Crickets In The Copywriting Section

splitTest

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

No, I'm not a copywriter , but I've set the goal of studying copywriting so I can be a better client.

Based on your other threads, I would've sworn you were a working copywriter...

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Alex Cohen

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

This section offers some of the best free copywriting advice on the planet. Advice most others charge big money for. So, you'd think it would be overflowing with visits. Especially from people who come to a marketing forum to learn how to make money, yet it's not. Does that surprise anyone but me?

Your surprise reveals a misunderstanding of the Warrior Forum's primary demographic.

No doubt you've noticed that the WSO sub forum gets the most visitors by far. Know why? Go through the WSOs and see what's for sale. Mostly magic buttons.

Magic button buyers don't want to learn copywriting. They want to push a button and get rich.

Serious marketers and copywriters represent only a small percentage of the Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

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Cam Connor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Your surprise reveals a misunderstanding of the Warrior Forum's primary demographic.

No doubt you've noticed that the WSO sub forum gets the most visitors by far. Know why? Go through the WSOs and see what's for sale. Mostly magic buttons.

Magic button buyers don't want to learn copywriting. They want to push a button and get rich.

Serious marketers and copywriters represent only a small percentage of the Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

I must say Alex, that's a fantastic and accurate post.

And yea, very few marketers in general ever come close to understanding the value of Copywriting. That's why something like only 1 in 10k people who try their hand at marketing actually succeed and go full-time.

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The Niche Man

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Your surprise reveals a misunderstanding of the Warrior Forum's primary demographic.

No doubt you've noticed that the WSO sub forum gets the most visitors by far. Know why? Go through the WSOs and see what's for sale. Mostly magic buttons.

Magic button buyers don't want to learn copywriting. They want to push a button and get rich.

Serious marketers and copywriters represent only a small percentage of the Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

Yes, there's a lot of magic button buyers I admit, but still if you go to the internet marketing section, the offline marketing section, the seo section they all average thousands of visitors a week. And judging by the questions and answers in those sections, people are willing to do more than just push a button to be successful.

Many of the questions are very detailed along with the answers.

Plus, out of 700,000 members I'd figure more would see the need to learn or at least be familiar with good copywriting techniques.

Maybe because your advice is free, many discount its value, you think? Because one thing the Warrior Forum has more than anything are skeptics. Unless they're already presold, even if your services or help is free you often have to sell it in here. Weird but true.

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Alex Cohen

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

Yes, there's a lot of magic button buyers I admit, but still if you go to the internet marketing section, the offline marketing section, the seo section they all average thousands of visitors a week. And judging by the questions and answers in those sections, people are willing to do more than just push a button to be successful.

Many of the questions are very detailed along with the answers.

Plus, out of 700,000 members I'd figure more would see the need to learn or at least be familiar with good copywriting techniques.

Maybe because your advice is free, many discount its value, you think? Because one thing the Warrior Forum has more than anything are skeptics. Unless they're already presold, even if your services or help is free you often have to sell it in here. Weird but true.

If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Meanwhile, WSO sellers are making fortunes selling to the primary Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

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The Niche Man

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Meanwhile, WSO sellers are making fortunes selling to the primary Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

I'm not saying I don't believe you, far from it. I'm just suggesting that WSO (push button riches segment) doesn't represent the whole. There's still thousands who come here who don't subscribe to the get rich quick, push button riches mentality. They really want to succeed and they come here to learn the right way.

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mrmouse

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

I'm not saying I don't believe you, far from it. I'm just suggesting that WSO (push button riches segment) doesn't represent the whole. There's still thousands who come here who don't subscribe to the get rich quick, push button riches mentality. They really want to succeed and they come here to learn the right way.

If I may jump into your conversation. I believe that you and Alex are both correct. In regards to the people who are willing to do what it takes to be successful. I believe that the main forum and SEO are both something that beginners can jump into. To even know what a copywriter is, you need to have studied some of the basics of marketing.

Marketing 102 vs 101.

It is much easier to focus on strategy, and what do I need to do first. HOW do I do it (where the copywriting comes in) comes later. Based on your experience, do you agree?

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The Niche Man

10 years ago

Originally Posted by mrmouse

I believe that you and Alex are both correct. In regards to the people who are willing to do what it takes to be successful. I believe that the main forum and SEO are both something that beginners can jump into. To even know what a copywriter is, you need to have studied some of the basics of marketing.

Marketing 102 vs 101.

It is much easier to focus on strategy, and what do I need to do first. HOW do I do it (where the copywriting comes in) comes later. Based on your experience, do you agree?

You make valid points, especially about the super new beginners. Many serious marketers (not counting the instant 'push-button-riches' crowd) join affiliate programs, get buried in SEO techniques, finding a niche, or creating a blog among other things.

Therefore, most don't see or "think" they have a need to know copywriting techniques - for the most part. But the thousands of others with hundreds or thousands of post (out of 800,000 members) who ignore this section is why I scratch my head.

Now I've learned to look at it more philosophically and just say ... Their Loss!

I'm sure some may even be my competitors in some area. So, I no longer sweat it like I did when I first started this thread.

However, whenever a newbie asks me the places they should start in the Warrior Forum I always include the copywriting section in my must go list.

I went back and located the article I ran across that sparked my desire to start this thread. Although I don't agree with everything the author said, I believe it reflects a basic knee-jerk attitude about copywriters as far as the general public goes.
Agree or disagree here it is ... "Why Does The World Hate Copywriters?"

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Raydal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

No doubt you've noticed that the WSO sub forum gets the most visitors by far. Know why? Go through the WSOs and see what's for sale. Mostly magic buttons.

