Do you just wing it, or do you follow a consistent routine to write sales copy?

16 replies
Kind of quiet in here tonight so I thought I'd toss this out for comment...

When you're writing sales copy, do you have a specific routine or formula you follow? For example, do you always go to forums first to see what people in that niche are talking about? Do you first, as some suggest, decide the feeling you want your reader to have before you write a word? What is your process for writing sales copy?

I only write sales copy for myself, but I ask because more often than not I tend to just wing it. Sometimes that produces my best converting copy, but it has also produced my worst converting copy. I'm thinking I need a littlle more discipline so I'm looking for ideas from you pros.

Thanks!
#consistent #copy #follow #routine #sales #wing #write
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    For me it's searching and coming up with a BIG idea, the overall theme and right appeal
    all rolled into one.

    Digging deeper into this idea is knowing what messages your audience has been bombarded with before and you become the person who brings a knew voice a new something which connects with a frustration your market has.

    It may mean being the consumer advocate and figuratively throwing rocks at a common enemy you name.

    Looking for those types of opportunities often lead to a big vein of gold ready for mining.

    Mature markets are just as ripe as newer ones I find.

    Food for thought Dennis.

    Best,
    Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Food for thought indeed. Especially the part about knowing what messages your market has been bombarded with already. In many ways I do play the role of consumer advocate in my newsletters, so that idea is very logical to me, and looking for a USP from that perspective seems rather natural. If I get no more replies, your single answer was well worth starting this thread to get.

    Thanks Ewen!
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Food for thought indeed. Especially the part about knowing what messages your market has been bombarded with already. In many ways I do play the role of consumer advocate in my newsletters, so that idea is very logical to me, and looking for a USP from that perspective seems rather natural. If I get no more replies, your single answer was well worth starting this thread to get.

      Thanks Ewen!
      I'll expand on this with a couple of examples.

      Say in the investment newsletter market.

      Somebody could go in right now and be the voice to the retiree who has lost money in the markets, has turned to panic and higher risk investments to recover.

      He then becomes a easy target for the extremists, on one side the end of America is coming and on the other end is the boom time created by the turmoil.

      The new voice can come in and say "you've swayed by the siren song of fear and greed and look it's got you further in the hole.

      It's not your fault because schesters prey on people like you.

      Come on over to this safe haven where modest gains take place and risk is so low it's minuscule."

      Then in the trades servicing you have 2 ever present frustrations consumers have with them, they turn up late and don't clean up after them.

      Virtually any trade in any city, any state, any country
      it will be as rare as hens teeth a tradie guaranteeing that will never happen,
      let alone saying there will be a cash payout if it ever did happen.

      Those are 2 examples of ripe pickings in mature markets right now.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Somebody could go in right now and be the voice to the retiree who has lost money in the markets, has turned to panic and higher risk investments to recover.

        Ewen

        Dennis,

        My practice is primilary composed of professionals, so...

        I look at why professionals get disbarred, banned, or put in jail.

        I look at review sites and see why people got pissed off.

        In short, I look for horror stories. If you find one that is really well written, try to get ahold of that person. Angry people LOVE to bitch and moan.

        Listen.

        All you have to do is be the solution to their pain.

        Once we have that information, the copy will write itself.

        Adam


        p.s. thx for the comment you posted on another thread of mine. I enjoyed reading your reply.
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  • I like to start by reading the research and jotting notes for possible bullets/headlines while keeping alert for possible hooks. I was working a letter for a golf driver when I read it was designed by Lamborghini!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Joe Ditzel View Post

      I like to start by reading the research and jotting notes for possible bullets/headlines while keeping alert for possible hooks. I was working a letter for a golf driver when I read it was designed by Lamborghini!
      Thanks Joe. I guess where you get your research from would depend on the market you're working. I'm assuming that would include material from the client, forums, search engine findings, books, competitors, industry newsletters ... am I missing anything obvious or highly valuable?

