The real "secrect" to 50%+ email open rates (and copywriting skill has little to do with it!)

34 replies
I get really pissed off when I read about "NLP copywriting" or "hypnotic copy" or anything related to that non sense boosting conversions or email open rates.

It's bullshit, or positioning, depending on your perspective of the person offering the advice.

Take me for example: in the last month I've gotten open rates higher than 50%.

And I'm not a great copywriter.

In fact, my open rates had little to do with my writing ability, and everything to do with my relationship with my list AND my ability to segment.

And #2 (ability to segment) is the real "secret".

I send follow-up emails to people who opened the last email. Shocker!!!!

I must be a genius, right?

Follow-up with people who open up an email. Follow-up with people who click a link. Track what pages they go to. Track how long this stick around. If they take enough actions, call them!

I know, i know, I'm a genius.

And you can be one, too.

Being a "true genius" is really taking what works VERY well for other people, and then doing it yourself.

You NEVER have to reinvest the wheel. You just need the courage to ask experienced people for help.

Pay them, sleep with them, offer them weed, I don't care.

Adam

p.s. even in my emails with clients, there are typos and stuff like that. It makes it look like a "real person" wrote it. People can "smell out" when you've hired a corporate gun to write lame copy.
#50% #copywriting #email #open #rates #real #secrect #skill
  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Couldn't agree with you more. Relevancy and relationships, social proof and having a unique brand that stands out are the foundation of marketing. Without those, the copywriting means jack.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

    I get really pissed off when I read about "NLP copywriting" or "hypnotic copy" or anything related to that non sense boosting conversions or email open rates.

    It's bullshit, or positioning, depending on your perspective of the person offering the advice.
    Was wondering what was causing the sonic booms that rattled the windows.

    Stealth bombers from several countries, with laser guided bunker busting munitions have been scrambled to head to this post.

    Take cover.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Was wondering what was causing the sonic booms that rattled the windows.

      Stealth bombers from several countries, with laser guided bunker busting munitions have been scrambled to head to this post.

      Take cover.
      you are too funny.

      The honest truth, and you mention this a lot, is that the real "secrets" of wealth require effort. Work. Mundane crap. And that just isn't exciting.

      Writing a script for a $10 an hour worker who gets clients to not cancel your membership takes work.

      No big shocker there.

      Follow-up ain't rocket science.

      In fact, imho, what MADE Dan Kennedy what he is, is his follow-up.

      Click on a DUI ppc ad. You'll get an initial phone call. But to pay $200-$500 a lead, and just get one call back is just stupidity to me.

      But, thank GOD for idiots. Less work for us!
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      • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
        Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

        The honest truth, and you mention this a lot, is that the real "secrets" of wealth require effort. Work. Mundane crap. And that just isn't exciting.
        Blasphemer!

        If you aren't careful you'll find yourself strapped to a stake, wondering how agony can smell so delicious.

        (Dibs on Adam's ribs)
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Was wondering what was causing the sonic booms that rattled the windows.

      Stealth bombers from several countries, with laser guided bunker busting munitions have been scrambled to head to this post.

      Take cover.
      Lmao! How right you are.

      On another note, I've got more than 12 years of hypnosis and NLP training and practice from coaching and counseling. As fun as it sounds, the OP is right. NLP and hypnosis techniques don't mean jack in copywriting.

      Guess I better head to the bunker now lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

    I get really pissed off when I read about "NLP copywriting" or "hypnotic copy" or anything related to that non sense boosting conversions or email open rates.

    It's bullshit, or positioning, depending on your perspective of the person offering the advice.
    It's just positioning... no need to get upset about it.

    Some people get upset with name droppers. But again, it's just positioning.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      It's just positioning... no need to get upset about it.

      Some people get upset with name droppers. But again, it's just positioning.

      Alex
      Alex,

      As a lover of marketing, I get positioning. I get differentiation.

      I know the power of positioning. I use it all time, to my benefit.

