Non Copywriter Needs a bit of feedback

21 replies
I have rewritten si=ome copy for a website from the perspective of optimisation. However a copywriter I ain't... yet!

Having written this a few months ago, and reviewing it now it looks and seems a bit over done.

Any constructive comment would be welcome.

The website I worked on was Solway Timber Enginering|timber frame, roof trusses & joinery products

Not sure if I can actually use the link directly, so if it gets chopped:
It's all the Ws solwaytimberengineering which is a dot co dot uk site.

Bit nervous here. As an ex teacher I'm more used to picking up on 11 year old's spelling mistakes.

Cheers,
Ray
#bit #copywriter #feedback #learn
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Originally Posted by RayCassidy View Post

    I have rewritten si=ome copy for a website from the perspective of optimisation. However a copywriter I ain't... yet!

    Having written this a few months ago, and reviewing it now it looks and seems a bit over done.

    Any constructive comment would be welcome.

    The website I worked on was Solway Timber Enginering|timber frame, roof trusses & joinery products

    Not sure if I can actually use the link directly, so if it gets chopped:
    It's all the Ws solwaytimberengineering which is a dot co dot uk site.

    Bit nervous here. As an ex teacher I'm more used to picking up on 11 year old's spelling mistakes.

    Cheers,
    Ray
    Its old school dude. Read "boring". If its for "self build enthusiasts" it's crying out for a story - or plenty of stories. "Engage" your visitor.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7305149].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by RayCassidy View Post

    I have rewritten si=ome copy for a website from the perspective of optimisation. However a copywriter I ain't... yet!

    Having written this a few months ago, and reviewing it now it looks and seems a bit over done.

    Any constructive comment would be welcome.

    The website I worked on was Solway Timber Enginering|timber frame, roof trusses & joinery products

    Not sure if I can actually use the link directly, so if it gets chopped:
    It's all the Ws solwaytimberengineering which is a dot co dot uk site.

    Bit nervous here. As an ex teacher I'm more used to picking up on 11 year old's spelling mistakes.

    Cheers,
    Ray
    Ray,

    What you've written is the same as a brochure.

    Is that what you intended, or do you want it to be in the style of direct response copy?

    Alex
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7305326].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author RayCassidy
      It was a brochure - the business owner specifically didn't want it to be too salesy. However having reread it, it is awfully dull as matey says. The priority was to get it started in the search process after it had sat doing nothing for 8 months.
      I've a bit of an article writing brain but copywriting without going over the top has elided me. ;-)

      Thanks for getting back to me.
      Ray
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7306754].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by RayCassidy View Post

        It was a brochure - the business owner specifically didn't want it to be too salesy.
        Ray
        Ask him if he wants to make sales.

        If not, then you can leave it 'non-salesy'.

        Unfortunately for him, if he wants to make sales, he'll have to make it 'salesy'.

        He can't have it both ways.

        Oh, and before you ask, there's a difference between hype and sales.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7306886].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by RayCassidy View Post

        the business owner specifically didn't want it to be too salesy.
        Copy can be strong enough to make sales without using hype. Here are three suggestions...

        1. With each feature, also include the benefit
        2. Include strong verbs (but not adjectives)
        3. Use bullets

        Those three changes alone could produce more sales.

        4. Also consider using the advertorial style of sales copy. When done correctly, it doesn't come across as "salesy" but works great.

        Alex
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7307369].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RayCassidy View Post

        It was a brochure - the business owner specifically didn't want it to be too salesy. However having reread it, it is awfully dull as matey says. The priority was to get it started in the search process after it had sat doing nothing for 8 months.
        I've a bit of an article writing brain but copywriting without going over the top has elided me. ;-)

        Thanks for getting back to me.
        Ray
        Doesn't have to be "salesy". In fact would work a lot better if it weren't. Like I said, it's crying out for a story or stories. I'm renovating a house at the moment. I could tell you a dozen stories off the top of my head and have you in the palm of my hand. From the mummified cat we found in the attic when we took the roof off to the peculiar way this house is all out of level/out of plumb - the modern day spirit level was invented well after this house was built.

