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n/a |
 Posted - 09/16/2007 : 20:37:41
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I'm looking for some solutions to stop the "theft" of my Ebooks.
They are in PDF format and some people have re-sold them or given them away....without MY permission.
Any suggestions on how to limit or stop this would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Don Alm |
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Charmer |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 20:41:18
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| DLguard, or Payguardfree.com |
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RickHanson |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 20:52:25
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HI Don,
If you want to stop people from passing along your PDF files here are two options.
http://www.locklizard.com/
http://www.fileopen.com
They're pricey. Last I heard Fileopen started at $5,000.
Compatibility:
Fileopen will not work with Macs. Locklizard will.
HTH,
Rick |
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adpro |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:10:38
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You can password protect PDF files.
Paul Uhl |
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KenStrong |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:14:59
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quote : Originally posted by adpro
You can password protect PDF files.
Paul Uhl
Wouldn't they be able to just give out the password along with the .pdf?
Re DLGuard: I know it can stop people from passing around your download link, but it doesn't stop them from doing what they want with the .pdf once they have downloaded it, does it? |
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George Wright |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:23:59
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Hi,
Sooner or later IMers will get back to exe ebooks with safe guard solutions. Until then links in your ebooks to your other products will generate you some more profit at least.
George Wright |
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qouncturist |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:26:24
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| www.secure-ebook.com is a viral solution that allows a chapter(s) of your choice to be viewed and if the new owner of the viral copy wants to read the rest, there's a paypal link to pay you so everyone is happy! |
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samstephens |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:27:23
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Hi Ken,
Yes, that's right, DLGuard protects your sales link, your download pages and download links, and verifies sale information. It has other non-security related benefits as well, including a steamlined download experience for your customer, easy customer management for you as the business owner, reporting, stats, cart, memberships, etc.
You can look into "wrappers" if you wish to help protect PDF's after they've been downloaded, however you need to weigh up the benefits - will the sales you save by using a wrapper be greater than the sales you lose by using a wrapper?
It's a business decision you need to make for your own particular business and customers. ALWAYS use security for your website and download links, such as DLGuard, but the decision to use PDF wrappers is up for debate.
As mentioned, you just need to do whats right for your business.
cheers
Sam
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dedy |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 21:30:54
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Hi there,
You can use 'Phoenix Pirate Shield' but this script is paid version. You can track your pdf/exe format product and if your buyer share your product with somebody else you can terminate it so they can not use your product again. The same thing you can do with theft.
Regards
Dedy |
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seobro |
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n/a |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 22:36:04
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I started out using "compiled EXE" which I could "secure" BUT...because of the negative publicity from hackers putting junk into EXE files, we had to go to pdfs.
I'm wondering if nowadays, if there is some way to explain that the EXE file was "Virus-Proofed". Or, are EXE's out for good?
Don Alm |
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cheeze69 |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 22:57:04
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From a buyer's perspective, I will NEVER buy or even download anything that comes in an EXE. There's simply too much in the way of trojans and spyware out there to risk spending my money AND getting infected. And, not everyone uses Winbloze -- I use an OS X machine as my main machine and if an ebook cannot be read on there, I will *not* spend any money on it. Don't forget that if you're selling IM/computer/nerd related stuff, there will be a disproportionate number of your buyers using a non-Winbloze OS who will also not be interested in buying an EXE.
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Christopher Landrum |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 01:33:18
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You could...
- Put a NOINDEX/NOFOLLOW meta tag on your download page
- Turn indexes off for all the directories
- Force the buyer to authenticate their purchase to gain access
- Use a download management system...
Guess what? Your product will continue to get stolen, passed around, and posted on warez sites and P2P networks.
Sure, these "preventative" measures may significantly reduce the amount of times it happens. But when someone really wants your product – and they don't want to pay for it – they'll figure out a way to steal it. (That's just a sad, unfortunate fact of doing business on the Internet.)
* What about the software "wrappers" that authenticate buyers and supposedly deactivate products after refunds? Think they will save you? Think again! A cracker will just open a hex editor, change the destination URL and reverse engineer the authentication process.