      But, I feel at least in this sub-forum, people need to look under the hook and realize what's really going on.

      And when you do, it's like, "Oh. That's the "secret"? You're kidding me, right?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

        Alex,

        As a lover of marketing, I get positioning. I get differentiation.

        I know the power of positioning. I use it all time, to my benefit.

        But, I feel at least in this sub-forum, people need to look under the hook and realize what's really going on.

        And when you do, it's like, "Oh. That's the "secret"? You're kidding me, right?"
        Good point.

        Reminds me of watching a good card trick. Once you know the secret, it becomes no big deal.

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author lanew
    Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post


    Pay them, sleep with them, offer them weed, I don't care.
    I love it. Just beautiful. ha! and so damn true.

    Be well,

    Lane
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    I completely disagree.

    If the email campaigns I create don't inspire PASSIVE action; if they don't close the selling process I began in my first touch...

    ...I've failed.

    I have NO interest in chasing sales.

    The point of email marketing, at least from my perspective, is engaging my list or raw prospects in a conversation that resonates... and persuades action.

    And in terms of getting emails opened...

    Creating a compelling, inspiring, curiousity-initiating subject is crucial.

    Sounds like your list already knows you and opened your emails based on reputation (or already having cultivated personally relationships.)

    Speaking of relationships...

    Yes, absolutely...

    Creating relationships is the only authentic way to become sustainably successful - both emotionally AND financially.

    But again...

    The ONLY way to do that (i.e. create intimate relationships) on a mass scale is pinpointing what circumstances my prospects are experiencing, connecting with those issues, and POSITIONING my solution as their ONLY call-to-action.

    Again...

    I want prospects to want my help and reach out to me.

    If I have to pick up the phone - when they haven't taken any tangible action - except for reading my emails, I can't be asked to waste my time.

    Sorry.

    If people want to benefit from my help, they have to take the initiative.

    And if I'm not converting "enough" action, I need to look at my positioning, hooks, execution and call-to-action.

    "Why haven't I built up enough consequence for people to reach out?"

    Mark

    P.S. Some people enjoy picking up the phone and closing sales the old school way. I'm not one of them. I'd rather read a book and passively live off of the campaigns that do resonate (i.e convert.)

    P.P.S. I firmly believe what I just said (i.e. that if people want my help, they are the ones who should take action.) Why? Because if I'm offering something, you can bet your life on the fact that it benefits people.

    I'm NOT selling; I'm offering the opportunity to benefit from my solution.

    To some, it might sound like I'm putting myself (and my product or service) on a pedestal.

    But prospects need to admit they need help and feel excited about taking action for a solution, any solution, to really be of value to them.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      I completely disagree.

      With what?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

        With what?
        Just with the amount of effort.

        I subscribe to pull marketing, not push.

        That's another reason I don't watch my stats like a hawk.

        Sales are being made... or they're not.

        I'm not going to see who is opening emails or how long people are staying on my site.

        I've found that information is irelavant.

        At least for me.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
          Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post


          I'm not going to see who is opening emails or how long people are staying on my site.

          I've found that information is irelavant.

          At least for me.

          Mark
          That mindset means you are leaving money on the table. Probably a lot.

          And I get that process isn't "you". Or doesn't fit your style.

          But you can hire a person who will be happy to do that follow-up.

          When I coach my clients, I like to ask, "How much is enough for you?" "Are you willing to make a lifestyle change to get to "enough""?

          The honest truth in my book is that a team of people is required to build an effective sales funnel because everybody brings a different thing to the table. Or skillset. Or mindset.

          One isn't any better than the other.

          But if the goal is to make a LOT of money, then the water holes need to be plugged.

          Adam

          p.s. there is software that assign points to get action a person takes, and once enough actions are taken, the lead to sent to a call center to followed-up with.

          In that model, you just create the machine, and lets the internal controls do their thing. In other words, you wouldn't have to focus on at such a granular level.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
            Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post


            But if the goal is to make a LOT of money, then the water holes need to be plugged.
            Again...

