| Author |
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Paul Myers |
 Posted - 10/14/2006 : 01:48:51
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Marlon Sanders does "JayWalking." This is really fun.
http://www.myredfactor.com
Nice bit. Works on all kinds of levels. Anyone know a camera that'll give those kinds of video results?
Paul
PS: No, that's not an affiliate link. ;) |
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John Gottshall |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 06:38:40
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| I thought it was stupid to be honest. A very unoriginal viral marketing idea. Is he hurting for money or something? |
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Paul Myers |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 15:33:41
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You think having fun is stupid? Okay. An opinion. I can see a lot going for that one, depending on how the follow-up works.
I'm a bit confused, though, as to why originality of the base idea is a prerequisite for effectiveness or intelligence. For instance, the crusading guru-stomper, debunking myths and protecting virtuous newbies from the evil "gooroos," is hardly original. There are a dozen of 'em in here alone. How's that workin' for ya?
It's been a while seen I've seen an original *tactic.* Some nice implementations, nut tactics are getting stale.
Paul
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colmodwyer |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:04:33
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Didn't like the video*; I'd imagine the curiosity factor will pay dividends for them though.
*Was expecting it to be funny...
Colm. |
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:15:24
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| I couldn't finish it. Marlon's voice is just irritating to me. Sorry. |
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Rod Cortez |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:22:34
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I like Marlon, learned a lot from him. The video, not so much. :P
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Jason Dolman |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:33:11
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Paul,
Thank you.
I agree ... absolutely hilarious.
Just Marlon saying "Bro" to the kids
was worth the price of admission.
... and the first guy talking about
singing Red is Back - youknowhatimsayin?
Ya'll go cop that ... it's for real.
Too much.
Thanks again Paul.
Jason
P.S. It doesn't matter if you like it
or not ... you did what Marlon wanted
you to do the second you posted here.
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:46:36
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Paul, why are you so intolerant of others' opinions of things like this? If I didn't know any better, I would think that you posted this as some sort of plug for or JV with Marlon.
Plain and simple, it is a dumb video. That is my opinion but I bet most will agree. It's just not interesting at all and really seems to serve no purpose other than to create a viral marketing effect for the benefit of his business. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not interesting, man. It would have been one thing if it actually was funny, but it isn't. It's just silly. Some people just don't like grown men acting like asses and trying to act younger than they really are, especially in such a useless video as "The Red Factor" where the only point seems to be to promote the color Rred and try to make a new fashin trend or something around the color red. Not very interesting and I doubt very much that the fashion world will be looking to Marlon for any suggestions anyway. It's jus a pointless video of some people looking stupid and holding up a sign and wearing red clothing and accessories.
Although in the IM world everyone has at least heard of the name "Marlon Sanders", he is not really widely known in the world, yet he is trying to make it seem like he is in his movie. Most people don't care about IM and Internet business and I doubt very much that they know what the "red Factor" is. They will probably, most likely, think it has something to do with Bill O'Rielly's Radio Factor or TV Show "The Factor". And they probably think that Marlon Sanders is some new Red Lobster dish. LOL.
Is there something to learn form this video or this project, from an IM standpoint? Maybe, but it's just so dumb, silly and annoying that it really loses my interest and obviously the interest of others. I'm sure Marlon has done many other things that we can learn from that are more interesting. Although I wouldn't know because I don't follow Marlon Sanders and his stuff (and from the looks of it, I ain't missin' much as far as entertainment goes anyway).
Sorry you feel that we should all like it and agree with your opinion of it being funny or even interesting to any degree. What a boring world it would be if we all thought this way or if we all thought that such a boring video was "funny". Hollywood would have been bankrupt eons ago if this is what they would have produced as "funny".
But it is all opinion. And you are entitled to your own just as much as I and others are entitled to our own opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by jdolman
It doesn't matter if you like it
or not ... you did what Marlon wanted
you to do the second you posted here.
And that's just about the only real reason for this thread as far as I can see. |
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 16:52:47
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I just realized that many here will not like my last post becuase it doesn't jive with how htey think and therefore I am not contributing to the "herd mantality" that will make this viral marketing effort a success, so let me try a gain...
WOW! What GREAT and hilarious video, man!!!!!
WOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Go Marlon, Go Marlon, Go Marlon!!!!
I just sent the video link to 10 people becuase I think it soooooo worth watching, bro!
