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dll12677 |
 Posted - 01/15/2008 : 17:41:33
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I just finished listening to a teleseminar hosted by Joan Stewart, The Publicity Hound, with Don Crowther from Stompernet.
The teleseminar was about social marketing. I asked a 2-part question. The first part of my question basically asked, how can Internet marketers establish a solid, stable and ethical social marketing plan?
The second part of my question was:
"How does your classes differ from Conversation Domination?"
Here's what Crowther said:
“I’m not an expert at Howie Schwartz’s “Conversation Domination”,
but with the people who are members of his program that I have talked
to, we cover everything he covers in his entire year’s course-in one week.
I’m not saying that you’re going to get overwhelmed in that week.
What I’m saying is that “Conversation Domination” is focused on a
specific strategy. We’re focused on a whole series of dozens of strategies. And by the way, much of what he’s doing is very “spammy”.
We’re focused on doing longer term things. We cover some of those things in just the one week, where we talk about the content sharing sites and we reference it back to the social bookmarking sites…
But we’re so much bigger than him, by the way, we only cost, like, $100 more than his program does. So you get 90% more, 100% more than he does for $100 more….”
Here's a link to the replay of the teleseminar:
http://instantteleseminar.com/?eventid=1628391
(Crowther's 4-minute answer to my question begins at: 56:55
and ends around 01:00:45)
*
I personally didn't sign up for Conversation Domination because it wasn't affordable at the time. But I wanted to because I thought the pre-launch videos were great.
My financial circumstances are better now and when I started to get emails promoting Stompernet's SMART coaching, I thought, "Hold up, maybe I should consider signing up with them".
I've been dibbing and dabbling with social marketing for several months now so I know its effectiveness. However, one of my main concerns is that some of the strategies being taught are borderline "spammy", more of "hit-or-miss" and lack stability as far as the search engines.
Now I expected Crowther to differentiate Stompernet's product from Conversation Domination, but his statement can be heard as going at
the credibility of Schwartz's Conversation Domination.
What do you all think?
Any Warriors members of Conversation Domination, SMARTS or both?
I'm sure both programs are excellent but if you had to, which one would you choose?
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Madgran |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 18:05:37
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Hmmmmm.... this is a tough one, I don't know Conversation Domination at all, but having gone through the Stompernet SMARTS i was highly impressed with it (just can't afford it right now, otherwise I would give it a try).
Thing is, today you have a money back guarantee with almost every offer out on the web, so try it out and see for yourself.... if you're not happy ask for your money back?
All the best in choosing.... do let us know....
Thanks. |
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Wah Bhatti |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 19:15:09
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im sure that both howie and smarts offer great value
you need to go with who you feel more comtable with
www.smmtalk.com/ is a new social media forum
Ashwin has now joined us in our smm team
smmwhiz.com
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n/a |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 19:41:46
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I would personally go through SMARTS. Don Crowther is a good teacher and they definitely put a lot of money and time into the training program.
I have a 6-DVD set of a seminar that was put on by Howie. While it's ok, I don't think he's a particularly effective teacher. Some people can do things effectively and just not be very good at conveying them. I just found that he tends to go on and on and rehash points over and over. Also, he'll kind of explain a really long way to do something and then say something like 'we have programmers that automate this and churn out hundreds of these sites for us. And really that's what you need to do, because you make less with more these days so you need to keep scaling it out. But you can also do it the manual way". Ok, but will it be effective?
Therefore, I would agree with Crowthers assessment. I'm sure SMARTS is more of a long-term approach to properly using Social Media, while I can easily see the stuff Howie teaches becoming outdated quickly as Social Media sites evolve. |
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howieS |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 20:03:49
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I am known as an aggressive marketer - but I am also a nice guy . .
I was a bit surprised to see Don's comments.
Since I have never met him and he admits he hasn't seen Conversation Domination - he kind of went on the offensive.
So I will take the "nice" side of this and let my site and my member rankings stand on their own for you to judge.
quote : Here's what Crowther said:
What I’m saying is that “Conversation Domination” is focused on a
specific strategy. We’re focused on a whole series of dozens of strategies. And by the way, much of what he’s doing is very “spammy”.
I haven't seen SMARTS - so I don't know their dozen strategies.
But FOCUS = SUCCESS in my 9 years of marketing online full time.
So if one focused strategy works than I don't see a problem with it.