            I completely disagree.

            I could actually state the same thing to you.

            You're leaving a LOT of money on the table - if your emails aren't closing sales, for you.

            I brought in over $30,000 this month from emails I wrote for J.V.'s alone.

            For some people on this forum, that might not be a lot.

            However...

            For the amount of time I committed to reveal that number, I'm very happy.

            The fact is...

            You can only call so many people.

            But if you're perfectly positioned in the marketplace (whatever marketplace that is) and your email marketing campaign is reaching your prospects en masse...

            ...you'll make WAY more money (while saving tons of energy and time) if your copy is doing all of the hard work for you.

            Could I make more money if I had a team working for me?

            Maybe.

            But I'm not even remotely interested in facilitating such an endeavor.

            Don't get me wrong Adam...

            I'm not putting down your hard work.

            I just believe that my copy should inspire action on the part of my prospects, without me having to exert my energy to close the sales or secure the clientele.

            Mark
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            • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
              You're leaving a LOT of money on the table - if your emails aren't closing sales, for you.

              I 100% agree with this statement.

              However, there is another segment that is willing and able to buy this is being ignored because they require more hand holding.




              For the amount of time I committed to reveal that number, I'm very happy.
              I see this as a lifestyle choice, which is neither good or bad. It just is.



              The fact is...

              You can only call so many people.
              100% true. However, I can hire people to do that work. Which is a lifestyle choice. Again, it's neither right or wrong.

              But if you're perfectly positioned in the marketplace (whatever marketplace that is) and your email marketing campaign is reaching your prospects en masse...

              ...you'll make WAY more money (while saving tons of energy and time) if your copy is doing all of the hard work for you.

              That depends on your business model and your lifetime customer value, and the average length of time of a customer of yours.

              If you are purely an info-markter, then I say your statement is true. However, once you start selling more than 1's & 0's, like time, coaching, productions, seminars (whatever), hand holding is very important.



              Could I make more money if I had a team working for me?

              Maybe.

              But I'm not even remotely interested in facilitating such an endeavor.
              Again, this is your choice. I believe that a business must be centered on the strenghts, values, and beliefs of the person who owns the business.

              You've created something that works for you. And I honor and respect that.

              I just believe that my copy should inspire action on the part of my prospects, without me having to exert my energy to close the sales or secure the clientele.
              I think this concept works well for low priced products. But to have a client for 3+ years, I think more is needed. And that's were the real money is at.

              adam

              p.s. congrats on the 30k.

              Mark[/QUOTE]
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Another secret is if you hold their freshly purchased download hostage until they "register" their purchase with their name and email so they can get product updates and support...

    it most usually results in 95-100%. (Sometimes higher than 100% if they forgot to download for some reason the first time but bookmarked the product registration page to their favorites and opt in multiple times later).
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    segmenting, recency.

    two huge factors.

    but if you're telling me you're getting 50% opens to your WHOLE list... thats another story.

    sure, you can segment your buyers list... then segment the buyers who clicked or opened recently....

    so the numbers can be a bit deceiving.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post


      sure, you can segment your buyers list... then segment the buyers who clicked or opened recently....

      so the numbers can be a bit deceiving.
      You my friend hit the nail on the head!

      But, must newbies don't know that! A copywriter will say, "my average open rate for a clients is XX%" Or, "My conversion rates from optin to sale is X%"

      But without knowing the source of traffic and how qualified the traffic is, to use your words, "the numbers can be a bit deceiving".

      My personal litmus test is google adwords. You have two funnels, and see what makes you the most profit per 1,000 impressions over a period of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    very encouraging for average copywriting skill guy like me!!!!
    Email marketing is all about relationship and segmentation, and you did it really well... Thx for the informative idea
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

    You NEVER have to reinvest the wheel. You just need the courage to ask experienced people for help.

    Pay them, sleep with them, offer them weed, I don't care.

