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Wrote my copy and would appreciate some feedback

by magic456
9 replies
Hi there,

I am not a writer and english is not my first language either but I still decided to write a copy for one of my product.

I feel I understand my market better than most people and I should give it a shot and see what happens.

My product is in dating niche and can be very offending to some people, so please be warned before you click the link.

However if you can, I would love to get few pointers. I am not sensitive so you can critique freely.

The copy is about selling a program where I teach men to meet women outside of bars and clubs.

My clients are usually male between 24-45 with an average income of $5k a month.

Obviously they are struggling to get women.

Currently all my sale for this product comes from clients who have bought my intro product or have already heard about me. I am hoping to convert new visitors to this page and I might even sell it on clickbank for additional exposure.

Hope this gives you some idea about my intention behind this copy.

And here is the link to my copy: Social Circle Dating | Social Circle Game | Social Circle Mastery

Thanks very much in advance!

-Magic
#copy #feedback #wrote
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    I'm pretty sure every copywriter has come across a client or two in the whole "Pickup Artist" niche by now... It's a pretty big market, everybody around here is desensitized to it :p

    Anyway, on to the sales letter.

    1. The headline and first sub-heading could use some work.

    Couple reasons for this, but the main thing is, you could convey all that same information in much shorter space. Succinctness is key, and your first sub-heading just comes across as a giant wall of text.

    Also, you're throwing out these copywriting cliches without any real purpose. The "SHOCKING THING REVEALED" angle is meant to be used when you're actually revealling something shocking. What's shocking about men not knowing how to meet high quality women? I guess you could MAKE it shocking with some insinuation that it's not what they're expecting, but you don't do that, so it just comes across as a cliche headline that people have seen a billion times before.

    See Kennedy's "The Ultimate Sales Letter" (Chp. 3) for better headline structures.

    2. The DVD set graphic right after the headline is doing nothing for you.

    Why did you include it right there at the top? You're basically saying "hey guys I'm trying to sell you a massive info product for hundreds of dollars." Ditch it!

    3. I'm not sure how I feel about the page layout.

    I say "I'm not sure about" it because this is my one comment I'm sort of on the fence on. Basically I think that by including so much text inside those thin boxes, you're making the sales letter look a lot longer than it actually is. I wouldn't say this is much longer than 4000 words, but when you scroll down the page, it seems longer than that, because so much text is stuffed inside these little text boxes you have all over the page. Not sure if that's really that bad, but I imagine it would cause some people to click away from the page.

    4. The intro story is a little weak.

    It just kinda seems like you saw every other dating coach including sales letter stories about failing with women before improving, then made a vague attempt to copy the approach yourself. It's really short and it doesn't really say anything, we're supposed to believe that "you were the guy they made fun of in movies" without you telling us any convincing stories that make you seem like that. Flesh it out a bit more.

    5. In a lot of places, the writing is just generally flat and unconvincing.

    OK so, copywriting is not supposed to be Pulitzer Prize winning stuff, but there does need to be a level of emotion and enthusiasm in it for it to work. In a lot of places, your writing comes across as very uninspired, and boredom is a very contagious emotion. I know a guy who is very involved in the dating advice market, and he tells me the market is shrinking because a lot of people are becoming disenfranchised with the "same old, same old" products that promise the same thing again and again without delivering. In a market like that, you don't want to bore your audience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Hi Magic,

    Andy made some excellent suggestions.

    And yes, we are all desensitized to the PUA stuff. Why does it have to be so sleazy?

    I know...I know... because that's what the audience wants (no wonder they can't score...).

    As copywriters we never have to worry about dating the ladies – we just send them a nice sales letter...with a “fast reply” form and a bonus if they respond quickly.

    Anyway.

    The trouble with your copy is - it’s saying what every other PUA's copy is saying.

    There is nothing to differentiate your stuff from all the other stuff.

    Actually there is.

    But it's all hidden so deep in the copy – no ones likely to see or realize it.


    I would do 2 things.

    If you are getting a good level of sales – get a friend to read the copy – and make it flow better.

    Get them to tidy up the English.

    It does jar and jump around. A lot of the phrasing needs to be fixed.


