What strategy do you think would be best? Total/monthly/trial?

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alpha123

So I am designing my sales page and I am wondering, should I use one of these formats (In what order?):

Explain the program and then how much it costs as:

- Full price, You can pay two monthly payments of..., before that though why not Trial a week for a penny

- Full price, You can Trial a week for a penny, And then, if you decide to carry on, it's only two monthly payments of...

Your thoughts or any recommended guidelines?

Ill probably split test (How do I do this?)

Alpha123,

Here's one way to go about it.....

$2,200 - One Time Payment

$1,250 - Two Monthly Payments

$957 - Three Monthly Payments

As for the trial for a penny, I would not recommend that.... It is saying what you are offering has almost no value....

Instead, I would charge an "appropriate percentage"..... If you offering is $90 a month, charge $21 for the "trial" week...

As always, split test to see what works in your market.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks

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Moriarty

11 years ago

Do you have any products you can offer at a lower price so that your visitors can get a feel of what your idea is like in practice? That way they can see if they like you.

Split testing - this can take many forms. In the case of a landing page, you will have two pages with the same url and radically different content. Knowing how to do this is an artform all of its own, it's not hard to learn it demands a lot of your imagination. Change the content of this page every week, month - number of visits? Up to you. It's your judgement you're following. In any case, one will be a clear winner. (If it isn't then you aren't testing properly - you've changed the background color, not the headline). If it isn't a clear result, change something else and test that. Once you are getting meaningful results, fine tune again. It is a real learning process, and one that will give you incredible insights into the things your traffic likes.

You can use this across all your site too. It's one reason that PPC specialists like Howie Jacobson are employed for more money than their measly campaigns generate. The things he finds out through PPC go straight onto the bill boards across the country, onto the TV - all because they have been carefully refined through split testing to meet the real needs of the customer.

Not the needs perceived by the management.

Thanks

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Alpha123

11 years ago

Thank's for your replies.

I am new to all this so appreciate it.

I am in the process of creating my first product and my mind is traveling at 100miles an hour! There's so much to do!

Thanks
1 reply

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Alex Cohen

11 years ago

Alpha123,

Ignore what the Software Creation Expert said about trials.

They're a proven way to introduce your offering to your prospects. And if your product or service provides true value, a good percentage of those who take the trial will become customers.

Alex

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Alpha123,

Ignore what the Software Creation Expert said about trials.

They're a proven way to introduce your offering to your prospects. And if your product or service provides true value, a good percentage of those who take the trial will become customers.

Alex

Alex,

You missed what I wrote... I never wrote trials were bad....

Let me quote it here...

As for the trial for a penny, I would not recommend that.... It is saying what you are offering has almost no value....

Instead, I would charge an "appropriate percentage"..... If you offering is $90 a month, charge $21 for the "trial" week...

You actually think you are going to get real paying customers by offering a penny trial? Really? Are you serious?

Maybe, if it is a "run of the mill" $7 per month Internet Marketing membership website...

If it is not, you'll end up with a ton of freebie seekers.... while telling your prospects you value your product at a penny.... Not a good long term business strategy....

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks
1 reply

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Pusateri

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

You actually think you are going to get real paying customers by offering a penny trial? Really? Are you serious? Honestly?

Maybe, if it is a "run of the mill" $7 per month Internet Marketing membership website...

If it is not, you'll end up with a ton of freebie seekers.... while telling your prospects you value your product at a penny.... Not a good long term business strategy....

Rich, c'mon...

Ever hear of the puppy-dog close?

Or how about the pusher's classic, "first one's on me."

A test drive doesn't attract joy riders or make anyone think the car has zero value.

How well do you think it would go over if someone wanted to test drive a car and the salesman said, "Sure, that'll be $15."

Free trials work. They always have. The potential customer gets to experience the product and learn its value firsthand without any risk of loss. Then they can either A) pay-up to continue or B) do without the product.

If the thing performs as claimed and provides real value, the vast majority will chose A.

Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Rich, c'mon...

Ever hear of the puppy-dog close?

Or how about the pusher's classic, "first one's on me."

A test drive doesn't attract joy riders or make anyone think the car has zero value.

How well do you think it would go over if someone wanted to test drive a car and the salesman said, "Sure, that'll be $15."

Free trials work. They always have. The potential customer gets to extperience the product and learn its value firsthand without any risk of loss. Then they can either A) pay-up to continue or B) do without the product.

If the thing performs as claimed and provides real value, the vast majority will chose A.

Pusateri,

There is a definitely a difference of how Copywriters view "success" and what the business owner sees...

Copywriters see...

50% of the visitors sign up for a penny.....

They did great...

But, their average customer lifetime value is two pennies....

Business owners see....

Average customer lifetime value....

They could care less how many "penny customers" they have...

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks
1 reply

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Pusateri

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Pusateri,

There is a definitely a difference of how Copywriters view "success" and what the business owner sees...

Copywriters see...

50% of the visitors sign up for a penny.....

They did great...

But, their average customer lifetime value is two pennies....

Business owners see....

Average customer lifetime value....