Keep it up Marlon, bro. You, too, Paul.
BTW, RED IS IN, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love red so much that I just had to write my post in red, too. |
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marlon |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 17:50:27
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Hi,
Guess not everyone has the same sense of humor. I thought the people were very funny. And a number of people on my MySpace site and blog thought so also. Although not everyone.
Paul received nothing for his post. He is NOT a JV partner. I just emailed him and told him It thought he might like the video because it's funny.
On the money issue, we just got an office and we're hiring more people. |
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 17:51:52
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i too received a link via a newsletter today and clicked on it, but i closed the target window after about 60-90 seconds or so. hey, i tried. but 60-90 seconds in i had no reason to continue giving it my attention.
i closed the window because there was nothing which spoke to me; it was all about *them*. hard to get viral without making a connection to the target audience.
i found it self-referencing--perhaps even self-indulgent?... if that makes sense.
just my .02
best,
renee |
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junker86 |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:05:59
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| Yay, lets go re-hash the same boring ideas about success everyone already knows and call it something new. Let's see....Jasmine Formula, The Blue Documents, The Violet Principles....Wait I got it, The Red Factor! |
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John Hostler |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:06:09
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Marlon has been around the block and could probably wipe the floor with me, given all that he has seen and done.
Now that I have that out of the way...
I think if the part where there was "explanation" about what was about to take place got chopped off...if it was just a bunch of people doing wacky stuff and talking about "Red Is Back", while wearing their red, there might have been a viral kick there.
Especially if it was leaked with out any fan fare or mention of trying to get buzz. Perhaps by us arguing the merits of the video we're already doing what we're supposed to? "Hey list members, is this a good buzz video or not?"
Hmmm, some things to consider...
Cheers,
John Hostler
PS - I will be wathing this campaign with interest to see how it plays out. |
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Simon0804 |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:30:14
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I thought it was great how Marlon and Matt went out and took videos of how they got the pictures to create the next buzz for The Red Factor that he plans on launching soon. I thought it was amusing, but maybe you have to have some Southern blood to get it. 
I can't wait to see what he does with it now. I enjoy how he is sharing his pre-launch tactics with his newsletter subscribers. Go Marlon!
Beth Freeman |
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TimPhelan |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:30:58
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Comedy is hard to do. Didn't work for me, but nice try Marlon anyways. Hope the launch goes well.
Tim |
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marlon |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:38:19
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Hi,
If someone doesn't think I'm funny or have good fashion sense, I can relate. Although you don't speak at 120, $3,000 one-day seminars, and speak in Kaui, Bermuda, Australia, UK, and every major city in the U.S. if you suck too much.
But what I will take exception to is the issue of original thinking vs. rehashing stuff.
If you don't think I can and will bring original thinking to the table then you know nothing about me nor my history in this business.
For the record, I'm NOT the one rehashing stuff. Fact is, a fair amount of stuff out there is a rehash of what was original when I first taught it...
I dare say Allen will verify much or most of the following and anyone else who has been around since the old days when the hot topic on Warriors was how to spam. Or before that when stripping emails from AOL classifieds and sending offers wasn't even known as spam.
When I first codified and taught the 12-step copywriting formula, that was new and fresh. There was NO 12-step sales letter formula before me, although I got the idea of codifying it into steps from Bob Serling back when I was a copywriter for Phil Kratzer.
When I first help Scott Covert develop the concept that he shared with Mizel who then dubbed it "name squeeze" it was then an original idea, (Scott is on my MySpace...if you don't believe me, email him. Or ask Mizel where he got the idea from).
When I first developed the system to get testimonials in an automated way, it was then original (check it out....at that time ain't no one else had 100 pages of testimonials.)
When I first wrote in Amazing Formula about the idea of using audio for testimonials on a web site, ain't no one had ever written about that.
When I stood up at Carlletti's seminar and publicly endorsed 1 shopping cart and George Tran (the founder), ain't no one was talking about it then.
When I first taught how to increase response by preceding a sales email with a free gift (and had the research to prove it) ain't no one else had taught that. Ask Yanik where he first saw THAT idea.
Oh, and ask around who the first person was to teach the 2-page web site model (against all conventional wisdom). Although I'm sure Allen was a big factor there also. And I got the idea originally from Mizel, Corey and my discussions with Mahaney at the Boulder Summit. I still have emails in my archives telling me how full of it I was for teaching something as CRAZY as that, vs. creating content sites.