      @Ewen - Thanks for the additional examples. I was going to cite one of my own but just realized it's how late it is, so I'm going to hit the rack. I appreciate the extra time you took.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        @Ewen - Thanks for the additional examples. I was going to cite one of my own but just realized it's how late it is, so I'm going to hit the rack. I appreciate the extra time you took.
        I'd be interested in reading your example so we can dissect it further
        and add to our knowledge.

        Best,
        Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author rajeevsh
    I start reading a lot of the classics, and other sales copy that I come across and like. That gets me into the mode of writing. I try to then come up with a persona of the average customer, a list of their objections, just a list of whatever I can.

    Once I want to start, I just keep writing whatever comes to me without any edits. Lastly, proofreading and then putting it up. I do a lot of testing and improve the copy as I go. As far as I am concerned, I read a *lot* which means I always have an idea or two to start off with. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremey
      Once I have a paying client (beyond the Skype chat prospecting phase, etc), I will get them on the phone and have them talk. I don't care if it takes an hour or three hours, or 4 different conversations. Simply asking a few pointed questions about their business and what their goals are...Who their competition is...What is it about them or their business that makes them so special?

      Those simple conversation starters can really lead to some interesting places if I'm asking the right questions and know when to shut up.

      I like to break through the "business" part of the conversation to where I can get a client to share their genuine excitement for their product or service, where they will let down their guard and begin to share their true feelings and passion for what they are doing.

      I've found many a direct quote from a client can actually make it into a sales piece once they begin to open up and share their excitement and ideas. If they're engaged in the conversation they are going to be more openly creative and free in their expression, without allowing the critical mind to stop the flow of ideas. There's some real good info to be found there.


      I also like to ask tough questions during this phase. I will push folks beyond the comfort zone sometimes to discover that they sometimes don't have answers for some very important questions. It really helps to get the creative blood flowing both on my end and the clients.

      From this I'll begin working on the USP for the copy...Based on my discussions and interviews, what is the obvious takeaway that is going to form the basis of the "hook" for the sales piece. And how will that be shaped and developed into something unique?

      From there I will also have a lot of jumping off places for research. If I've done a good job, I know about their market, their competition, what makes their prospects tick, and what the client can offer that they can't find anywhere else. That's when I'll hit the web and start doing the research....If it's a new niche I'll try to break down the product/service into simple and basic concepts.

      Then I just start plugging all that information and research into the sales letter format...Editing as I write, then going back and revising a first copy...Usually taking out large paragraphs that are superfluous, and rearranging some concepts and ideas as well.

      That's the process I use for sales letters and emails. The approach website copy (home page stuff, etc) is of course much more basic but still involves discussion with the prospect early on to nail down their goals and develop a USP for the site. I get much more information for simple website copy from my questionnaire than I do for direct response copy.

      EDIT: I think as with a lot of writers, the above comprises about 80% of the work. I've found the actual "sitting down and writing" phase takes no more than 20% of the time on a sales project...For website copy, that ratio is more evenly split though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    @rajeevsh - I've read a few copywriting books (Sugarman, Bly, Hopkins and a few others). My trouble is, I have a hard time applying what I've read into my writing. Perhaps it's because not enough of the material has really sunk in yet. What would you consider the classics? Any recommended reading?

    @Jeremey - To be honest, as I started reading your comments I thought it didn't apply to me because I'm writing for myself, not clients, so I didn't have anyone to question. However, I subscribe to the idea that we shouldn't believe everything we think, so I thought, why not ask myself questions? Some of the best things I've written (not copy) were the result of questioning my motives and beliefs. Thanks! I'm going to interview myself on my next sales letter.

    @Adam - I hadn't thought of reading review sites, probably because I usually dismiss them out of hand because so many are just fake reviews intended to earn affiliate commissions rather than to inform, but I like the idea. I'm definitely going to try that. Thanks.

    Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. You've definitely given me some things to think about.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


      @Adam - I hadn't thought of reading review sites, probably because I usually dismiss them out of hand because so many are just fake reviews intended to earn affiliate commissions rather than to inform, but I like the idea. I'm definitely going to try that. Thanks.
      You're welcome.

      Again, the trick is to read the well written angry ones. Those are real.

      They'll contain every possible screw up in the book.

