Freelancer.com

Go Back   Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Copywriting
Register Blogs Social Groups CalendarHelp Desk

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 20th June 2013, 01:56 PM   #1
Warrior Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Lightbulb GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quoting Eugene Schwartz now...

Quote:
I specialize in "ugly." Iím the lousiest layout man in the world. I do ugly layouts. Why do I do ugly layouts? Because beauty looks much the same. It has a very narrow definition. Ugliness is randomness, which means that itís spread out. So there are a hundred different ways to be ugly and only two or three ways to be beautiful. So, the ugly thing in a world of beauty stands out. Estee Lauder discovered that. Twenty years ago, when Revlon was just knocking them dead with this four-color printing and then everybody else came in, Helena Rubenstein, etc., Estee herself said, "Well, if we run four-color, weíre gonna look like everybody else. Nobodyís going to be able to tell us. How about sepia?" And she got a series of sepia ads that were stunningly beautiful but completely different. And when you open the magazines there, wham! There is Lauder...
I believe Eugene Schwartz said above more than 25 years ago...

My question for you:

In the year 2013... does UGLY still sell?

What about with web landing pages? Video sales lettetrs? Videos?

"The ugly thing in a world of beauty stands out" - does this still apply in our Internet age?

ryanmcgee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20th June 2013, 03:11 PM   #2
The Idea Fairy
War Room Member
 
Tinkerbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 1,014
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 272
Thanked 410 Times in 104 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Yep. I have a "butt ugly" website that does, indeed, sell things. While I can't speak for everyone else, for me, it "still sells".

Tinkerbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20th June 2013, 03:42 PM   #3
Warrior Member
Registered Member
 
Join Date: 2013
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

I would say the key point is to make your ads "disruptive." Which often means ugly, but not always.

An ugly ad in a print magazine will stand out because in a swarm of pretty print ads, ugly is disruptive.

The reason the white-board sales videos are working now is because it's disruptive -- not because they are ugly.
directmaildude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20th June 2013, 05:07 PM   #4
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 780
Thanks: 342
Thanked 132 Times in 111 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Ugly can sometimes achieve a desired result more than beautiful.

When I first started out in SEO I was using Adsense on the very first website that I had hand-coded while learning html.

In retrospect, the website was horendously ugly. But at the time, it got around a 7% CTR with the Adsense ads on it.

Why so high? Probably because the page was so ugly that people wanted to leave it immediately by clicking the ads.

Then I paid for a "professional" template that looked much nicer, but my CTR dropped from 7% to like 1.5% overnight.

Since then, I have done more optimization and gotten closer to 4% CTR with my own custom ad layouts and templates. But still, it's not as high as my old butt-ugly layout had gotten.
Curtis2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 10:25 AM   #5
Digital Marketing Guy
War Room Member
 
DustonMcGroarty's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 446
Thanks: 52
Thanked 1,151 Times in 82 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

In this forum for sure, we know the right message to the right person is all you really need. Doesn't matter if the color of background is lime green or electric blue. If the offer is compelling enough, you're golden.

My Dad's site is 14 years old now and hasn't been changed since the day he started it. It's not pretty but it pays the bills and some.

DustonMcGroarty is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 10:28 AM   #6
Veteran Copywriter
War Room Member
 
Raydal's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2003
Location: Sarasota, FL, USA.
Posts: 4,532
Thanks: 319
Thanked 2,117 Times in 1,049 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

It's not a matter that "ugly sells" but the DIFFERENT stands out
and the first step in selling (AIDA) is attention. It's the purple cow
principle.

-Ray Edwards

Raydal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 11:34 AM   #7
Join the HELP Revolution
War Room Member
 
Mark Pescetti's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Where my nose takes me
Posts: 1,812
Thanks: 1,429
Thanked 1,636 Times in 842 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100k View Post
Does butt ugly get laid? No.

Of course there are exceptions...
Hey, it worked for me buddy!

"Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." Abraham Lincoln
Mark Pescetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 01:41 PM   #8
Advanced Warrior
 
Mr. Subtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: not too far from Intercourse, Blue Ball & Paradise, PA
Posts: 657
Thanks: 2
Thanked 962 Times in 322 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmcgee View Post
Quoting Eugene Schwartz now...

...

I believe Eugene Schwartz said above more than 25 years ago...

My question for you:

In the year 2013... does UGLY still sell?
Define "ugly."

Eugene Schwartz PIKED "ugly" as being his advertorial-like ads. They weren't "ugly" ... just different from all the other ads in the magazine.

If your definition of "ugly" is an advertorial-like ad, then YES "ugly" sells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DustonMcGroarty View Post
My Dad's site is 14 years old now and hasn't been changed since the day he started it. It's not pretty but it pays the bills and some.
This is the saddest comment I've read here in a long time... not testing anything on a web page in 14 years. And the sadder part is that you haven't convinced your dad to ABT or at least every now and then.