* And "dongles"? You have to physically mail, deliver, or make them available for local pick-up (if you sell over the Internet) because they are peripheral devices that connect to a computer's USB, serial, or firewire port. Talk about a hassle. And what buyer is going to connect a dongle to their computer to read an ebook? Let's not forget, most dongles are easy to reverse engineer.
Think about it: if Microsoft, Adobe, Sony, and other billion dollar corporations can't figure out how to stop the illegal access and distribution of their software products, do you really think you're going to solve the problem for $14.95 a month or a one time fee of $97?
So, instead of wasting your precious time, worrying about how to stop people from stealing your downloadable products... embrace the fact it's going to happen and figure out a way to leverage this inevitable nuisance into an untapped opportunity. Here's an example of what I mean...
Inside of the product or the zip file where the product will be located:
- Provide instructions on how to send you a donation. (In an interview with John Reese, Jeremy Schoemaker (http://www.shoemoney.com) explains this is how he makes money when people illegally pass around his free ringtones.)
- Upsell with a special deal on a big ticket physical product or service (e.g., consulting, seminar) -- something they want, but is more difficult to steal. (I have made a small fortune from people who purchase backend products and services because the product they stole overdelivered on everything they expected.)
(Of course, there are many other ways to monetize these eyeballs like affiliate offers, contextual ads, etc.)
Who knows, after you test this new strategy, you may find it's more profitable to allow people to steal your products.
Hope this helps!
Chris |
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samstephens |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 01:53:00
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quote : Sure, these "preventative" measures may significantly reduce the amount of times it happens.
That's the magic word: "significantly"
While you can't stop all piracy, there is no point in thowing the baby out with the bathwater.
A 90% reduction in piracy is better than a 0% reduction.
Even a 5% reduction is better than 0%.
And if your preventative measures, by using a download management system, also allow you to automate parts of your business, allow you to save time when adding or changing products, allow easier customer management, and a smooth customer sales experience, you'd be mad NOT to invest in a download management system like DLGuard.
cheers
Sam
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Christopher Landrum |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 02:35:22
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quote : Originally posted by samstephens
While you can't stop all piracy, there is no point in thowing the baby out with the bathwater.
A 90% reduction in piracy is better than a 0% reduction.
Even a 5% reduction is better than 0%.
Maybe.
It depends on the target market, the number of conversions, and the lifetime value of a buyer.
Let's say, for example, your $37 product gets stolen by 50 people and 5 purchase an upsell for $500. If those five people continue to spend $500 with you every year for the rest of their lives, how many times would you let 50 people steal your product?
Before anyone says, "These people are thieves; they're not going to spend money with you." Well, how do you know? Have you tested it? Until you test it for yourself, you can't possibly know.
Maybe it won't be profitable. Maybe it will.
There's only one way to find out.
Hope this helps!
Chris |
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samstephens |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 03:37:59
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IF you had someone steal your ebook and then buy an upsell, if it actually happened then your conversion rate would be tiny.
But for the sake of the argument, lets say you have a 1% conversion rate (more likely something like 0.001).
You have your $37 ebook stolen 100 times (for the sake of easy maths). That's $3700 due to loss of sales. With your generous 1% conversion rate, that's $500 you'd make.
Personally I'd rather curb the theft of my product.
Real visitors are hard enough to convert to paying customers, converting someone who stole from you once? The chances are tiny.
Imagine you owned a clothing shop. Would you rather stop someone from stealing a shirt from you, or would you rather allow them to steal your shirt but then put a sticker on the shirt offering them a great deal on a pair of jeans?
No matter which way you look at it, no theft is better than theft.
If you REALLY think your upsell is going to make money money than the sale of the original product, then simply give away your original product for free.
cheers
Sam
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erictan |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 05:21:11
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quote : Think about it: if Microsoft, Adobe, Sony, and other billion dollar corporations can't figure out how to stop the illegal access and distribution of their software products, do you really think you're going to solve the problem for $14.95 a month or a one time fee of $97?
So, instead of wasting your precious time, worrying about how to stop people from stealing your downloadable products... embrace the fact it's going to happen and figure out a way to leverage this inevitable nuisance into an untapped opportunity. Here's an example of what I mean...
I think this is practically what everyone should know, because you really shouldn't worry about some trivial things if you're going for big goals.