Heck, check the Associateprograms.com forum archive and see how I got blasted for being the first person (or at least one of the very first) to provide popups for affiliates. That was practically considered blasphemy by some.
And more modern day, Push Button Letters. The first. Marketing Dashboard. The first. Action Grid. The first.
Oh, the modern format virtually everyone uses for download pages? Yeah, we innovated that to help decrease service, although I first got the idea of making it gui from Stephen Mahaney. I stil remember how my eyes popped at the Boulder Summit when he showed how he provided his newsletter in like 6 different downloadable digital formats!
Wow! What a bombshell that was. No one believed you could sell a "digital" product and get paid for it. Or not get ripped off.
You may not even agree with all the above statements. And you can say a lot of things about me. But one thing you can't say is that I don't innovate and bring the cutting edge.
You may not like my voice, my dress or my sense of humor. But if you don't respect what I've contributed to this industry, then you don't know JACK about the history of how you got where the hell you are and who the ()#__*_)) helped you get here.
Terry Dean will tell you that. Allen will tell you that. And some of the Warriors who have been around all these years will tell you that.
Marlon
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Paul Myers |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:40:18
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quote:
Paul, why are you so intolerant of others' opinions of things like this? If I didn't know any better, I would think that you posted this as some sort of plug for or JV with Marlon.
Intolerant of opinions? I don't believe I am. I frequently question opinions that are put forth as fact, but that's a different thing altogether. I think the example in this thread is one of those. I asked why the author equated unoriginal with stupid, and gave an example of an area where it isn't.
Yes, Marlon is a friend of mine. No, as you assume, that wasn't the reason. If I plugged everything done by my friends, I'd be banned for flooding the forum with ads. I am friends (or on friendly terms) with a pretty big chunk of the "guru" set. Joel Comm, for instance, about whose launch emails I recently had some rather sharp and unpleasant things to say here.
I thought it was really funny. I appreciate the kind of humor involved. Very real and personal and positive. I thought the video did an excellent job of branding Marlon as a good guy, with a sense of fun. That's important in a "cold" medium. I thought the presentation itself was technically very good. Clear images and audio, and a nice continuity.
Will it work? Who knows? Despite John's comments, trying new things doesn't mean you're broke or need money. It means you're willing to step out there and risk looking silly to find the stuff that works. Most new ideas don't work, but they often lead to things that do. Those steps are how industries evolve and stay fresh.
A lot of what we take for granted now is known because Marlon, and others like him, took those risks.
I think there's a lot to learn by watching that stuff. And those are the things I think people can learn from that video, and the page surrounding it.
quote:
But it is all opinion. And you are entitled to your own just as much as I and others are entitled to our own opinions.
Of course. I don't recall ever telling anyone they weren't entitled to an opinion. I've told a few people (not in this thread) that their opinions were meaningless because they didn't have enough knowledge or experience in the topic at issue to have one worth valuing.
When there are differences of opinion, the proper approach is to question them. Ask for facts, look at experience, and judge for yourself.
I frequently challenge peoples' opinions. That's generally a useful thing. Refusing to consider those challenges is a sign of intolerance. Challenging them on fact is not.
All opinions are not created equal.
Paul
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Steve Iser |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:52:33
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| Wasn't funny, but definitely gave me an idea. |
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TimPhelan |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 18:53:39
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Marlon, don't let these guys get to you. Most of us realize how influential a marketer you have been and still are. |
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:07:54
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i was not trying to "get to" anyone. just offering my feedback on a forum post here. i quite thought it might be appreciated.
best,
renee |
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TimPhelan
Marlon, don't let these guys get to you. Most of us realize how influential a marketer you have been and still are.
Sure we do. Marlon's got a track record that is quite remarkable and it looks like he'll be the first to remind you of that LOL!
What does that have to do with whether or not we like the video?
Jeez, the slack the guru's get is amazing. I've seen it here time and again with the "name" guys getting away with stuff that no-names get slammed for. I guess its one of the benefits of getting known.
Anyway, I don't know for what purpose this video was created but I doubt it will accomplish it, whatever it was.
