Can you please explain to me why this is a good sales letter?

31 replies
I assume this is a "good" sales letter because a) it's included with Agora's Capital & Crisis newsletter, and b) it's the second time it's been included with the newsletter in the past 5 months (and the only time so far I've gotten a repeated sales letter).

http://robertpa.com/wp-content/uploa.../Open-Call.pdf

I think it's crap because I think the proof is crap. On page 2, the author "demonstrates" in three easy steps how you "could have" turned $500 into $2.8 million in about 3 months.

Yeah, and if I had $500 on the trifecta at the Belmont Stakes this year, I'd be building my mother-in-law her dream house on a cliff-side in Italy right now (Arrivederci, mama!)

No where does the author remotely claim that he picked these stocks for himself or his newsletter subscribers.

This is all I think about after reading this demonstration the first time, and then even more so when he does it again a few pages later.

This is targeted to financial newsletter readers - who have $2500 to drop on an annual subscription to another financial newsletter. Who's falling for this "it could happen" bullshit?

If I'm gonna study this stuff, then please, explain to me why this is a letter that gets a second run (or maybe more, I don't know how long this has been running).

Thanks,
-Rob

PS. I think the guarantee is crap too.
#explain #good #letter #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

    I assume this is a "good" sales letter because a) it's included with Agora's Capital & Crisis newsletter, and b) it's the second time it's been included with the newsletter in the past 5 months (and the only time so far I've gotten a repeated sales letter).

    http://robertpa.com/wp-content/uploa.../Open-Call.pdf

    I think it's crap because I think the proof is crap. On page 2, the author "demonstrates" in three easy steps how you "could have" turned $500 into $2.8 million in about 3 months.

    Yeah, and if I had $500 on the trifecta at the Belmont Stakes this year, I'd be building my mother-in-law her dream house on a cliff-side in Italy right now (Arrivederci, mama!)

    No where does the author remotely claim that he picked these stocks for himself or his newsletter subscribers.

    This is all I think about after reading this demonstration the first time, and then even more so when he does it again a few pages later.

    This is targeted to financial newsletter readers - who have $2500 to drop on an annual subscription to another financial newsletter. Who's falling for this "it could happen" bullshit?

    If I'm gonna study this stuff, then please, explain to me why this is a letter that gets a second run (or maybe more, I don't know how long this has been running).

    Thanks,
    -Rob

    PS. I think the guarantee is crap too.
    Rob,

    You're analyzing the letter based on logic.

    Jump into the mind of a middle-aged guy who's been working a job (or jobs) for 20 years and has had it. He's fed up. And he's looking at another 20 years of the same before he can retire... if he can retire.

    He reads the first page or two with the big claim, the imagine statements, and the example.

    Now he's experiencing extreme hope. Logic has taken a back seat to the emotions he's feeling.

    "Where can I order?" is the only thing on his mind.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Ok. Got it.

      So, even if I'm writing to a fairly sophisticated investor who already subscribes to my financial newsletter - it's safe to assume he's desperate and blind enough to accept my qet-rich-quick fantasy scenario even if I offer no proof whatsoever that I can deliver on the dream I'm describing.

      I'll keep this in mind when I write my WSO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by perryny View Post

        Ok. Got it.

        So, even if I'm writing to a fairly sophisticated investor who already subscribes to my financial newsletter - it's safe to assume he's desperate and blind enough to accept my qet-rich-quick fantasy scenario even if I offer no proof whatsoever that I can deliver on the dream I'm describing.

        I'll keep this in mind when I write my WSO.
        LOL... nice reframe.

        Never overestimate the sophistication of your market.

        Agora doesn't.

        As Steve said, if you have proof, use it. If not, oh well... a good percentage of your targeted prospects will buy anyway.

        Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author perryny
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          If not, oh well... a good percentage of your targeted prospects will buy anyway.