Mr. Subtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 02:20 PM   #9
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
mpluto's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 129
Thanks: 57
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

I have what some would say "ugly", one page website and it had conversions of 15%, now dropped to like 13%. It gets low traffic though.

My other semi-ugly site gets about 700 visits a month in general and makes around $20,000/annually on autopilot.

Those are just two of my "ugliest" websites.
mpluto is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 03:20 PM   #10
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 780
Thanks: 342
Thanked 132 Times in 111 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpluto View Post
I have what some would say "ugly", one page website and it had conversions of 15%, now dropped to like 13%. It gets low traffic though.

My other semi-ugly site gets about 700 visits a month in general and makes around $20,000/annually on autopilot.

Those are just two of my "ugliest" websites.


What kind of niche makes $20k a year off 700 visits a month?
Curtis2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21st June 2013, 05:00 PM   #11
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
mpluto's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 129
Thanks: 57
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post


What kind of niche makes $20k a year off 700 visits a month?
Specialized technology equipment sales. If people search for them, they are pretty much ready to buy.
mpluto is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd June 2013, 03:12 PM   #12
Mr. Metaphor
War Room Member
 
sethczerepak's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,518
Thanks: 540
Thanked 721 Times in 441 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Depends on what you mean by "butt ugly." Simple designs can still sell very well if the message is good, but not unprofessional ones. I've seen some damn attractive pages with lame copy that didn't sell a lick too. The message is always going to be the most important thing.

sethczerepak is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23rd June 2013, 04:54 PM   #13
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 559
Thanks: 530
Thanked 386 Times in 233 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

The distinction in this line of thinking is don't confuse "cheap" with "ugly." Two very different animals.
David Maschke is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24th June 2013, 09:36 PM   #14
Education Breeds Success.
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 205
Thanks: 6
Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

The only place that "Butt ugly" doesn't sell is the strip club.

EXPLODE Your Sales! The PREMIER Copywriting Service on WF<PM ME!
^^GUARANTEED 100% to INCREASE YOUR PROFIT ^^
derricks4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25th June 2013, 01:11 AM   #15
Senior Warrior Member
War Room Member
 
Dennis Gaskill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA.
Posts: 4,883
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 4,636
Thanked 7,191 Times in 3,768 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Ugly, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Dennis Gaskill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2nd July 2013, 06:47 PM   #16
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Jennie Heckel's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 171
Thanks: 210
Thanked 175 Times in 102 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Hi All,

My 2 cents.

I always suggest clients split test a PLAIN JANE PAGE = i.e. with no header and just plain text on white with navy blue subheads and no photos and just product images versus a more high end site with fancy graphics.

Why?

Because depending on the niche, the visitor, the offer and the price point - a less fancy design will sell BETTER in some cases.

I see a lot of sites and sales letters which are way over done, and take too long to load and with a 65+ bounce rate wonder "why don't I have sales?"

That's a no brainer to me.

The attention span of a visitor these days is getting shorter and shorter.

So before you spend that wad of time and money on a super fancy high end design at will be sure to load super slow (unless you spend the money to host it and upload all the graphics and video to Amazon3)... you might want to rethink that.

I am finding higher conversion rates with simplified banners and with what I would call a "more article style" copy in some niches.

And you have to TEST to know.

Good luck to all!

Jennie Heckel
Sales Letter Copywriter

*****27 "WSO OF THE DAY" COPYWRITER IN 2012 - 2013 - 2014 ***** SALES COPY HAS SOLD OVER $2,675,000.00 - HIGHEST CONVERTING WSOS INCLUDE: MOBI INSTA-PORTFOLIO *MOBI NICHE RAIDER * MOBI CASH CYCLONE + 24 OTHER "WSO OF THE DAY" WSOS * WSO and FSO Copy That SELLS! With 16 Years of Proven Copywriting Experience. Skype: seoexpertconsulting Website: http://www.saleslettercopywriter.com


Last edited by Jennie Heckel; 2nd July 2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: added text
Jennie Heckel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2nd July 2013, 08:39 PM   #17
Hyperactive Copywriter
 
Jarvis Edwards's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Inland Empire, Southern California
Posts: 132
Thanks: 11
Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Perhaps in the days of eye-candy graphics and neck-turning, glittery sales pages,
UGLY really stands out.

A visitor on an ugly site may as well be thinking: "wow, this is a pretty ugly website...they better have something incredible to get away with this nonsense..this site looks terrible..Let me check this out for a bit and see what their talking about...."

Imagine a visitor on a site with the same content/product but a "fancy" design/layout:
"there's nothing special about this website.,,,,


Maybe some websites, though ugly, appeal to a certain visitor for reasons based on their unique personalities, mood, etc. While other sites appeal to a person's eye and a decision to stay/buy/signup is dependent on aesthetics more than anything else.

