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The care and feeding of us (Harenhall) RATS...Who let the girls in?

by gjabiz
16 replies
All members of the boys club AKA, WF Copywriting Sub-forum.
Which one of you dirty rats allowed these women in? Never mind their talent, education and ability, don't you know we ARE the Boy's Club...

The Mean Boys at that.

We are the rats of Harrenhall, in HBO Series Game of Thrones. They take rats and put them in metal buckets, strap it on to their captors stomachs, and then take a torch and heat the bucket, until the rat makes his escape.

Sound like torture?

Or a WF copywriter's boys club critique?

First, when do I get my card? And what are the benefits of being in the club, because I didn't know I was in one, and one full of rats even.

I've also thought of myself as being the helpful, friendly one, the guy who will try to offer up some experience based advice as appropriate...again, MR. Burns

Aye what gift our godie gives us,
to see ourselves as others see us.

Just ONE opinion, this is the most honest of all the WF forums and the most helpful for IMers.

But, as the post on main forum now illuminates this nasty little rat hole, and the boy's clubs we are...

We must be the DARK, the night time of the WF where,

the night is dark and full of Terrors.

Can we be more kind, more gentle? Sure, I admire guys like Mike H. and Rick D., and how thoughtful they are and how wise is their way of telling someone their copy suks, so nice. I prefer to say, you copy sucks, and the reason why is______ or more likely as not...

I don't know. Test it.

Give it a try. Find out.

Over the years the copy forum has had it's share of wise guys, know it alls and pretenders....but seriously, I can't recall any of them whose worst critiques were made with the intention of hurting someone's feelings. I've gotten my share of awful reviews about copy I've written...

And you know what? They were right, it sucked. What a bunch of rats you all are, for , for, what is it... oh, being forthright and honest.

We all have our different styles, I'd love to be as calm and level headed as some here...but, then I'm not selling any copywriting services or products.

I just love to get put in the bucket so I can knaw my way into some poor unsuspecting NON boy's club member's gut.

gjabiz

P.S. Can't we all just say the copy farts posted here for critique smell like roses?

Written for my own amusement, not the least bit defensive. MODS delete if you want. Is there an icon for shoulder shrug?
#care #feeding #girls #harenhall #ratswho
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Let me put myself in the line of fire...

    What exactly inspired this post Gordon?

    Seems awfully preemptive and defensive... to me.

    I posted a thread in the main forum - urging more people to participate here.

    It's interesting how non-regulars view this place. Nothing new by any means.

    But there's really no need for anyone here to be keepers of the gate. There is no club. Just regulars who are protective of this place.

    When I came here...

    I was intimidated. Very intimidated.

    And when I started posting, I got attacked. A lot.

    But I rolled with it. I learned a TON - even in the threads where people couldn't have disagreed with me any more.

    I'm not here to please people either.

    I definitely speak my voice. And even in the times when I'm writing with an edge in my feedback, I'm ALWAYS coming from a positive intention.

    And sometimes I feel like I'm in a Counting Crows song...

    "These train conversations are passing me by
    And I don't have nothing to say"

    I agree with you...

    This is the most helpful sub-forum for IMers.

    But the lack of activity here isn't a mystery.

    Everyone needs to back off, take a chill pill and be frickin' human beings.

    We all started somewhere.

    And everyone deserves the chance to learn this stuff.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      Let me put myself in the line of fire...

      What exactly inspired this post Gordon?
      Okay, I'll step out there with you... I suspect the OP was inspired by comments in another recent thread that both Gordon and Angie made blunt comments about what the problem is there.

      Maybe it is just me, but I see common references in both threads. Bluntness can be helpful to one person, and torture to another.

      Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Apparently this girl is one of the guys. I've been asked to tone it down lately, but I disagree.

    I know people don't like blunt.

    I don't want to deal with people who can't handle it. I just don't have the patience.

    The beauty of so many copywriters with so many different styles. You're bound to find someone whose personality meshes well with yours.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      I know people don't like blunt.
      F people.

      Unless and until I start working at Dunkin' Donuts, I don't have time for sugar-coating.

      I appreciate your directness and am glad you didn't listen to anyone telling you to tone it down.

      Tone it down my ass...
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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    I'm fairly new here, but so far I haven't seen much meanness. No more than on any other web forum...

    And the people who ask for critiques generally take them pretty well, as far as I've seen.

    What's all the hubbub?
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  • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
    I don't find this forum very rough. In fact, it's the main forum I look through anymore.

    Every now and then I check the war room, but unless you dig is often not much different then the wso section in my opinion. And often those sections simply tell you to create a product and sell it.

    Considering the products are generally how to make money online and most don't have a clue in the first place, it seems kinda pointless. Sell a product telling people how to succeed before you have succeeded yourself?

    I enjoy this section because it's honestly the only section I have really learned anything in. Not saying there isn't any value or things to be learned in the other areas, but that this, at least to a point, seems to be where the journey should begin.

