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How Do You Find The Story In a Product or Service?

by The Niche Man
19 replies
Most people agree a story is essential when it comes to marketing a product or service. But how do you "personally" find the story in a product or service?

I know the common answer people will give is research or interview the creator.

But could you go a little deeper if you can. For example, do you have a specific system, for example:
Step #1. I do this? ...
Step# 2. I do that? ...
Step #3. I do ___________?
-or-
Do you wing it?

How do you find things like the tone or theme or even the conflict when writing an engaging product story.

Any other tips you can add will be greatly appreciated. Or just explain it in the form of a story

Thanks in advance.
#find #product #service #story
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Talk to people who have used it and are raving fans. Talk to people who hate competing products. Comb Amazon reviews if it's a physical product. Ask the creator what inspired it, why it's important to him, what was the most meaningful moment in selling this, etc.

    It's basically digging until you find something. There's no guaranteed way to find the story.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    I look for anything that challenges the norms of the industry and/or the assumptions or prejudices of the reader. Underdog stories are a great examples of this...check out John Carlton's One-Legged-Golfer.

    Another approach is the Hero's Journey, where you not only reveal the "why" behind the brand, but the life-changing epiphany that led to it. The epiphany usually comes after an epic failure, but leads them to discover and insight that lifts them to a higher plain of success than before.

    Ultimately, I look for things that make the reader say:

    1) Wow, I never thought of it that way
    2) Damn, if they did it, why can't I?
    3) Hey, this person thinks like me
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    • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
      Mark Pescetti taught me this a while back... you just get on the phone/Skype and record them.

      Just letting them spill their guts as you ask "guiding" questions.

      People will say stuff on the phone that they wouldn't put down in a questionnaire... it's the human touch.

      Chris
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      Wealthcopywriter.com :)

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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        Essentially this is a journalistic skill.

        I suggest you find resources for journalists on how to do interviews. You ask open-ended questions, listen carefully and ask follow-on questions.

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author DJ Gelner
          This is right up my alley--I've written stories ranging from wild, fantastical sci-fi to relatively "hard-hitting" journalism. The basics of each are the same, and the idea is the same with copywriting--once you have some experience writing more complex, multi-layered stories, copywriting stories can be relatively easier.

          That's not to say they're a piece of cake--like you said, there's a bit of a "template" aspect to some stories, as Seth noted. One template that I like to stick to is the basic three-act structure used in movies, since it keeps things moving along fairly well:

          1) Introduce the main character, and some problem/nemesis to be overcome
          2) The main character struggles against the problem/nemesis
          3) The main character comes up with a solution and implements it, plus a nice little epilogue with how his life is better now.

          It's very basic, and there are dozens of variations, but this is pretty much the dramatic arc boiled down to its core, as far as copywriting goes.

          Keep it simple--you obviously don't want to interlace B and C plots (unless you're secretly Stephen King, in which case, go nuts!) Generally speaking, the simpler, the better.

          And Marcia and Chris are dead-on that you need that "raw" emotion and enthusiasm from the product creator that you'll only really capture by talking to that person. After all, what you're looking for in a story is to induce an emotional response in a prospect, relate to them, and gain their trust--like the gregarious guy on the barstool who seems like an old friend after a couple of pints. Authenticity is key, and the only way you're going to get that is by going to the product creator directly.

          You have to balance these concerns with the artistic elements of the story--things like pacing, voice, and even plot and story, limited as they may be in sales letter copy. You want to use descriptive words and images that engages all 5 senses, but leaves enough to the prospect's imagination that you don't inadvertently disqualify her or lose her interest. This takes a deft touch, for sure.

          My advice for the artistic aspect of it is to read a lot--sales letters, well-written articles, and yes, fiction. Notice the devices that these writers put into their stories to keep you glued to the edge of your seat. It'll help you tell a story that keeps the prospect scrolling like you have a secret cure for whatever ails them.

          I'm actually putting together a couple of ebooks on this exact topic right now, to help people tell more effective stories in their copy--a freebie and a more intense info product. Let me know if anyone's interested once they're done. Glad you brought this up, Niche Man!

          -D.J.
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          Copywriter/Storyteller
          www.djswriting.com

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          • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
            And Marcia and Chris are dead-on that you need that "raw" emotion and enthusiasm from the product creator that you'll only really capture by talking to that person.
            Funny, I didn't say anything about emotion or enthusiasm.

            That's not the essence of storytelling. One person's emotion isn't that different from another person's emotion. And good stories actually contain very little emotion. They are set up in such a way that the reader/listener/viewer just can't help but identify and feel. That's the art.