Just do a PM to every "Successful Marketer" you know/heard of in this forum and ask them how much time or money they spend on to improve their security on the their products?
You'll be surprised they don't bother too much about this issue and some will even tell you that they allow others to legally steal their products for free.
Let me tell you a short story which I heard from a very successful multi-millionaire, here it goes...
A sage challenged his students with a question. The question is "Assuming that you have piece of land full of weed, propose what you would do to get rid of the weed."
One student suggested to pull out the weed by hand. One said use a shovel is faster. Another said why not we just burn the weed.
"The answers are all wrong," said the sage. "The answer is to farm the land."
Hint: Replace the "weed" with your own "problem" and you'll find the answer.
I hope you understand what I wanted to say and hope you'll find the solution soon.
Take care!
Eric Tan |
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Christopher Landrum |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 08:32:15
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quote : Originally posted by samstephens
But for the sake of the argument, lets say you have a 1% conversion rate (more likely something like 0.001).
You have your $37 ebook stolen 100 times (for the sake of easy maths). That's $3700 due to loss of sales. With your generous 1% conversion rate, that's $500 you'd make.
Would all 100 people have purchased the ebook (if they couldn't steal it)? Maybe. Maybe not. But using your example of a 1% conversion rate, if you made $500 on the upsell and then $500 from the same buyer every year for the next ten years, you would profit $1,300 if all 100 people would have purchased the product (and that's not including any potential referrals from the buyer).
quote : Imagine you owned a clothing shop. Would you rather stop someone from stealing a shirt from you, or would you rather allow them to steal your shirt but then put a sticker on the shirt offering them a great deal on a pair of jeans?
If allowing them to steal the shirt conditioned them to consistently spend money in the clothing store or refer new business -- money greater than the cost of the shirt -- it may be beneficial to the bottom line of the business.
However, if you can't cover the initial losses of these physical items, everyone may soon see an "out of business" sign on your front door.
And let's not forget... because this thief is "knowingly" stealing merchandise, you have to decide whether you want such a person as a client.
quote : If you REALLY think your upsell is going to make money money than the sale of the original product, then simply give away your original product for free.
While this approach may work (due to other reasons), it could backfire.
For honest buyers, purchasing the lower-priced product may condition them to buy the higher ticket product or service. (So, without the initial baby-step purchase, they may not buy the more expensive item.) For thieves, a free version of the product may not be as desirable because of a decrease in perceived value. |
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Tom Brownsword |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 11:50:27
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In general, protection schemes once an ebook is downloaded does nothing except give crackers something to break while annoying your legitimate customers.
Besides, most of the people stealing your ebook will never read or act on it anyway, so if the practical application of the information in the ebook is what gives it value, then nothing has really been stolen, has it?
This post is a bit simplistic, perhaps, but the main point is simply to introduce some thoughts...
Tom |
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Quentin |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 12:18:22
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If Bill Gates with all his millions can protect Windows what hope do we have. Just remember that most people are honest.
Shopkeepers in the tangible have to make allowances for bad debts and shoplifting. Unfortunately so do we.
Its just part of doing business. If they want to steal it they will. Don't concentrate on that as it will depress you and take up valuable time. Get into helping and servicing the people that do buy it.
By the way congratulations. Most ebooks arnt worth stealing.
Quentin |
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Michael Mayo |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:14:05
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It kinda boggles my mine that people will download a program in .exe format but they don't want
and ebook it the same format???
About all you can do is to make sure you have other resources that match with the product(an upsell) and links to your other products(such as Affiliate programs) to off set the loses.
Using DownLoad Guard can help by only allowing people that have purchased your product to be able to download any bonuses associated with the purchase.
You'll not stop theifs from stealing but you can Help Honest people attempt to stay Honest with deturrents.
Have a Great Day!
Michael |
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ShawnP |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:27:04
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quote : Originally posted by dalm
I'm looking for some solutions to stop the "theft" of my Ebooks.
They are in PDF format and some people have re-sold them or given them away....without MY permission.
Any suggestions on how to limit or stop this would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Don Alm
You should check out www.cbprotect.com . $30/month for unlimited protection, and you can give it a go for less than $3. |
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n/a |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:28:31
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Here’s a clever way to stop ebook theft… It was done manually by a seller but I’m sure it could be automated for immediate download.
