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Is it time to reconsider your copywriting career?

by max5ty
43 replies
Do you really believe a sales letter can make you a millionaire? Is it just a mantra you heard from a guru and you use it to motivate yourself?

Do you drive the car of your dreams? Bentley, Rolls Royce?

Is your house like a castle...long drive, 7 car garage, 5 bathrooms, home theater, indoor pool?

If you wanted to fly halfway around the world for dinner tonight, could you afford it, or have the means to get there?

Have you heard of Yves Saint Laurent, Pierre Cardin, Tom Ford, Christian Dior, Donatella Versace, Calvin Klein, Giorgio Armani, Donna Karan, Coco Chanel?

If not, why not?

Are you a dellusional idiot chasing a dream?

Some of you aren't ready to be copywriters yet. Until...

you realize you hold the keys to be all you ever dreamed of being. Until you realize you posses the power to change not only your life, but the lives of others.

The power you have is a great thing.

By the end of the year you could have everything I mentioned and more.

But here's the rub...

you've got to start.

You don't need a single client. You can find a product and sell the heck out of it. Yep, I've said it before...some of you still haven't caught on.

Here's a simple test...I dare you to honestly take it!

Here goes...

Step 1: Raise your hand as high as you can.

Step 2: Now raise it higher.

Step 3: Raise it even higher.

Step 4: Go as high as you can.

If you're still raising it by step 4, you obvously didn't go as high as you could with step 1 when I said raise your hand as high as you could. You needed some further motivation.

Become the person that goes all out on a project in step 1. Don't hold anything back.

Don't be the person that still needs some coaching in step 4 to go higher.

You make as much money as you're motivated to make.

Don't wait on others to hire you...hire yourself and become successful.

Rethink what being a copywriter is all about.

Rethink the possibilities.
#career #copywriting #reconsider #time
  • Profile picture of the author MatthewRHallEsq
    The raising your hand example is great. I'm definitely going to borrow that the next time I teach. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
    So true. There's literally no point to ever write for anyone else. Probably one of the worst business models ever.

    Create your own offers and/or promote stuff as an affiliate. The possibilities are infinite.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

      So true. There's literally no point to ever write for anyone else. Probably one of the worst business models ever.

      Create your own offers and/or promote stuff as an affiliate. The possibilities are infinite.
      Well I can think of about 10,000 reasons you wrote the Attraction Formula vsl.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

      So true. There's literally no point to ever write for anyone else. Probably one of the worst business models ever.

      Create your own offers and/or promote stuff as an affiliate. The possibilities are infinite.
      Rubbish.

      Some folks don't want to run a business that sells products.

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        Rubbish.

        Some folks don't want to run a business that sells products.

        Alex
        What the hell do you think you're doing as a freelance copywriter? Your copy IS a product that you are selling and as a freelance copywriter you are running a business that sells a product.

        I'll elaborate a bit more. The problem with writing copy for other people is that you're forever a slave to your next gig. Sure, you might get a massive check for a project, but then what? Time to look for another gig. And then again, and again...forever.

        No thanks.

        There's way more opportunity in using your salesmanship skills in creating your own offer that you have 100% control over, and can get paid over and over again for years to come. If you're creative and skilled enough to write a winning letter or vsl for [x] niche, you certainly have the ability to do it yourself and perhaps dominate that niche a la Chris Haddad.

        Don't want to create your own product? Ok. You need your head examined, but there is still another angle with unlimited scale. Promote products and offers as an affiliate. This opens up so many opportunities that you really couldn't ever fully explore a fraction of what's out there. The scale is enormous. You can spend days just browsing the offers available on CJ, shareasale, linkshare and so on.

        You can literally do the exact same thing you would a copy gig for someone else as an affiliate. Build a small site, set up your pitch page using something like optimize press, upload your VSL and have your add to cart button coded with your affiliate link. If you know how to buy traffic then you can send as much traffic as you want. Sky's the limit. I sometimes come across VSL's promoting testosterone supplements or penis enlargement pills and at the bottom it states that they are an affiliate. Very clever. I'm sure those guys are making some serious coin. This approach can be done in numerous verticals.