    Adam

    p.s. even in my emails with clients, there are typos and stuff like that. It makes it look like a "real person" wrote it. People can "smell out" when you've hired a corporate gun to write lame copy.
    For the record, I did not have sex with Adam. But he did offer.

    He knows how to inspire a copywriter to do their best work.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      For the record, I did not have sex with Adam. But he did offer.

      He knows how to inspire a copywriter to do their best work.

      - Rick Duris
      Too bad. There are probably a lot of people in this forum who'd buy that video. Need to build your list in a hurry?
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      For the record, I did not have sex with Adam. But he did offer.

      He knows how to inspire a copywriter to do their best work.

      - Rick Duris
      Rick,

      I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

      I thought our NDA covered not disclosing our sexual relationship to others. I hope the FBI doesn't probe us. I may have to testify in congress some day.

      So now everybody knows that not only don't I get sex with my wife, but you too.

      I love you man!

      Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author Altin
    Totally agree! I used to segment my list recently and I'm seeing significant boost in open rates. It could be also a good way to help clean your list some times.
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  • Profile picture of the author CopyMonster
    Nice bit of "controversy" in the subject.

    However... the next big "revelation"?

    For me, not so much.

    As it's been said before... it's NOT all about the copy. SHOCK!

    Yes, many copywriters will tell you different. Just as dentists/surgeons/mechanics/lawyers/consultants will tell you it's better to fix this small issue now rather than deal with a much bigger problem later, copywriters will tell you copy is KING. It's merely a part of the game that some choose to play. Just recognize it for what it is.

    Fact is... many variables go into open rates in addition to copy, one of the most important being the sender and the reason for that is the relationship between the reader and the sender.

    BUT... all things being the same, better copy triumphs over average copy - especially when there's no or little relationship. So when your financial health is on the line, are you going to go with any old El Cheapo word hack you can find or a word surgeon who really knows what they're doing? Me... I know which I'd choose... EVERY... SINGLE... TIME!

    Consider all the biggest marketers on the planet... the copy for their promotions is solid if not brilliant. They don't invest in their copy just because they like to fund the lifestyles of their favorite word wizards.

    @ Seth - 12 years? Really? Hmmm... must kinda suck not being able to use all that training in your writing. Curious though what elements of NLP have you tested in your writing?
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    Scary good...
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Per those who disagreed with this, seriously ask yourself what YOU look at FIRST before opening an email. It's the "from" line, not the subject line isn't it?

    Seems like some of us get so caught up in marketing and how great we believe our product is that we forget that we ourselves are consumers. Sometimes it's better to step into the consumer's shoes and out of your "I love my product" bubble, in which case it will become clear...relationship building comes first.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato2
    "there are typos and stuff like that. It makes it look like a "real person" wrote it. People can "smell out" when you've hired a corporate gun to write lame copy".
    BS to your P.S.Here's why:

    There are a lot of people that hate typo's. Typo's are unprofessional and everyone with a good word processor has spell check, with that said, there is no excuse for typo's in copy, emails, content writing, etc. Maybe grammar related issues but not typo's.

    Typo's make you look lame man, and if you expect people to take you seriously or pay top dollar for your copy or whatever, then you need to spend the time in order to make your typo's disappear. It's really a no brainer.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by wrcato2 View Post

      "there are typos and stuff like that. It makes it look like a "real person" wrote it. People can "smell out" when you've hired a corporate gun to write lame copy".
      BS to your P.S.Here's why:

      There are a lot of people that hate typo's. Typo's are unprofessional and everyone with a good word processor has spell check, with that said, there is no excuse for typo's in copy, emails, content writing, etc. Maybe grammar related issues but not typo's.

      Typo's make you look lame man, and if you expect people to take you seriously or pay top dollar for your copy or whatever, then you need to spend the time in order to make your typo's disappear. It's really a no brainer.
      Why don't you read this:

      http://www.markjoyner.name/temp/halbert/coa.pdf

      I think this copywriter did okay. Have you heard of him? What's his name now?

