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espacecadet |
 Posted - 03/25/2008 : 09:41:23
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I thought about keeping this to myself, but then I thought, well, screw it. I'm pretty fed up with eBay's fee structure and their ridiculous feedback system so I probably won't be using it anyway.
Could I have sold this in a WSO? Maybe, but I don't think I should since I have received a LOT of help from this forum. (Don't let me see you trying to sell this in a WSO!)
So let me give ya something that may/may not be a violation of eBay TOS (I haven't checked yet).
The problem: Can't sell digital downloads on eBay, so you have to burn your product to disc and snail mail it to them, and that ups your cost and takes time, and we all know buyers want it immediately, while you make the most profit.
So give it to them digitally anyway! Don't burn it to CD!
In your auction listing say something like,
"You are bidding on a blank piece of paper that will be mailed to you. Please pay $12.97 (or whatever price you are charging for your product) via PayPal and when I get the notification of payment, which will include your email address, I will email you the download link to this ebook and you can download it immeadiately."
You can choose to actually mail them the piece of paper and spend almost .50 for postage if you want, but it really won't be necessary.
Of course, if you do, this will provide you yet one more opportunity to sell. Make it a sales flyer for your other products.
Like I said, I haven't checked to see if this is a violation of eBay TOS, so tread carefully.
There's more than one way to skin a eBay!
Allen Farlow |
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Ted Kopelli |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 09:45:02
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Good luck tinting that white paint gray. ;)
No download policy is pretty hard to get around without putting your account at risk.
CD dropshipping only costs you $1.75 with Kunaki. The customer is paying shipping anyway.
Ted |
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shreekay85 |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 09:54:42
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| there are alot of ways to overcome it mate.i discovered a fabulous way,but shall keep mum in case the ebay gods are watching..haz.. |
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espacecadet |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 09:59:30
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C'mon, shreekay85, grow a pair and let us know! Flaunt your vast knowledge before the eBay gods!
Allen Farlow |
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Wakunahum |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:08:40
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| Can someone link where it says you can't sell items via download? |
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Debbie Songster |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:09:15
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Allen
That might work except for one thing - well a couple things... but the main reason is:
PayPal
They are looking at "high risk" items and will hold your funds until you provide them with a tracking number. So, they could get wise to your idea and add cd products to their list of "high risk" items.
I see a couple members in this forum have already suffered the "hold funds" crap. One of those people is drop shipping items.
I know eBay has had their fair share of scammers and retards using their services but this time it appears you are guilty until proven innocent.
I'm not thrilled with all the changes - some of them like the "hold funds" crap is ridiculous.
I've always told my clients NOT to rely on eBay. Its their playground and we are just guests. They set the rules and can change them anytime they want.
I saw the writing on the wall with eBay ages ago. Good timing - all of my clients now have their own web stores in addition to selling on eBay. Eventually they will phase out their eBay sales (or scale down) as their own stores mature.
As for your idea above. Sure I'd offer them a download link but I think you should still send them the cd. You aren't going to be able to put tracking on a letter without increased expense so you might as well send them the cd.
Besides, creating a physical product will make your item appear more professional. Increasing the perceived value.
If you have a quality product and not just a $2 item, making a cd isn't that expensive. Especially if you do it right.
professional cd creation $1.60 ea
professional graphics for cd $50.00
shipping box for cd $0.30 or you can use a padded envelop $0.20
First Class mail with delivery confirmation $1.82 each (if 4oz)
It cost very little to provide a product that appears to be of quality.
If something looks like its professionally done then you will get less complaints and better feedback. This will also help with your refund rate. Issue refunds when they return the item - most people won't so your refund rate will drop.
There are a lot of good reasons to send a physical product in addition to the download.
Gee maybe I should do the WSO :) LOL
Debbie |
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baronetta |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:17:37
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quote : Originally posted by Wakunahum
Can someone link where it says you can't sell items via download?
This is a new policy according to this announcement:
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200803241300132.html
Looks like the good news is the eBay classified ads can still be used to sell digital products.
~ Ziva
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Wakunahum |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:30:29
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I'm sure there are some "work arounds" for this situation.
Think of ways of maximizing exposure and the dollar value per customer since you are probably going to have less customers buying a cd than downloading your product.