As for "spammy". I do call my program "Gray Hat". Trust me I have a dark "black hat" marketing past, this is not "spammy" - if you want to see "spammy" I will pull out some of my old stuff 
quote : Here's what Crowther said:
But we’re so much bigger than him, by the way, we only cost, like, $100 more than his program does. So you get 90% more, 100% more than he does for $100 more….”
I didn't know we were playing the size matters game . . .
I think RESULTS MATTER:
You can watch my live rankings for Christmas toys and Halloween costumes along with my exact affiliate earninings . . .
http://www.conversationdomination.com/rankings.html
On price:
Conversation Domination is $195 per month (I think lower then their split payment offer - you can check).
And we have a 30 day money back guarantee - so you can try our site out and judge it for yourself.
quote : Now I expected Crowther to differentiate Stompernet's product from Conversation Domination, but his statement can be heard as going at
the credibility of Schwartz's Conversation Domination.
All is fair in love and war, so instead of me firing back - I invite you to review what our members are doing with Conversation Domination:
http://www.conversationdomination.com/rankings.html
My final comment - we released Conversation Domination in September 2007 - 5 months before SMARTS (and we add content each and every week) and we have over 1,000 members.
We were the first to bring these Web 2.0 strategies to dominate full pages of Google to the market.
Now you have both sides of the story.
Added:
I skimmed through the audio recording, Don mentioned playing around with Web 2.0 for only 6 months. I have had a full team of people hitting this for 18 months (well over a year before I released Conversation Domination . . .)
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howieS |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 20:13:29
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quote : joeyconnolly: I have a 6-DVD set of a seminar that was put on by Howie. While it's ok, I don't think he's a particularly effective teacher. Some people can do things effectively and just not be very good at conveying them. I just found that he tends to go on and on and rehash points over and over.
We all have different teaching styles. So I have no problem with this comment. I always say in my IM products that I am NOT for everyone :)
quote : joeyconnolly: Also, he'll kind of explain a really long way to do something and then say something like 'we have programmers that automate this and churn out hundreds of these sites for us. And really that's what you need to do, because you make less with more these days so you need to keep scaling it out. But you can also do it the manual way". Ok, but will it be effective?
Which event DVDs were these from? Traffic Tactics? Adsense Immersion?
Conversation Domination is about Web 2.0 NOT page-generation . . .
So the above comment is about a completely different traffic strategy . . . So, we can keep our comments on the right product / strategy :)
quote : joeyconnolly: Therefore, I would agree with Crowthers assessment. I'm sure SMARTS is more of a long-term approach to properly using Social Media, while I can easily see the stuff Howie teaches becoming outdated quickly as Social Media sites evolve.
Outdated? We add content to Conversation Domination weekly, and have done so for the past 5 months. I also have a full time team testing Web 2.0 sites daily. There are both short-term and long-term approaches to social media (we actually teach both). But outdated - NEVER.
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Ross Goldberg |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 20:35:57
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I have seen conversation domination and have not seen Stomper's new one. Yet, I'm totally irritated with the crappy comments made toward Howie. As someone who knows him personally, I strongly suggest that the guys over at Stomper take the time to investigate someone better before bashing them.
I buy products all the time before I promote them and don't bash someone unless I see that the product stinks first.
I know for a fact that Howie's tactics work. I've used them and will continue to do so.
I've also seen Howie teach and love his approach. If you want a sales pitch, Howie is the wrong guy. If you want real content that you can use, he's exactly who you should be listening to.
While I haven't seen Stompernet's new one, I have seen the original Stomper and must say I was quite underwhelmed. I found the tactics to be old news that most blogs covered in more detail. Definitely not worth $900 per month. My hope is that their new course is better, but I doubt it.
I strongly recommend Conversation Domination for anyone that is looking to dominate any niche. It works. |
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Jason Moffatt |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 20:53:18
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I won't even comment on SMARTS cuz I have no clue
at all.
I will say... "Howie is the man".
He is very sharing, generous, and doesn't hold back.
Is his style for everyone? Not at all.
But I've found his demeanor and teaching to be straight
up, honest, and very effective.
Personally, I've been dogging Web 2.0 and social media
for a long time because of the dismal conversion rates.
