling from a guarantee is weak.

      Really? Weak? I thought the goal was to get response. Too proud to sell from a strong guarantee? Pride comes before a fall.

      As far as "The long Sales Letter is Dead," I think it comes down to putting the right media, in front of the right prospects, with the right message.

      I do agree that some copywriters used to writing magalogs and a lot of print stuff can get it wrong on the web. Format is important at least that's what experience and testing have shown me.

      In the last 6 months or so we have hired top copywriters in our niche to write web sales letters. In short, they didn't do very well.

      The copy was very good...highly compelling...but simply too long and not for web format. The same copy was re-purposed for print and did fine.

      The copy also did better once I plucked bits and pieces from it, changed things around, and tested shorter versions online.

      Conversely, we recently tested some shorter web copy on a couple of products trying to get past Google and their aversion to long copy. Shorter copy was acceptable but not great and was a full point lower than the same copy put in long form on a single page in both instances.

      The fundamentals and principles are unchanging so in any direct response ad I believe you need the right media to market message/match. After that...
      • Attention
      • Interest
      • Desire
      • Action
      Then time tested sales/DR triggering which is done through a deep understanding of the prospect and framing the pitch to get the action.



      Thanks for the thread.
      Signature

      I write copy. Learn More.>>

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  • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
    It might be dead for you, but it isn't for me.

    That's all that matters.

    Have fun with short copy...

    Winston Tian
    Signature

    Cheers,
    Winston
    The Beginner's Doctor

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    • Originally Posted by WinstonTian View Post

      It might be dead for you, but it isn't for me.

      That's all that matters.

      Have fun with short copy...

      Winston Tian
      This almost feels like an attack on my man parts.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    First of all...thanks for your words of wisdom...I don't think so (to put it mildly).

    In any event, Fortin is singing quite a different tune in this recent blog post:

    Long Copy Or Short Copy? | Michel Fortin on Copywriting, Marketing, Business, and Life
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    • Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      First of all...thanks for your words of wisdom...I don't think so (to put it mildly).

      In any event, Fortin is singing quite a different tune in this recent blog post:

      Long Copy Or Short Copy? | Michel Fortin on Copywriting, Marketing, Business, and Life

      Recent blog post? There's no date on the thing.

      But if we put his blog-post link into the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (I can't paste the link here because of my post count)...

      ... we can see that it was written way before "Death of the Salesletter": Friday, October 1st, 2004. This was presumably before he started seeing the decline in conversions with long sales letters across multiple niches.

      There are also enough in-post clues to reveal the age of the post.

      Even if it were recent, which it's not, it wouldn't really contradict "Death of the Salesletter." Fortin still believes in long sales copy (incorporating multisensory media a la video sales "copy"), but not in long sales letter copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    John Carlton said it best;

    Your copy should be like a woman's dress: long enough to cover all the important parts, but short enough to hold your attention.
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    • Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      John Carlton said it best;

      Your copy should be like a woman's dress: long enough to cover all the important parts, but short enough to hold your attention.
      But wouldn't a male audience prefer watching a porn video than reading an erotic novel on one long-scrolling website?
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  • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
    Originally Posted by WhoElseWantsTheTruth View Post

    [*]People selling Internet marketing products. This is probably the only niche where long sales letters stand a chance against multimedia sales "copy."
    Not only does that discount the number of niches that exist in this world, it totally ignores the various ways of reaching the target audience online.

    You have to take into account HOW they find your product (search, affiliate, email, etc.) You have to take into account WHEN they find your product (weekday or weekend, work hours or evening.) You have to take into account WHERE they are when they find your product (work, home, mobile.)

    Do you really think vsl/multimedia consistently beats straight text in every possible situation? Try it in a b2b niche. Try it in a b2c niche reached via email at their places of business m-f.

    Proclaiming the death of the long form sales letter based on what's happening at ClickBank is like standing in the desert and proclaiming the end of water. It doesn't make you a prophet. It makes you a crazy dude in the desert.

    If the long-form sales letter ever does die, here is how you will know: People will stop proclaiming its death or asking if they still work.
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    • Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

      Do you really think vsl/multimedia consistently beats straight text in every possible situation? Try it in a b2b niche.
      Do you have any recent long-sales-letter b2b examples in mind for the Web, preferably something with a verifiable conversion rate?

      Try it in a b2c niche reached via email at their places of business m-f.
      I don't think I'm really ignoring the medium. It's clear I'm talking about the Web. I'm not talking about email any more than I'm talking about direct-mail when I say the long sales letter is dead.

      But following this tangent, the email marketing I've seen (including that in my own inbox) consists of a paragraph or two followed by a call to action directing me to a website where there's a video sales presentation.

      I don't think long sales letters via email are practical in the age of vigilant spam filters.

      Proclaiming the death of the long form sales letter based on what's happening at ClickBank is like standing in the desert and proclaiming the end of water. It doesn't make you a prophet. It makes you a crazy dude in the desert.
      But it's based on real-world money across multiple niches and stands as an objective confirmation, which is more than can be said for the opposing viewpoint.

      Sure, it doesn't take into account how the affiliates are pre-selling or whatever, but I think it's pretty telling that the vast majority of successful Clickbank marketers have abandoned the long sales letter in droves.

      Most hilarious of all, the products with the crappiest performance tend to have long sales letters. I don't think the best affiliates even want to touch them.

      The writing is on the wall.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
        Originally Posted by WhoElseWantsTheTruth View Post

        But it's based on real-world money across multiple niches and stands as an objective confirmation, which is more than can be said for the opposing viewpoint.

        Sure, it doesn't take into account how the affiliates are pre-selling or whatever, but I think it's pretty telling that the vast majority of successful Clickbank marketers have abandoned the long sales letter in droves.

        Most hilarious of all, the products with the crappiest performance tend to have long sales letters. I don't think the best affiliates even want to touch them.

        The writing is on the wall.
        You see it as real-world money across multiple niches. I see it as info-products sold via Clickbank. The desert, baby.

        The real world is wide and large and made up mostly of things other than downloads.

        BTW - spam filters are not a problem when it comes to using long copy via email. I realize I'm a contrarian in this area, but it works very well for me in my niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    All I know is I wrote a REALLY long sales letter that builds a lot of perceived value for an upsell and it works like CRAZY.

    Length doesn't matter I think.

    But boringness matters.

    And saying a bunch of crap that doesn't matter to the prospect matters.
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  • BTW - spam filters are not a problem when it comes to using long copy via email. I realize I'm a contrarian in this area, but it works very well for me in my niche.
    Fair enough.
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