    I used to frequent WAHM years back, before it was bought out. You wanna see some tough talk, the political and current events section was fight club at times.

    Last I saw, the new owners sissified it so it lost its draw.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    I think we lose some members possibly interested in posting here due to the rep. Still, it is better to find out the flaws in your letter here than die a slow, painful death in the marketplace.
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    - Jack Trout
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      I think we lose some members possibly interested in posting here due to the rep. Still, it is better to find out the flaws in your letter here than die a slow, painful death in the marketplace.
      Everyone here responds to threads, especially critque threads for different reasons.

      But the constant is self-promotion.

      Most people have a sig and every post that demonstrates your authority is another potential handful of clicks.

      Now...

      I'm as guilty as anyone for my bluntness. I don't just do it here either. I can be a total d!ck to my clients - when I disagree with them.

      There's a difference between being blunt and being a prick.

      That line gets straddled here daily... by many people... including yours truly.

      John said... "F people."

      Wrong attitude.

      If you want to post feedback on this forum, do it. But don't do it, "Because people are stupid... and I need to set them straight."

      Joe said... "Still, it is better to find out the flaws in your letter here than die a slow, painful death in the marketplace."

      Does everybody really think flippant advice actually gets results.

      Sure, some people take the time to really break things down. You can be blunt... and even kinda mean - if you really want to help someone prevent a disaster.

      It depends on your personal character.

      Angie... for instance... is blunt. But personally, it's easy to tell she has a big heart.

      Mal... on the other hand... it's hard to tell. Is he a good guy? I used to think no. But would someone take the time to try and help (even with an edge) - if he didn't care? No. I don't think so.

      Here's what I know...

      This place needs new blood. It's feeling a little masturbatory in here lately. I had to overcome my own intimidation of this place to feel like I'm a part of "the club." Most people won't bother.

      Nobody needs to change.

      But check yourself, because if you want this place to have more quality threads and posts, become a part of the solution. A rep can change. It doesn't have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      Anyway... I need to actually work.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        John said... "F people."

        Wrong attitude.
        Says you.

        I am not the prolific poster but I will remove my signature and continue to post. It is not about the self-promotion for me.

        This isn't even my market as I write pretty much exclusively for investment newsletters these days.

        I do my bit to help keep newbies pointed in the right direction - and will keep doing so because I enjoy it.

        And...I'll do so with whatever attitude I choose. Don't think I've ever had a post deleted.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
          Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

          Says you.

          I am not the prolific poster but I will remove my signature and continue to post. It is not about the self-promotion for me.

          This isn't even my market as I write pretty much exclusively for investment newsletters these days.

          I do my bit to help keep newbies pointed in the right direction - and will keep doing so because I enjoy it.

          And...I'll do so with whatever attitude I choose. Don't think I've ever had a post deleted.
          I like what you have to say. And there's nothing wrong with self-promotion.

          You'll do your part to help? Good. You know what you're talking about. That's always clear. I don't think the F people bit is what you actually believe.

          Of course...

          Feel free to overreact.

          mark
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
            Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

            I like what you have to say. And there's nothing wrong with self-promotion.

            You'll do your part to help? Good. You know what you're talking about. That's always clear. I don't think the F people bit is what you actually believe.

            Of course...

            Feel free to overreact.

            mark
            I didn't overreact.

            It's 2 separate things - I didn't make that very clear originally.

            First - the 'F people' was out of context - I was saying it to Angie regarding the people who told her to tone down the bluntness - I meant F them.

            And - removing my signature - I have been meaning to do that anyway because I am no longer looking for clients here.

            It really is not all about self-promotion as you said - not for me anyway.

            But mostly - I just don't like people telling me I have a 'wrong' attitude. It's why I don't have a boss.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
              Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

              I didn't overreact.

              It's 2 separate things - I didn't make that very clear originally.

              First - the 'F people' was out of context - I was saying it to Angie regarding the people who told her to tone down the bluntness - I meant F them.

              And - removing my signature - I have been meaning to do that anyway because I am no longer looking for clients here.

              It really is not all about self-promotion as you said - not for me anyway.

              But mostly - I just don't like people telling me I have a 'wrong' attitude. It's why I don't have a boss.
              Let me join you in the sig removal.
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
                Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

                Let me join you in the sig removal.
                I put mine back...only new and improved.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Pescetti... Jesus... put a sock in it will you. Before I'm tempted to rip you a new one. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Pescetti... Jesus... put a sock in it will you. Before I'm tempted to rip you a new one. You have no idea what you're talking about.
      Everyone's got an opinion Mal. Just because you have one doesn't make mine wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

    Pescetti... Jesus... put a sock in it will you. Before I'm tempted to rip you a new one. You have no idea what you're talking about.
    JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

    Just kidding.

    Maybe.

    Remember - nothing bad ever happens to writers. It's all material.

    And I could use some material for my next script.
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