But Howie is one of the few guys I've found that can
actually make a lot of money using these properties and
has been doing so for longer then anyone I know. |
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Dr.Mike |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:09:35
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| I know Don from years past and I don't think (I hope) he meant to intentionally disparage Howie's credibility, and the results his students have had. I have no problem with espousing the benefits of your own product and service, but Don freely admits he's not familiar with Conversation Domination, so bashing it beforehand I think is unwarranted, let alone being able to comment on its effectiveness. |
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dll12677 |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:24:28
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I have to say that though I haven't joined Conversation Domination, just the stuff from the pre-launch videos intrigued me. I took just the little nuggets from those videos and experienced almost instant success!
I think Howie's right in characterizing his methods as "gray hat" and frankly there's nothing wrong with that.
It's funny because when I saw that the Stompernet guys were releasing their own Web 2.0/Social Marketing program, I thought, "They're a little late, aren't they?"
Still, I know that Stompernet seem to have a solid reputation at producing excellent products.
My concerns with Social Marketing are not directed specifically toward Conversation Domination or SMARTS. The effectiveness of Web 2.0 marketing to dominate the search engines is proven. But with all the praise, the "spammy" issue has also been raised throughout the IM community about Web 2.0 marketing. So, like Howie said, there are both sides to the story.
I'm sure both Conversation Domination and SMARTS are excellent programs, but they are so similar that it would seem counter-productive to invest in both.
With social marketing being all the rage these day, I think it's good to have discussion about the good, bad & ugly concerning this relatively new method to reach targeted markets.
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dll12677 |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:34:55
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quote : Originally posted by Dr.Mike
I know Don from years past and I don't think (I hope) he meant to intentionally disparage Howie's credibility, and the results his students have had. I have no problem with espousing the benefits of your own product and service, but Don freely admits he's not familiar with Conversation Domination, so bashing it beforehand I think is unwarranted, let alone being able to comment on its effectiveness.
Well, I agree with you Dr. Mike, I don't think Don meant to disparage Howie's credibility. But if you read his statement and listen to the teleseminar, he seems to imply; that the methods in Conversation Domination are "very spammy", is not his conclusion but are what he gathered from some of the members of Conversation Domination that he "talked to"....
Ofcourse, it all depends on what your definition of "spammy" is. What is "spammy" to some is simply "grey hat" or "aggressive" to others. |
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n/a |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:36:59
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I don't know what course it was Howie, but a mastermind workshop is ringing a bell.
You're right, your techniques are not for everyone, which is what I was saying. For me, I watched and watched, and didn't think the content was very well put together or even accurate for that matter, particularly the SEO section.
But the part that really stuck out was the info-product section. You made mention of how you build the list, make the product, and write the salesletter. Essentially, you put together sub-par products written by shoddy elance writers because people will buy it. You say over and over that your products aren't great, they are just good enough. You even say that in your bullet points on your salesletter you put pagenumbers on there, but the pagenumbers are just made up. They can't go to those pagenumbesr to find that information, but you said nobody pays attention.
So if you're willing to do that to a niche market, what makes me think you wouldn't do it to IM'ers?
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Steve Iser |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:41:32
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All I know is that I told a student of mine to go buy Conversation Domination and I've never even seen the product.
He's ranking top 10 on some of his keywords now.
Whatever dude - who cares. Results speak louder.
Steve |
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howieS |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:46:22
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quote : joeyconnolly:
I don't know what course it was Howie, but a mastermind workshop is ringing a bell.
Yep, that would be it. 2 years ago . . .
On infoproduct creation NOT Web 2.0 . . .
Lets make sure we are commenting on the right products guys.
quote : joeyconnolly:
You're right, your techniques are not for everyone, which is what I was saying. For me, I watched and watched, and didn't think the content was very well put together or even accurate for that matter, particularly the SEO section.
I'd be happy to have a SEO conversation with you outside of this thread - you can PM me.
I will let one of my members comment on my SEO skills :)
"When I want to know something about SEO or Web 2 traffic, Howie's the guy I turn to for the real nitty gritty on what flat-out works and, just as importantly, what does not. There's no fluff or "hypotheses". Howie's the real deal and provides you with the real nuts and bolts of what it takes to get the job done. If you want to know how to get the search engines working in your favor, then tap into what Howie has for you right now. I'd rate him as one of the SEO Masters of the Universe."
Dan Hatfield
quote : joeyconnolly: But the part that really stuck out was the info-product section. You made mention of how you build the list, make the product, and write the salesletter. Essentially, you put together sub-par products written by shoddy elance writers because people will buy it. You say over and over that your products aren't great, they are just good enough. You even say that in your bullet points on your salesletter you put pagenumbers on there, but the pagenumbers are just made up. They can't go to those pagenumbesr to find that information, but you said nobody pays attention.