They could care less how many "penny customers" they have...

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Rich, I understand the lifetime value of a customer very well. My business is built long term relationships.

Why are you assuming the penny (or free) trial folks won't stay on at full price if the service meets their expectations during the trial period?

Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Rich, I understand the lifetime value of a customer very well. My business is built long term relationships.

Why are you assuming the penny (or free) trial folks won't stay on at full price if the service meets their expectations during the trial period?

Pusateri,

I am looking at human behavior in general.....

People will take something if it is free.... They will "buy" if it is a penny....

Why? They don't have to think about if they are really getting value.

I doesn't take Gary Halbert to "convert" for a penny.....

In the membership site example here.....

How hard is it to convert a "penny customer" into a $97 per month customer? Even if you provided awesome value, the vast majority will not even buy a single month. So, your "initial conversion" was not a "real conversion."

When it comes to a "trial," I would still charge an "appropriate percentage" and show them they'll get ten times the value. If they won't pay an "appropriate percentage" they were not really a solid prospect.... They were just a time and money waster...

Until I see scientific proof that sales copy bringing in "penny customers" has a greater average customer lifetime value than those paying an "appropriate percentage," I'm not buying in....

All we have now are cliches and WAGS (Wild A$$ Guesses)....

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks
1 reply

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Pusateri

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Pusateri,

I am looking at human behavior in general.....

People will take something if it is free.... They will "buy" if it is a penny....

Why? They don't have to think about if they are really getting value.

I doesn't take Gary Halbert to "convert" for a penny.....

In the membership site example here.....

How hard is it to convert a "penny customer" into a $97 per month customer? Even if you provided awesome value, the vast majority will not even buy a single month. So, your "initial conversion" was not a "real conversion."

When it comes to a "trial," I would still charge an "appropriate percentage" and show them they'll get ten times the value. If they won't pay an "appropriate percentage" they were not really a solid prospect.... They were just a time and money waster...

I think anyone who follows your advise is missing the boat. For a digital product or membership site, the cost of servicing a customer is negligible.

The potential downside is minute, the potential upside large.

Have you ever charged an "appropriate percentage" for a trial?

I admit I haven't. But I have given away a lot of stuff (including trials) that turned into a lot more in sales. (That's Reciprocity on your Cialdini scorecard.)

How do you feel about guarantees?

You know, functionally, a 30 day money-back guarantee and a 30 day free trial that bills at the end are the same thing. But one is easier for the prospect to say yes to.

Thanks
2 replies

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BudaBrit

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

You know, functionally, a 30 day money-back guarantee and a 30 day free trial that bills at the end are the same thing. But one is easier for the prospect to say yes to.

And here we get the answer.

It was so hard not to write: "And here we get to the crux of the argument." but then I remembered my new found knowledge.

I will be doing some "free" trials, etc.

If you have anything you can up-sell, then surely giving away a free trial allows you to not only show off your product/service but to get hold of those email addresses you can then up-sell to.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

I think anyone who follows your advise is missing the boat. For a digital product or membership site, the cost of servicing a customer is negligible.

The potential downside is minute, the potential upside large.

Have you ever charged an "appropriate percentage" for a trial?

I admit I haven't. But I have given away a lot of stuff (including trials) that turned into a lot more in sales. (That's Reciprocity on your Cialdini scorecard.)

How do you feel about guarantees?

You know, functionally, a 30 day money-back guarantee and a 30 day free trial that bills at the end are the same thing. But one is easier for the prospect to say yes to.

Pusateri,

If you are just looking at cost.... It is small if it is mostly or all automated.... But, there is always some additional cost for each member.... Some members need lots of hand holding.... You must figure that in....

The problem is...... You sell them a membership for a penny.... Then, you need to convert them again to pay the full amount....

Let's say we are charging $60 per month when they "really" pay us...

I see it a huge hurdle to convince someone the "value" went from a penny to $600 per month... Instead, it is much easier to convince them your $14 two week trial has a $600 per month "value."

I have charged a "appropriate percentage".... "New" revenue is slightly more..... Average lifetime customer value skyrockets... The amount of "time wasters" was cut down dramatically.

Oh, reciprocity...... It is a wonderful theory...... The problem is in the "real world" there is little reciprocity..... Now, dealing with hundreds of thousands or millions of people on the Internet, it may begin to "kick in."

What I have personally witnessed myself and in my clients' businesses is the large majority of people will take what they can get free or cheaply... and they have no intention of ever paying full price.

Even after you have demonstrated awesome value, many will still focus on price... Human nature again....

I know you'll go back to "value".....

I have worked with these people personally.... They want to build their businesses.... They were providing awesome value... The theory of reciprocity rarely kicked in...

Myself, I love offering a Money Back Guarantee if it is on an electronic information product that has almost zero added cost for each new customer....

I don't like offering a Money Back Guarantee for a product that has a substantial added cost for each new customer.... For an established business, they know over time how the numbers will work out... But, a new business can be crippled by this cost...

You wrote...

You know, functionally, a 30 day money-back guarantee and a 30 day free trial that bills at the end are the same thing. But one is easier for the prospect to say yes to.