I purchased an online manual that would arrive in adobe acrobat’s Portable Document File format.
Instead of making it downloadable, they sent the book by email.It’s obviously a book created on a Word or Word Perfect document printed out as the PDF file.
After receiving the order, they opened up the master file and in the footer that appears on every page typed “This book prepared exclusively for….”
I liked the personalization but obviously keeps their ebook from being given away as a freebie.
Try it yourself and let me know if it helps. |
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BIG Mike |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:40:48
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I don't want to raise any false hopes, but I think I've found a way to do this via PDF. I've been doing a lot of research because it's a constant problem and I believe it can be done. 
We;ll see.... |
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Michael Mayo |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:31:46
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badd, The personalization can be automated because I have a script that can do it!
quote : Originally posted by badd
Here’s a clever way to stop ebook theft… It was done manually by a seller but I’m sure it could be automated for immediate download.
I purchased an online manual that would arrive in adobe acrobat’s Portable Document File format.
Instead of making it downloadable, they sent the book by email.It’s obviously a book created on a Word or Word Perfect document printed out as the PDF file.
After receiving the order, they opened up the master file and in the footer that appears on every page typed “This book prepared exclusively for….”
I liked the personalization but obviously keeps their ebook from being given away as a freebie.
Try it yourself and let me know if it helps.
BigMike, Yep I seen it!,
It went that way --->
quote : Originally posted by BigMike
Uh...has anyone seen my signature around here?
Have a Great Day!
Michael |
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NicketasKavouklis |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:37:46
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quote : Originally posted by dalm
I'm looking for some solutions to stop the "theft" of my Ebooks.
They are in PDF format and some people have re-sold them or given them away....without MY permission.
Any suggestions on how to limit or stop this would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Don Alm
Put affiliate links in your book so that even thieves buy something from you.
You can't really "stop" ebook theft completely.
So instead, use it to your advantage and profit from it.
Personally, if people are stealing your ebook left and right then this is a very high quality problem because it means its in demand and you can profit from the affiliate links.
So tell people not to steal, then let them anyways because you can make some backend money from it ;) |
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Anomaly1974 |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 16:19:47
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One thing I have found that is at least some consolation is that I can include "Blind" links in my pdf e-books. Using the Adobe Pro software I can include hyperlinks that are not blue, highlighted or in any other way readily obvious. Still, when people read on the computer, they have a tendency to "follow the mouse" so to speak, using the mouse as a means of keeping track of where they are. When they get to my blind links, sometimes they click and sometimes they do not. I use them sparingly in order to avoid being accused of link spamming my material but they have shown some results without receiving any complaints so far.
Another thing I do is hint at bonuses or other "obviously" fake deals and if someone takes enough interest to search it (Which they have) it leads them directly to my site. While the link is no longer any good, one of my most popular was for "Bubba's Junkyard Auctions". Including a little information that said Since he could not compete with E-Bay, he was giving away bonuses when his stuff was purchased. At the time, I had the only results for a search of "Bubba's Junkyard Auctions" LOL It does not help theft but it could be helpful. Or not?
Ward |
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pierrebenoit |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 17:12:51
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I did a research about the subject and found many ways to download pdf files illegally using tools like simple search engines. So I figured how to overcome each bad configuration... (I wrote a simple report about the illegal download of files)
I found that the owner or the reseler can be responsible in a big part: Because they doesn't know to secure download directories (some named their download directories download, dl, products... Some forgot to put a simple blank html in the root of their directories, some link all the page of their websites, some forgot to encrypt their paypal button...)
But as Christopher Landrum said here, You need to put your effort in your product creation because you can not know where your product will be about a legal download. The good strategy is to find a way to capitalize on these illegal downloads. |
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samstephens |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 18:53:29
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quote : Would all 100 people have purchased the ebook (if they couldn't steal it)? Maybe. Maybe not. But using your example of a 1% conversion rate, if you made $500 on the upsell and then $500 from the same buyer every year for the next ten years, you would profit $1,300 if all 100 people would have purchased the product (and that's not including any potential referrals from the buyer).
You'd be hardpressed to keep a loyal customer spending $500 per year with you for 10 years, let alone a thief.