          Alex


          (Sorry, Brian. It fits.)
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          • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
            Originally Posted by perryny View Post



            (Sorry, Brian. It fits.)
            He's not wrong. If traffic is targeted, and your copy is at least not terrible, you'll get some sales just because you happen to be offering to people exactly what they were looking for. That is, if it's also a good offer, and at a reasonable price as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author splitTest
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          Never overestimate the sophistication of your market.

          Agora doesn't.

          As Steve said, if you have proof, use it. If not, oh well... a good percentage of your targeted prospects will buy anyway.

          Alex
          That can't be true. I'd rather you be correct about this than me (I think), but that can't be true.

          The bigger the claim the more proof you need. Crass stuff like a "30 days to retirement" sales letter can't really be working on an audience minimally smart enough that they have $2,500 to spare, could it?

          If it's working, Agora must have an audience so huge that the fraction of a percent of people who would respond to that pitch makes it worth it.

          Even from the demented gambler's angle that's not such a great product. since it sounds more like work than gambling.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            The reason it's good is for the same reason that people stand in long lines at their local Quick Check to purchase a mega millions lottery ticket in the hope of hitting something that has about as much chance of happening as getting struck by lightning three straight days.

            Logic has no place in appealing to a person's want for a better life. It doesn't matter if the odds are stacked against them. Their will to believe is greater than any odds. All the sales letter has to do is make them believe what they already want to believe anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              The reason it's good is for the same reason that people stand in long lines at their local Quick Check to purchase a mega millions lottery ticket in the hope of hitting something that has about as much chance of happening as getting struck by lightning three straight days.
              .
              And the reason Las Vegas Casino's keep growing bigger and fancier, even in recessions and economic downturns.

              To quote Sinatra ... "It's the thrill baby the thrill".
              It's the "Luck be a Lady" mentality that's needs scratching!
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            • Profile picture of the author GlenH
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              The reason it's good is for the same reason that people stand in long lines at their local Quick Check to purchase a mega millions lottery ticket in the hope of hitting something that has about as much chance of happening as getting struck by lightning three straight days.

              Logic has no place in appealing to a person's want for a better life. It doesn't matter if the odds are stacked against them. Their will to believe is greater than any odds. All the sales letter has to do is make them believe what they already want to believe anyway.
              Exactly.

              Six years ago I developed a lotto system, and it been selling online for 7 years with sales growing every year.

              Having watched the sales closely over that time, I know sales of the system will increase when some major bad economic new hits.

              It happens without fail
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post


          As Steve said, if you have proof, use it. If not, oh well... a good percentage of your targeted prospects will buy anyway.

          Alex

          Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

          That can't be true. I'd rather you be correct about this than me (I think), but that can't be true.
          It is.

          You'd be surprised how large the percentage of people is who believe without proof.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author perryny
            Can I ask this...

            Who do you think the copywriter of this letter is writing to? Who is the INTENDED reader of this letter?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
              Originally Posted by perryny View Post

              Can I ask this...

              Who do you think the copywriter of this letter is writing to? Who is the INTENDED reader of this letter?
              Current buyers of one of their front-end paid newsletters.

              Men over 50. Some who wear tin-foil hats.
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            • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
              Originally Posted by perryny View Post

              Can I ask this...

              Who do you think the copywriter of this letter is writing to? Who is the INTENDED reader of this letter?
              Misconception of affluent people is:

              they are smarter and less likely to fall for things.

              Even the on their way to upper income crowd. Their "sophistication" sometimes stops at greed. Bernie Madoff understood this all too well.

              Traders are not immune to the Shiny Object Syndrome, it just takes a different form...wasn't long ago that Shale Oil was the SOS of the day. There is ALWAYS something glittering and sparkling in the other pasture where the cows eat corn fed grass.

              Subscribers to financial newsletters actually believe they are receiving some "inside" information, that is a generalization true, but in a game of numbers, which this type of promotion reaches...it doesn't take all that many new subscribers to make their promotional costs to pay off.

