Working for an ad agency as a direct response copywriter

by djs13
20 replies
Hello WF!

Long-time lurker, first time poster.

I graduated college a year ago (majored in Business Administration), moved home and got a non-marketing job. I chose this decision to save money and pay off student loan debt.

I've been studying copywriting since college and have completed some small freelance projects these last few months. I have noticed there are many successful marketers/copywriters on WF that work for themselves. This is a route I would like to take eventually, but for now I would like to spend some of my newly acquired savings to relocate to a dynamic area somewhere south or west (I'm in NY).

I think working for an advertising agency in a copywriting role may be a good option for me at this point. I wouldn't have to worry about missing the rent payment and I would be sharpening my chops while on the job.

But here is where I am confused.

There are an abundant amount of copywriting positions in "creative" agencies that focus more on making a customer feel a certain way about a particular brand than actually selling anything. I don't want to work for this type of agency.

But I have found almost four creative agencies for every one direct response agency I come across. From my research, the creatives tend to advertise for full-time copywriters while the direct response guys are not. I have even researched some of these DR agencies on Linkedin and couldn't find any employee with "copywriter" as their title.

Just to clarify, I have been primarily looking at agencies in Ft. Lauderale, Austin and San Diego. These are all places I would like to live and start a business one day. Maybe this isn't the case in other areas?

Is becoming a full-time copywriter at a direct response agency a good path to take? How do I get my foot in the door?
#agency #copywriter #direct #response #working
  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Lots of companies besides agencies use direct-response copywriters. Publishers, for example. (Think TimeLife...)
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    One way to get feedback: Call up a few agencies and ask to speak with a copywriter. Tell them exactly your situation and what you want to know. They will be happy to help. Well, not all but most.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Joe's pretty much right. Most of us (copywriters in general) have been helped by others and are happy to share what we've learned.
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  • Profile picture of the author DamianGil
    Get into affiliate marketing, use and develop your talent to build sites, run a successful blog in a non-marketing niche.

    You see, copywriting is a nice ability to get, but there are more important stuff such as being able to entertain and engage with content and develop a following. You won't necessarily get the abilities you think in a copywriting job because it's usually different from direct response copywriting.

    You need a more sales-like position such as a seller of such BA services you currently sell on. Or you can add some work in your back without charging for it to get your firm some clients and use and test your skills. Maybe you can even get a deal for commissions but people in key positions will notice about your skills. Living the independent WF lifestyle isn't for everyone. You need to maximize what you've already achieved and not just ditch it all for a new life just because what you think other warrior members have. If you do this, basically you'll start from scratch.

    Hope this helps you.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by DamianGil View Post

      Get into affiliate marketing, use and develop your talent to build sites, run a successful blog in a non-marketing niche.
      NO. Just no.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    It's not accurate to say creative agencies are not judged on sales of product. I worked with them for 30 years and they are under pressure to sell the client's widget. Yes, awards are important, but in today's world if you don't sell you get whacked.

    If I were you, I wouldn't worry if an agency is direct response or not. My guess is you'll be lucky to get in anywhere as a copywriter.

    But it can be done. I doubt a large agency in those towns would hire you, but a smaller shop might. That's good for you, because you'll work on a wider variety of campaigns, some image and some DR. You'll get a feel for both.

    I'd ask this question at these LinkedIn Groups. There are lots of creative agency people there and they will give you a better idea of your chances:

    Advertising Copywriting:

    https://www.linkedin.com/groups?mostRecent=&gid=58585

    Advertising Professionals:

    https://www.linkedin.com/groups?mostRecent=&gid=60700

    Also ask at this Direct Response copywriting group what they think:

    Claude C. Hopkins Copywriter:

    https://www.linkedin.com/groups?most...=&gid=2804436&

    And like I said, just pick up the phone. Ask to speak to the copy chief, head copywriter or creative director. Tell them what you wrote here, and ask for advice. Call 10 shops in each city, some large, some small.

    If you do get in, ask if you can sit in on some pitch meetings. Ask if you can sit in on some focus groups. Learn as much as you can everyday. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author OutOfThisWord
      You might just want to get to Austin, however you get there - meaning take whatever job you can get and then target who you would really like to work for and use your direct marketing skills to land a job over time.
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    • Profile picture of the author djs13
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      If I were you, I wouldn't worry if an agency is direct response or not. My guess is you'll be lucky to get in anywhere as a copywriter.
      I appreciate the advice and input from everyone. I think I need to do more outreach, specifically by phone.