Here's the logic as I see it: if someone steals a $37 ebook off you, there is no way they'll dish out $500 per year for another product. They'll simply go to the place they stole the first one and steal the second one too.
Now if you promoted a cheaper option in your ebook then you'd have more of a chance: say for example they steal your $97 ebook, you MAY have a chance at getting them to buy you $17 ebook, but even that is sketchy.
As for testing, there is no way to test any of this - we're ALL going by assumptions, and it's up to the business owner to decide on what is right for their particular business.
I personally run off the assumption that if a person won't spend $37 with you, then there is no way they'd ever spend $500 with you.
Can you capitalize on stolen ebooks? I honestly doubt it. Branding doesn't count when it's thieves that know your name. If they steal from you once, they'll steal from you twice.
But does this mean you lose sleep over it? No.
I'm about to release an ebook, and while I'll be taking care to secure and automate my sales and download process, I'll be releasing it in PDF format.
Theft is not something to panic over, but at the same time if you can take steps toward adding security that will stop a lot of theft, and at the same time make your business and customer management (and your customer experience) a LOT better, then why not?
Putting an affiliate link in an ebook is NOT a replacement for taking simple security measures for your business.
cheers
Sam
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Derek Pankaew |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:07:40
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There was once a dating ebook that had every security measure in the book:
- Guarded download links
- Passworded file
- Each and every file had a series of different typos in the document, and each copy could be individually tracked to a credit card, even if several of the typos are caught
- Other safeguards that weren't named on the site.
Although this ebook remained un-pirated for several months after the release, which is an improvement compared to other products in the industry, in just a few months the ebook was in wide distribution all over the internet.
My point is, you can protect it all you want - If people want to crack it bad enough, they will. Focus on getting more buyers instead.
My 2 cents. |
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samstephens |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:21:21
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quote : My point is, you can protect it all you want - If people want to crack it bad enough, they will. Focus on getting more buyers instead.
I agree that if people want to crack it bad enough, they will. But what if by implementing a security solution, you not only protected it from a lot of theft, but by implementing the solution you also:
- Streamlined the sales process
- Made the the delivery system easy for your customer
- Reduced customer support issues due to non-recieved products
- Made customer management easy
- Could make chances to your products quickly and easily
- Could add and launch new products much quicker
- Could automate mailing list signups
- Could show sales conversion rates without you having to mess with finicky scripts
...then wouldn't it be worth it?
Even if we ignore the security aspect completely, it's still worth every cent to invest in a good download management system.
cheers
Sam
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MSutton |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:21:43
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quote : Originally posted by dalm
are EXE's out for good?
Don Alm
NO, EXE ebooks are not out for good. Many well-established marketers still use them. Harvey Segal comes to mind. Y'know, the Clickbank guru.
EXE ebooks are far superior to PDFs in so many ways. They are bound to make a comeback unless someone finds a better solution to the dull, boring, and seller-unfriendly PDFs soon.
To find out if your niche market will take kindly to EXE ebooks, all you can do is test it. Some niches will take to the EXE, others won't (at least not as much as a PDF). Test, test, test.
Never listen to one person who says his conversions went up or down when offering EXE ebooks. Your results will most likely be different from his, especially if you are in a totally different niche than his, I guarantee it. |
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Orp |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 09:49:31
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I really don't believe anyone is "allowing" it to be stolen, but we are just acknowledging that it happens. I also doubt if you will up-sell many who have stolen the e-book. The value is there, if someone pays for it, they will dig harder for the value in it. Someone who stole it probably will not 'dig' to see the value, after all they got it for free. What they don't know is they are only cheating themselves.
All the safeguards just frustrate the buyers and dissuade them from further purchases. Just like a shop owner who knows there is shop lifting going on ....he does not frisk everyone on their leaving the store. He tries to mitigate his loss, but goes about business and treating his paying customers with the respect they deserve. I believe that works for our online businesses also.
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Ulf Hedlund |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 10:36:05
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Like a falling bowl of petunias, "Oh no, not again" just crossed my mind.
I believe we had a very similar discussion about six months ago, but the only thing we did agree upon was that we couldn't agree on a good solution.
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How To Stop Ebook Theft