Oh boy are you taking this OUT OF CONTEXT. This is talking about creating niche reports. NOT training material for a membership site.
quote : joeyconnolly: So if you're willing to do that to a niche market, what makes me think you wouldn't do it to IM'ers?
Man, you missed the point. Go here - watch the videos, read the testimonials:
http://www.conversationdomination.com/rankings.html
Make sure you watch ALL the videos on the page . . .
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howieS |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 21:48:47
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quote : Steve said: All I know is that I told a student of mine to go buy Conversation Domination and I've never even seen the product.
He's ranking top 10 on some of his keywords now.
Whatever dude - who cares. Results speak louder.
Thanks Steve, this is a great summary for this thread :)
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n/a |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 22:29:43
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quote : Yep, that would be it. 2 years ago . . .
On infoproduct creation NOT Web 2.0 . . .
Lets make sure we are commenting on the right products guys.
Oh please man, give me a break. I think I made it clear what product it was in the original post if you would have read it. The point was the give examples of previous work you've done. You can say it was 2 years old, but when I watched the videos it was less than 1 year old and the SEO information was still not very good. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were teaching to newbies or maybe the time the video was made, but the information was inaccurate even in 2004-2005.
quote : I'd be happy to have a SEO conversation with you outside of this thread - you can PM me.
From those videos, your SEO style appears to me to be throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks. And then just scaling the thing out like crazy. That's fine if you have the resources, but I don't necessarily call it SEO knowledge. I call it winning by sheer volume, the modern day equivalent of throwing up thousands of Traffic Generator pages, which I believe was the point that Don was trying to make. That's not a bad thing, but how easily replicatable is that by your students? Judging by the questions from the people in the video, I'm about positive that nobody knew what you were talking about, especially by the lady that had been to about 5 of your seminars and didn't even have a site up yet.
quote : Oh boy are you taking this OUT OF CONTEXT. This is talking about creating niche reports. NOT training material for a membership site.
No, it was about creating infoproducts that you sell, the reports were just a component of the teaching. I'm quite positive. So are you telling me you're denying the whole 'page number' thing and how you just made up information for the sales page that wasn't in the ebook.
I don't care how you justify it, cheap ebooks vs. membership sites. The bottom line is that it's a product that you created and sold it.
I would offer to go back and pull exact quotes, but I don't really care or feel like doing it. All I know is that I got a bad impression for how you market products, no matter the niche or dollar size. I'm not a white-hat purist, but I think if people are paying money, you should deliver a decent product for that money. And you were advocating sounds like throwing crap together so you can collect a few bucks.
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jdh358 |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 22:33:17
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I think I can begin to understand how people could be oblivious to the fact that social marketing is not new.
It seems the guys who have been doing this for quite awhile now, like Howie and me, haven't been as effective at getting the word out as we thought.
This despite Authority Black Book being downloaded over 40000 times and ranked as #1 by Mashable.com over Seth Godin and other luminaries in social marketing.
Mashable is 5 million visitors strong each month - it's not invisible. Nor were the promotions for Conversation Domination and all the social marketing calls I gave last year, publicly, freely.
We've been doing social marketing for a long time now. The supposition that it is just getting to be important enough to pay attention to, or worse, that you'd be getting in on the ground floor today, is ludicrous.
I have 400 members at ASC and 300 members at Social Power Linking laughing their asses off at the notion.
Howie's folks and mine mingle a lot. They all are going "are people for real? are they really shocked at all this "new" information?"
In the end, there's no one to blame but ourselves. We didn't build a massive list and get every guru on the planet to promote what we were doing in 2006, so I guess we didn't reach everyone.
But that we didn't reach Warriors - now that's a surprise.
Howie is the first person to cop to everything he does and the level of "spammy-ness" it might have. No one will ever get the jump on him on that. He is Mr. Full disclosure and I have all the call recordings to prove it.
So whatever anyone else has to say about him can either be disproven from scores of hours of public calls or by Howie's own admission, which, like his experience in social marketing, came much earlier than the rest of the experts.
I guess we just have to do a better job of letting people know what we're up to - and just what they've missed in the last 2 years that would make them think a site like Facebook is any part of the cutting-edge of social marketing today. |
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Jason Dolman |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 22:47:17
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Howie,
Before you reply to joeyconnolly's last post, think about this:
"You can't be all things to all people"
... or how about...