Jarvis Edwards - Freelance Copywriter


Jarvis Edwards is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3rd July 2013, 12:07 AM   #18
Automated Referrals! :D
Registered Member
 
ReferralCandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Location: 3rd planet from the Sun
Posts: 371
Thanks: 182
Thanked 74 Times in 65 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Two of my favourite sites are Ling's Cars and UNDZ.org, both of them "ugly" as heck but still pretty damn awesome. Also see Nassim Taleb's fooledbyrandomness.com and of course, Maddox's The Best Page In The Universe.

Enjoy.

Increase eCommerce sales with ReferralCandy.
Focus on building great stuff. We'll handle your referral marketing.
ReferralCandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3rd July 2013, 09:25 AM   #19
Mimeograph Sniffer
War Room Member
 
Jeremey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2012
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 366
Thanks: 251
Thanked 171 Times in 107 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Doesn't it boil down to your market?

Would you sell a photography marketing planner to a bunch of photographers on an "ugly" site?

I do think there needs to be a distinction between "ugly" and "poorly designed." An "ugly" site that is well designed is still going to be more effective than a poorly designed ugly site ... designed for conversion, that is ... Flow, ease of use, understanding of what you want prospects to do on your page ... those are all elements of a design optimized for conversion.

Bottom line is - know your audience, and make it easy for them to buy.

Jeremey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5th July 2013, 11:31 AM   #20
Copywriter
War Room Member
 
Andy The Copywriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Posts: 623
Thanks: 74
Thanked 142 Times in 93 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Yeah, the principle of what he's saying is correct, but the thing is, in the world of internet marketing, where 90% of the sales letters are ugly as ****, the beautiful is going to stand out more. This isn't prime time television advertising. I mean look at these samples from the WSO forum:

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ior-forum.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-warriors.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...orth-98-a.html

Do you think ugly design will make you stand out against these internet Picassos?

Hardly!

Internet marketing design in general tends to suffer from an extreme lack of imagination. To stand out, you need to do something different, and in this community, "ugly" is not different.

Andy The Copywriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5th July 2013, 12:03 PM   #21
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2013
Posts: 35
Thanks: 5
Thanked 38 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

It depends on what you define selling as.
If you define selling as does it catch attention, then the answer is yes.
Ugly will almost always catch attention. It's then up to the copy to keep that attention and convert it into a buying mindset.

So in a sense ugly could end up selling very well
JustinDT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5th July 2013, 02:09 PM   #22
Dynamic SEO
War Room Member
 
yukon's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Posts: 14,464
Blog Entries: 7
Thanks: 1,424
Thanked 5,930 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

I think a lot of people confuse ugly with simplicity, usually it's the simplicity of a page that's leading traffic down the sales path.



- yukon -


yukon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5th July 2013, 03:57 PM   #23
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
mrdomains's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 564
Thanks: 199
Thanked 133 Times in 102 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Sure it works - as long as you hit the right demographic with it.

Ugly (as in simplified, garish, loud, tacky, etc) works extremely well with certain social groups.

Free action plan : Think less. Do more.
mrdomains is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10th July 2013, 02:47 PM   #24
Digital Product Retailer
 
marc@clickbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Posts: 53
Thanks: 23
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

It's not a question of "ugly vs. beautiful" so much as "slick vs. earnest" or "phony vs. genuine". It just so happens that ugly conveys "earnest and genuine" more often than a beautiful, highly-sophisticated website that has had every detail fussed over for weeks.

An ugly, amateur-looking website only works with certain people. Know your market!

http://www.clickbitz.com - buy and sell ebooks, music, games, apps, audiobooks, and more!
marc@clickbitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13th July 2013, 08:31 AM   #25
Warrior Member
 
Wadud Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Location: I live in Qatar at the moment.
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Not sure if people care so much about ugly or pretty when it comes down to getting the best info. I think I get past the way a page looks once I've read the first paragraph of the sales page.

If the information seems genuine, I may give it a try. On the other hand, if it's the most attractive page around and the content sucks... I'll go for ugly every time!

That's my 2 cents
Wadud
Wadud Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13th July 2013, 08:31 AM   #26
Fingers of Fury
War Room Member
 
BrianMcLeod's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2005
Location: Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA.
Posts: 2,920
Blog Entries: 5
Thanks: 2,386
Thanked 2,898 Times in 1,187 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post
Ugly, like beauty, is in the eye of the beerholder.
Fixed that for ya.

BrianMcLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14th July 2013, 06:47 PM   #27
Custom Website Design
 
website design's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: International website design
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 36 Times in 26 Posts
Default Re: GRAPHIC DESIGN QUESTION: Does butt UGLY sell?

Depends on target market, stage of sales process and industry - if the customer is browsing and somehow gets on a weight loss site then ugly works - if the customer is a ceo looking to purchase professional services then ugly doesn't work as well - either way it's all about grabbing attention and that has more to do with your unique selling position and headline more than anything else.

website design is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace > The Warrior Forum > Copywriting

Bookmarks

Tags
butt, design, graphic, question, sell, ugly

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:22 AM.