I think they are vastly different....

A 30 day money-back guarantee means they have paid full price and you have their first month's payment on day one... and you rebill for the second month....

A 30 day free trial..... You get nothing on day one... You bill them for the second month.... You lose one month's revenue.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks
1 reply

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max5ty

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Pusateri,

If you are just looking at cost.... It is small if it is mostly or all automated.... But, there is always some additional cost for each member.... Some members need lots of hand holding.... You must figure that in....

The problem is...... You sell them a membership for a penny.... Then, you need to convert them again to pay the full amount....

Let's say we are charging $60 per month when they "really" pay us...

I see it a huge hurdle to convince someone the "value" went from a penny to $600 per month... Instead, it is much easier to convince them your $14 two week trial has a $600 per month "value."

I have charged a "appropriate percentage".... "New" revenue is slightly more..... Average lifetime customer value skyrockets... The amount of "time wasters" was cut down dramatically.

Oh, reciprocity...... It is a wonderful theory...... The problem is in the "real world" there is little reciprocity..... Now, dealing with hundreds of thousands or millions of people on the Internet, it may begin to "kick in."

What I have personally witnessed myself and in my clients' businesses is the large majority of people will take what they can get free or cheaply... and they have no intention of ever paying full price.

Even after you have demonstrated awesome value, many will still focus on price... Human nature again....

I know you'll go back to "value".....

I have worked with these people personally.... They want to build their businesses.... They were providing awesome value... The theory of reciprocity rarely kicked in...

Myself, I love offering a Money Back Guarantee if it is on an electronic information product that has almost zero added cost for each new customer....

I don't like offering a Money Back Guarantee for a product that has a substantial added cost for each new customer.... For an established business, they know over time how the numbers will work out... But, a new business can be crippled by this cost...

You wrote...

I think they are vastly different....

A 30 day money-back guarantee means they have paid full price and you have their first month's payment on day one... and you rebill for the second month....

A 30 day free trial..... You get nothing on day one... You bill them for the second month.... You lose one month's revenue.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

You obviously don't have the slightest clue when it comes to marketing.

Pusateri is right.

You're an idiot.

Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck 11 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty

You obviously don't have the slightest clue when it comes to marketing.

Pusateri is right.

You're an idiot.

max5ty,

Interesting..... You think you are smart and know about Marketing....

Let me give you a quick tip...

When attempting to enter an intellectual debate, you want to counter the points made..... to demonstrate your intelligence. Insults make you look.... not intelligent. Just an FYI.

Have a great day!

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
- Thanks
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Alpha123

11 years ago

I see you different points of view and can understand both sides.
So how about...

a trial for a week and then that after that two monthly payments of £49 unless they cancel.

A penny does sound cheap
A £1 for your first week and then only 2 x payments of £49 (Its a 3 month product)

That way, they get a chance to test it out and only if they cancel would they not pay the rest.

Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alpha123

I see you different points of view and can understand both sides.

Alpha123,

My reason for posting here was to get you to think about your options and hopefully be as successful as possible.

Whatever you do, don't listen to any theories.... Test and see what makes the most money for you in your market.

I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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BudaBrit

11 years ago

As soon as you end your messages like you do, I ignore the rest. Pusateri has made the best points here and he presents his points, always, in a simple, clear way that makes people feel intelligent.

The more you massage your audiences ego, the more they're going to like you and the more they're going to buy. Being pompous doesn't get you any customers. You don't know what max does, no more than I do.

For as long as I've been hanging around this room, it's been insulting, it's been harsh and it's gained results. For some reason the new year has bought the worms out of the woodwork...

Thanks
1 reply

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by BudaBrit

As soon as you end your messages like you do, I ignore the rest. Pusateri has made the best points here and he presents his points, always, in a simple, clear way that makes people feel intelligent.

The more you massage your audiences ego, the more they're going to like you and the more they're going to buy. Being pompous doesn't get you any customers. You don't know what max does, no more than I do.

For as long as I've been hanging around this room, it's been insulting, it's been harsh and it's gained results. For some reason the new year has bought the worms out of the woodwork...

BudaBrit,

No doubt. Pusateri has made thoughtful and time consuming posts....

You think they are the "best points." I understand.

Until we have hard test data, Pusateri's "best points" are opinions on how to make the most revenue.... They are just like mine. No better... No worse... Simply untested opinions.

In fact, Pusateri's pricing may make the most revenue in one market... and flop in another. The same with mine.

The only way to tell is to test that specific market. Potential customers in their 20's looking to "make money online" will respond differently than older women interested in Quilting.

As for Max or whoever is hiding behind max5ty, I have no clue as to what he does... What I do know is he has no idea how to debate intellectually or tactfully. You can "attack" the idea.... You cannot "attack" the person...

There is a huge difference between...

a seemingly harsh, honest and constructive post meant to help...

and a personal insult... max5ty chose the latter.

You obviously find personal insults acceptable. I do not.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks

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Greg guitar

11 years ago

Can't we all just get along?

Thanks

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What strategy do you think would be best? Total/monthly/trial?

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