              My opinion is these guys are as good as it gets in understanding who their customers are and have them segmented to the Nth degree.

              Quick and Easy. Time and Money. Always have their place in a Biz-Op (financial investor) promotion.

              gjabiz
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
                Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                Subscribers to financial newsletters actually believe they are receiving some "inside" information
                While this is absolutely true, it goes a little deeper...

                Virtually everybody is looking to be led.

                These people are no different. Typically they are worried about their future and want somebody to show them the way. They essentially want the decisions to be out of their hands so they can take the credit if they do well - and so they can place the blame if things don't go well.

                They don't really want to be responsible. As Dan Kennedy says - they are wandering around with their umbilical cords in their hands looking for a place to plugin.

                AND, another powerful motivator...

                They want to belong to a club of others just like them. And as soon as they are in the (front-end) club, they are shown the ladder of ascension to climb to get in the more exclusive clubs.

                3 very powerful motivators...

                - they want to be led
                - to be able to take credit and/or place blame
                - they want to belong
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                • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
                  Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

                  While this is absolutely true, it goes a little deeper...

                  Virtually everybody is looking to be led.

                  These people are no different. Typically they are worried about their future and want somebody to show them the way. They essentially want the decisions to be out of their hands so they can take the credit if they do well - and so they can place the blame if things don't go well.

                  They don't really want to be responsible. As Dan Kennedy says - they are wandering around with their umbilical cords in their hands looking for a place to plugin.

                  AND, another powerful motivator...

                  They want to belong to a club of others just like them. And as soon as they are in the (front-end) club, they are shown the ladder of ascension to climb to get in the more exclusive clubs.

                  3 very powerful motivators...

                  - they want to be led
                  - to be able to take credit and/or place blame
                  - they want to belong
                  Tying in nicely to the TED video Ray posted yesterday.
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                • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
                  Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

                  They essentially want the decisions to be out of their hands so they can take the credit if they do well - and so they can place the blame if things don't go well.
                  You said a mouthful right there, bud.

                  Nice post.
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                  • Profile picture of the author perryny
                    I'm really glad I started this thread. I've learned a LOT from your replies. Thanks so much to you all.

                    The most important take away for me is... know who you're writing to.

                    This is pretty much Rule #1, so I should have thought about this before calling this letter "crap". My apologies to the copywriter, whomever or wherever you are.

                    And, John, check out Weird Al's new video of the day... apparently he might be an investor...
                    Weird Al Official
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              • Profile picture of the author splitTest
                Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post


                Even the on their way to upper income crowd. Their "sophistication" sometimes stops at greed. Bernie Madoff understood this all too well.
                If bernie madoff was a sales letter, he would be mostly social proof with a little exclusivity thrown in for good measure.

                I can see how madoff's associates, neighbors, and extended social circle could fall for his scam (and lure each other into it). I can't see how people would fall for this letter.


                Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                in a game of numbers, which this type of promotion reaches...it doesn't take all that many new subscribers to make their promotional costs to pay off.

                My opinion is these guys are as good as it gets in understanding who their customers are and have them segmented to the Nth degree.
                I agree with that much. At $2500 a pop, they're working the list for all it's worth, and targeting their "avatar" with laser focus. But as johnrussell said, a lot of their targets are old guys wearing tin foil hats (That might even be the reason for the emphasis on retirement and how much cash they'll need to get there...) ... Not really the upper income crowd...

                btw, you can't really compare this to people standing in line for a lotto ticket. (Paying a dollar in response to media excitement, not really expecting to win, but knowing someone "has to" is far different from plunking down $2500 for information to help you get to retirement in 30 days...)

                Nor is it really much like vegas gambling, which is done for fun and thrills... except in so much that vegas gambling might also appeal to this same market.

                It's really the same old "how to make money on penny stocks" stuff, just with a new twist and a higher price tag.