1. When they get the cd include a piece of paper with an ad on it upselling them with other products.
2. You could have a link included with the package to an offer that allows them to get an additional bonus if they share the book they bought with friends (i.e. give 3 email addresses for another bonus). The friends can be new leads since they can download the book you were selling for 99 cents.
3. This one is a little more sneaky but... Get a nice graphic that shows your product with a visible www.yourdomain.com on it. Then when you list your cd in the auctions people will visit your site. On the site just give them a download of your product for free. With this I wouldn't have a buy it now so that the www.yourdomain.com shows alot longer in the listing.
4. Give them a bonus download after they pay. I didn't see anything in ebay's new policy that said you can't give them an instant download of a different product or bonus when they pay for an item. You could also encourage them to share the bonus download with others to gain more leads.
quote : Originally posted by baronettaquote : Originally posted by Wakunahum
Can someone link where it says you can't sell items via download?
This is a new policy according to this announcement: http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200803241300132.htmlLooks like the good news is the eBay classified ads can still be used to sell digital products. ~ Ziva
Thanks for the link. |
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:31:50
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Maybe the new policy sucks, but it's their right to set their own policies. It sucks when people are always trying to "get around" someone's TOS just because they don't like them. I mean, what ever happened to honesty, integrity, and ethics?
I'm not talking about just this thread about eBay, but also all those who are looking to game Craigslist, MySpace and others just to make a buck. But oh, the righteous indignation that would ensue if someone violated YOUR site or rules. |
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espacecadet |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:36:13
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Thanks, Debbie. Nice post. But aren't you assuming that PayPal will consider it a high risk item? They might not. Any physical product could be assumed to be a high risk item by PayPal, resulting in funds being frozen. How many of those 'mystery bag' listings get flagged as high risk?
Of course, instead of a blank piece of paper you could create a short report to mail to them, an actual product they'd be bidding on, and the real product would be a free bonus, which will be an instant download. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
So everyone is going to switch to CDs now? I foresee products on CD becoming passe' and decreasing in value the more they are used, just as digital download ebooks did. Yet as they eventually begin to decline, your product and shipping and handling costs will increase, giving us a catch 22 situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Oh, well. At least for the present CDs still have good perceived value in buyers minds, so sell the hell out of them while you can still get a decent profit out of them.
Allen Farlow |
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shreekay85 |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:39:45
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quote : Originally posted by Mike Patrick
Maybe the new policy sucks, but it's their right to set their own policies. It sucks when people are always trying to "get around" someone's TOS just because they don't like them. I mean, what ever happened to honesty, integrity, and ethics?
I'm not talking about just this thread about eBay, but also all those who are looking to game Craigslist, MySpace and others just to make a buck. But oh, the righteous indignation that would ensue if someone violated YOUR site or rules.
Mate Ethics is about people,NOT systems or policies.If the end user(buyer) gets what he wants,why is it unethical.If Ebay doesnt like it,its another issue,but nothing to do with ethics mate..
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William R Brandenburg |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:43:13
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What is interesting about this subject is this is the very reason for more stringent rules going into effect at eBay. If so many people had not tried to break the terms of service that had been laid out this new policy probably would never have come into effect.
It's those people that has such a high disregard for rules and regulations set forth by eBay which caused this turn of affairs of digital products. So instead of blaming eBay for the problem blame those who choose to circumvent the TOS laid down by eBay.
Would it not be a better business practice to find new ways to utilize the services of eBay within the limitations set forth by their rules and regulations? And in the process of doing so providing a more beneficial product and service for your potential customers.
Live life to the fullest |
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:50:44
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quote : Originally posted by shreekay85quote : Originally posted by Mike Patrick
Maybe the new policy sucks, but it's their right to set their own policies. It sucks when people are always trying to "get around" someone's TOS just because they don't like them. I mean, what ever happened to honesty, integrity, and ethics?
I'm not talking about just this thread about eBay, but also all those who are looking to game Craigslist, MySpace and others just to make a buck. But oh, the righteous indignation that would ensue if someone violated YOUR site or rules.
Mate Ethics is about people,NOT systems or policies.If the end user(buyer) gets what he wants,why is it unethical.If Ebay doesnt like it,its another issue,but nothing to do with ethics mate..
