What's going on here?

12 replies
I have been in contact with a few copywriters regarding receiving help around here. When I share my e-mail, I tend to get sales copy style e-mails that focus on price / value. Some have endeavored to identify the problem I am looking to solve, and then solution, others have not...

It's actually disconcerting... Especially when you see folks you revere offering you consulting at bargain basement prices.

It got me to thinking... "Do copywriters really know their worth?" To be able to persuade people is power. Why sell that power cheap?

I am on the prowl for talent to help me craft words so as to completely disrupt a vertical, where things like sales copy, funnels, testing, etc. are all "after thoughts."

I need words crafted for voice blast campaigns, e-mail autoresponders, and follow up, print advertising, video, etc...

I was looking for partners - paid partners, not just folks "in between copywriting jobs" looking to make a fast buck...

So, as I am taking the wrong approach in e-mailing people whose work I admire? Or should I be posting in Warriors for Hire?

What are your thoughts?
#worth
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    It's actually disconcerting... Especially when you see folks you revere offering you consulting at bargain basement prices.

    It got me to thinking... "Do copywriters really know their worth?" To be able to persuade people is power. Why sell that power cheap? ...

    So, as I am taking the wrong approach in e-mailing people whose work I admire? Or should I be posting in Warriors for Hire?

    What are your thoughts?
    So what is the problem? You are getting quotes that are too low
    or you are looking for a profit-share arrangement that they are
    not agreeing to? I'm not sure I understand.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8455643].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      So what is the problem? You are getting quotes that are too low
      or you are looking for a profit-share arrangement that they are
      not agreeing to? I'm not sure I understand.

      -Ray Edwards
      Ray,

      No one works for free. While I am a lead generator under a revenue share arrangement - my partners are paid up front so that I can eat most of the cake. In fact I pivoted to rev share vs a five figure monthly fee because my income increases 8.5x.

      My specific frustrations were this WSO style copy I received to my inbox. Then rather to learn about the problem, I get these "discount offers" and "bonus offers."

      Finally, a $99 consultation is of zero value to me. I need partners who "get it" - who ARE PAID UPFRONT, whom I can trust to execute. I have zero bandwidth to even wipe myself these days - so I'm delegating like a maniac.

      I wanted to start with three little sets of copy and scale the relationship across ALL of my activites.

      There is this beautiful ATM I created - whose value is derived of the copy I write, or have written.
      Signature
      FILL IN THE BLANKS!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8455784].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        Ray,

        My specific frustrations were this WSO style copy I received to my inbox. Then rather to learn about the problem, I get these "discount offers" and "bonus offers."
        The copywriters directory here may be helpful.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...directory.html

        But I sense that you are saying that if the copywriters were really
        serious then they wouldn't be charging so low--and you're right.
        (Except it's a "special".)

        Well now you have voiced your frustration your PM box will
        need emptying soon.

        Good luck in your search.

        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8455880].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    I don't know the specifics... but like Ray said, maybe the job description wasn't clearly spelled out? Maybe there was some confusion as to what you were looking for, I don't know?

    Normally, when you can nail down as many specifics of a project as possible, you'll get better and more informed bids. But then again, maybe you did that.

    I know that most copywriters who are worth their fees... when it comes to something like this, you'd probably be looking at more of a retainer deal than a flat fee. That's just me, most clients I work with who want more than just a few things done, it's on retainer.

    And also like Ray said, are you looking for more of a "pay for performance" deal where the writer takes money from the sales... and they don't get much up front"

    Those types of deals a lot of copywriters won't do, because it's too easy to get taken for a ride. Not only that, but why do "pay for performance" deals with clients when it's just easier for good copywriters to write for their own stuff...and keep 100% of the profits.

    But again, it could be that the details weren't clearly explained, although it sounds like you did.

    But I do like your philosophy of going after people you like/admire... because that would probably get you further than putting an ad on the Warrior for hire and having to weed through a ton of responses... and many probably from less than qualified writers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8455781].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan Ferrari
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      It's too easy to get taken for a ride.
      This is part of the issue with JVs or pay-for-performance arrangements, but in my experience its not just from dishonesty, but from other business issues too.

      Now, of course dishonest partnerships do happen - I have a client who did a 2 week campaign with a team of others (before we started working together). His cut was supposed to be nearly $100k but he never saw a penny. That's pretty sad.

      But on the other hand, I recently wrote some stuff for another client on a performance basis and although he has been great, the owners of the list that the emails are supposed to go out on have just been flitting around for the last several weeks. That's frustrating, especially since this client has been such a nice guy to work with. But as of right now, we are both out and its kind of out of our control.

      And the list owners aren't making any money either since my emails never went out. They didn't pull a fast one on us or anything like that. They have just had their thumbs up their butts or their attention elsewhere...distracted by other stuff, or putting out fires, or taking a summer vacation...who knows?