        Look at this video. Mobile homes. Pretty boring subject you'd think. But look what they do with it.

        à bientôt,
        Matey
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7308280].message }}
        • Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          Doesn't have to be "salesy". In fact would work a lot better if it weren't. Like I said, it's crying out for a story or stories. I'm renovating a house at the moment. I could tell you a dozen stories off the top of my head and have you in the palm of my hand. From the mummified cat we found in the attic when we took the roof off to the peculiar way this house is all out of level/out of plumb - the modern day spirit level was invented well after this house was built.

          Look at this video. Mobile homes. Pretty boring subject you'd think. But look what they do with it.

          à bientôt,
          Matey

          "So come on down and buy a mobile home...or dont. Either way,I don't care."

          Awesome.
          Signature
          50% converting squeeze pages, 12% converting WSO's, and more...
          BenPalmerWilson Copywriting
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7308404].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
            Banned
            Disassociate yourself from this homepage wording for a moment Ray. Tell yourself this isn't your website you're working on. It belongs to another website design team.

            So on looking around the web for ideas how to position this company in the marketplace, you came across this paragraph which had been put together by one of your competitors...

            "The continuity, committed to by STE's guardianship, of the timber product manufacturing tradition in Dumfries on the Solway coast, ensures that past customers are dealing with a known quantity and can feel safe in the knowledge that STE maintain the highest standards of design, manufacture, delivery and support that they have come to expect."

            Now, what would you honestly think to yourself in your own mind if you read this, saw it for what it really is? Does this kind of wording make you want to give this company your business or just yawn out of sheer boredom?

            "The continuity..." What? Come again mate!

            "STE's guardianship..." What the blazing dickens?

            "...dealing with a known quantity..." So what, what's in it for me? That's all I'm interested in. How this business is going to solve my current problem.

            Would you honestly say the wording you've chosen to use in it's current form, this kind of wording is enticing?

            Is it truthfully, really inviting the website visitor building up within them a strong desire to take the next logical step to find out more about this company?

            No, it's not. There's nothing here for the website visitor to latch on to. There's no hook. The bait is as good as useless. Its not going to lure these fish, these ideal customers in. It's not going to hook their interest or maintain their attention span long enough for them to care either way about giving this company their business.

            So the question naturally arises, who taught you to write like this? Who taught you, what environment were you in which said it was okay to communicate a company benefits in such a drab, dry, barren manner?

            Who are you trying to impress here? You're not writing this for people who only have an interest in technical jargon. You're supposed to be writing this for individuals who, would you believe it, have emotional thoughts and feelings. By gum, this is their home you're talking about here, not a rabbit hutch for goodness sake!

            A home where all the joys of family life are to take shape. The centre piece of their entire life, where they share laughter, good times, sad times, eat together, communicate with one another, make love and all kinds of other emotionally intense experiences.

            It's not about detaching emotion from people's individual lives. It's about putting ownership of their home, the very essence of their entire being into their hands allowing them to touch, taste, and feel the environment within which they'll be spending much of their time.

            I'm not suggesting wishy washy gooey emotional language but there is a balance between using warm words to convey positive associations and attachment to a company products and services...

            ...as opposed to simply using cold, clinical language devoid of any real meaning which is going to alienate the very people this company is trying to reach.

            Self build enthusiasts have very divergent interests usually centred around the environment, ecology, permaculture, living systems and most importantly have a strong interest in other people.

            They love creating a good atmosphere, somewhere filled with joy and laughter. In short they love celebrating life. They're enthused with the idea of taking control over their lives, doing things differently to the mainstream. They enjoy thinking outside the box, lateral thinking, psychology and human nature.

            It is to these personality traits you want this sales copy to appeal to.

            Question, once you've identified the exact audience / buyers market this product appeals to most, next write down the dominant thoughts, feelings, and emotions going through their mind as they seek out the perfect solution to their current problem. Then start writing the sales copy for this business.

