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sedriskill |
 Posted - 06/11/2007 : 00:08:13
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yes, I am tired of it. I have a 'premier business' or whatever account with google adwords, I still get slapped, I know how to handle it without doing anything different, but it is such a royal pain.
Im am tired of losing a sales until I notice the slap has occured (sorry, I do not want to spend my life at the computer, I'd rather be playing with my kids and reading/fishing/whatever which is why I went this direction in the first place)
I am tired of having to play the whole url game with the adwords system.
I am spilling the beans so all can benefit.
If you get 'slapped' and your min bid prices go through the roof (think 10.00 to activate ad) all you need to do is bulk register new domain names (urls) and slap the same old content on them and keep doing this adding adgroups, etc in adwords until the 'slaps stop' and your bid prices are back to where they were.
The slap is crap.
Anytime google adwords is 'down for maintainance' on a saturday you can be assured some BS slap is on it'e way.
Another method (beta..be warned) is when google announces thier 'system will be down' message, go ahead and yank all ads until 2 days after it's over and swerve around the whole slap experience.
My last adwords bill was 6k, but I am sure there are those with 60k adword bills and pros who do nothing but run adword accounts who still get slapped.
What a company. |
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BizBooks |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 00:11:15
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Interesting.
Please clarify... you make mirrors of your site? and why does this bring prices down?
thanks! |
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sedriskill |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 00:30:14
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yes I ftp my site or httrack to mirror my site aand reupload with to the new url.
It doesn't 'brong bid prices down' it fools the slapbot and gets bid prices back to where they should be.
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S. McKay |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 00:50:54
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Why would anyone want to STILL try and outsmart Google?
Why dont you just set up your campaigns properly and not have to worry about these so called "slaps"?
Dont try and cheat the system. You may not like it but surely it is better to take time to create solid campaigns than spend time going round in circles avoiding something that is there to help you in the first place?
Stewart |
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kevinhdavis |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 01:07:39
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I just took a quick look at Stewart's free Google Adwords Training, and it looks very good.
Anyone interested in taking the effort needed to deal with the slap, should take a look at his site.
Many of the things he mentioned I knew I should do, but haven't yet since we found it easier to move our PPC business to other networks.
Kevin |
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JoeStec |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 01:44:21
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It's not about outsmarting google... they screw perfectly legit money making campaigns...
Does it make sense to slap a campaign getting a 4-6% ctr for 6 months straight? If ppl are clicking, the ad is relevant. If you run the ad that long, you're making money. SO its relevant and profitable...
Yet google is still out of control anal and slapped the hell out of my poor campaign... |
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S. McKay |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 01:57:36
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeStec
It's not about outsmarting google... they screw perfectly legit money making campaigns...
Does it make sense to slap a campaign getting a 4-6% ctr for 6 months straight? If ppl are clicking, the ad is relevant. If you run the ad that long, you're making money. SO its relevant and profitable...
Yet google is still out of control anal and slapped the hell out of my poor campaign...
Well the original post WAS about outsmarting Google from what I took from it.
Just becuase people are clicking it doesnt mean your ad is relevant. You could place an ad like "You Have Just Won A Million Bucks - See Inside For More Info" and bid on keywords like "make money online" and draw a great CTR from that.
Is that relevant? Is it heck.
Secondly, just becuase your ad is profitable does not mean Google should just let you run it regardless of how your campaign is structured.
Google needs to look after itself first and foremost and they do that by ensuring the quality of Ads on it's network are of a high standard.
If they deem yours not to be then that is not their problem - it's yours
Instead of fighting it why not just either do what Google ask of you as an advertiser or pull all campaigns and use another PPC network?
Adwords is the best PPC network out there and as long as they keep pushing the Quality Score factor hard it always will be.
Cheers
Stewart |
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askcybersteve |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 05:26:18
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quote:
Originally posted by S. McKay
quote : Originally posted by JoeStec
Instead of fighting it why not just either do what Google ask of you as an advertiser or pull all campaigns and use another PPC network?