      Finally, right now, I am in the midst of writing a new sales letter for a new client on a performance basis. He has a very established and reliable business that executes like clockwork.

      He was an open book...he showed me traffic data, he gave me details on his list and its click through (which is how the traffic will be arriving), he gave me conversions on the existing page, and offered me any materials or assistance I would need.

      Further, his entire business is also built on integrity and trust which put me at ease.

      AND the terms will be very lucrative as long as my copy performs.

      I suppose that's the point I am trying to make... "as long as my copy performs" ...

      From the writer's perspective, there needs to be a fair amount of assurance that if they write great copy the rewards will be there - and that some other variable (lack of good execution, loss of traffic, dishonestly by the partner, etc...), is not going to give them a big fat $0 even if they hit the copy out of the park.

      Now, obviously, this is business and there's always risk. But as my examples hopefully demonstrate, if the client can show that those risks are at acceptable levels while offering good compensation, any copywriter who is confident in his skills should be interested in coming on board.

      That being said, if you have a good grasp of where those risks lie, I am confident in my skills and would be willing to hear more via PM.

      Cheers!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8459731].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    A lot of copywriters don't know their own value.

    Or...

    They're portraying a facade that isn't true - when in reality, they're desperate for work.

    Who knows.

    Here are a few insights on why a copywriter would low-ball a quote:

    "If I can get my foot in the door and demonstrate my worth, make the client a little money, they'll hire me again for my normal rates."

    "Hmmm... This guy needs help. I'll just shoot him off a low quote - so he can get that little boost he needs to take his business to the next level. At least I'll leave him better off than how I found him."

    "Shit! Rents due. I need to get some frickin' clients ASAP!"

    The bottom line is...

    You never know what's going through a copywriter's (weird) mind.

    But as someone said above:

    I don't know what the specifics are.

    Was there a lack of effective communication?

    That's where I always begin.

    The more specific you are on what a job is and what you expect to get from your investment, the more information a copywriter can noodle with to give you a proper quote.

    Mark
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8456131].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    I have been in contact with a few copywriters regarding receiving help around here. When I share my e-mail, I tend to get sales copy style e-mails that focus on price / value. Some have endeavored to identify the problem I am looking to solve, and then solution, others have not...

    It's actually disconcerting... Especially when you see folks you revere offering you consulting at bargain basement prices.

    It got me to thinking... "Do copywriters really know their worth?" To be able to persuade people is power. Why sell that power cheap?

    I am on the prowl for talent to help me craft words so as to completely disrupt a vertical, where things like sales copy, funnels, testing, etc. are all "after thoughts."

    I need words crafted for voice blast campaigns, e-mail autoresponders, and follow up, print advertising, video, etc...

    I was looking for partners - paid partners, not just folks "in between copywriting jobs" looking to make a fast buck...

    So, as I am taking the wrong approach in e-mailing people whose work I admire? Or should I be posting in Warriors for Hire?

    What are your thoughts?
    It really depends on who you're talking to.

    Some copywriters haven't gotten a firm grasp on the value they can offer to a business. Some copywriters lack the confidence to charge what they should based on the skills they bring to the table. Some copywriters just want a single project per client -- a "date" if you will before they commit to a "marriage" style ongoing business arrangement.

    A number of my clients over the years have started with a single project and then their business needs dictated that we transition to an ongoing working arrangement. A select few were clear from the start that they needed far more help than a single project so we structured a win-win deal accordingly.

    The bottom line is, if you're clear from the get-go what you're looking for then it's a lot easier to find the type of silent partner you may be looking for. And it will probably take you reaching out to the type of person you want to connect with to start the conversation.

    Hope that helps,

    Mike
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8456203].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    BigBee... if you're serious (and understand true value when you see it), contact me next week and we'll talk. I promise you I know what I'm worth, I never undersell my services, and I really GET it.

    Signature
    The Montello Group
    Copywriting|Publishing|Training
    Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

    Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
    CLICK HERE!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8458720].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

      BigBee... if you're serious (and understand true value when you see it), contact me next week and we'll talk. I promise you I know what I'm worth, I never undersell my services, and I really GET it.

      Ha! I just got a woody.
      Signature

      Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8458983].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Disrupting a vertical can get pricey. Oh, media
    spend you know. Willing talent isn't all that's
    required. Seems to me you're running a game
    to get somebody really good in a deal that shifts
    the risk to the writer (partner, if you prefer).
    That's fine, but it's a signal that the money for
    media buys may be in question.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8460325].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      The Big Bee, if people, who like me, have read your
      posts on the Offline section, then they will see lots of different big ideas
      and no focus.

      This leads me to believe you don't have anything
      of value for a copywriter.

      Best,
      Ewen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8460354].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        And now you publicly say you can't afford my fee.

        Makes me wonder why you have wrote this thread.

        Best,
        Ewen
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8476819].message }}

Trending Topics