            Going for the generic one size fits all model of writing in the vain hope one or two fish might come along and take the hook is mere wishful thinking.

            You need to be a lot more direct and know exactly to which audience you're solving a problem for. And then tailor the wording to their emotions so these visitors to the website resonate emotionally with the benefits on offer.

            I hope you find this added info to be of some use.

            Smoking hot,


            Mark Andrews

            P.S. The crux of the matter is... you need to identify through market research what the dominant emotional trigger is (of the target market) to direct these people into a direct call to action of the company owners choosing.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7309002].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author RayCassidy
          Ouch - I'll consider my boring arse well and truly kicked then ;-)

          Many thanks for the input people. In between the punches I did notice a few very detailed points that I will be taking to the site owner tomorrow morning and using to impress on him the need to pay the price for a decent copywriter.

          Just off to the doctor's now to get my broken nose fixed.

          Thanks very much again for taking the time for such detailed feedback Mark and Mal that video's a corker! Thanks Alex for those couple of pointers as well.
          Ray
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7336347].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author gepisar
            Hello, and this will be my first post on the forum...Yay!

            Re your website

            Where are the FREE goodies? As a visitor, i need something - anything. Teach me something i didn't know. Demonstrate "Solway timber Engineering staff are [] technical specialists". Tell me an obscure technique or a 'trick' that will save me time...

            Even if its a tip on how to save my garden fence, or a way for me to save money by knowing how to test my wooden frames for dry-rot or whatever. I recall an aerial website i went to once. There was advice on there about EVERYTHING. They guy talked about the different frequency of TV signals and how this spectrum required different aerials, and why if you had say A band and D band why that was bad or awkward to get a single aerial solution. He listed WHERE the local broadcast antennas were so i could be sure i was aligning my own aerial before buying a new one. I knew this guy was an expert and if ever i need an aerial - i will seek him out again. This is the reciprocity effect. You give something, then you can ask for something. But, if you give first, you "earn" the right not to ask for something just once, but over and over. If you make it compelling enough, people will share: And there is the second influencing factor: Consensus or "social proof"

            Im still learning, but its ALL about the customer. "Twenty years of tradition" - great, how does that directly translate to the experience im going to have with the company? And, maybe tradition means "unchanging" or "done the old ways" -

            Won any accolades or awards in your industry? If so, that's another influencing factor: Authority. Peoples critical thinking switches off when information comes from an Authority... (Any logos you can stick on there - youre a sustainable provider? Is there a certification? etc...etc...)

            "Contact Us"..... yeah and everyone else! "For an unbeatable experience, get your wood on and call us"...

            ISO'd? If so, wear the logo.

            Its all about eco too: "STOP!!!!!! Before you buy hacked down Brazilian rain Forest you should know about ............"

            The feel i get from the landing page is of STE's commitment. And thats fine, but commitment is normally part of the sales closing process. Your site leads with it - which is why imho, it comes across as "rushing for the sale". Its telling me about the benefits of using STE when really, it's not about the benefit per se, its about the result, as a customer. And the customer ALWAYS wants to feel good. -> Fast car, feels good. -> Earn big money, feels good. ->Lives in luxury designer house, feels good.

            "individually manufactures to exact specification" - is, well.. just what it is:emotionless - remember, most people buy on emotion.

            Lovingly crafted? Designed to meet customers needs and exceed expectations..? Be confident in our project management, take the next step and embark on a wonderful journey...Perfection delivered time and time again... Nothing is more satisfying than building your home for your family- or whoever it's pitched at.

            Sales copy in a nutshell:

            HOOK -> SALT -> Emotional "Word/Picture" -> Call to action.

            Nice clean layout though... rock on! Hope this is a nudge in the right direction and not too harsh! All with the best intent:

            JR
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7348542].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author RayCassidy
              Hey Gepisar cheers for your input too (obviously I didn't crawl far enough into the corner to hide!! ;-)

              The page most people have commented on is the page for the usual business to business big commercial builders who STE is really after.