Magic button buyers don't want to learn copywriting. They want to push a button and get rich.

LOL. I think those letters were written by copywriters. So you are saying
that most people prefer to read the product of copywriting than about the
process?

-Ray Edwards

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mrmouse

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Your surprise reveals a misunderstanding of the Warrior Forum's primary demographic.

No doubt you've noticed that the WSO sub forum gets the most visitors by far. Know why? Go through the WSOs and see what's for sale. Mostly magic buttons.

Magic button buyers don't want to learn copywriting. They want to push a button and get rich.

Serious marketers and copywriters represent only a small percentage of the Warrior Forum demo.

Alex

I have to agree with Alex. Less than 5% of people in any area of life will ever be successful. It's not because only 5% of people are born with talent. Rather, I believe it is because only 5% of people are looking for what really works, and how they can begin to learn and what to implement to make it work. The other 95% just want something like this, "ok, just tell me the one thing I need to do to get rich so I can do it".

And of the 95% who buy the magic button, only 5% will implement it. And of THAT 5% only 5% of them will persevere when the first setback occurs. And so on and so on.

Additionally, most of the people on the WF likely don't understand marketing well enough (yet) to know WHY they need to hire a good copywriter or to appreciate the value of a copywriter. Many likely don't even know what a copywriter is yet.

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Mark 99

10 years ago

One of the main problems I see is too many business owners fall in love with their own products and forget about one of the most important things... The Copy. On the other hand the smart business people see the value in copy and how it can dramatically change the bottom line of a business.

You can have the best product on the planet but if you don't have the means to sell it then it's all pointless. All about educating the customer on how copy can impact how much money you make.
Just my thoughts...

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JohnRussell

10 years ago

What's represented here is hard work.

People don't want hard work.

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1 reply

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splitTest 10 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnRussell

What's represented here is hard work.

People don't want hard work.

Plus, most people who are actual pros try to stay busy... Which is why you'll see some regulars absent for a while, then popping up again...
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- JohnRussell 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by splitTest
  
  Plus, most people who are actual pros try to stay busy... Which is why you'll see some regulars absent for a while, then popping up again...
  
  That's true of some pros but not all.
  
  Busy people can and do pop in and post. It's a break from the real work for some.
  
  Thanks
  
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BrianMcLeod

10 years ago

One thing that drives many away from this CW subform is all the griping, whining, in-fighting and gutter sniping that happens almost constantly.

It used to be worse - much worse - so I'm not bitching.

Just sayin'...

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Brian McLeod

Direct Response Copywriting

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Raydal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

I personally feel guilty asking for free advice sometimes, I'm now in a position to pay for copy critiques, memberships and other copywriting services and I do. But I didn't start there. It all started here, with the free advice, tips and hard-nosed critiques I got a few years ago.

Some years ago I made a post addressing the issue of the help
that copywriters offer compared to other fields. No one ask
for help with designing a banner, or writing an article or creating
an app. Advice is dispense on many subjects but the work is
not done for you.

That's what copywriters do when they offer a critique--they tell
you what to change to improve the copy. This is a service that
many sell, but they offer it free here.

My point is that no other section quite compares. You may ask
about a video, but you wouldn't get a response with the video
done for you.

It's refreshing to see someone appreciate that.

-Ray Edwards

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JamesDLayton

10 years ago

"I don't need a copywriter. I don't need to learn copy. I already have some words on my sales page. Any words will do. I wrote words for free. Don't need expensive words."

^^^^ the prevailing thought for some marketers.

James

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"We are what we think about
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One of the easiest transformations I ever undertook as a copywriter was reading that quote every day.

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John Lloyd

10 years ago

Not to to be Captain Obvious here...but I don't think most people (even many businessmen) have a clue what copywriting is.

Marketing? Yes. Advertising? Sure.

But if you tell the average joe you're a copywriter, their mind might drift to 'copyright' before drawing a complete blank followed by a confused, "huh?". At least, that's been my experience..

When you live and breathe copywriting, it's easy to forget that it's actually a rather obscure profession.

edit: I see mrmouse beat me to it.

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The Niche Man

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Lloyd

When you live and breathe copywriting, it's easy to forget that it's actually a rather obscure profession.
edit: I see mrmouse beat me to it.

That's a good point, you're like a "ghost" writer for advertising. If the ad takes off, the business or owner gets all the glory and credit, which is fine I suppose, because they paid for it.

But I've seldom if ever heard a business owner publicly say I'd like to thank my copywriter. But I've heard them thank everyone from the vice president to the workers at the bottom - even their competitors in some cases.

It's like the person who actually wrote the words, organized them like soldiers and brought the people in the store is ignored ... like a ghost to the general public.

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John Lloyd

10 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

That's a good point, you're like a "ghost" writer for advertising. If the ad takes off, the business or owner gets all the glory and credit, which is fine I suppose, because they paid for it.

But I've seldom if ever heard a business owner publicly say I'd like to thank my copywriter. But I've heard them thank everyone from the vice president to the workers at the bottom - even their competitors in some cases.

It's like the person who actually wrote the words, organized them like soldiers and brought the people in the store is ignored ... like a ghost to the general public.

Yea, ghost is a good way to put it. I'm perfectly OK with the anonymity though.

In truth, I'm far too vain to care about other people taking credit for my work.

I know the role I played. Whether others acknowledge it or not is neither here nor there.

At the end of the month, your paycheck is really the only recognition that counts. And for a good copywriter, that's a tidy sum.

Thanks

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Crickets In The Copywriting Section

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