            Here the digging challenge has to do with what happened - finding the distinct, interesting details, reasons and occurrences that enable you to organize the facts into an appealing structure - a lucky accident, an irony, a come from behind, copying what worked, trying to please or disprove someone, etc.

            I used to coach budding magazine writers, and I had one client who was Italian American and had gotten access to one hour each with more than 20 prominent Italian Americans, people whose names you would know in the entertainment and business world. I was trying to help her shape the information she had gathered (gathered before coming to me) into 800-word columns.

            Unfortunately, however, she didn't have any experience or knack for interviewing, and all the information and quotes she'd gathered were superficial. There wasn't much to work with. The story ingredients were lacking.

            I don't know if you've read many celebrity interviews where the story ends up being as much about the interviewer as about the celebrity. That's a desperation tactic trying to cover up the fact that the writer didn't manage to uncover anything new or interesting. It's pretty common, even among writers with experience.

            On the other hand, if you listen to really good interviewers, like Terri Gross on NPR, you can hear them probing for what's below the surface, for what's not been said before. This doesn't necessarily mean deep dark secrets. It involves finding the threads that hold things together in people's lives.

            Marcia Yudkin
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            • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
              Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

              Funny, I didn't say anything about emotion or enthusiasm.

              That's not the essence of storytelling. One person's emotion isn't that different from another person's emotion. And good stories actually contain very little emotion. They are set up in such a way that the reader/listener/viewer just can't help but identify and feel. That's the art.

              Here the digging challenge has to do with what happened - finding the distinct, interesting details, reasons and occurrences that enable you to organize the facts into an appealing structure - a lucky accident, an irony, a come from behind, copying what worked, trying to please or disprove someone, etc.

              I used to coach budding magazine writers, and I had one client who was Italian American and had gotten access to one hour each with more than 20 prominent Italian Americans, people whose names you would know in the entertainment and business world. I was trying to help her shape the information she had gathered (gathered before coming to me) into 800-word columns.

              Unfortunately, however, she didn't have any experience or knack for interviewing, and all the information and quotes she'd gathered were superficial. There wasn't much to work with. The story ingredients were lacking.

              I don't know if you've read many celebrity interviews where the story ends up being as much about the interviewer as about the celebrity. That's a desperation tactic trying to cover up the fact that the writer didn't manage to uncover anything new or interesting. It's pretty common, even among writers with experience.

              On the other hand, if you listen to really good interviewers, like Terri Gross on NPR, you can hear them probing for what's below the surface, for what's not been said before. This doesn't necessarily mean deep dark secrets. It involves finding the threads that hold things together in people's lives.

              Marcia Yudkin
              On the subject of interviewing, I read an interview conducted by Daniel Craig, interviewing Thom Yorke. It really, really worked as it was more like a conversation.
              Thom Yorke - Page - Interview Magazine

              It's a different approach and I got to find out some interesting things that I'm not sure would have come out in a traditional interview with a generic interviewer. Perhaps one of the reasons for this is because Yorke and Craig felt like they were in this together: they're the group and it's not the artist vs the interviewer like it can be...

              Which is why I think it's a great idea to have someone from the same group conduct an interview. Interviewing a business owner as a business owner and not as a writer is a great way to make that connection, you've just got to work out how to do it...which is where our "tools of the trade" come in.
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            • Profile picture of the author DJ Gelner
              Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

              Funny, I didn't say anything about emotion or enthusiasm.

              That's not the essence of storytelling. One person's emotion isn't that different from another person's emotion. And good stories actually contain very little emotion. They are set up in such a way that the reader/listener/viewer just can't help but identify and feel. That's the art.

              Here the digging challenge has to do with what happened - finding the distinct, interesting details, reasons and occurrences that enable you to organize the facts into an appealing structure - a lucky accident, an irony, a come from behind, copying what worked, trying to please or disprove someone, etc.

              I used to coach budding magazine writers, and I had one client who was Italian American and had gotten access to one hour each with more than 20 prominent Italian Americans, people whose names you would know in the entertainment and business world. I was trying to help her shape the information she had gathered (gathered before coming to me) into 800-word columns.

              Unfortunately, however, she didn't have any experience or knack for interviewing, and all the information and quotes she'd gathered were superficial. There wasn't much to work with. The story ingredients were lacking.

              I don't know if you've read many celebrity interviews where the story ends up being as much about the interviewer as about the celebrity. That's a desperation tactic trying to cover up the fact that the writer didn't manage to uncover anything new or interesting. It's pretty common, even among writers with experience.