"You can't please everyone"
At the end of the day... you and I know what you're teaching works.
Whether that's the way someone wants to be taught or whether it's
something they agree will/does work is an entirely different topic
all together.
Jason
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howieS |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 23:01:01
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Thanks Jason
you are 100% correct
I won't pick apart joeyconnolly, I actually don't know who he is and have never seen any of his sites / products to judge.
But again, his points on product quality are completely out of context. He is pulling one point out of a 2 day seminar that was discussing a $20 ebook in niche markets such as 'dog walking' . . .
Comparing this point to my product quality of Conversation Domination is insulting to our 1,000 members.
But I will leave it there -
Since I am wrapping up day 2 of a 5 day Juice fast and Detox (just got back from the marketers cruise w/ Filsaime, Shefren, Paulie, Anik, Ross, Simon, Donna, and many more great friends) - so I am feeling more peaceful then usual :)
I have one more "cold green soup" to drink tonight.
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jdh358 |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 00:04:31
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I just ate at Penn Station. Greasy. Filling. Totally clogged an artery.
I somehow feel like I must be happier than you grass-eating karate freaks! Specially with non-lite beer on occasion. :) |
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Dave Origano |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 01:30:51
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What I noticed, and I think a lot of you did... is that someone is trying to differentiate and even beating a competitor by making claims.
Wether it's true or not, and Howie is even coming forward about this, I find it a very bad thing to do - and thus decided not to join the Stomper program, or anything else put out by Crowther.
It would just give me a very bad feeling...
-Dave |
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ShelbyL |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 14:55:20
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Wow, I've never seen an attempted Howie Bashing before. I'm considering taking screen shots and putting it in a short 7$ report in a WSO. I'd probably make a killing!
Anyway, I just wanted to drop my 2 cents worth in since my company does a LOT of work for Howie.
I don't know the guy from stompernet, although I have heard really good things about him, so it surprises me that he made the comments he did. I'm sure he was trying hard to protect his products and didn't think they would end up here, publicized. Although, anything you say at a seminar is fair game, so I suppose you have to expect that to a degree.
However, I do know Howie and because of my business am forced to study his material and trainings. (I know you feel sorry for me "HAVING" to study with Howie.)
I've found his teachings to be top notch. He's genuine, intelligent and action-oriented. He doesn't just teach stuff he's heard about, he teaches the things that are MAKING him and others very successful.
Honestly, without knowing the SMART material, I would still have to say that anyone claiming to teach the conversation domination material in one week would be hard for me to believe.
Anyway, I just wanted to add my Howie Testimony to the mix. :0)
~Shelby
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fortune |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 00:19:27
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| I definitely think SMARTS is the way to go. |
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howieS |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 21:21:07
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Fortune - that's a short sentence. Can you go into more detail on why its the "way to go"?
Are you a member there?
Have you watched the Conversation Domination ranking videos?
For a new forum member with 6 posts thats not a strong post.
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Wah Bhatti |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 21:57:15
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all i know is in direct sales never knock a competitor it only adds revelence to them
in social meadia marketing you are you reputation and your viral marketability im sure if this was a socail site then both contenders would have lost
i dont now about Crowther but Howies every where but a lot of us have an alias or 2 thats social meadia marketing and
scott martin does a good job as does Aswin
woo may be more aliases
just keep twittering lol |
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Ephrils |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 18:29:03
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I just got a spambot post on a board of mine with a link to this topic.
quote :
Learn The best web 2.0 startagies for your buisness
Going Natural 2.0 shows you how to double your search engine traffic, increase your sales by sales by 200%, and just plain out dominate Google.
Ever wonder how to suck every last penny you can out of Google. Still trying to figure out how to get loads of free organic traffic straight to your money sites? Andy Jenkins and company over at StomperNet are releasing a series of episodes that will show you just how to do that.
This is an experimental Going Natural 2.0 authority hub I've set up on Squidoo to deliver all of the latest news, updates, strategies, and more from the GN2 crew over at StomperNet. You won't find a more complete resource GN2 anywhere on the Net.
Do me a favor (and yourself), go ahead and bookmark the GN2 authority hub (ctrl + D) so you can easily find your way back. Other than that, continue reading below for all the latest...
[LINKED>Conversation Domination Review[/LINKED>
So yeah... whoever's doing it, stop spamming my board. Thanks :) |
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Judy Kettenhofen |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 19:41:50
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Wow ...