    If the sales are poor – you’re going to have to do what the other PUA “gurus” do -

    Hire a pro – copywriter to rewrite everything for you. They’ll be able to find the USP’s and “position” your stuff leagues above the rest.

    You’ll still need to get mega tons of traffic to the site.

    But with the right copy aimed at your audience no doubt it’ll bring you big numbers of sales.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author magic456
      Steve and Mark,

      Thank you for great feedback!

      I am so glad I posted here, I am already beginning to get a sense of what I need to do. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your guys' feedback!

      Just to give an idea about my thought behind this page/business model:

      Most of the visitors who come to our site we take them to a squeeze page and redirect to our intro product: Review Your Special Offer

      This product converts a little over 1%. And I am happy with it

      The product I wrote the copy for is an advanced product and one of my most elite product. I get tons of success stories, emails and thank you notes for this one. This product has just been selling on word of mouth and I only decided to write this page to see if it will help increasing the conversion.

      I have looked into hiring copywriters but I did not get a good feel for any of them. Most them only offered 2-3 re write-ups but no one was willing to work until XYZ conversion was achieved. I have been burnt by few copywriters and internet marketers in the past so I decided to give it a try on my own.

      Mark you are absolutely correct! I have no sense of branding. And yes I know I need to learn this. It's just that 80% of my effort goes into teaching and writing newsletters. I barely have anytime to learn IM. Tried partnerships in the past but again never found the real match...Someday I will get to that level.

      I just wanted to address something you said and this is just my experience. Age and looks really do not matter. And what I mean by this is that no matter how you look right now it can be fixed to the point where you start getting results. I feel lot of men believe they have to be in top shape to get women and in my opinion strong presence with "Normal-Fashion" goes a long way.

      I have clients who are 50 years of age and dating women in their 30's. One of my coach who is 44 is dating a beautiful 21 year old woman who also has a healthy mindset.

      In most of my workshops I am the least attractive man and I always get the right attention. But then this is my business so obviously I will say things like this.

      But I honestly believe that connection goes a long way in relationships.

      I also one hundred percent agree with you talking about giving real stuff to men.

      I firmly believe that pickup hurts more in the long run. It is good for beginners because all of a sudden they have stuff to go and use on women but it prevents them from building comfort.

      I am not a PUA and I do not teach it however because it is very popular right now I have to build my site around it.

      Everyone tells me my site gives incorrect impression of what I do but it is working so I am not messing with it

      Not to tooth my own horn but when I started there are some big names, who are friends with me, who betted that I cannot last more than 6 months. It's been four years and I am growing strong. All of this only for two reasons I bust my ass to ensure my clients succeed and I focus on building healthy men. 70% of my training is life coaching, 10% is building lifestyle and only 20% is techniques. If you read some of the client reviews you will see that: Dating Coach | Dating Coach For Men | Pickup Artist Reviews

      I hope this is not coming across as me being defensive, argumentative or trying to build my image. I am getting some amazing feedback from you guys and I think the better I explain myself the better guidance I can receive.

      Thanks again for amazing tips! You guys rock! I now have to think how to implement these suggestions

      -Magic
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      How to attract women|Dating Women|Pick Up Artist|Pick Up Artist Guide
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by magic456 View Post

        I just wanted to address something you said and this is just my experience. Age and looks really do not matter. And what I mean by this is that no matter how you look right now it can be fixed to the point where you start getting results. I feel lot of men believe they have to be in top shape to get women and in my opinion strong presence with "Normal-Fashion" goes a long way.

        I have clients who are 50 years of age and dating women in their 30's. One of my coach who is 44 is dating a beautiful 21 year old woman who also has a healthy mindset.
        Again...

        I only read the very top part of your letter.

        And I'll tell you what:

        Everything you just said, in the context you communicated it, I absolutely agree with.

        You can CONNECT with women, no matter what you look like or how much money you're pulling in.

        But your sales letter isn't selling the art of connection - it comes across as just another generic pick up artist attempt.

        Originally Posted by magic456 View Post

        I firmly believe that pickup hurts more in the long run. It is good for beginners because all of a sudden they have stuff to go and use on women but it prevents them from building comfort.