      Originally Posted by Jay White View Post

      I started out on this path (sort of)...worked for about 8 years in a couple of in-house agency types before going freelance. One for outdoor catalogs, another for the LASIK industry. A great education in copywriting BUT the whole direct response thing seems lost on the agency folks. Copy seems to be on the lower tier of importance, while design is king. They all think the pretty pictures sell everything and the words are only a necessary evil. So many times, you'll find your master stroke of copy genius getting watered down into obscurity. Frustrating to say the least.

      Going freelance was the best thing I ever did. While all this experience as an in-house guy helped me cut my copywriting teeth (and advance my skills by actually doing instead of studying a course), once I went freelance I never looked back.
      I have heard similar stories from others regarding the decrease of importance of copy in the agency setting. I'm at a point in my life where I want to relocate and doing this along with freelancing seems to be too risky for me right now. But on the other hand, I am adamant about joining an agency that tests their ads and I would really prefer to spend most of my time on direct response.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay White
    I started out on this path (sort of)...worked for about 8 years in a couple of in-house agency types before going freelance. One for outdoor catalogs, another for the LASIK industry. A great education in copywriting BUT the whole direct response thing seems lost on the agency folks. Copy seems to be on the lower tier of importance, while design is king. They all think the pretty pictures sell everything and the words are only a necessary evil. So many times, you'll find your master stroke of copy genius getting watered down into obscurity. Frustrating to say the least.

    Going freelance was the best thing I ever did. While all this experience as an in-house guy helped me cut my copywriting teeth (and advance my skills by actually doing instead of studying a course), once I went freelance I never looked back.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    I'll second Joe's recommendation. I got my current in-house copywriting job through the Advertising Copywriters group on LinkedIn.

    Second point: there's more opportunity to fiddle with ground-breaking copy and direct response as a part of in-house teams. I don't work for an agency, I work for a company with marketing and creative departments. These are GREAT places to cut your teeth, in my opinion.

    I've been training a new copywriter in the past couple months and it's opened my eyes as to just how much thought goes into every single decision, every single word.

    If you want to be a copywriter, get a copywriting job. Learn what you like and what you don't, and then position yourself to get the job you want. Or to freelance, which is also a viable option.
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    • Profile picture of the author djs13
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      Second point: there's more opportunity to fiddle with ground-breaking copy and direct response as a part of in-house teams. I don't work for an agency, I work for a company with marketing and creative departments. These are GREAT places to cut your teeth, in my opinion.

      I've been training a new copywriter in the past couple months and it's opened my eyes as to just how much thought goes into every single decision, every single word.

      If you want to be a copywriter, get a copywriting job. Learn what you like and what you don't, and then position yourself to get the job you want. Or to freelance, which is also a viable option.
      Thank for the response.

      What types of companies typically have in-house teams? Is there an industry/company-type I should research specifically?

      Also, as a new copywriter myself, did the writer you are training have prior experience and/or attend copy school? I have been told to go to copy school many times but I still have student loan debt to payoff. I am trying to do this without prior experience or copy school .
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by djs13 View Post

        Thank for the response.

        What types of companies typically have in-house teams? Is there an industry/company-type I should research specifically?

        Also, as a new copywriter myself, did the writer you are training have prior experience and/or attend copy school? I have been told to go to copy school many times but I still have student loan debt to payoff. I am trying to do this without prior experience or copy school .
        Lots of companies have in-house copywriters. Just do a jobs search on LinkedIn for copywriter and you'll see what I mean. You'd be starting as a junior, so keep an eye out for that. There are also creative placement agencies (I hate 'em, personally), Craigslist (in most major cities, people have to pay to post in the Jobs section, not so much in the Gigs section), and other advertising/marketing-focused networking groups.

        The copywriter I'm training actually did major in English, but as far as solid copy experience? Nope. We took her in as a junior on her ability to write well and pick things up quickly. There have been some stumbling blocks as she learns the rather big differences between creative writing and copywriting, but she's handled every curve ball like a damn pro.