Adwords is the best PPC network out there and as long as they keep pushing the Quality Score factor hard it always will be.
And where pray tell does Google spell out exactly what they are asking of advertisers and webmasters?? The rules which they apply are changing constantly and are not evenly applied. Google's biggest problem is a lack of communication with their stakeholders.
Algorithm changes, PR devluation, changing rules etc etc are the norm and are usually met with a wall of silence from G. About the only semi-public comment they provide is from Matt Cutts blog.
I would quite happily follow their letter of the law...if they put it in black and white. And as far as them being the dominant system...thats currently true...but watch out for a big change if they continue to provide poor communication whilst slapping customers. Eventually someone else is going to crawl in and shut the game down.
Remember in the net world any 2 bit kid with a garage and a great idea can put Google out of business.
steve
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S. McKay |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 05:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by askcybersteve
quote:
Originally posted by S. McKay
quote : Originally posted by JoeStec
Instead of fighting it why not just either do what Google ask of you as an advertiser or pull all campaigns and use another PPC network?
Adwords is the best PPC network out there and as long as they keep pushing the Quality Score factor hard it always will be.
And where pray tell does Google spell out exactly what they are asking of advertisers and webmasters?? The rules which they apply are changing constantly and are not evenly applied. Google's biggest problem is a lack of communication with their stakeholders.
Algorithm changes, PR devluation, changing rules etc etc are the norm and are usually met with a wall of silence from G. About the only semi-public comment they provide is from Matt Cutts blog.
I would quite happily follow their letter of the law...if they put it in black and white. And as far as them being the dominant system...thats currently true...but watch out for a big change if they continue to provide poor communication whilst slapping customers. Eventually someone else is going to crawl in and shut the game down.
Remember in the net world any 2 bit kid with a garage and a great idea can put Google out of business.
steve
Hey Steve
Well since we are talking about Adwords, then I think it is spelled out in numerous locations what Google expects of Advertisers.
I agree with you to an extent RE: PR devaluations and other search ranking algo changes and variations but that is not the topic at and and deserves a thread of its own.
If some two bit kid comes along and takes Google out, then fair play. Until that happens, they are the best PPC network IMHO.
Stewart |
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LB |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 06:46:36
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With all due respect, Adwords can and does flag ads with poor quality scores for nonobvious reasons.
Stewart, I signed up for your free training and see nothing there that Google is not already telling you regarding QS. I agree that people do really dumb things and then complain but that is not always the case. There is also the consideration of the "minislap" and the standard slap. If someone has a poorly written and targeted ad then they are going to have problems aside from the QS.
There are a variety of on-page factors that G is looking for as well as targeting the ad groups, keywords and landing pages. There is also evidence that the more competitive the keyword the more G requires to meet a "great" QS. This is the reason that a nonsense term or mispelling will often generate a "great" quality score for no apparent reason- no competition.
I'm not an Adwords guru but I've taken their courses and studied most of the so-called "gurus" and put hundreds of thousands of dollars in Google's pocket and 99% of the info on quality score is A. basic to the point of stupidity (match keywords to landing pages) or B. totally and completely false.
There's a reason why people with PR6 domains and 10% CTR are getting "poor" while blackhatters are still getting "great" with their garbage pages. |
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xlfutur1 |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 11:09:53
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeStec
It's not about outsmarting google... they screw perfectly legit money making campaigns...
Does it make sense to slap a campaign getting a 4-6% ctr for 6 months straight? If ppl are clicking, the ad is relevant. If you run the ad that long, you're making money. SO its relevant and profitable...
Yet google is still out of control anal and slapped the hell out of my poor campaign...
I agree, I had a campaign running for 3 1/2 months with some ridiculous click through rates (some of the best I've ever had) and 6-8% returning visitors daily. Sound like what google likes....nope, they slapped all my keywords and jacked the prices too high to continue running it. I ranted in another post on this forum so its beating a dead horse. |
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S. McKay |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 12:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by LB
With all due respect, Adwords can and does flag ads with poor quality scores for nonobvious reasons.