I have to admit that I am a bit dismayed by Crowther's response.
It sounded more like he was tryin' to do a little side-step and doing it poorly.
I'm not sure whether that's more disturbing, or the fact that he didn't seem
to be knowledgeable about other products in the same space ?
I met Howie in San Fran and I think he's great. |
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rickyou |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 07:33:23
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sorry, I just passed by and saw some huge arguments here. I happened to watch all Stompernet video as well as conversation domination video. Here are some of my opinions :
Why people are supporting Stompernet and bashing Conversation Domination :
- Stompernet provides very clear preview on the program and they actually provide some good information for "freeloader" (even though I already know the methods and I'm surprised Stompernet is actually revealing my method that I have discovered on my own). On the contrary, Conversation Domination only provides the result, so "freeloader" cannot know what is going on in Conversation DOmination at all. So I would like to assume that most people who are talking here do not know in-depth what is going on in both program, it is just happens that they see some so-called "great" videos from Stompernet for free and they are advocating Stompernet now. Personally, I do not think that these people or neither me will fork out $600 per month to join Stompernet.
- however, to be honest, by looking carefully at the videos in Conversation Domination, I do learn A LOT. How to say, Stompernet is stingy is a sense that they only provide some cliche sites such as Digg, Propeller, Reddit, Squidoo etc, but I manage to find some other useful sites ;)
Just some of my fair opinions.
Rick |
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Nicholas Ho |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 07:37:41
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My personal view is that, in this matter, no one have ever seen or experience each others' program at all yet.
Thus, if you've never seen or experience the product, pleas don't make any comment.
Yes, don't comment at all.
Please note that not all product are for all people.
And the thing is that the customers should and will find what is suitable for them and their business.
I am surprise why people make comment when they did not even try out the product.
Whatever Don Crowther's intention is, don't make comment if never try out.
It is understandable that everyone wants the best marketing for their product.
But this is not the way it should be.
Howie, I support the fact that you came up and make things clear and defend yourself.
The answer will finally goes back to the customers.
What kind of product suits their strategy and so on.
Come on, don't tell me everything suits your business?
No disrespect for any party.
I wanted to said that there are money back guarantee for both product.
If you are not satisfied, then ask for a refund.
Howie is here to stay, just shoot him a PM.
Cheers!
-Nicholas Ho
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TJ Kazunga |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 08:11:10
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Let me first say that I am neither a member of CD of SMARTS, but obviously followed them both (the launch, reviews etc).
SMARTS was a great launch in most ways (and probably the most important way - the "Kaching" Way!), but like many I question how "new" the info was (Tiffany Dow's Squidoo report was stuffed full of good advice, and most IMers have being banging on about Hub et al for a time), but what ruined it for me was how "hypey" I felt it was. I know I know, we are marketers and we all hype to some extent - just my feelings ok? 
I also felt the example of dominating the first 8 pages for the term Going Natural (a great name for a naturist society by the way LOL) was pretty fatuous and cynical - now, if it had been for "making money online" that would have been something!
(Ironic though how Scribd have just banned follow links - maybe is a sign of things to come perhaps.
However, I do recall Howie promoting many of the techniques previously, such as social bookmarking your articles etc, which at the time was somewhat new.
They obviously all deserve respect for their achievements, but if I was to choose one, based on the above my gut feeling would be for CD (also because I really like the Authority Blackbook crowd, who, let's be honest, probably kicked this whole area of marketing off).
Talking of gut feelings, the late scientist Carl Sagan was being pushed by an interviewer about life on other planets - he was like "but if you had to call it, what would your gut feeling be?". Carl Sagan famously replied, "But why should I think with my gut, I have a fairly decent brain!" |
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GoogleMcDougall |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 00:59:18
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I agree with Ross, stop knocking Howie.
Howie's course is excellent!!!
What Howie teaches can be used for white, grey are outright blackhat.
I have written a free report called...
Get this...
The Constant Conversation
I was in the process of writing it when I first met Howie. We were both speaking at a conference in Vegas.
I have written about Howie's material in my report and I think it might be an excellent starting point for everyone and will likely have the "light bulb over the head" effect after you read it.
Anyway, Howie is a good friend of mine and his training is incredible. |
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Judy Kettenhofen |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 01:08:43
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Ed Dale has some pretty good stuff in the thirty day challenge site, as well.