        If you want an in-house job, get a solid resume (preferably one that stands out, creatively), and make sure your portfolio rocks. Even if it's not a large portfolio, make every piece count.

        EDITED TO ADD:
        My copy team is small but mighty. We churn out a huge volume of copy every single day, and thankfully we have a Creative Director who understands the value of what we do. He also understands we have areas we're passionate about. As such, there's one writer who predominantly handles weekly ads. There's another who does the majority of the emails. And I do a lot of the direct response/mailings/print ads. A good CD will develop your strengths and interests.
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        • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
          Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

          Lots of companies have in-house copywriters. Just do a jobs search on LinkedIn for copywriter and you'll see what I mean. You'd be starting as a junior, so keep an eye out for that. There are also creative placement agencies (I hate 'em, personally), Craigslist (in most major cities, people have to pay to post in the Jobs section, not so much in the Gigs section), and other advertising/marketing-focused networking groups.

          The copywriter I'm training actually did major in English, but as far as solid copy experience? Nope. We took her in as a junior on her ability to write well and pick things up quickly. There have been some stumbling blocks as she learns the rather big differences between creative writing and copywriting, but she's handled every curve ball like a damn pro.

          If you want an in-house job, get a solid resume (preferably one that stands out, creatively), and make sure your portfolio rocks. Even if it's not a large portfolio, make every piece count.

          EDITED TO ADD:
          My copy team is small but mighty. We churn out a huge volume of copy every single day, and thankfully we have a Creative Director who understands the value of what we do. He also understands we have areas we're passionate about. As such, there's one writer who predominantly handles weekly ads. There's another who does the majority of the emails. And I do a lot of the direct response/mailings/print ads. A good CD will develop your strengths and interests.
          I would love that kind of opportunity. Yet it seems really tough to find them here...

          I would love the opportunity to work under someone and learn everything: I've always learnt better in that environment. As it is, though, I'm one of only two guys in my office who can write ANY copy, even though it's utter garbage!

          I would love to find an agency here to take me in, but the vacancies are few and far between, it seems. At least the ones in English.

          The other option, of course, is to become a pup for someone on the internet, but I think I need a lot more work first.
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          • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
            Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

            I would love that kind of opportunity. Yet it seems really tough to find them here...

            I would love the opportunity to work under someone and learn everything: I've always learnt better in that environment. As it is, though, I'm one of only two guys in my office who can write ANY copy, even though it's utter garbage!

            I would love to find an agency here to take me in, but the vacancies are few and far between, it seems. At least the ones in English.

            The other option, of course, is to become a pup for someone on the internet, but I think I need a lot more work first.
            So, I realize what I'm about to say is not possible or feasible in some situations.

            But here goes: if there are no jobs in your dream field where you currently live, why do you still live there? Go where the jobs are. If you can't go where the jobs are, make it your eventual goal and start working toward that every day.

            I guarantee you if I were still in rural Texas, I wouldn't have achieved what I have.

            It's not impossible to do it where you live - as you mentioned, there's always virtual mentoring. Whatever you need to do, if you want this as a career, start doing it.
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            • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
              Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

              So, I realize what I'm about to say is not possible or feasible in some situations.

              But here goes: if there are no jobs in your dream field where you currently live, why do you still live there? Go where the jobs are. If you can't go where the jobs are, make it your eventual goal and start working toward that every day.

              I guarantee you if I were still in rural Texas, I wouldn't have achieved what I have.

              It's not impossible to do it where you live - as you mentioned, there's always virtual mentoring. Whatever you need to do, if you want this as a career, start doing it.
              Because job is no.2 in my life and everything else is good here. Plus, all the other places I would like to live would have less opportunities.

              I didn't expect to want this when I moved here, but it's the direction I've gone in professionally and I will try to make the best of it. If I cannot find a job with an agency, I'll just keep working on it on my own, in any spare time I have, until it clicks.

              That may take me another 6 months, 6 years or decades, but my job isn't my be-all-and-end-all.