              On the other hand, if you listen to really good interviewers, like Terri Gross on NPR, you can hear them probing for what's below the surface, for what's not been said before. This doesn't necessarily mean deep dark secrets. It involves finding the threads that hold things together in people's lives.

              Marcia Yudkin
              Marcia, I think you may have stopped a bit short in reading what I wrote. The next sentence after the one you quoted is:

              "After all, what you're looking for in a story is to induce an emotional response in a prospect, relate to them, and gain their trust."

              Sounds pretty similar to:

              "They are set up in such a way that the reader/listener/viewer just can't help but identify and feel. That's the art."

              I think we're more on the same page than you might think...

              And absolutely you're right about the art of interviewing--I've interviewed countless athletes, entertainers, and businesspeople for both print and radio. Asking the right questions is a big part of a successful interview, but reading the subject based on his replies and coming up with engaging follow-ups to find those little accidents and ironies is probably an even bigger part of a successful interview--and separates the Terri Grosses of the world from the others.

              Improv skills are likely more important than a lot of folks realize--if you want to listen to some good, entertaining, but probing interviews, take a listen to Pete Holmes's podcast, "You Made it Weird." Non-threatening, yet determined, Pete pushes his guests in a fun, playful way, and gets them to tell a lot of things that have never seen the light of day; I can't tell you how many times guests say "I've never told this to anyone before" on his show...right before spilling their guts to thousands of listeners. What can I say--good interviews are good interviews!

              Nonetheless, at the end of the day, you still have to pull it all together in a way that does induce that prospect to feel the things you want them to feel, in a way that makes you (or your client) seem like an old friend who "gets" them. This builds trust and comfort with the prospect, while subtly introducing the idea that you are (or the client is) an authority within the niche.

              Love debating story theory, could do so all day--the important thing is that I think we agree on the big picture stuff--it's these little ins and outs and details that make it such an interesting, fascinating topic of discussion, and that help people learn how to tell better stories in their own copy.

              -DJ
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              D.J. Gelner
              Copywriter/Storyteller
              www.djswriting.com

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              • Profile picture of the author DJ Gelner
                Not to derail this thread TOO much into "how to conduct an interview" territory, but a quick clarification--by no means am I advocating trying to "trick," "trap," or "browbeat" interviewees--I can't think of anything worse. My mind immediately flashes back to these past Olympics, after Bode Miller improbably won (I think) the bronze, and the interviewer kept hammering away at him with questions about a dead relative again...and again...and again...until he finally shed a tear. That's the WRONG way to go about things.

                I much prefer the previously-mentioned Pete Holmes method: one of his favorite interview techniques is to share something about himself that connects with the interviewee in an unexpected way. Not only does the interviewee want to respond on a human level, but also on a subconscious level she often feels the need to reciprocate in kind. The result is some of the more genuine, personal interview responses I've heard--you can just see the emotion in their faces while only being able to hear them.

                Figure out how to elicit a similar emotional response from prospects in your copywriting--connect on that human level and offer them a solution to their problems you already "know" so well. That means you're on the right track...

                DJ
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                D.J. Gelner
                Copywriter/Storyteller
                www.djswriting.com

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  • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
    TNM,

    This is a little out there but my approach stemmed from asking young people about their tattoos. Stay with me.

    I use to think tattoos were stupid. But then my kids grew up and started getting tattoos. When I asked why would you do that to your body, their answer was always the same, "You wouldn't understand."

    Well not wanting to lose communications and a relationship with any of my children I said "then make me understand".

    Then out came the story as to why. That's when it hit me. Tattoos are not just ink on a body. They represent an event, a happening - so moving that the individual has to mark it down so as never to forget.

    Now when I see any youth, with "Tats" I come right out and ask "What's the story behind your tats?" As they begin telling the story, you can see and feel the deep emotion beginning to well up in them.

    From that experience I've found that ALL products and services have an entry point due to an event. An event with such impact that someone somewhere had to create it to prevent someone else from such an event or lack.

    It's not the product or services I look for but the event that provides the starting point. I would want to know all about the event. Then I would want to find others who were saved from such an event because they chose to buy the product or service(s).

    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    Most people agree a story is essential when it comes to marketing a product or service. But how do you "personally" find the story in a product or service?

    I know the common answer people will give is research or interview the creator.

    But could you go a little deeper if you can. For example, do you have a specific system, for example:
    Step #1. I do this? ...
    Step# 2. I do that? ...
    Step #3. I do ___________?
    -or-
    Do you wing it?

    How do you find things like the tone or theme or even the conflict when writing an engaging product story.