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dougp |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:14:36
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People will always have opinions some will like things and some will not, thats fine because that what makes everyone unique. However just because an idea is something you dont like doesnt mean you should call it stupid, alot of my college friends think internet marketing is stupid but everyone is entitled to their opinions. After my studies they drink and party while i work on my online business. People love to critcize other people efforts and shoot them down when they are not attempting anything themselves. Marlon, interesting concept for thinking outside the box.
Doug |
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Paul Myers |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:17:19
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quote:
I've seen it here time and again with the "name" guys getting away with stuff that no-names get slammed for. I guess its one of the benefits of getting known.
Actually, it's one of the benefits of having done something and being able to prove what you're saying is from experience and not theory.
A distinction that's often lost on some folks.
Paul
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Trader54 |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:18:41
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Hysterical video???
Well I got sucked in, a note at the side said "Watch ALL the video because you don't wanna miss several people at the end!"
I watched the video till the end, not sure who it was that that I didnt want to miss.
I wonder if the copy about the product will be as misleading? I definitely won't get
sucked into buying it. |
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TimPhelan |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:23:35
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quote:
I've seen it here time and again with the "name" guys getting away with stuff that no-names get slammed for.
How about when the no-names (CMX322) slam someone like Marlon. Read what he/she says: "grown men acting like asses", "trying to act younger than they really are" , "looking stupid", "dumb, silly and annoying" and tell me who is slamming who. What the hell has CMX ever done anyways besides promoting an affiliate auto responder in his/her signature? |
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Jason Dolman |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:24:01
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Marlon,
You're the last person who needs to defend
themselves, especially to the detractors
here.
Your reputation proceeds you and you
shouldn't even bat an eye at the mud being
slung at you by the "haters".
I personally found the video funny and
thought it was a unique approach to get
people totally outside of IM to be involved.
Normally, I would wish someone success on
a launch such as yours, but in your case
its an inevitable conclusion.
Jason
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jake5 |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:26:43
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Hey, my opinion counts, too, even though I am an old fart who calls people "bro" (especially my two brothers).
I have to say that I like the video. I like the concept, I like the buzz. In fact, I first met Marlon at Morgan Westerman's buzz workshop in San Diego. Marlon scared the bejesus out of me when he started his rant up at the front of the room...and then I realized he was one of the true originals and there was a lot I could learn from him.
So...
Don't underestimate Marlon, and don't underestimate this campaign. I'm going to be watching and learning. I'm also going to be participating, since I'm darn sure it's going to be a fun ride.
Thanks, Paul, for bringing it to my attention. And Marlon, keep on rolling, bro.
Jack |
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:44:20
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quote:
Originally posted by TimPhelan
How about when the no-names (CMX322) slam someone like Marlon. Read what he/she says: "grown men acting like asses", "trying to act younger than they really are" , "looking stupid", "dumb, silly and annoying" and tell me who is slamming who.
cxm was definitely wrong in his "review" of the video. He was overly harsh and deserves to get called out for it.
quote:
Originally posted by TimPhelan
What the hell has CMX ever done anyways besides promoting an affiliate auto responder in his/her signature?
You're weakening your arguement now by doing the same thing you chastised him for.
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 19:53:28
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cxm having ANOTHER bash?... well he did it to me for no reason the other week..I don't know why..but
What do I learn from it?
You make yourself look daft when you bash someone...so why do it?
Your opinion gets respected far more when you don't bash, but give an honest yet fair (meaning respecting) those who you cast opinion on!
As for the video Marlon... won't comment.. I am deaf.. cant lipread you easy lol... ;o)
Take care,
Rob
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Hakim |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 20:27:03
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Video is many orders of magnitude more difficult to accomplish successfully than audio, or web sales page copy for that matter.
The psychological underpinnings of most people is that they have watched full professional production TV as "video" all of their lives. So, when they watch any video (including IM viral campaign teasers), in essence they are unconsciously comparing that to CBS News, MTV, and Seinfeld and similar popular shows.
The production capabilities for anyone to produce more or less broadcast quality video has collapsed in price tremendously in the past year especially. In fact, the actual digital video camera used to shoot "24" costs less than $6,000. Just a decade ago, this kind of equipment cost millions, literally. We use equipment that cost under $500.
The point to be made, is that just because one can afford a high quality triple-chip video camera, does not necessarily mean that they are going to produce even fifteen seconds of compelling video.