        I am not a PUA and I do not teach it however because it is very popular right now I have to build my site around it.

        Everyone tells me my site gives incorrect impression of what I do but it is working so I am not messing with it
        I'm going to be totally blunt with you, because you're obviously a very astute, sincere person.

        Giving the impression that you're selling a pick up artist product - when in reality, you're offering a way for men to create genuine connections with women is the wrong way to go.

        If your sales copy and brand mirrored the tone in your response to my post, you could easily trump a measly 1% conversion rate - with the right traffic.

        Besides...

        Going off of the information you provided in the O.P., you don't have enough targeted, cold traffic coming onto the site to even know what your REAL conversions might be.

        In any event...

        Reflect the genuine benefits in the product and you WILL make more sales.

        Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    I only read a little bit.

    Your positioning is all over the place.

    You need to hone in upon exactly who you're talking WITH.

    On the one hand...

    You say date multiple women (and your bonuses contain "dating strippers" and having threesomes,) then just a moment later, you're talking about how this product isn't for taking advantage of women.

    To say you're not clear on your target prospect is an understatement.

    You have also have ZERO sense of brand. (Yes, I will bring up BRAND until I'm bluer in the face than a Smurf!)

    Your domain is is attractionmethods.com. Boring.

    In your page title, you have Social Circle Dating.

    Okay, that's fine.

    But when I look at your product pictures (right at the top,) I get no indication of what the hell I'm looking at.

    You need to redo your graphics RIGHT NOW!

    You need to take away the product picture at the top (redone or not,) because you've done nothing to compel any sales.

    Having the image there will turn people off.

    You need to create a distinct brand, message, positioning and hone in upon exactly who the man is you're speaking to and write down the circumstances he's dealing with RIGHT NOW!

    A quick note...

    I was actually browsing through this market on Clickbank the other night and while there's a lot of competition, virtually NOBODY is on target.

    I'm thinking about creating my own product in the dating niche.

    It's that wide open.

    That being said...

    My advice is start with really understanding the emotions that men who can't pick up women deal with.

    I got ZERO sense of emotion in the little bit I read.

    Why do they want to meet women?

    Why do they want to get laid?

    Why aren't they getting lucky?

    What are their frustrations?

    Talk about their jealousy (towards the men who DO bag the babes!)

    Dredge up some sense of pain and their desire to feel like they can get lucky.

    You're NOT accomplishing that straight away.

    Also...

    It DOES matter if you're fat, shy, old, etc.

    I always shake my head when I see comments like, "It doesn't matter if you're 60 years old!"

    It does.

    Be honest.

    Comments like that will run into your prospect's limiting beliefs faster than Clinton can cover up getting a B.J.

    And I hope your product addresses mindset.

    I've been approached by two people looking to launch in this niche...

    ...and neither of their products addressed this absolutely essential issue.

    It's more important than money, the way men dress, the places they go to pick up women... and beyond.

    Mark Pescetti
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
      Quote from Marks Post -

      "A quick note...

      I was actually browsing through this market on Clickbank the other night and while there's a lot of competition, virtually NOBODY is on target.

      I'm thinking about creating my own product in the dating niche.

      It's that wide open"


      Mark, a word of caution, you have discussed this with your wife haven't you?


      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

        Taken from Marks Post
        "A quick note...

        I was actually browsing through this market on Clickbank the other night and while there's a lot of competition, virtually NOBODY is on target.

        I'm thinking about creating my own product in the dating niche.

        It's that wide open"


        Mark, a word of caution, you have discussed this with your wife haven't you?


        Steve
        Yup, I brought it up the other night.

        She met me when I was an absolute slut. (In fact, I once told her that getting married was a way to stop womanizing! A word to the wise, never tell your wife that ;-)

        So she knows I'm coming from first hand experience.

        I asked her to do the graphics for the website, but she wants NOTHING to do with it.

        I create pen names for niches like this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    ...I'm sure magic is aware of this - but one of the biggest names in the "dating" niche - concentrates on the "non sleazy" - "it's good to build relationships" - has made well over $24,000,000.


    ...blimey, I thought I just heard Marks wife agree to do the graphics on his site...
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