What would you call writers with no formal copywriting experience calling themselves "copywriters?"

I don't have formal training or mentoring in copywriting but I occasionally call myself a copywriter. So what?

U don't need a degree to call yourself a copy writer...

Their title has no bearing on my experience or my business, so no I'm not particularly bothered. I'm saddened if someone feels suckered by copywriters, but that's everyone who's ever bought anything from anyone in any industry these days. If I'm going to have to work extra hard to convince them I'm not a rip off, I really am inclined to skip the project and save myself the hassle.

Who said you need "formal training" or "mentoring" before you call yourself a copywriter? In fact you're probably better off flogging Happy Meals at McDonalds or cleaning car windows at traffic lights or going door to door with a bunch of "magic brushes" to get a good understanding of hooman beans and the psychology of selling.

If a person is persuasive enough with his words (and savvy enough with his marketing) to get clients, he can legitimately call himself a copywriter.

Alex

I think being perceived as a copywriter is more about the portfolio that you show prospective clients than a "degree" which by itself says nothing about the caliber of your writing.

That's something that attracts me to copywriting--quite frankly, for good or for bad, you'll be judged by the caliber of your writing more than anything else.

I'm unsure how someone would get "suckered in" by someone like that. If they do the proper research, they should be able to have an idea of how well the copywriter writes.

I have been asked to "fix the mess" a number of times but it's usually because someone thought buying articles for $1 was a great deal--and they want me to "rewrite them" for a reduced fee.

I'd be more leery about doctors that didn't have formal training calling themselves surgeons.

I don't really care what anyone calls themselves. In our world, it is the client's responsibility to properly vet people they hire.

That said, there are a lot of copywriter posers.

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This is 2.5 projects per day 365 days a year and that STILL comes a little under 1k mark . You are a busy man

Is there any real proven trusted numbers on this ?

Being concerned about what someone calls themselves (when they're not paying you for your advice) is about you, not them.

Hack writers and cheapskate clients deserve one another.

Brian

All my business cards say is, "Mark Pescetti - Orgasmic Therapist."

So...

I call myself an email copywriter. I do not have credited college course training, but I have had training.

The only thing you need to do is to do it.

- Alex

I don't have a formal education in copywriting and I don't have a mentor. I started my copywriting business without even knowing about the industry.

Fast forward 8 months now, I have a team of 3 copywriters and 1 designer. We wrote copy mainly for website and print ads for local businesses.

The key here is just go out and do it.

Most of the information based skills in the 21st century are not as formal as the "old" skills. For example, you can't be a surgeon in an hospital without the accreditation. But you can be a SEO expert, copywriting expert, ghostwriting expert, etc without any formal education.

It is just the difference between regulated and not regulated fields. Maybe one day you'll need to follow the copywriting academy in order to work in this field. However, in 2013 and I guess that for at least one more decade, you don't.

You don't need a degree for alot of online stuff, just like you don't need one to call yourself a web designer.

Formal education is for douches, especially in IM. Skill is what matters.

Hi All,

This is an interesting discussion.

FYI: I know clients are impressed with portfolios of proven sales letters and rock-solid conversion stats.

Many clients will only hire you if you can show them proof your copy sells well in their target market, (and you can show examples of your sales letters selling right now) with consistent conversion rates.

If you possess certificates from attending and completing copywriting training, this gives added proof as to your professional copywriting status, and will make clients feel safer hiring you.

You will find you can claim higher fees when you have attended and sucessfully completed copywriting courses.

You can ask for a higher fee if you can prove you can deliver copy that converts well -- but you need the conversion stats of the copy you write.

One thing to do, is always stay in the loop after the copy is delivered in order to offer to do split tests (split headlines, lead in, close, P.S. etc.).

You can offer copy edits to help improve conversions and offer to assist with split testing. Then be sure to get conversion rate data on the copy you write for your conversion portfolio.

If you can't find clients to hire you then sell your own products to secure proof of sales and conversion rates.

Just my 2 cents and what my higher end clients usually want to see before they will hire me and pay my higher rates.

Good luck to all with your copywriting,

Jennie Heckel
Sales Letter Copywriter

There's a lot to be said for natural talent plus practice and failure. Hopefully that talent doesn't get "schooled" out of people by low-risk, low-reward template theories pushed by academics who have never really had to write for a living.

The training for copywriting is all over the place. If an individual wants to self-educate all the way up the ladder of success, it's up to that person. Time will be the witness, the judge. And, ultimately, the self-named "copywriter" will be the one who knows whether or not that description is or is not the truth. (maybe)

No. But I've seen plenty of people fall for "copywriters" who DO have formal training but who can't sell a condom to a street hooker.

I would not think about it at all. There are 1,001 more important things to think about.

Reading this thread makes me feel at home. Thanks for starting the fight - i mean thread.

I've been studying and doing some copywriting for a couple of years now but I can't really call myself a copywriter. When you have the maybe once I'm able to write a copy that sells in my sleep that's when I'll be able to call myself a copywriter.

In my experience most copywriters are only good at selling themselves and total s**t at selling anything else, regardless of the bold claims.

There are some good ones around, but you still have to make sure your product is something people actually want and you have to be able to get your message in front of the right people.

Being a copywriter means being able to write a copy that persuades a prospect/customer to take a specific action.

That's it!

Cheers,

Gary

I feel the old school tradition of Copy Writing is dead, unless you are SUPER good!

In our world of today it is too easy to go out and do some deep research on your competitors material.

This will allow almost anyone with decent English to create a marketing piece, and thus call them self a Copy Writer.

For those that say "it is down to the customer" to ensure they do the correct research on their Copy Writer, shows pretty bad ethics as too you as a person, as this clearly states you would take any ones Money, which is pretty sad.

No matter what you do in Business you will not like to do certain parts, it may be Copy Writing for some, while others it maybe getting traffic.

If you read a few books on the emotions of customers such as their desires, fears etc and add that to the research element above that should put you in good stead, to getting better video, or text copy done for your business, or at least know how to identify you are getting the right person to do the job.

I have seen many stories of top marketers paying tens of thousands of dollars to copy writers, while when they split test their normal copy compared to the professional copywriters the marketers one almost always win.

What I am trying to say here is if you are NOT confident about a subject, or do NOT feel you can add value in that market please refrain from offering your services.

Here is a book I found helped me understand customers mindsets and allows me to create better copy:

"Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion"- by Robert Cialdini


Hope this Helps