        Not enough? Build your own authority site and monetize with ads and selling adspace in addition to promoting offers as an affiliate. This angle opens up even another revenue angle which can be enormous if your traffic is huge -- ad revenue. Your copywriting skills will come into play in crafting compelling headlines and posts, and directing traffic in the general direction you want it to go. I'm working on this model myself.

        Need another example? Build a site like viralnova.com. That is 100% pure copywriting. The site is monetized through adsense and makes 6 figures a month. A smart copywriter can build something similar, do an even better job, and make a fortune. That type of site is very popular right now.

        Think outside the box dude. There's a big internet out there with lots of money to be made in ways that dwarf writing for other people and that give you a hell of a lot more control and freedom. max5ty is right. The smart guys are going to build something that gives consistent income month after month. Nothing worse than inconsistent income that you have little control over. But I guess to you all this is "rubbish."
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

          What the hell do you think you're doing as a freelance copywriter? Your copy IS a product that you are selling and as a freelance copywriter you are running a business that sells a product.
          No Sean, a freelance copywriter is a service provider, not a product seller.

          And being a service provider is a vastly different business than selling products.

          Your analysis is built on the faulty premise that it's all about making the most money you can. This may surprise you, but many people don't consider that their #1 driver.

          Enjoying what they do is more important.

          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post


          Think outside the box dude.
          Good grief... you're telling me how to think. What you're really saying is, think like you, and if I don't, I need my head examined.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            No Sean, a freelance copywriter is a service provider, not a product seller.

            And being a service provider is a vastly different business than selling products.
            Semantics. I hope you're smart enough to get my point.

            Your analysis is built on the faulty premise that it's all about making the most money you can. This may surprise you, but many people don't consider that their #1 driver.

            Enjoying what they do is more important.
            Says the guy who "shows you how to score $1,000 - $3,000 for each copy project" in his sig.

            Why aren't you selling on the benefits of "enjoying what you do" to your copy clients? Because you know that money is a primary motivator.

            At any rate, I'm just busting your balls a bit. I actually agree with you that it isn't all about making the most money you can. For me, money is up there but it's only because of what it can get me: freedom. It's really about creating and helping people. I believe that if what you do doesn't help people in some way, you shouldn't be doing it.

            A lot of copywriters get hung up on the ego boost of writing winning controls. They want the recognition, they want the adulation that comes with being a "known" copywriter. They want to be known as the next Gary Halbert or whatever. They want to be talked about. That's all ego stuff. Meanwhile, all they're really doing is making the product owners filthy rich.

            In my opinion, it's too little payoff for far too much work. Writing copy is a grueling process at times. Why in God's name would anyone want to invest so much blood sweat and tears into building someone else's business?

            I hope you realize that this is all just my opinion. I do know that a lot of copywriters just want to write for other people. They have their own reasons. I'm not saying that what they want is "wrong."

            Good grief... you're telling me how to think. What you're really saying is, think like you, and if I don't, I need my head examined.

            Alex
            I was speaking rhetorically. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
              Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post


              Says the guy who "shows you how to score $1,000 - $3,000 for each copy project" in his sig.

              Why aren't you selling on the benefits of "enjoying what you do" to your copy clients? Because you know that money is a primary motivator.
              It should be obvious... I'm appealing to a certain target group.

              That doesn't mean there aren't other target groups.

              Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post


              I hope you realize that this is all just my opinion. I do know that a lot of copywriters just want to write for other people. They have their own reasons. I'm not saying that what they want is "wrong."
              You previously stated they "should have their heads examined".

              Glad to hear you've modified your opinion.

              Alex
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              • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                I do hate to see a grown man cry.
                LOL

                And the thing is, when I started crying... I was eating soup.

                Ah, what the heck... it needed salt anyway.

                Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author splitTest
          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

          If you know how to buy traffic then you can send as much traffic as you want.
          Where do you learn to buy traffic?

          Do you mean Adwords?
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
            Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

            Where do you learn to buy traffic?

            Do you mean Adwords?
            Yup. Adwords, Bing, Facebook, direct ad buys, too many to list.

            I recommend Chad Hamzeh's Traffic Black Book program. It's simply awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @Sean Fry - Good post. You're full of great ideas.

    Was gonna title my post "Where Have All The Good Copywriters Gone?".

    The good ones end up selling their own products. They find it so lucrative they don't have time to write for others.

    With low cost ways to drive traffic...and an internet full of ideas, the limits of coming up with your own product don't exist anymore.

    You have copywriters trying to hawk their services on oDesk, business owners that want you to make them a fortune while paying you a few measly bucks...

    If you truly have copywriting skills, you can laugh in their face. Tell them to take their cheap idea of copywriters and shove it.

    Someone did a post asking what the biggest fears of someone wanting to hire a copywriter were...

    and as someone so rightly put it, all they want to know is if your copy makes them money.

    "Well yes Sir/Ma'am, I've made a few millions selling my own product".

    "Great, would $500 get me a good sales letter?".

    "Not in your wildest dreams, $45,000 would be a good starting point".

    Eventually you'll get tired of getting shoved around. If writing sales letters for others is still something you want to do...you'll be able to demand respect once you can do for you what you claim you can do for others.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Someone did a post asking what the biggest fears of someone wanting to hire a copywriter were...

      and as someone so rightly put it, all they want to know is if your copy makes them money.

      "Well yes Sir/Ma'am, I've made a few millions selling my own product".

      "Great, would $500 get me a good sales letter?".

      "Not in your wildest dreams, $45,000 would be a good starting point".
      And that "someone" was me. I've made plenty of people wealthy with my copy (and I'm sure others here have too)... and yet I still get chumps asking me if I'll write for peanuts. Funny thing is... now and again I feel sorry for people and do a "pro bono" or even a WSO (shudder) and guess what? They want to change the copy and/or sometimes don't even use it. Lesson? Cheapening the offer cheapens the perceived worth of the product (yes I know that's crap English).

      But having said that... if you're really a copywriter... you get a hell of a buzz out of writing copy for others. Especially if the product is interesting. You can't beat that feeling of taking a guy from the sh!thouse to the penthouse. Work isn't all about money you know.
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      • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        But having said that... if you're really a copywriter... you get a hell of a buzz out of writing copy for others. Especially if the product is interesting. You can't beat that feeling of taking a guy from the sh!thouse to the penthouse. Work isn't all about money you know.
        Bingo... right there is why I do it.

        Like Mal said... once you get to a certain point, it's not just about the money... it's the thrill of seeing a project go from just a thought... to making a lot of money.

        I personally think Alex and Sean are both right... and it's why a lot of folks, myself included... keep their hand in both.

        I know Harlan is another writer that does both very well.

        As someone who has started and run several successful online businesses... Alex is right in that often times, it can get overwhelming doing all the different aspects of an online biz.

        Of course, over the years, I got smarter and just outsourced and hired others... but that's another can of worms.

        So, Alex is right in that a lot of top copywriters don't want to run the entire gamut of product creator, marketer, traffic getter, etc...

        And yet Sean is right too, in that when you're a freelancer, often times you're a slave to the grind of always needing to land clients... until you're good enough where they start finding you.

        But even then, working with clients creates its own set of challenges.

        For me, it's about finding a balance... I'll create a product, launch it so it can basically run on autopilot, then take on some freelance clients, work with clients here locally at my agency, and just keep my hands in different projects.

        Having multiple streams of income helps, and so does always having something different to do. Keeps boredom at bay when you can pick and choose what you feel like doing each day.

        So, personally having lived both... I think Alex and Sean are both right... meaning there's no set "this way is the only best way"....
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          So, your copy can sell products/services, eh?

