A Note To Everyone That Critiques Copy

by 0oo0
15 replies
So when people ask for a critique how about giving something constructive instead of just it sucks hire a pro.

Why?

Because you weren't always a pro and had to learn too at some point.

A perfect example of this is in John Caples - Making Ads Pay

In chapter 6 about inspiring copywriters he says:

Ev Grady never criticized a single line of copy I ever wrote for him. Instead be checked with a pencil the headlines and paragraphs he liked. And praised them highly! "That's swell, John" he would say. "Write some more like that!"

I would then hurry to my desk, eager to write copy that would win additional praise...


How about people start helping by showing what they are doing write instead of talking AND criticizing In such a bitter and condescending manner.

I think it would make this whole section a lot more pleasant.

That's my 2 cents.
#copy #critiques #note
  • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
    No, it wouldn't make this section a lot more pleasant.

    It would make this a section of a thousand daily critique requests.

    It would lower the value of the critiques to people who really want to learn.

    It would offer false hope to the hopeless.
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    • Profile picture of the author 0oo0
      Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

      It would offer false hope to the hopeless.
      No such thing, anyone could write copy.

      Stephen King was once quoted in Time magazine that:

      "writing is similar to working out. When you work out and lift weights, within a period of time, you’ll find yourself becoming much stronger and more muscular. The same can be applied to copywriting. If you continue to develop your skills and write habitually every day, you’ll find yourself becoming a better writer over the course of time. The key behind copywriting tips is that you must apply them."

      It sucks isn't a "tip".
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      • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
        Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post

        No such thing, anyone could write copy.

        Stephen King was once quoted in Time magazine that:

        "writing is similar to working out. When you work out and lift weights, within a period of time, you'll find yourself becoming much stronger and more muscular. The same can be applied to copywriting. If you continue to develop your skills and write habitually every day, you'll find yourself becoming a better writer over the course of time. The key behind copywriting tips is that you must apply them."
        Yeah. That workout simile doesn't make sense when you're dealing with linguistic quadriplegics.

        If someone requesting a critique really needs a remedial English class, and that's a shocking number of them, helping them is beyond the scope of this forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post

        No such thing, anyone could write copy.
        And the masses do write copy.

        And no coincidence most sell little to none.

        Are you sure you are talking about copy that sells or copy with another purpose?

        Best,
        Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

      No, it wouldn't make this section a lot more pleasant.

      It would make this a section of a thousand daily critique requests.

      It would lower the value of the critiques to people who really want to learn.

      It would offer false hope to the hopeless.
      This. Not only this, but it's hard enough getting people to read the damn stickies and self edit as it is. The ones who try legitimately get great critiques from some damn fine copywriting minds. The ones who half-ass it deserve what they get.

      Not to mention the ones who are being super nice and are holding hands with the people who half-ass their copy - they tend to ALSO write half-ass copy or are in another field altogether and are in no position to be giving advice.

      Sometimes you need to hear it sucks. That's a truth in life - if you don't know where to improve, you never will. The smart ones who hear "it sucks, hire a pro" will study if they're determined to write it themselves, or they'll hire a pro. I've seen some people do it. It's called investing in your business.
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      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    If someone puts in real effort, no matter how bad it is, we'll be helpful.

    Thing is, most of the "copy" I see on this forum is just pathetic.

    I spend 40+ hours on each one of my letters. Most copy I see here has been thrown together in a few hours.

    Before I wrote my first letter, I read a ton of courses on writing copy. I studied successful letters. And I wrote a hell of a lot for practice.

    Most of the people I see don't do any of that. Most of us can pick who will/won't be a good writer based on initial work - you can see who's done the hard yards and who hasn't.

    You think we're harsh? Go hang out with Carlton or Parris Lampropoulos. That's a humbling experience, to say the least...

    -Daniel
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    If we post "It sucks...hire a pro" be assured it REALLY sucks. As in...there is no hope for what you've written.