Stewart, I signed up for your free training and see nothing there that Google is not already telling you regarding QS. I agree that people do really dumb things and then complain but that is not always the case. There is also the consideration of the "minislap" and the standard slap. If someone has a poorly written and targeted ad then they are going to have problems aside from the QS.
There are a variety of on-page factors that G is looking for as well as targeting the ad groups, keywords and landing pages. There is also evidence that the more competitive the keyword the more G requires to meet a "great" QS. This is the reason that a nonsense term or mispelling will often generate a "great" quality score for no apparent reason- no competition.
I'm not an Adwords guru but I've taken their courses and studied most of the so-called "gurus" and put hundreds of thousands of dollars in Google's pocket and 99% of the info on quality score is A. basic to the point of stupidity (match keywords to landing pages) or B. totally and completely false.
There's a reason why people with PR6 domains and 10% CTR are getting "poor" while blackhatters are still getting "great" with their garbage pages.
Good post LB.
You say that most of the info on Quality Score is basic yet the person who started this thread is not implementing the basic strategies to avoid the Slap.
Personally, I got slapped once and learned the things I needed to implement in order to overcome that.
To this date, every single keyword I include in my campaign achieves Great Quality Score and I have never seen my keywords being slapped, domain being slapped or account being slapped.
I follow the simple steps and nothing ever seems to happen to me.
LB, you also bring PR into the equation. Whilst it may have a slight influence if you actually think about the Quality Score system you will realise that PR has very little clout at all - if at all. You could register a new domain now and add relevant content to it and see great Quality Score tommorrow. (Age of domain does come into it, BUT quality of content obviously matters most)
Blackhatters are termed that for a very good reason and sooner or later everything will catch up with them.
If you have thrown hundereds of thousands into Adwords then you should be more than aware of that.
It;s not rocket science but it does take a bit of hard work to set up campaigns. I can guarantee that those getting slapped are NOT adhering to the basic principles:
-> Basing their campaigns on a website that is full of great, relevant content and optimized for the search engines.
-> Grouping keywords according to the "common keyword" and writing highly targeted ads leading to highly targeted and optimized landing pages.
There is not much more to it than that and if you are looking for some advanced material on avoiding the so called slap then I think you will be somewhat dissapointed.
Stewart
PS: > "I signed up for your free training and see nothing there that Google is not already telling you regarding QS"
What did you expect? Why would it be any different? Google tells you what they expect and that's that. There are no secrets and there never will be.
What I have attempted to do is put it altogether in a step by step fashion and hope that more people can learn from that than they do from Google's pages. I have added personal experience to the mix and also explained explicity, on numerous occasions what it takes to achieve a GREAT Quality Score for every single keyword in your ad groups. For the record, many members have contacted me saying how their campaigns are much more streamlined and how they are not being slapped around any more. That for me, is the main thing.
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S. McKay |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 12:14:26
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quote:
Originally posted by xlfutur1
quote:
Originally posted by JoeStec
It's not about outsmarting google... they screw perfectly legit money making campaigns...
Does it make sense to slap a campaign getting a 4-6% ctr for 6 months straight? If ppl are clicking, the ad is relevant. If you run the ad that long, you're making money. SO its relevant and profitable...
Yet google is still out of control anal and slapped the hell out of my poor campaign...
I agree, I had a campaign running for 3 1/2 months with some ridiculous click through rates (some of the best I've ever had) and 6-8% returning visitors daily. Sound like what google likes....nope, they slapped all my keywords and jacked the prices too high to continue running it. I ranted in another post on this forum so its beating a dead horse.
Hey
It's not a dead horse at all. You already know that a godd CTR will increase your Quality Score.
You now need to look at the other main factor - RELEVANCY.