Some things he doesn't really cover in detail -- but the observer looks over
his shoulder at some of the things he's doing and, if observes carefully, can
get a pretty good idea of some things to do.
Same with any demos -- Howie gave a great demo in San Fran.
Nevertheless, I'm not at all dissing SMARTS.
The eye-tracking stuff with scrutinizer is toooo coool. |
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tot |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 23:32:59
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It's funny that this forum comes up #5 for "going natual 2.0". I don't know either IMer involved in CD or SMARTS.
At any rate, I thought it was odd for Stompernet to be so apparently excited about dominating the first 8 pages of Google for a term they invented. I could dominate Google for "zdfhslfhslfs" if I wanted.
That example led me to think that the program was geared towards newbies who would not know better.
I was also a bit taken aback to see that leading everyone to Scribd made Scribd change their TOS about nofollow. Wow. Talk about power. A company -- a bunch of IMers -- can really ruin it for everyone else.
As for Howie Haters, well, when people don't like you, it means you show up in the world. It's certainly more interesting than people not caring one way or the other.
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warner444 |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 00:11:17
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I vote - Jack Humphery's Social Power Linking !!!!!
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rouhi |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 17:40:25
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I have not seen the content of SMART, however I think its bit unprofessional from Don's part to promote his own program by giving grappy comments about competitor's product.
If it really is great program, no comparison is needed to anything else.
At the same time I have to say that Howie is one of the most brilliant marketer's
I have had change to talk to. During the recent Internet Marketing Cruise (with Mike Filsaime, Simon Leung, Ross Goldberg and many others) he shared a lot of killer info and gave a many cool tips.
Also during the last days I have been watching Conversation Domination videos and print outs and have to say its very impressive stuff.
I also think Conversation Domination is the right program if you want to achieve success with 2.0 on the long run. Howie has very big team which is tracking and testing new Web 2.0 sites all the time.
Lasse
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hughmac |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 19:59:48
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had a look at conversation domination for a month and i think its excellent!
SMARTS hasn't kicked of properly yet so the jury's still out, however this is also shaping up to be a superb program.
i would run both if i could afford to!
my humble opinion is that you could invest in either or both with confidence plus each have a money back guarantee.
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terrapin719 |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 00:44:23
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| I just got spam registration on my forum with a link to this thread as the user "smarts" url, what the hell? Odd way to spam, but whatever smartss@bggmail.byethost13.com plz stop spamming people and get a clue. |
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JustinBrooke |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 21:58:45
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I propose a duel... Hi Howie, yes it's that Justin ;-)
The one who's articles you had removed from sites. And
the one running that adwords ad that you don't like.
I first want to say I think you are a great marketer
and none of the competition has been in vengeance.
Hell I can't even call my own coaching program by it's
own name, I first have to say it's "like conversation
domination" and then I can go into social media marketing
talk.
However, I am just drooling to get a social marketing
challenge between you, the stomper guys, and I going.
We can argue all day long as to who's methods are stronger
but a contest will prove who can really piss the farthest
Gentlemen... Will you put your dukes up or walk away? I'm
very ready to put my gloves on!
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Dean Shainin |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 22:28:11
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quote : Originally posted by warner444
I vote - Jack Humphery's Social Power Linking !!!!!
I second that.
Fantastic tool for sure. Talk about saving time.
Dean |
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freotech |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 01:16:32
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I joined SMARTS right from the launch. I did not even read the salespage,i just scrolled down and hit the buy button. I was too keen to get in the first 150 as a bonus u get a set of stompernet 15 DVDs. I was disappointed as I came out 167 !!!
I have bought almost all kind of IM packages - Butterflymarketing,CMSinfusion, secret classroom and was really with many of them !
So far, i have been really impressed with SMARTs. i already new a lot about web 2.0 but Don Crowther is really up to date . His first call, he mentioned about howto.wired.com (wiki style)and how there were many top rankings on google - even pages with no content at all.
Here are the strenths of SMARTs :
1) Clear objective and well structured - there is a weekly syllabus
2) Assignments - sounds like a uni course
3) 10+ videos each week
4) Weekly coaching call
5) Buzzing smarts forum - also ppl are getting into mastermind group. Imagine 500+ members promoting each others SB profiles
I did not join conversation domination....so i cant say that SMARTS is better. But all i can say...it is quite impressive..so far !
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Conversation Domination vs. Stompernet's SMART