                Must be working tho. The paper version of the letter asks for $2500. The online version asks for $3000.
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            It is.

            You'd be surprised how large the percentage of people is who believe without proof.

            Alex
            Very true. The desire to believe will make people search out their OWN reasons to believe you. Even if the reasons are unreasonable.

            It's called "Cognitive Bias," and if the desire is strong enough, Cognitive dissonance won't allow them to entertain an opposing idea.

            This is why intelligent and well-educated people get lured into million dollar scams by people like Bernie Madoff. This is why people join cults. This is why women stay in abusive relationships and men marry gold diggers.

            If a person wants to believe something bad enough, they'll FIND reasons.

            The questions is whether your copy is powerful enough to get them to that level. Of course, adding logical reasons helps with giving themselves "permission" and feeling okay about it when Homeostasis causes those dopamine, Oxycontin and serotonin levels to come down and buyer's remorse sets in.

            But if the buying trance is strong enough, it can last for several days...

            Your Brain on Story: Why Narratives Win Our Hearts and Minds - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

            ...it can distort your perception and the way you remember things...

            Hypnosis, Memory and the Brain - Scientific American

            ...if your copy is good enough, by the time the hormones wear of, congitive dissonance and cognitive bias won't allow them to "take back" their new beliefs...

            Cognitive Dissonance: Stop Lying to Yourself - Uncommon Knowledge

            Check out this discussion for more on the subject...

            http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...ml#post9173362
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            • Profile picture of the author Memetics
              Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

              Very true. The desire to believe will make people search out their OWN reasons to believe you. Even if the reasons are unreasonable.
              When encountering new information you automatically believe the information for 300 milliseconds then your critical factor decides whether to "Unbelieve" it or not. If it aligns with your existing belief structure than the critical factor allows it into the unconscious as it has already been preapproved by precedent. It's an evolutionary throwback that even animals have. The Gazelle which thinks it sees a lion and runs lived to see another day (it's a zero sum game: get it wrong - you live, get it right - you live) but the one who thinks they see a lion and stops to analyse (and gets it wrong) dies.

              High level persuasion relies on two methods to get past the critical factor.

              1/ Refocusing of the critical factor's attention by introducing new information of emotional content (called cognitive buffering) This works for the simple reason that new information takes precedence over old information. The critical factor has to concentrate on the new stuff as it may have to make a time critical decision to save your ass.

              2/ The introduction of an unconscious state via emotional trigger words operating just under the threat level of the critical factor's cut off zone, such as language patterns, and keeping that state flowing till the end. The critical factor is then lulled into passive mode for what's coming - the call to action.

              It's called "Cognitive Bias," and if the desire is strong enough, Cognitive dissonance won't allow them to entertain an opposing idea.
              Sort of... cognitive biases are beliefs you are born with, and can indeed be used as vehicles to carry new beliefs into the brain by linkage strategies such as Tailgating" or Entanglement" methods but usually we are dealing with acquired beliefs which people accrue over a lifetime and then become linked to emotional or belief structures in the brain.

              These new beliefs are our target but they a very jealously guarded by the emotional brain. The bigger the belief than the bigger the emotion required to reset that belief. Cognitive dissonance is the immune response to beliefs being challenged, it sets the bar high so only very valuable beliefs can enter as they can overcome it.

              If a person wants to believe something bad enough, they'll FIND reasons.
              Very true, once the new belief is in place then the conscious mind post hoc rationalises it so as to not attack it anymore.

              The questions is whether your copy is powerful enough to get them to that level. Of course, adding logical reasons helps with giving themselves "permission".
              The logic is the flow of the copy, nothing too jarring to activate critical factors interest or get anything on its radar.

              ...it can distort your perception and the way you remember things...
              It certainly does, to stay consistent with itself your conscious deletes, distorts and modifies previous information to fit with the new belief.