If Goole deem your keywords to be irrelevant - regardless of whether you think they are or not - you will get slapped.
They dont just go around slapping people for no reason contrary to popular belief.
I could hedge a bet that the keywords you were bidding on for 31/2 months were not relevant to the ad copy you were using or the landing page you were sending your traffic to.
If that was not the case then I would assume your website was not searcher friendly enough for Googles liking.
Don't quit becuase you face a hurdle - overcome the hurdle. People are leaving adwords everyday becuase they cannot fathom or they cannot be bothered learning how to use it.
If you do master it then you will be in a much better position to profit from it.
Cheers
Stewart |
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Texjd |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 12:38:40
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Google's only motivation is profit, as it should be. I gave up shouting at the rain a long time ago but Google is totally out of control on making changes based on mystical assumptions.
I work my campaigns, spend about 2 hours a day trying to keep everything under control. I have four websites that have multiple campaigns and on any given day Google screws with one of them. I follow every guideline available and talk to Google reps often. But I still get slapped from time to time.
I've had a Google rep review my slapped terms and say, Gee - that doesn't look like there's anything wrong. No kidding, it's been running for months, maybe years.
But there's no use in crying or complaining since all it does is waste your time. I just do what I need to do to fix the "problem" and move on. I get a good return on my investment but it takes a lot more work these days.
And I've also found that you don't have to get a new domain name, just tie in you landing page to the adgroup (in other words sell your product or service from different viewpoints). I have different web pages for many of my adgroups but it is the same product marketed under different selling points. |
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tekin |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 10:52:58
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Yes, Google will screw with you no matter what!
It takes too much effort for me to worry about... I have many others ways to generate traffic, but it still sucks that you must keep up with it all even when you have legit campaigns.
Tomt |
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NHB |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 02:12:47
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Yep, The dandies at the Googleplex are a fickle bunch, and want everything to be just so. But they won't tell you what you they want... you have to guess, and more often then not get burned in the process.
Google is a childish company. This image serves them well for public relations, but as a business owner I want to enter a partnership with a company that's going to help me understand their service, not jack my CPC up to $5 per click and tell me to "increase my quality".
I'm not a vindictive person but I can't wait for Google's fall from grace. |
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xlfutur1 |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 23:07:36
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| Well said NHB, I can't wait til someone knocks them off either. I just had another slap on a site that has been getting over 4% click through rate for the last 2 months. I use build a niche store and Every keyword had a separate landing page that displayed products only for that keyword. some keywords were geting 20% click through rates consistently for 6 weeks. And of course most all had "great" quality scores for the same length of time. But as of today, all are $5 - 10 minimums from the big G. I don't get it, I have been sending them $2000 per month, getting great quality scores, high CTR, and then they do this shit. I have no idea how they make as much money as they do. Eventually all of us marketers will just go elsewhere. It sure is getting old. |
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Dhira |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 01:37:56
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quote : Eventually all of us marketers will just go elsewhere.
Some of us have already begun... |
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Texjd |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 04:58:23
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Well, I spent a lot of time going through the basics and making very speicfic changes to all my campaigns in the past few months. I'm like Xlfutur1, I've broken out every landing page according to the adgroup and keywords and have great CTR and pretty good conversions.
The one aspect that I really bore down on was adding some content to the sales page. I created a theme based few paragraphs on each landing page that was pure content on the subject (in this case product).
That seems to have eliminated the "slap" factor, at least so far. The one gripe I still have is the every increasing CPC. Due to competition, and foolish bidders (bid too high), my cost just keeps on rising. And a few of my adgroups are nearing the point of pricing me out of adwords for that product. Low commission affiliate users are probably already out, the cost is just too high for the profit margin.
Here's an excellent article on the problems with Adwords, I agree with most of what this guys says about the current issues:
http://archive.webpronews.com/2007a/1016.html
BTW, if a maintenance notice is a sign of a new slap, get ready since they have maintenance scheduled for tomorrow, November 10th.