Personally, I totally missed any point to Marlon’s video. I watched about a minute and clicked off. Some may like it, but for me it just was incomprehensible.
Humour, in public, and to an otherwise unfamiliar audience, is just the toughest thing on earth to pull off. Is Marlon funny? In his seminars, in e-mails, at the bar – oh yes he is! Probably, hilarious!
Will he generally be perceived as a riotous comedian in a series of random scenes in this brief video? Not likely. Anyone other than those who know him personally, will not think so much of this video. The comments so far bear this out.
However, having said that, and knowing Marlon Sander's history in marketing, he'll probably make various adjustments and improve his offering going forward.
But everyone attempting video today needs to realize that if all you needed was a $400 camera and a goofy crew, then all of the network shows would not need 200 people to produce 30 minutes of video. Read those five minutes of scrolling credits at the end of every show. There are literally HUNDREDS of people required to make just 30 minutes of video!
In this light, it really is just unrealistic to expect that every marketer is going to be able by himself and a friend or two (with no professional skills in any aspect of video) to churn out irresistible video at will.
ACTING is a profession --- quite different and distinct from internet marketing. SCRIPT WRITING is a profession for video is quite different from writing as sales letter; and VIDEO PRODUCTION is a profession that requires enormous knowledge and skill.
One needs all of these at a professional level to pull off an extended video teaser campaign. There are reasons (hinted at above) why a brief TV commercials cost around $2 million a minute to produce (not for the air time).
We are very near to the end of the "gee-wiz-look-at-me” phase of online video. Most of the web-cam style video on sites is embarrassing, even agonizing, especially when we are “treated” to come along for a real "inside look" at the guru’s life –- the family reunion, see his pets, his wedding and similar things. Don’t you remember all the bad jokes about “getting out the home movies” to show when company comes over?
I can count on the fingers of less than one hand the number of marketers who have produced online video for marketing that impresses me. And to match that is going to require great scripts, great equipment, and most of all great actors, or people skilled at presenting themselves professionally and convincingly.
It would be infinitely superior if one does not have professional experience and skills in video production, to hire a firm that specializes in taking your marketing info, add professional actors, and provide gorgeous, compelling video. That is better than a darkly lit web cam from a bedroom, that looks and sounds like someone hiding out from the law.
I suppose most of the Warriors starting out with very limited funds will be able to resist their own “shot” at making a video clip. But just remember, if people do not respond, it is not their fault. It is your fault for not realizing that they are already conditioned as to what “TV” is supposed to be like. And, in comparison to their “favorite” shows, most marketers are only making fools or themselves, or worse, injuring their own reputations.
This thread shows literally the unfolding of online marketing --- and for those who care to reflect about it honestly -- contains some magnificent lessons.
Hakim Chishti
Advanced Marketing Institute |
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 20:27:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Myers
quote:
I've seen it here time and again with the "name" guys getting away with stuff that no-names get slammed for. I guess its one of the benefits of getting known.
Actually, it's one of the benefits of having done something and being able to prove what you're saying is from experience and not theory.
A distinction that's often lost on some folks.
Paul
the distinction was not lost at all.
i just offered some feedback on your forum post.
best,
renee |
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 21:00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Myers
Actually, it's one of the benefits of having done something and being able to prove what you're saying is from experience and not theory.
A distinction that's often lost on some folks.
<Leaving Marlon behind and speaking in generalities>
What I often observe is the "Authority" influence overriding common sense. If you want to talk about losing something; how about objectivity?
Just because someone "famous" (and I use that term loosely) does something doesn't make it right or good. Sure, you can get a lot of mileage out of a name but ultimately, you have to produce good products.
A good name can be destroyed with the release of one bad product.
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John Rogers |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 21:31:04
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I would never ever ever question Marlon's judgement, and I have nothing but respect for the man and his contributions to the industry. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe I'm hypercritical. But if the video didn't have a big name attached to it, I likely would've clicked away fairly early. I just didn't think it was that funny. I didn't even laugh.
I'm not speaking as someone who thinks he has earned the right to be critical of anyone with even half the credentials of Marlon; because I haven't. I'm speaking as Joe Nobody watching the video based on a recommendation that it was funny. I just didn't think it was.
But people are talking about it, and it's generating arguments in forums. So it's likely accomplishing the intended affect.
On the other hand, I watched some Jim Edwards videos over the past week that I found genuinely humorous.