    But apart from that...a lot of us are working pro copywriters. Meaning we're on half a dozen different gigs at once. We drop in here to see what's happening. Usually we just don't have the time to give you a proper critique. In fact even if you paid me a couple of hundred for a critique I'd still be hard-pressed to find the time to do it.

    But the kicker...(As Daniel has already pointed out) if you get offended by the comments, you probably shouldn't be in this game.

    "Bitter and condescending manner" - usually it's pretty funny.

    And you're quoting Caples? His heyday was pre-WWII. The Twenties and Thirties. Social mores and manners were vastly different back then.

    But just to keep you happy...the next lot of suckass copy you submit we'll all say -

    "That's swell, John...write some more like that!"
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  • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
    Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post


    I think it would make this whole section a lot more pleasant.
    Unlike many warriors who sell "shiny new objects" or "secrets", we sell results.

    The copy works, or it doesn't.

    Our copy either increased sales, or it decreased them.

    Which translates into us copywriters getting really straight to the point. Because we only have so much time in the day.

    If you want to hear about how great the world is, go the WSO section. Go get some coaching. For $1997 there are Warriors who will tell you how easy it is to make a million dollars a year.

    If you want raw truth, come here.
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    The Most Bad-Ass Tax Reduction Strategist for Internet Marketers who HATE paying taxes. See my happy clients

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post


    That's my 2 cents.
    Are you taking the piss?

    At least you've got a bunch of professional copywriters who are taking time out of their own busy schedules to provide detailed free critiques in this section of the forum.

    Copywriting by it's very nature is not an easy subject to master unlike many other services offered here on the Warrior Forum. It takes sometimes years of practice to get very good at this. Not just the skill one has with words but understanding human psychology and behavior as well and a myriad other factors too.

    And in each critique offered, sometimes the knowledge imparted is invaluable. Knowledge, practical tips which either save someone from pursuing a path which they should never have taken in the first place or indeed...

    ...advice offered which potentially can put many thousands of dollars directly into someone elses bank account. And all the advice imparted shared out completely free of charge!

    Yet you sit there and criticize these people and their kindness demonstrated?!

    What friggin' planet are you on boy?

    Tell you what...

    The second you start giving other people completely free of charge potentially tens of thousands of dollars worth of free advice - then you can come back in here and start criticizing the rest of us.

    Until such time, kindly get lost with your utterly stupid attitude.

    Smoking hot,


    Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post

    How about people start helping by showing what they are doing write instead of talking AND criticizing In such a bitter and condescending manner.

    I think it would make this whole section a lot more pleasant.

    That's my 2 cents.
    Well I guess in this world,
    we need our Paula Abduls
    and our Simon Cowell
    We need our Rick Duris
    and our Mark Andrews

    We really are not all the same.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Well I guess in this world,
      we need our Paula Abduls
      and our Simon Cowell
      We need our Rick Duris
      and our Mark Andrews

      We really are not all the same.

      -Ray Edwards
      You forgot Gordon Ramsay.

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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Well I guess in this world,
      we need our Paula Abduls
      and our Simon Cowell
      We need our Rick Duris
      and our Mark Andrews

      We really are not all the same.

      -Ray Edwards
      I'm prettier than Paula.

      Occasionally, I'm chastised for hurting someone.

      I'm a copywriter, a communicator by profession. I take 100% responsibility for my communication AND the listening of the intended party.

      I want my words to 'land'.

      When they don't, I immediately and sincerely apologize. Insult or ridicule is never my intent.

      - Rick Duris
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author SoCalMarketing
        The irony... I read through this forum a lot and often wonder, how is it that these pros spend so much time giving detailed advice on such a valuable topic as copywriting, often to people who really seem to be just looking for the easier softer way?

        I am personally grateful to those who regulary post such great advice on this forum. I have learned a lot, though not by directly asking anything yet.

        Thank you sincerely to all those who contribute and give their valuable time and advice so freely.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Originally Posted by 0oo0 View Post

    ....I think it would make this whole section a lot more pleasant.

    That's my 2 cents.
    Why would that be the goal of this section?
    _____
    Bruce
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