              There is a separate page for self build Build your own home is the title - I think I loosened up a wee bit there.
              Thanks for chipping in to my education.
              Ray
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7349642].message }}
        • Love this mobile home commercial!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7353061].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Dreadfully, dreadfully boring Ray. Watching paint dry is probably more exciting than reading this. Where is the emotional connection?

      I've just come back from your part of the country, in fact I was looking at a timber framed new build project just a couple of weeks ago, just outside Shieldaig in Ross Shire on the market for £200,000.

      Considering what you can bring to the table - could you not spice this up a tad?

      I mean, this is pretty exciting this style of architectural development here in the UK but the way you've positioned your business with this particular wording? It's straight out of the school of corporate gobbledegook the written language you've used here on your site.

      Is it enticing, is it making me go, "Whoah! I must check out this company a bit more!" Nope. Far from it.

      It's dry, barren, devoid of any character, sanitised claptrap.

      Where's the story behind the company? Tell me, get me excited on the edge of my seat, quivering with anticipation, salivating at the prospect of finding out more about you and what you can do for me... build in me a strong desire to want to do business with you.

      This is straight out of copywriting university in it's current form (school of no idea)..

      Mark? C- but well done for making an effort. A long way to go for a top grade though.

      Back to the drawing board you go.

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7306784].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    That was painful to read.

    You did actually have a couple good benefits.

    But I never would have got that far If I didn't force myself to read it. You need a story and yes it is boring.


    Bill



    .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7307062].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mitchell H
    Looks good seems very neat and well put together. A little boring but depending on who you are specifically targeting that is ok.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7349653].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Ray,

    Whenever you write copy, you need to ask yourself what your target market wants.

    You've nailed down your target market, which is awesome - most people don't do that.

    But now you know you're targeting the big guys, look at what they want, and talk to them about that.

    Some ideas:

    *Low price (I wouldn't make this a huge one, though)

    *Not ******* up orders

    *Delivering on-time to the site

    *Quality craftsmanship, so builders don't have to fix your mistakes

    *Delivery in a wide area

    *Working directly from the blueprints, or any other ways to save builders time

    Etc.

    Hammer out those benefits. What makes this company a better choice than the competition? Etc etc etc

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7358206].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    I just ran a Flesch-Kincaid reading level check on the copy, and it is at a 12th grade level.

    Can I assume that most of your ideal customers have earned their PhD ?

    The grade level I shoot for is about 7th - 8th grade. For comparison, the emails I got from Obama were about a 3rd grade level, and Romney about 7th grade level.

    And notice how most of the copywriters here use short paragraphs. I suspect there might be a reason.

    Marvin

    PS - This post is about 7th grade.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7358310].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author gepisar
      Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

      I just ran a Flesch-Kincaid reading level check on the copy, and it is at a 12th grade level.
      Awesome! Is there an online Kincaid analyser? What a brilliant tip! Who would have thought...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7360525].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by gepisar View Post

        Awesome! Is there an online Kincaid analyser? What a brilliant tip! Who would have thought...
        Thanks!

        I use the grammar check built into MS Word (Tools/Spelling & Grammar ...), and have never checked for an online version. At the bottom of the grammar check results box is the Flesch-Kincaid grade level score.

        Marvin
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7360990].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gepisar
    Just checked my sales copy : 8.7 on the Flesch-Kincaid. Awesome tool! Im well impressed! Thanks to Marvin.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7361333].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eugenedm
    If the owner of the website doesn't want to make sales then don't revise the copy. It will sound salesy if you want to make sales. He needs to decide for himself that it's important to him.

    It's a big misunderstanding between many people that think that you could just write not salesy letter and it will sell on its own.
    Signature

    WARNING: A 50 Million Dollar Man Taught Me His Secret... Which Resulted 6,000 Sign-ups on My Email List.

    "It's easier than you think..."

    => Watch this video here...
    Build Your List to 6,000 Subscribers

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7372714].message }}

Trending Topics