Maybe it's just a matter of taste...
John |
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 21:38:48
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I thought the video was funny and applaud Marlon for at least "rocking the boat" of this copycat-stricken market and at least having the courage to try something NEW.
The sad but true reality is there are very few innovators in Internet Marketing. There are very few people that are actually coming up with new ideas and tactics. It's actually the OPPOSITE... everyone and their brother sees or hears about the slightest thing that 'worked' and they clone it, copy it, and BEAT IT TO DEATH.
What's ironic is, most of the time people copy these tactics without realizing *WHY* they originally worked. And because most Internet marketers lack real marketing skills and abilities, they never SEE the FUNDAMENTAL things behind marketing moves and techniques and therefore scratch their heads when they find out they can't make the SAME thing work.
And marketers today have NO IDEA how *EASY* they have it because of guys like Marlon that paved the way to figure out so many ways to successfully sell stuff online. Marketers today can buy a few solid courses and have a real chance of making money in a matter of DAYS.
Guys like me started online in the early 1990s and took YEARS to turn a profit. Because there were no manuals and how-to courses and videos that told you exactly what steps to take that would get a positive response.
But, Marlon, you know as well as I do (and Paul as well) that the guy who comes up with stuff first is the guy that ends up with the arrows in his back. (Or whatever that old saying is.)
Paul was one of my autoresponder customers in the mid-1990s. I started my autoresponder service in 1994. Was I first? Not completely... I believe I was first for direct marketers, though. The other companies that had software or services for automated email were using them for different purposes. But, ultimately, it didn't really do much for me. I didn't make much money at all from it because it was a hard sell. I got out of the business and now look at guys like Tom Kulzer with AWeber. More power to him! He obviously took the AR service much farther with the follow-up functions, etc.
Marketers "borrow" from other marketers... that's just the nature of the game. And fortunately or unfortunately, the guy that had the original idea that started the "chain reaction" of use rarely gets the credit.
I can only imagine how much stuff was "borrowed" from my Traffic Secrets launch. No one had ever used a blog and its comments for Social Proof like I had during that campaign. Now everyone and their brother does it along with tons of other things I literally pulled out of my butt and had the guts to try. :)
And Marlon, I think you were the only one up until that time that had a physical IM course that sold for more than $300 -- your Cash Like Clockwork course. After Traffic Secrets launched it seems like the whole market rushed to make their own $997 course and behind since I validated that the market would pay those prices in heavy volumes.
And I know for a fact I was the first one that ever used Camtasia to make a Camtasia video auto "jump" to an affiliate URL at the end of the movie...
But again.. that's the nature of the industry, I guess. Most newbie marketers (even ones that go on to make a fortune) will never realize how much hard work and innovation other smart marketers put in to pave the way for them to make money.
Marlon, I did want to comment on one thing you stated:
"When I first help Scott Covert develop the concept that he shared with Mizel who then dubbed it "name squeeze" it was then an original idea, (Scott is on my MySpace...if you don't believe me, email him. Or ask Mizel where he got the idea from)."
I sincerely like and respect Mizel, as well as Scott for all of his amazing ideas; like the 'fake' banner, etc. but they didn't create the Squeeze Page idea. Mizel clearly popularized the name.
I believe Dean Jackson was one of the first marketers to really use that model. I think he started using it in late 1996 or early 1997. He taught it to his best friend, the guy behind doubleyourdating.com, who probably has one of the most ripped off squeeze pages on the Internet.
I just wanted to mention that and give credit where credit it possibly due. Because Dean's a brilliant marketer and he has also made some valuable contributions to the industry -- even beyond the squeeze page model.
And on a random note, someone else that should get an "out of nowhere" mention since we're talking about innovation is FRANK KERN. Frank has created some KILLER concepts and ideas that many use today to make tons of money. His "flycatcher" page concept was truly revolutionary for infoproduct research and creation. He's done tons of other stuff too -- many that IM folks aren't exposed to.
-John Reese |
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Kay King |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 21:42:23
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I watched a few minutes, thought "they look like they are having fun"....but I wasn't, so left the video.
Something like this video depends in large part on the type of thing you personally find funny. I've seen some "hilarious" footage of interaction with the public where the tone was very low-key and tongue in cheek. They cracked me up.
This one didn't - but so what? If others like it - and it was fun to make, that what counts.