What a lame justification for violating someone else's property and terms of service.
You're right, ethics is about people. As it appears you have none, I will certainly never do business with you. |
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ValleyArch |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:59:24
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Seems to me that they want to clear up the endless listings of 1 cent books whilst advertising their relatively new classified ads service. This feedback solicitation reason seems to me to be a smoke screen. Clearly they understand the power of Ebay as a lead generation tool and hence the classified ads.
The question is, has anyone here used classified ads on Ebay and do they really work for the price? They must require a different strategy to the conventional listing method. |
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Debbie Songster |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 10:59:38
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William you are right - its the crooks and scammer who ruin it for everyone.
eBay's concern is feedback manipulation. Its easy to sell an ebook for $0.50 and get lots of feedback. In fact numbers of items sold is one of the criteria for powerseller status.
There have been plenty of ebooks written on the subject - how to become a powerseller in 30 days... etc.
Allen - PayPal can change their list of "high risk" items at any time.
Actually all is not lost for those people who want to sell downloadable products. You can create a classified ad. The listing lasts for 30 days. One of the drawbacks is people who buy via your classified can't leave feedback.
So for those people who were using their digital products to gain feedback - you will be out of luck.
I guess this all boils down to how you conduct business. If you do things above board then you should be ok.
For those who rely on eBay, you will just have to ride this wave out.
For the rest of us who use eBay as just another sales tool - we just need to change our methods to fit the new rules.
I don't have a problem with the physical product thing - I think its a good idea anyway. But I don't sell $.99 digital products and neither do my clients.
Debbie |
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research |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 11:30:17
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quote : Originally posted by Mike Patrick
Maybe the new policy sucks, but it's their right to set their own policies. It sucks when people are always trying to "get around" someone's TOS just because they don't like them. I mean, what ever happened to honesty, integrity, and ethics?
I'm not talking about just this thread about eBay, but also all those who are looking to game Craigslist, MySpace and others just to make a buck. But oh, the righteous indignation that would ensue if someone violated YOUR site or rules.
It seems to me to be a case of "the tail shaking the dog"
Folks don't like changes unless they go their way.
Like it or not . . . eBay is in a position to call the tune and dimiss those who they do not care for.
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bobsstuff |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 11:45:07
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In the ebay boards someone said the ebay's live chat response to this offering digital download as an option is not allowed. No written rules yet, so that is only "hearsay".
So you cannot offer the buyer either the CD or a digital download, based on what I am hearing, but it is not a written rule yet. |
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John Hocking |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 11:55:11
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I know is a hassle to send a real cd but having something tangible
in your hands ads value.
People are accustomed to going into a store, picking up a boz or
cd and having something in there hands when they leave.
It is hard to hold an ebook, audio or video in your hands.
Just make sure you add the cost of production into the starting
price of the auction or the shipping. The customer will cover
the cost.
I have not read the rules but is there a rule against giveing
a customer a download link in addition to sending them the cd in
the mail.
The customer would get access to the information they need and would
have a handy backup copy when it comes in the mail.
You can also offer previews of other products on the CD.
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supremesales |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 17:18:40
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| I for one sell 100% digital products on ebay. And no they are not ebooks. This new policy is like stealing $2000+ a month from me so I will be screwed. I've been thinking to use alternate ebay websites like ebay Australia, Malaysia, Philippines, and Singapore, hong kong. They are all in english. I plan on signing into those foreign ebays and list my digital wares there and have them show up on ebay U.S. This will only work however, if the foreign ebays do not have such policy and are not controlled by ebay U.S. Thoughts? |
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Valdor Kiebach |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 18:02:28
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quote : Originally posted by supremesales
I for one sell 100% digital products on ebay. And no they are not ebooks. This new policy is like stealing $2000+ a month from me so I will be screwed. I've been thinking to use alternate ebay websites like ebay Australia, Malaysia, Philippines, and Singapore, hong kong. They are all in english. I plan on signing into those foreign ebays and list my digital wares there and have them show up on ebay U.S. This will only work however, if the foreign ebays do not have such policy and are not controlled by ebay U.S. Thoughts?
ebay.co.uk has never had the download option, i have always had to go through the .com site. so i wouldnt even bother checking the uk site.