              ...if your copy is good enough, by the time the hormones wear of, congitive dissonance and cognitive bias won't allow them to "take back" their new beliefs...
              Consistency again, no wonder Cialdini included it in his six principles of persuasion.
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  • The "get rich quick" and the retire with an untold fortune crowd can but don't have to be sophisticated investors.

    I agree with everything Complex and Alex said.

    And I agree with you Perry.

    An abundance of proof is never a bad thing.

    And a rock solid guarantee always helps.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I would agree that this is targeted at the gambling crowd. The letter
    does say that it is HIGH RISK (damaging admission?) so this makes
    up for the lack of proof. You don't have to prove anything if you
    admit that you have no proof that the customer would be successful.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

    This is targeted to financial newsletter readers - who have $2500 to drop on an annual subscription to another financial newsletter. Who's falling for this "it could happen" bullshit?

    If I'm gonna study this stuff, then please, explain to me why this is a letter that gets a second run (or maybe more, I don't know how long this has been running).

    Thanks,
    -Rob

    PS. I think the guarantee is crap too.
    Speaking from experience, Agora Financial has some really sharp marketers and copywriters in their team. So if they're running something more than once, then it's because it's converting well for them. The exception to that statement -- and it's true for every major mailer -- is they gotta mail something for a promotion and that's the only thing they have available at that time. (Kind of like drinking whatever alcohol you happen to have in your house.)

    I call salesletters like this a "string" theme salesletter because they string a series of highly successful trades together to go from a nominal amount of money to a very large amount in a relatively short amount of time.

    I know of two other salesletters like this that have done extremely well. I've written one in this theme myself which I can not publicly disclose.

    The ones that are done really well will use a damaging admission somewhere in the copy, usually before the big claim.

    They'll admit it's a low probability of pulling off. Any stock trading system... it's very rare to pull off 3-5 really big winners in a row. Reason being, once a pick is announced, it's out of the expert's control.

    Some of the best positioned for a breakout stocks may "only" deliver 10% versus the 100% (or more) simply because of outside factors (i.e. bad PR, investors panic selling over "bad news", U.S. government report about unemployment rates (or whatever), etc, etc) out of any one person's control.

    Even so, subscribers are deeply appreciative of every winning pick they get from a service. 10% gain is still a lot better than losing money on a stock.

    Experienced investors know this. They know that it may be a long shot to go from $500 to $2.8 million in a month. But if they do a fraction of that, it will be awesome. They'll be ready to dance in the streets.

    For example, if they "only" get 1% of the big claim result from subscriber, then they're still going from $500 to $2800. Compared to the traditional 8% that the stock market has delivered on average each year since it started, you can see why the vast majority of their subscribers would still be pleased with the results.

    At $2500/year, they'll not targeting newbie investors either. They're targeting aggressive investors who are looking to big risk/big reward stock investments.

    Hope that helps,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    It works because it's tightly written to the avatar.

    Maybe it's John's work?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      It works because it's tightly written to the avatar.

      Maybe it's John's work?

      Mark
      Nope...can't say that it is.

      But I do know that it has done extremely well - in a couple of different iterations.
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  • Profile picture of the author jrigdon73
    If you're selling financial services, you gotta go for the soft sell since most intelligent people will be worried about somebody trying to take their money. You should also have a ton of stats from good sources to back up your pitch. This sales letter doesn't do either of those things.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by jrigdon73 View Post

      If you're selling financial services, you gotta go for the soft sell
      Sorry, that's just not true.
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by jrigdon73 View Post

      If you're selling financial services, you gotta go for the soft sell since most intelligent people will be worried about somebody trying to take their money.
      Where do you newbies come up with this stuff?

      Yes, they're worried....but that doesn't mean you need a soft sell.

      You need to arouse a damn strong desire, make them believe it's THEIR idea but that YOU are responsible if it fails.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    If anyone needs a WSO idea, this thread has it.
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