I hardly think it deserves deep interpretation or arguments...or defensiveness.
kay |
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Phil |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 21:44:29
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What's that old adage?
oh yes: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' |
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Kurt |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 22:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnReese
I thought the video was funny and applaud Marlon for at least "rocking the boat" of this copycat-stricken market and at least having the courage to try something NEW.
The sad but true reality is there are very few innovators in Internet Marketing. There are very few people that are actually coming up with new ideas and tactics. It's actually the OPPOSITE... everyone and their brother sees or hears about the slightest thing that 'worked' and they clone it, copy it, and BEAT IT TO DEATH.
What's ironic is, most of the time people copy these tactics without realizing *WHY* they originally worked. And because most Internet marketers lack real marketing skills and abilities, they never SEE the FUNDAMENTAL things behind marketing moves and techniques and therefore scratch their heads when they find out they can't make the SAME thing work.
And marketers today have NO IDEA how *EASY* they have it because of guys like Marlon that paved the way to figure out so many ways to successfully sell stuff online. Marketers today can buy a few solid courses and have a real chance of making money in a matter of DAYS.
Guys like me started online in the early 1990s and took YEARS to turn a profit. Because there were no manuals and how-to courses and videos that told you exactly what steps to take that would get a positive response.
But, Marlon, you know as well as I do (and Paul as well) that the guy who comes up with stuff first is the guy that ends up with the arrows in his back. (Or whatever that old saying is.)
Paul was one of my autoresponder customers in the mid-1990s. I started my autoresponder service in 1994. Was I first? Not completely... I believe I was first for direct marketers, though. The other companies that had software or services for automated email were using them for different purposes. But, ultimately, it didn't really do much for me. I didn't make much money at all from it because it was a hard sell. I got out of the business and now look at guys like Tom Kulzer with AWeber. More power to him! He obviously took the AR service much farther with the follow-up functions, etc.
Marketers "borrow" from other marketers... that's just the nature of the game. And fortunately or unfortunately, the guy that had the original idea that started the "chain reaction" of use rarely gets the credit.
I can only imagine how much stuff was "borrowed" from my Traffic Secrets launch. No one had ever used a blog and its comments for Social Proof like I had during that campaign. Now everyone and their brother does it along with tons of other things I literally pulled out of my butt and had the guts to try. :)
And Marlon, I think you were the only one up until that time that had a physical IM course that sold for more than $300 -- your Cash Like Clockwork course. After Traffic Secrets launched it seems like the whole market rushed to make their own $997 course and behind since I validated that the market would pay those prices in heavy volumes.
And I know for a fact I was the first one that ever used Camtasia to make a Camtasia video auto "jump" to an affiliate URL at the end of the movie...
But again.. that's the nature of the industry, I guess. Most newbie marketers (even ones that go on to make a fortune) will never realize how much hard work and innovation other smart marketers put in to pave the way for them to make money.
Marlon, I did want to comment on one thing you stated:
"When I first help Scott Covert develop the concept that he shared with Mizel who then dubbed it "name squeeze" it was then an original idea, (Scott is on my MySpace...if you don't believe me, email him. Or ask Mizel where he got the idea from)."
I sincerely like and respect Mizel, as well as Scott for all of his amazing ideas; like the 'fake' banner, etc. but they didn't create the Squeeze Page idea. Mizel clearly popularized the name.
I believe Dean Jackson was one of the first marketers to really use that model. I think he started using it in late 1996 or early 1997. He taught it to his best friend, the guy behind doubleyourdating.com, who probably has one of the most ripped off squeeze pages on the Internet.
I just wanted to mention that and give credit where credit it possibly due. Because Dean's a brilliant marketer and he has also made some valuable contributions to the industry -- even beyond the squeeze page model.
And on a random note, someone else that should get an "out of nowhere" mention since we're talking about innovation is FRANK KERN. Frank has created some KILLER concepts and ideas that many use today to make tons of money. His "flycatcher" page concept was truly revolutionary for infoproduct research and creation. He's done tons of other stuff too -- many that IM folks aren't exposed to.
-John Reese
Reese,
You're too funny.
Whne someone like myself creates something new, like using RSS for content to develope pages for search engines, your reply was quote/unquote "so what".
I guess creativity is only valid if it was done by someone you JV with.