How much will ebay lose with all the ebay digital product only stores that close now. |
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supremesales |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 18:23:25
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I sell a specific computer program. I have seen the same thing being sold by a uk seller in ebay.uk as recently as last week. I realize there is no option to insert your download link into the listing. However, you can have it set up as such as when a paypal payment is made, an email will be sent to the buyer with the download link. This can be set up with e-junkie or payloadz. Just link them with paypal. Their server will know when a payment has been made to you.
Therefore, you do not need the insert link thingy that the .com provides. You only need to accept paypal. This should work on all other foreign ebays. However, paypal is not popular outside of Australia, uk, and Canada.
I'm sure most digital stores will close. That or get around the policy. |
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vikkitan |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 18:49:46
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I recently sign up online with an autoresponder company and thought that was it until I received a physical mail to my home address thanking me for signing up with them. Was I impressed with their service and professionalism.
Customer do feel good when they receive something physical. That is just my thought.
Vikki |
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Just Started Now This |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 20:58:04
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I don't think looking for clever ways around this policy will get you too far. We digital download sellers have been selling according to the rules and ebay comes along and says "sorry folks, can't do this anymore." How long do you think it would take before they shut you down for violating the rules?
And as far as mailing CD's, this is totally the opposite of what today's consumer's want. Are the big record companies selling CD's nowadays....or downloads?. I think eBayers buy the inexpensive $2-$5 dollar ebooks on impulse, simply because it's there, it's cheap, you get it in 2 minutes, and it's fun. For many, judging by the feedback numbers, it may be their first or one of their first ebay purchases and it helps to get them comfortable with the process without spending (or risking) a lot of money.
I would pay $2.99 for a 10 page ebook on recording techniques in the blink of an eye and be thrilled to be reading it a minute later. If I paid $6.99 and $3.00 shipping for the same pdf to come in the mail a week later on a CD, I'd feel ripped off by the product and probably leave neg feedback. I know there are more substantial, well written ebooks in the $10-20+ range and certainly these may (and do) sell in CD format. But for the fun little bread and butter cheapies this policy pretty much spells the end.
Now, I JUST opened a new id and store about 2 weeks ago for the sole purpose of selling cheap eBooks. I'm going to ask eBay for my $15.95 back as this store is of no use to me now. How do you see my chances of getting a refund? :-) |
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supremesales |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 21:05:58
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| You do realize that they just had a 30 free store special don't you? I just signed up for it cuz its free. I agree with you about the cd mailing. I don't think you will get your money back. |
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SasquatchSanta |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 22:32:13
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I’ve got to chime in here.
I have an eBay store that sells numerous Dan Kennedy and other marketing information and advice products that I’ve licensed from Kennedy and other authors. Even though Kennedy and many other authors have never licensed their products to be published and marketed in digital form MANY eBay merchants have been illegally marketing their products in digital format.
This has all gone on amidst repeated protests from authors and legitimate rule abiding merchants. When contacted (challenged) by the authors the guilty merchants would simply revert to selling physical products until the smoke cleared and then revert back to digital.
This illegal marketing of digital products has been a source of contention with both authors and licensees. It’s difficult for a legitimately licensed marketer selling physical products to compete with digital knock-off products in a price conscious market like eBay.
It’s my guess the eBay digital ban is a result of several authors threatening legal action against eBay.
I personally welcome the ban because it levels the playing field. Having said this, it’s a sad situation that a few merchants set on gaming the system have caused damage to some legitimate digital eBay merchants.
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Teo |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 16:35:42
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| This policy is only restricted to ebay US at the moment, so is possible to list ebooks in ebay Canada, UK, Australia |
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espacecadet |
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supremesales |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 17:03:01
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| Teo, How do you know that for sure? |
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Teo |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 19:01:46
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actually, I misspelt my question. I was suppose to say 'is it possible to list ebooks in ebay Canada, UK, Australia?
anyway, I'm from the UK, I tried listing in Canada without any problems so far, will try Austrailia next. |
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Kevin Riley |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 19:27:25
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quote : Originally posted by ValleyArch
Seems to me that they want to clear up the endless listings of 1 cent books whilst advertising their relatively new classified ads service. This feedback solicitation reason seems to me to be a smoke screen. Clearly they understand the power of Ebay as a lead generation tool and hence the classified ads.