Everyone should go take a look on Sunday and Monday to make sure they didn't get popped. |
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Bearded |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 09:30:46
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I had the same thing happen to me yesterday. Two out of three of my BANS sites got slapped. Everything was "Great" up until yesterday. Super relevant landing pages. Unique content. One of them was getting 6-8% ctr. Now every keyword is poor. Now what?
quote : Originally posted by xlfutur1
Well said NHB, I can't wait til someone knocks them off either. I just had another slap on a site that has been getting over 4% click through rate for the last 2 months. I use build a niche store and Every keyword had a separate landing page that displayed products only for that keyword. some keywords were geting 20% click through rates consistently for 6 weeks. And of course most all had "great" quality scores for the same length of time. But as of today, all are $5 - 10 minimums from the big G. I don't get it, I have been sending them $2000 per month, getting great quality scores, high CTR, and then they do this shit. I have no idea how they make as much money as they do. Eventually all of us marketers will just go elsewhere. It sure is getting old.
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Texjd |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 10:09:07
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Bearded - Ignore the ratings. Many of mine are poor or OK. That didn't change the cost per click. And there is no revelance to the conversion rate.
Many of my best producing keywords are OK or lower. As long as they don't bump my cost per click, I couldn't care less of Google's opinion =8~).
What bothers me is these "slaps" seem to have no rhyme or reason these days and slowing work through the adgroups. You almost have to check every day to make sure they didn't bite you. |
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aboutalhah |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 12:59:28
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Yup! I was thinking about playing around with Google to see what the best has to offer (did make some bucks last year until the Google slap...)
I will think twice. |
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tabufx50 |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 13:08:25
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Yeah my google slap wasn't as severe as far as the huge PPC increases I see above.
However, I did notice a big price increase to keep my own campaigns running. So now some campaigns that I have are not profitable because google's bill at the end of the month zaps away my profit margins...google is huge and that's how they plan to make even more revenue...just increase prices....
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Bearded |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 13:28:39
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That would've been fine. Unfortunately that whole campaign was running for 4 months with about 12-15 cents a click. Now they want $1+/click on every single keyword.
quote : Originally posted by Texjd
Bearded - Ignore the ratings. Many of mine are poor or OK. That didn't change the cost per click. And there is no revelance to the conversion rate.
Many of my best producing keywords are OK or lower. As long as they don't bump my cost per click, I couldn't care less of Google's opinion =8~).
What bothers me is these "slaps" seem to have no rhyme or reason these days and slowing work through the adgroups. You almost have to check every day to make sure they didn't bite you.
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PPC-Coach |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 01:32:36
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I think the last slap was targetting the people who dump 10,000 plus keywords into a campaign at once and have 2,000 keywords per adgroup. They hate that. Surround your offer with other related offers, give the surfer choices when they hit your landing SITE. You can still get paid even if they dont' do the offer you intended them to.
To the original poster, isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time? No wonder you keep getting slapped, you're being lazy. Sure the new domain will work, temporarily, but how about fixing the problem instead? Get a new domain, put tons of related offers on it, (give the surfer a choice) and you won't get slapped anymore. I haven't been slapped in two years now, but when I did, it hurt. I was determined to never go through that again and (knock on wood), I haven't since. There is no secret to what they want. They want the most money they can get out of your pocket AND they want their surfers to have choices when they land on your site. This goes against what ppc marketers want, (we want them to buy something or get off our site asap and onto the merchants site so we get potentially paid), but it's their sandbox. So adapt, modify, research and you won't get slapped again.
Oh and the people saying their ctr is great, their page produces for them and what not, that is totally not the point of a slap. Google doesn't care about those things, they care about "providing a good user experience". So sending them to a page that looks like a clickbank sales letter page is not a good thing in THEIR EYES. It's a one page wonder or a bridge page and they can spot them a mile away now. |
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Tired of The Google Adwords Slap