And please, this time don't lie and claim I said I invented RSS. I never have.
I simply claim I was the first (to my knowledge) to say that RSS can be used to BUILD pages for search engine content, not simpy added to existing pages.
Sure, Carp was around before BlogBomb, but at that time Carp didn't make pages using RSS, it simply added RSS to existing pages. And if I remember corrctly, at that time, Carp only offered a javascript solution, not SSI which is SE friendly.
A simple step, yes. But a very influencial and powerful step.
And if you know of someone that PUBLICALLY released something similar and can document it, please let me know and I will gladly give them credit. If not, give me my due.
I was also the FIRST person to say that VALUE of keywords should be applied to the search engine keywords, as supply/demand was insufficient.
Then, I theorize about "People Rank" on this very forum, months before any leak of the relevant Google patent was made public.
I know you are the only one allowed to brag, but that doesn't change the facts.
Please, if are going to tell me "who cares" when I make a claim of originality, do the same for yourself and your clique. Be consistent.
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n/a |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 22:13:00
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what arrows in the back?
the discourse was not about Marlon the person, or Marlon the marketer, or Marlon the legacy.
the post was about a video, no?
best,
renee |
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 22:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnReese
The sad but true reality is there are very few innovators in Internet Marketing. There are very few people that are actually coming up with new ideas and tactics.
...
And marketers today have NO IDEA how *EASY* they have it because of guys like Marlon that paved the way to figure out so many ways to successfully sell stuff online.
...
Guys like me started online in the early 1990s and took YEARS to turn a profit. Because there were no manuals and how-to courses and videos that told you exactly what steps to take that would get a positive response.
Marketers "borrow" from other marketers... that's just the nature of the game. And fortunately or unfortunately, the guy that had the original idea that started the "chain reaction" of use rarely gets the credit.
Now everyone and their brother does it along with tons of other things I literally pulled out of my butt and had the guts to try. :)
But again.. that's the nature of the industry, I guess. Most newbie marketers (even ones that go on to make a fortune) will never realize how much hard work and innovation other smart marketers put in to pave the way for them to make money.
Wow, John. This is written as if marketing didn't exist before you and the other "internet pioneers" came on the scene. Long before there was an internet, there was direct marketing, mailing lists and list building activities, sales letters, "squeeze pages", testimonials, free bonuses, newsletters and about anything else you think is "new".
Issac Newton was humble enough to say, "If I have seen farther, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."
I say, you have seen farther by the very same methods. Its was pioneers like Abraham, Caples, Halbert and Nicholas that paved the way. And even they were seeing farther by looking to the past.
That's the way it has always been. That is how man makes progress. It is silly and preposterous to draw a line in the sand and say anything before didn't contribute and anything after is a copy. There is very little originality in the world. Is the nature of progress and evolution.
I think if one is going to be successful in this business over the long term, he learn that copycats are an inevitability. Its even more ironic that the ones getting rich teaching how to market on the internet are complaining that some of them actually are, and by God, they're competing with me!
Hell, we're even told to model someone that is doing it; the newbie that hasn't made any money isn't worth listening to.
On a more personal note, how can you painstakingly and publicly docoment the creation of a million dollars overnight and then act surprised or be upset when people follow you and copy what you do?
You were freaking Roger Bannister running the 4 minute mile. You showed it was possible. You had to know that would create a stampede of copycats. Who the hell doesn't want to make a million bucks in a day?
In retrospect, maybe you should have kept that part to yourself? Though you couldn't have generated the buzz could you? It fed upon itself. It was brilliant but nothing comes without a price.
In conclusion, the innovator shouldn't ever feel safe unless he banks enough off of an innovation to retire. There is no rest for the weary and that's the way it goes.
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Willie Crawford |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 22:34:44
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quote:
Originally posted by renee
what arrows in the back?
the discourse was not about Marlon the person, or Marlon the marketer, or Marlon the legacy.
the post was about a video, no?
best,
renee
The express is "pioneers get arrows in their backs and mud in
their facees" ... or something like that...implying that when
you're the first to innovate you also can lose a lot. It's just
another way of says stick with what works rather than innovate.
Innovator do often pay a high price... often because the end
user has to educated as to what it is and why he/she needs/wants
it... as opposed to selling something that already has a
proven market 
Ok, now everybody back to your corners and wait for the bell
Willie
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Hysterical video