The question is, has anyone here used classified ads on Ebay and do they really work for the price? They must require a different strategy to the conventional listing method.
I agree with eBay on the feedback solicitation problem. It's been a joke with those crappy 1 cent products being pumped out to build up feedback.
When the classified ads came out they provided a great tool for lead generation. Most people just never made use of it. I think you'll find it can work quite well for you.
I myself am guilty of not using them enough, but when I ran a few last year they brought in a lot of new prospects.
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JoeMack |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 19:37:46
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Kevin,
What do you suggest to those who have 20, 30, 100+ digital products for sale? Get classified ads for each of them?
And I'm not talking about the crappy 99 cent ebook kind. I have around 30 digital products that I sell on ebay.
Joe |
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coreytucker |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 20:58:18
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| wow this is news to me. I was just about to start using ebay to build a list, I will have to rethink my whole plan now. |
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VegasVince |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 23:15:40
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Perhaps the time has come to realize that fighting City Hall is equal to banging your testicles into a large oak tree. It hurts.
I will say it yet again.....
PayPal and Ebay are not GOD, people.
Many many people made millions long before either company even existed. A good IM'er is gonna make money with or without them.
A good marketer with a good product should spend their time marketing said product...rather then wasting time searching for loopholes to overcome the idiots who stop commerce at PayPal and Ebay.
A good offer will sell.
It will sell in good times and bad times.
And if you think your success depends on two mediums like PP and the Bay....you need to go back and do marketing 101.
When a company busts my balls for the honor of "giving them my money"....I just move along.
I don't need either of these two concerns to make money.
xxxVegas Vince |
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timesaver22 |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 03:06:09
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| I started selling on ebay a few years ago with only disks.then moved onto downloads im happy i never stoped the selling on disk its not that hard to make the move for the smaller seller but will i move all my sales to disk..... |
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Michisor |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 08:11:58
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Hello Warriors,
Yes, eBay came out of the blue with the banned of Digital Products, a lot of people was surprised and heart. But I know it in a second that we have to remain in the positive side because this will be temporary in a sense that all the people involved will find good ways to get around.
The Digital Products community is working day and night, I already know 2 publications, one will come out on 31st March, the other on 1st April. Both will offer solid solutions to this problem.
I’ll keep you post it!
Regards
Michaela |
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Sweet Jane |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 09:14:52
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Guys, ebay is also banning digital downloads in Australia for those warriors thinking of signing up for an account. Also, I chatted with live help the other day and it seems the bottom line is that they consider an email to a download link sent on the ebay platform to be in breach of the ban (not for websites and domain names according to ebay radio). So, consider snail mail the product and as a bonus (outside of the ebay environment) email the download the link. Just a thought.
Leanne |
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espacecadet |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 12:03:03
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Well, that's why I made the original post here, Sweet Jane.
I was suggesting basically the same thing, selling a physical product (even if it be only a blank piece of paper as I suggested in the original post) and then once you receive your buyer's email address from the PayPal Notification Of Payment, simply email them the download link for the product. I would not do it as a reply on eBay, but through my Yahoo account, thereby making the email completely seperate from eBay but for the fact that I connected with the buyer through eBay. eBay says that's all they do, connect buyers and sellers. They certainly use that excuse to protect themselves from liability when things go bad between buyers and sellers.
I don't think eBay has a legal leg to stand on if they suspend anyone's account simply because they sent a download link via email outside of the eBay system, but who's gonna spend the time and money to bother suing them? If they suspend my account, big deal. I don't rely on eBay for my main money and if they can do what they want, I can, too.
I need eBay about as much as they need me.
Allen Farlow
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 12:29:01
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quote : I don't think eBay has a legal leg to stand on if they suspend anyone's account simply because they sent a download link via email outside of the eBay system, but who's gonna spend the time and money to bother suing them?a
How do they NOT have a legal leg to stand on? It's their site, their TOS - they can toss off whomever they wish to get rid of. What "legal right" does someone have to use eBay? What could they sue eBay for - enforcing their own rules? |
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Getting Around eBays No-Download Policy