Aye what gift our Godie give us, to see ourselves as others see us.

by gjabiz
6 replies
That's the English version of a Robert Burns stanza in his poem, To A Louse.

Does it surprise you that some people, especially those with education...see copywriters as shifty shady salesman?

Not me. Salesman are looked down on in our society, the general belief from the ivory towers is, salesman are people who can't do anything else.

OF course, that is not true, but, nonetheless it is a popular opinion.

And selling via print or by remote means is much harder and requires a refined selling approach. But still, there are those who believe we simply lie, manipulate words, apply secret levers to the buying part of their minds just to extract as much moolah from their wallets as we can.

Copywriting is much more difficult than many people think,. especially those who want to jump in and 30 days later start their easy 6 figure a year copy business. Truthfully, the industry does share the blame, with great sales letters telling people how easy it is and such.

MY opinion, copywriters are like Knights of the Round Table...those that can actually defend the castle (client) from the assault of indifference toward their products. Those who can write and get results.

But there are an AWFUL lot of squires who aspire to Knigthood who can't even saddle a horse or help with the armor.

And it appears they are gaining the reputation bestowed upon used car salesman...a reputation THEY have surely earned.

How do you see yourself copywriters?

A knight in shiny armor or a snake oil salesman?

gjabiz
#aye #gift #give #godie
  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Well, this is an interesting topic because, no matter how you slice it, copywriting is manipulative and mercenary. Those are the objective facts of the matter.

    Then there's also the fact that it -- for most copywriters -- involves a bit of lying. If half of the clickbank offers did what they say they do, everybody would be rich, in great shape, well balanced, and the world would be a different place than it is.

    Maybe you wouldn't call what they do lying, but there are a lot of half-truths and lies of omission in a lot of copywriting.

    At times you might be required to write woman-to-woman (though you're a dude), guy-to-guy (though you're female), and from the perspective of all kinds of professionals you're not. One copywriter I admire has examples of this right in his sample work on his website.

    Did Caples ever really get laughed at when he sat down at the piano? As I understand it, he wrote the ad on behalf of one his ad agency's clients instead.

    I'm not saying copywriting should be looked down upon, but there is a bit of an ethical conundrum that you have to come to terms with, especially if you're going to write for virtually anyone with a product and $$ enough to hire you.

    I faced that ethical conundrum once in a staff position, when I had to do some corporate advocacy work on behalf of cigarette marketers.

    On the other hand, maybe there's a bit of an ethical conundrum in most ways people make a living...?

    :confused:

    I guess what I'm really trying to say is ... interesting topic, gja. I'm surprised it hasn't come up sooner.

    p.s. -- Some of the best marketers in history were snake-oil salesmen.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      those guys selling all the potions, the cure-all oil, etc. were the scams of the day that helped create the FDA and FTC.

      Selling a cure for cancer? Well ask a couple of guys who did that. Selling a supplement with ingredients which have been shown to aid in....digestion?? for example, um, may be a moral fine line for some.

      In my career I never wrote or worked for anyone who sold Alcohol, Tobacco or Firearms. And today, I'd add SUGAR to the list (which has probably killed more people than the other 3 combined)

      We all have our own moral compass, and we should follow it. But when it comes to faith based products, like religion, astrology or even dream interpretation, then "let the buyer beware", although most consumers of these type of products are the choir the preacher is preaching to.

      Outright lies in selling or copywriting? Not a good thing, which is why there are guidelines and legal departments in major marketing companies but that doesn't stop GM from selling millions of defective cars which costs lives, does it?

      Lots of Bernie Madoffs in the world.

      Just one opinion, but as a copywriter using hyperbole and fluff, and a lot of "inferred" writing, by letting the reader come to his/her own conclusions I think you can make a strong piece of copy without lying and going against your own morals.

      gjabiz

      PS. It is problematic for some and each person gets to make their own decisions and do what they can live with.
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      • Profile picture of the author splitTest
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        It is problematic for some and each person gets to make their own decisions and do what they can live with.
        Exactly right.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    SplitTest - I see this as a fundamental viewpoint difference.

    Most copywriters see themselves as equal part storytellers and salesmen.

    Would you tell the Brothers Grimm they're liars because they told a story? No, it's just what they do.

    So yes, Caples told a story about one of his clients. Does that make him a liar? Did he ever in this ad say, "I, John Caples, sat down at the piano..."?

    Retelling a true story constitutes a lie? If you use the story of an actual user who got great results from your product, is it a lie because you yourself didn't experience it?

    So yeah, a lot of us get rather insulted when someone comes in and calls us liars or says we're walking moral lines. I consider myself more of a miner...elbows deep in all the shit, wading around for that golden nugget of truth that will really resonate with someone.

    I dig through it so that when I'm positioning a product I believe in, I don't have to lie.


    And to answer the original question, I see myself as less a knight, more a rockstar kicking down the wall and lighting something on fire.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post


      And to answer the original question, I see myself as less a knight, more a rockstar kicking down the wall and lighting something on fire.
      Cool.

      I'd have to be a rocking chair star...

      Probably that binge watching of Game Of Thrones has all the Knight talk...when I'd rather be a Sherlock Holmes (any of them) type trying to solve my client's dilemma of poor sales with my keen observation and superior deducing.

      Or even seducing.

      Rock ON and Peace Out you Red haired "Lydia".

      Groucho Marx (Lydia) - YouTube

      gjabiz

      PS. Love tats and every bit the lech as Groucho!
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      SplitTest - I see this as a fundamental viewpoint difference.

      Most copywriters see themselves as equal part storytellers and salesmen.

      Would you tell the Brothers Grimm they're liars because they told a story? No, it's just what they do.

      So yes, Caples told a story about one of his clients. Does that make him a liar? Did he ever in this ad say, "I, John Caples, sat down at the piano..."?

      Retelling a true story constitutes a lie? If you use the story of an actual user who got great results from your product, is it a lie because you yourself didn't experience it?

      So yeah, a lot of us get rather insulted when someone comes in and calls us liars or says we're walking moral lines. I consider myself more of a miner...elbows deep in all the shit, wading around for that golden nugget of truth that will really resonate with someone.

      I dig through it so that when I'm positioning a product I believe in, I don't have to lie.


      And to answer the original question, I see myself as less a knight, more a rockstar kicking down the wall and lighting something on fire.
      I think Caples wrote that tale with the intent that readers believe it and hand over the dough... Not to entertain them with storytelling.

      Not saying Caples is a liar, just saying that as copywriters we walk a fine line. Some do it well, some go way overboard ... like the "natural cancer cure" stuff gja mentioned. They're out there!

      Some copywriters would take that business, some wouldn't.

      I'm reminded of the vintage cigarette ad encouraging women to smoke during pregnancy because it makes your baby smaller, for an easier birth! Who wouldn't want an easy childbirth?

      We're just human beings with a special talent and insight (to whatever degree). Whether we're good, bad or neutral depends on how we use it.
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