      Here's the main issue: in the absence of signs of credibility the user recongizes, the user will use their own criteria to judge quality. "typos" are easy things even idiots can notice.

      But, most people judge quality based on personal beliefs that are wrong.

      (hint: learn the "stupid" criteria your clients judge whether you're credible or not. You might be really surprised. This is done at a subconsciousness level, so you need to hire a pro and suck out this information.)

      But, professionals get paid to get results. As long as the results manifest, you can write crappy (and the clients don't mind one little bit!)
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    • Profile picture of the author fated82
      Originally Posted by wrcato2 View Post

      "there are typos and stuff like that. It makes it look like a "real person" wrote it. People can "smell out" when you've hired a corporate gun to write lame copy".
      BS to your P.S.Here's why:

      There are a lot of people that hate typo's. Typo's are unprofessional and everyone with a good word processor has spell check, with that said, there is no excuse for typo's in copy, emails, content writing, etc. Maybe grammar related issues but not typo's.

      Typo's make you look lame man, and if you expect people to take you seriously or pay top dollar for your copy or whatever, then you need to spend the time in order to make your typo's disappear. It's really a no brainer.
      Agree...you may get away with a few grammar mistakes but typo really shout "unprofessional"!

      I believe you can still write in a conversational way without compromising on the professionalism of your copy.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by fated82 View Post

        Agree...you may get away with a few grammar mistakes but typo really shout "unprofessional"!
        I VIGOROUSLY disagree. And yes, I have hard proof.

        IT ALL DEPENDS on the relationship you have with your list/market. The more intimate/personal your relationship, the more typos and grammar problems serve to ENHANCE the relationship, not diminish.

        Don't go crazy but don't beat yourself about them either.

        - Rick Duris
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        • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

          And yes, I have hard proof.


          - Rick Duris
          You took pictures?

          I hope the lighting was good!
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  • Profile picture of the author davidreese
    So if I understand correctly, segment out my clicks and opens and send emails that are more specific for follow-up. I would think this also helps keep the unsubscribe rate lower since it would keep the follow-up to those that already expressed a specific interest to the original email.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by davidreese View Post

      So if I understand correctly, segment out my clicks and opens and send emails that are more specific for follow-up. I would think this also helps keep the unsubscribe rate lower since it would keep the follow-up to those that already expressed a specific interest to the original email.
      You are 100% correct.

      Also of importance, if your email software allows this (infusionsoft does), make sure to start/stop a campaign based on actions they take.

      For example, a starter series that is meant to weed out losers should contains some emails in the sequence that filter out the losers. Once a user opens an email or clicks a link, they get out of the loser group, and put onto another series.

      Also of importance, make sure you tag the person with a certain pyschographic tag.

      One tag is "open email", second is "clicking the email link".

      That way in the future you can target subscribers based on prior behavior in topics they are more interested in.

      For example, in my tax practice, some want IRS updates, some want personal updates, some want offers, some a feel good story, some want scare the shit out you stories.

      It's important to know that everybody reacts and responses to different messages.

      Also, make sure that 80% of the emails you send are content. 20% have a pitch.

      That last line, "make sure that 80% of the emails you send are content. 20% have a pitch." repeat 100X.

      Feel free to send me a royalty check when your revenues double.

      Adam

      p.s. What I've learned about email marketing comes from Perry Marshall. Personally, I think he's the best at this. You check out his program at

      http://www.perrymarshall.com/product...der-boot-camp/

      or get the lite version at:

      http://www.perrymarshall.com/product...sible-streams/

      DISCLAIMER: I've spent a shit load of money with him so I'm probably biased in that he's the best. There are probably other teachers out there that are better, but I love Perry & really resonate with his story and style.

      Find the person that works for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    See, the thing is, marketing creates perception and perception frames reality. Even the "from" line is perceived through the filter created by marketing.

    The reason you look at the from line and think you know someone is because of the marketing that led you to get on the list that gets sent with the from line in the first place.
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