              I'd just like a bit more cash and who doesn't want that!
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        • Profile picture of the author djs13
          Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

          Lots of companies have in-house copywriters. Just do a jobs search on LinkedIn for copywriter and you'll see what I mean. You'd be starting as a junior, so keep an eye out for that. There are also creative placement agencies (I hate 'em, personally), Craigslist (in most major cities, people have to pay to post in the Jobs section, not so much in the Gigs section), and other advertising/marketing-focused networking groups.

          The copywriter I'm training actually did major in English, but as far as solid copy experience? Nope. We took her in as a junior on her ability to write well and pick things up quickly. There have been some stumbling blocks as she learns the rather big differences between creative writing and copywriting, but she's handled every curve ball like a damn pro.

          If you want an in-house job, get a solid resume (preferably one that stands out, creatively), and make sure your portfolio rocks. Even if it's not a large portfolio, make every piece count.

          EDITED TO ADD:
          My copy team is small but mighty. We churn out a huge volume of copy every single day, and thankfully we have a Creative Director who understands the value of what we do. He also understands we have areas we're passionate about. As such, there's one writer who predominantly handles weekly ads. There's another who does the majority of the emails. And I do a lot of the direct response/mailings/print ads. A good CD will develop your strengths and interests.
          Thank you for the great response. That cleared some things up for me. I'll update the community as I progress, and I'll probably be posting my DR portfolio for review sometime in a few weeks!

          Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    What's your ultimate goal and how fast do you want to get there?

    I ask because, there are advantages to cutting your teeth out in the cold, hard, blood-stained battlefield of freelancing as opposed to sitting inside an agency where you may, or may not, get to take the failures, disappointments and straight up rejections right on the chin.

    There's a lot to be learned by doing it the hard way. Not to mention that being insulated from the client interactions might cause you to learn some things that just ain't so out here in the school of hard knocks. You'll have to unlearn those, could take a while.

    Sure, I've met some cats who started in agencies. One of them is working on his own now and, last time I talked to him, he's making a bit shy of $4 million a year. But he was directly involved with the clients. When the ad didn't produce, the customer had a direct line to his desk. That counts for something...and you don't find that level of accountability in a lot of ad agencies.

    Sometimes, you simply sit in your cubicle, on your nice cushy swivel chair, being fattened up by free donut breakfasts and Friday potlucks lunches, while taking pats on the back from the boss and (gasps) the designers about how great your work looks. LOADS of opportunities to learn a WHOLE lot about what DOESN'T work.

    Just sayin,' jumping right in the cold water might not be such a bad idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
      Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      What's your ultimate goal and how fast do you want to get there?

      I ask because, there are advantages to cutting your teeth out in the cold, hard, blood-stained battlefield of freelancing as opposed to sitting inside an agency where you may, or may not, get to take the failures, disappointments and straight up rejections right on the chin.

      There's a lot to be learned by doing it the hard way. Not to mention that being insulated from the client interactions might cause you to learn some things that just ain't so out here in the school of hard knocks. You'll have to unlearn those, could take a while.

      Sure, I've met some cats who started in agencies. One of them is working on his own now and, last time I talked to him, he's making a bit shy of $4 million a year. But he was directly involved with the clients. When the ad didn't produce, the customer had a direct line to his desk. That counts for something...and you don't find that level of accountability in a lot of ad agencies.

      Sometimes, you simply sit in your cubicle, on your nice cushy swivel chair, being fattened up by free donut breakfasts and Friday potlucks lunches, while taking pats on the back from the boss and (gasps) the designers about how great your work looks. LOADS of opportunities to learn a WHOLE lot about what DOESN'T work.

      Just sayin,' jumping right in the cold water might not be such a bad idea.
      I won't pretend that I'm anywhere near ready to write copy that flies off the shelf. Yet I'll keep going and keep learning until I can.

      I will need to write copy for one of my own products sometime in the next 6 months, though, and that will be the acid test. Saying that, I think the product sells itself, even though it doesn't have the potential to be a huge earner.
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

        Saying that, I think the product sells itself, even though it doesn't have the potential to be a huge earner.
        Never assume any product will sell itself. Many great products have been sent to the grave by that assumption.
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        • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
          Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

          Never assume any product will sell itself. Many great products have been sent to the grave by that assumption.
          I'll clarify: It needs to be put in front of the right eyes and the features explained. I don't think it'll need a top sales letter and anyway, it wouldn't be worth it considering the potential returns.
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