      You as the copywriter just need to thread in how you completely avoid those issues with a Superior process or internal control, or whatever.

      Plus, you can interview them, for free. Again, pissed off people LOVE to talk.

      Adam
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        To add further weight to hunting for nasty problems,
        promos naming problems and fixing them have
        some of the highest response rates.

        Famed copywriter Gary Bencivenga
        has problem at the front of his success formula.

        You look at the giant mailers in the investment newsletter business,
        Agora and Weiss Research, mostly start out naming
        an imminent crises, like end of America.

        So there is the problems your readers don't know about
        and there is those that are fully aware.

        Another distinction for ya.

        Best,
        Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremey
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


      @Jeremey - To be honest, as I started reading your comments I thought it didn't apply to me because I'm writing for myself, not clients, so I didn't have anyone to question. However, I subscribe to the idea that we shouldn't believe everything we think, so I thought, why not ask myself questions? Some of the best things I've written (not copy) were the result of questioning my motives and beliefs. Thanks! I'm going to interview myself on my next sales letter.
      Thanks Dennis! You may believe that you know everything about your own product or business, but I would definitely recommend posing yourself the same questions you would ask if you were a prospect...Continue probing and see what you can find...You may discover that some of the assumptions or beliefs you held about your own business need further development, or lead yourself to some important revelations you may not have even realized!

      I was my own first "client" for many years, and before I really began to study copywriting I would assume an awful lot in my own writing. It wasn't until I began writing for others that I realized how narrow my scope was when I was writing for my own business, and I began to make a conscious effort to treat myself as a client when I sat down to write for my own business.

      The differences between my own first sales letter to my second, to the new one I'll be running with later this month are so vastly different in scope...and I attribute a lot of that to understanding what it's like to be a client and asking myself the same sort of questions.

      -Jeremey
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        I'd be interested in reading your example so we can dissect it further
        and add to our knowledge.
        I didn't have a specific example in mind, I was thinking of creating a scenario to use as an example, then address how one might approach it with what you wrote in mind.


        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post


        So there is the problems your readers don't know about
        and there is those that are fully aware.
        I was aware of that approach, and sort of tried it once, with disappointing results. I'll have to think on it some more. Thanks, Ewen.


        Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

        Again, the trick is to read the well written angry ones. Those are real.

        They'll contain every possible screw up in the book.
        Yes, I believe that. It also occurred to me finding these people can help you make a better product, not just write better sales copy. Awesome! Thanks, Adam.


        Originally Posted by Jeremey View Post

        Thanks Dennis! You may believe that you know everything about your own product or business, but I would definitely recommend posing yourself the same questions you would ask if you were a prospect...Continue probing and see what you can find...You may discover that some of the assumptions or beliefs you held about your own business need further development, or lead yourself to some important revelations you may not have even realized!
        You know, I can easily believe that because I've seen enough water go under the bridge to know my perspective is always narrow, because it's only one of what, seven billion people on the planet? In every area of life, we see with a narrow field of vision. Thanks, Jeremy.
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  • Profile picture of the author rajeevsh
    Oh, definitely.

    As far as books go, I love some of the books of David Ogilvy. I also read/watch and try to dissect a lot of ads, both the classics as well as what we see nowadays. That, of course, isn't done prior to everything I write but in general, and especially if you take notes, reading good ads will mean you are always brimming with ideas. Even ads that didn't work can teach someone a lot.

    I also like Robert Bly's books which, as you have mentioned, you already read. Scientific advertising, too, is excellent.
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  • Profile picture of the author fated82
    I don't write my own copy but I do have a standard routine and checklist I gave my writers to follow. usually I will start with a brief. In it, they describe all the information about the product we are writing. From, the target audience to the emotional hook we will be using and the offer we will use in the copy.

    Once the brief is sent, the writer will follow the brief and write the first draft. He will also compare the draft to a checklist I created for all the writers so that the copy follow a certain standard I want.

    I realize most successful copy have the same standard. Example, a good headline, decribing a problem, providing solution, proof and strong offer. All these elements must be found in most of the copy we produce.

    So to answer the OP question, yes, we have a standard operating procedure, we don't wing it.
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