    Any other tips you can add will be greatly appreciated. Or just explain it in the form of a story

    Thanks in advance.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      In a sales letter what works best, the story at the begining or middle. Or does it matter?
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      TNM,

      This is a little out there but my approach stemmed from asking young people about their tattoos. Stay with me.

      I use to think tattoos were stupid. But then my kids grew up and started getting tattoos. When I asked why would you do that to your body, their answer was always the same, "You wouldn't understand."

      Well not wanting to lose communications and a relationship with any of my children I said "then make me understand".

      Then out came the story as to why. That's when it hit me. Tattoos are not just ink on a body. They represent an event, a happening - so moving that the individual has to mark it down so as never to forget.

      Now when I see any youth, with "Tats" I come right out and ask "What's the story behind your tats?" As they begin telling the story, you can see and feel the deep emotion beginning to well up in them.

      From that experience I've found that ALL products and services have an entry point due to an event. An event with such impact that someone somewhere had to create it to prevent someone else from such an event or lack.

      It's not the product or services I look for but the event that provides the starting point. I would want to know all about the event. Then I would want to find others who were saved from such an event because they chose to buy the product or service(s).
      Now that's very cool.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      TNM,

      This is a little out there but my approach stemmed from asking young people about their tattoos. Stay with me.

      I use to think tattoos were stupid. But then my kids grew up and started getting tattoos. When I asked why would you do that to your body, their answer was always the same, "You wouldn't understand."

      Well not wanting to lose communications and a relationship with any of my children I said "then make me understand".

      Then out came the story as to why. That's when it hit me. Tattoos are not just ink on a body. They represent an event, a happening - so moving that the individual has to mark it down so as never to forget.

      Now when I see any youth, with "Tats" I come right out and ask "What's the story behind your tats?" As they begin telling the story, you can see and feel the deep emotion beginning to well up in them.

      From that experience I've found that ALL products and services have an entry point due to an event. An event with such impact that someone somewhere had to create it to prevent someone else from such an event or lack.

      It's not the product or services I look for but the event that provides the starting point. I would want to know all about the event. Then I would want to find others who were saved from such an event because they chose to buy the product or service(s).
      Spot on, man. ANYONE can talk to me if we start the convo about my/their tattoos.

      Mine are the story of my life and a reminder to always be true to me. They started several interesting convos with fellow copywriters at a seminar I attended last year.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    How do you find things like the tone or theme or even the conflict when writing an engaging product story.

    Any other tips you can add will be greatly appreciated. Or just explain it in the form of a story

    Thanks in advance.
    A lot of times I find it in the researching part of a project. Between the client questionnaire, interviewing them (if needed), and doing some target market research, I can usually uncover these things in the same language the target market will use.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Ideally...

    Your prospects are a part of your tribe.

    I've said this here before, but it bears repeating...

    Yourr story is their story.

    Meaning...

    When you describe the circumstances you went through, you're talking about their experience.

    So prospects will SEE themselves in your story... your copy.

    If you can accomplish that; if you can get people to see themselves in your story, you've got 'em.

    Now, if you're selling... say... a supplment and you have no real connection with it, you didn't create it, you really don't even know too much about what's in it... your story is irrelevant. Sure, we can make something up. But that's lame.

    One of my current clients embodies the product he's created... and selling. Interviewing him, getting him to tell his story... and writing the copy is an absolute pleasure, because it's so REAL... RAW. Maybe too raw. But that's okay. I want him in all his blunt force comments.

    Because the key to storytelling is...

    GETTING YOUR CLIENT'S VOICE.

    When you interview them, pay attention to the words they use, their natural inflections, where they put the most emphasis in wanting to impact people's lives. That's where the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow.

    Personally...

    If you run into someone who doesn't really have a story, I'd run. I'd tell you why, but my coffee's getting cold.

    ;-)

    Marrk
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  • Profile picture of the author TJoseph
    It's a nice little trick that pick up artists usually teach to their students.(Pick Up is ALL about staying interesting enough to your 'potential prospect' so they see you as valuable - kinda like selling products to your target market right?

    Find conversational hook points. Something interesting that stands out about them.

    In PU/conversation banter this could be: a necklace, item of clothing or even tats

    What about your target market?
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by TJoseph View Post

      It's a nice little trick that pick up artists usually teach to their students.(Pick Up is ALL about staying interesting enough to your 'potential prospect' so they see you as valuable - kinda like selling products to your target market right?

      Find conversational hook points. Something interesting that stands out about them.

      In PU/conversation banter this could be: a necklace, item of clothing or even tats

      What about your target market?
      Small businesses in extremely competitive markets.
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