          You don't want to own a products business and get bogged down in the daily business activity required, right?

          You write for others and do it well, but you'd prefer not to keep finding new people to work with, right?

          Two names: Daymond John, Mark Freedman. And an alternative idea for you as a copywriter who can sell things with his words.

          Licensing.

          And control or Toll Position. Many watch Shark Tank and Daymond is known for his "licensing" strategy, it is his go-to thought on the products he sees, can it be licensed?

          Mark Freedman is the guy who brought you the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with over a Billion dollars in licensing fees so far.

          Mark didn't CREATE nor did he INVENT (that was done by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman). He....

          get ready for it...

          drum roll....

          ACQUIRED the rights to license the product.

          YOU, can simply acquire a product someone else has spent the time, money and energy to develop. You acquire the rights, you create a TOLL POSITION.

          Now here is the amazing secret part...YOU can write the copy, you can own the promotion, you can "own" the control of the product and you let someone else do all the marketing...let someone else do the daily grunt work of maintaining inventory, shipping, refunds, all the nasty old business stuff...

          YOU sell it with your amazing copy (or hire a few copywriters)...all you have is a piece of paper and RIGHTS, you control the product from the golf course, the beach, your yacht, your jet...even while sleeping in that 20' Shaq sized circular bed.

          But, please don't tell anyone, it is an amazing secret we want to keep to ourselves, fair enough?

          gjabiz
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          • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            So, your copy can sell products/services, eh?

            You don't want to own a products business and get bogged down in the daily business activity required, right?

            You write for others and do it well, but you'd prefer not to keep finding new people to work with, right?

            Two names: Daymond John, Mark Freedman. And an alternative idea for you as a copywriter who can sell things with his words.

            Licensing.

            And control or Toll Position. Many watch Shark Tank and Daymond is known for his "licensing" strategy, it is his go-to thought on the products he sees, can it be licensed?

            Mark Freedman is the guy who brought you the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with over a Billion dollars in licensing fees so far.

            Mark didn't CREATE nor did he INVENT (that was done by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman). He....

            get ready for it...

            drum roll....

            ACQUIRED the rights to license the product.

            YOU, can simply acquire a product someone else has spent the time, money and energy to develop. You acquire the rights, you create a TOLL POSITION.

            Now here is the amazing secret part...YOU can write the copy, you can own the promotion, you can "own" the control of the product and you let someone else do all the marketing...let someone else do the daily grunt work of maintaining inventory, shipping, refunds, all the nasty old business stuff...

            YOU sell it with your amazing copy (or hire a few copywriters)...all you have is a piece of paper and RIGHTS, you control the product from the golf course, the beach, your yacht, your jet...even while sleeping in that 20' Shaq sized circular bed.

            But, please don't tell anyone, it is an amazing secret we want to keep to ourselves, fair enough?

            gjabiz

            A great, and VERY in-depth book on licensing is Doug D'Anna's book 24 Hour Cash Flow Miracle. Got it in my book case and take that puppy out to read and apply at least once a month.
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            • Profile picture of the author 1fisherman
              Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

              A great, and VERY in-depth book on licensing is Doug D'Anna's book 24 Hour Cash Flow Miracle. Got it in my book case and take that puppy out to read and apply at least once a month.
              As I read gjabiz's post, I wondered if there was a book on licensing. The answer was right below. Found Doug D'Anna's book on Amazon for $1.10.

              Thanks Shawn.

              Gregg
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        if you're really a copywriter... you get a hell of a buzz out of writing copy for others.
        Precisely.

        However, it can become disenchanting with the day to day dealings with tiresome clients.


        Bill


        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    Don't wait on others to hire you...hire yourself and become successful.
    Yes!

    I've been dragging my feet on getting my new products out. It's embarrassing.

    Here's why...

    Every client project I take on makes me a better writer.

    Than a better writer again.

    By helping other people make money, I'm getting a paid-for education.

    I get to see the data that comes in and watch how campaigns are marketed. It's invaluable.

    Other thoughts...

    Can a single sales letter make you a millionaire?

    Yes! 100%.

    It's not a mantra.

    It's something that's within every copywriter's reach - if he or she is willing to take the hits.

    I started the opposite way...

    I created my own product, made lots of money... and thought, "If I can do this for myself, why not others?"

    But like I said...

    My entire copywriting career is built around the premise that I'll just keep getting better.

    I think most copywriters have that thinking - whether they'll admit or not.

    Mark

    P.S. Getting and staying rich requires multiple streams of passive income. This year, most than the past, I'm focusing on backend. So when I get out of this, I'll easily have 7 figures a month coming in - just from backend. So there are incentives to working with clients.

    P.P.S. Wasn't it you Marcus who recently put up a post looking to fund people with good product ideas? In a lot of ways, writing copy for people (with backend) is making an investment. Words instead of cash.
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  • Profile picture of the author darbok
    I'm a pretty good content writer which is somewhat like copy writing but the whole getting traffic part is what still eludes and frustrates me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by darbok View Post

      I'm a pretty good content writer which is somewhat like copy writing
      No it's not.


      .
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      • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
        From where I'm sitting there are 2 spinoffs from this whole writing business.
        1. Writing for others
        2. Writing for yourself
        I say do both but treat these two catagories as vertical markets.

        From each vertical market you will discover other catagories hidden in plain sight that you can write for or about.
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        • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

          From where I'm sitting there are 2 spinoffs from this whole writing business.
          1. Writing for others
          2. Writing for yourself
          I say do both but treat these two catagories as vertical markets.

          From each vertical market you will discover other catagories hidden in plain sight that you can write for or about.
          Care to explain to the campers what a "vertical market" is? (and it's "categories")
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          • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
            Now what fun would that be?

            Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

            Care to explain to the campers what a "vertical market" is? (and it's "categories")
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          • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
            Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

            Care to explain to the campers what a "vertical market" is? )
            Here's one:

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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
              Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

              Here's one:
              Nah, it's when you take viagra while writing copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
      Originally Posted by darbok View Post

      I'm a pretty good content writer which is somewhat like copy writing but the whole getting traffic part is what still eludes and frustrates me.
      I'm sorry but no. Being a content writer is NOTHING like being a copywriter.

      I didn't mean to rub you the wrong way but that's like saying being a dragonfly is like being a Dragon.

      Or that your house cat is a Lion.

      Not even close.

      Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        What, exactly, is a content writer? I've often wondered.
        Someone who works in verticals, man.
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        What, exactly, is a content writer? I've often wondered.
        For the most part a content writer would be someone who writes SEO'ed web content, articles and may get the occasional brochure gig etc...

        Here's the definition according to wiki. I'm not saying they are dead on or anything.

        content writer
        Web definitions

        Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    Also bear in mind there is a big difference between copywriting and marketing.

    You can be ace at copywriting and suck at marketing

    Or ace at marketing and suck at copywriting.

    Being proficient at both is key.

    If you can do both well. You are in the few. ( of course everyone will blow their horn and say they are the worlds best XYZ )
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    I don't know how you can be a decent copywriter and NOT start your own thing, at least on the side.

    If nothing else, out of frustration that the awesome ad you wrote got butchered by a client who thought they knew what they were doing. Then you think...that was a damn good ad...why don't create my own similar product and publish it myself?

    That's exactly what happened to me. The ad still brings me good returns and it's been 6 years. I still take on clients to stay sharp, and if the client is willing to pay a good rate, the extra money is nice.

    I still think Dan Kennedy's got the best model: ongoing royalties on client work, information products, high end consulting and the occasional high ticket seminar.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rdelgado00384
    Most projects online require web traffic is there anything i can do to get enough people to see my copy? I am a newbie but i feel this post. I'm willing to give it all i got by step 1
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