| Author |
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zsolt |
 Posted - 04/08/2008 : 13:34:34
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Of course, not every niche is occupied, but it sure seems like to me more often than not. I am newbie who just started to give some serious thoughts to IM. I don't have any experience or background in any kind of business or marketing. I have read many ebook lately, and 99% of them said you gotta find a niche where is a demand, but the competition is not too fierce. OK, sounds simple. But it not. In fact I find this task downright hard. One can only be good at so many thing. So you start searching among those topics and niches. You think you have some idea that might just work. There is a demand, you're good at it, have the needed skills. But then comes the part of "what about competition". And this is where I lose all my faith and enthusiasm. No matter what niche I have researched recently, I find that there are already at least a few well established names, companies, websites. There are alreaedy people who made themselves home in the niche, have good reputation, tons of traffic, excelent search engine rankings, etc.
I feel stuck at the very first step every ebook begins with: "find a niche". I feel like I am not making progress. I have doubts, fears. Shall I just jump into a niche where there are already some big dogs? Or keep on looking and find some very exotic niche there's probably not much demand for, and I don't know a lot about?
I got the newbies' blues, and don't yet know how to overcome it.
This afternoon I thought I had an excellent idea. My excitment only lasted a few minutes when I found out that my "this gotta be a winner" idea is not unique at all.
Gurus, newbies...how do/did you cope with frustration of not finding that money making niche. |
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jcoolbaugh |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 13:50:34
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Zsolt,
I'm afraid I'll have to respectfully disagree with those who say to stay out of an 'oversaturated' niche.
I released my first product at the beginning of last month in a VERY competitive niche (non-IM related); and have seen favourable results since then. To be perfectly honest, I haven't even had much time to market it, and yet sales have been trickling in on their own.
If there's one thing I've learned from being on this forum, it's that no matter how many products in a popular niche may be out there - people will ALWAYS be looking for the next big thing.
I say that if you've found a niche you are comfortable in, go for it! Forget about how many others there are out there. A hungry market means that there will always be customers waiting for you to show them the way.
JMHO 
Jessalynn |
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williamstarrett |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 13:56:34
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My advice? Learn how to fail faster. Quit thinking about all of it and just get started so you can make some mistakes to learn from.
Besides, if a niche isn't occupied, how is it actually a niche? A market is not a topic, a market is a group of hungry people.
Let me say that again- a market is people. Hungry ones. A group of them hungry for the same thing. The bigger the group, the more obsessed with finding an answer, and the more money they have, all the better.
Unique ideas are the hardest idea to sell. The easiest sale tends to be something popular and what people already know that they want (and are already asking for). Otherwise you waste precious time explaining "what it's for" when you could just cut to the chase of "why they need it."
faith/enthusiasm/frustration/excitement... no need for it. Sure, those things are great but they aren't making you money. What you really need to do is help people find what they are looking for. |
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mullman99 |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:00:02
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While it would be ideal to find a niche with little competition and lots of demand, those are very few and far between.
I'm reminded of something John Reese often said (badly paraphrased): sell the things people are buying. Want to know what niche to enter? See where the competition is. You know with certainty that people are buying.
Michael Ullman |
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Mark R Holland |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:05:17
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Szia Zsolt
The Hungarian market is *far* from saturated... there are gaps so wide you could fall into them and never hit the bottom. Most of my sites are English (based in BP but speak very few words of Hungarian), launched the first one in Hungarian a month ago and am already ranking for keywords that I would not dream of in English. Sure the market is smaller - but you can be a big fish in this smaller pond by taking some action!!
Find a great idea and do it in Magyar. Or maybe find something great about Hungary and tell the world in English. So many possibilities out there... whichever niche you choose.
Cheers, Mark |
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treysmith |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:10:02
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quote : Originally posted by williamstarrett
My advice? Learn how to fail faster.
Best advice I've seen on here in ages!
Had great luck with a couple of extremely saturated big niches.
There's a reason they're saturated, because the clients spend money.
Your job is to out market the competition.
Easier said than done for sure, but if you can hit it right, then
the money will come in like crazy.
The main way I have done this is through traffic.
A saturated market most likely has competitors that know how to convert
with sales copy. But if you can figure out how to drive traffic
a different way using PPC, then there is plenty of room to hit it big.
Also, in one niche I was extremely profitable by simply bringing in
an email autorepsonder into the series. 99% of the competitors were
just doing short sale fancy flash websites and did'nt have an AR going.
So make sure you step back, look at the niche, and see what it might
need. (Instead of just going with your usual route, or directly
copying the competition).
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ampersand |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:15:50
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It is not about being in a niche that no one else is in, it's about offering something no one else is giving. That unique benefit does not need to be rocket science. As Jessalynn said people are always looking for the next big thing, your feature could just be that you are the newest!
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Chris Smith |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:21:38
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Hey zsolt, I must admit, it is hard to find those niches where the main keyword has high searches and low competition. I think you have to have luck in finding these.
But a niche with lots of competition in your eyes actually is nowhere near its potential in being exploited. You can enter it and get people to your site with content generally, especially the long tail.
The other thing is if you have your own product, you just make an angle. And it is not difficult. I realised this because Top Secret Fat Loss Secret is one of the top selling and promoted items on Clickbank. If you actually buy it (I have access to a review copy), then it's a normal healthy eating and weight loss guide with nothing special. But the sales page copy sells it with its "parasite" angle. Even though the guide itself has only a few words on parasites!
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Domarkas |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:53:12
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Hey zsolt,
I personally think, that there is no thing like "over-saturated". Just lean into it! I think you should watch some videos by John Reese, they might help you and I bet that they will boost your motivation :)
http://www.income.com/blog/category/videos/
Have a look at all of them and DON'T STOP!
Robertas |
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zsolt |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 14:53:18
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| You guys really help me reframe my original problem. Big thanks for that . When you are frustrated your span of attention narrows down, and you don't even notice things, not even when they hit you in the face. In my case, it's simple. Instead of looking at a busy niche as an obstacle, it should be percieved as a great opportunity since a niche with many competitors indicates there is a demand, there are hungry people to serve. Finding your own voice, your own angle or should I say USP is then the job. In my negativity I completely ruled out busy niches, but now I see they can be friends. Then maybe I should not discard the idea conceived this afternoon just yet. :) |
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zsolt |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 15:07:03
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quote : Originally posted by Domarkas
Hey zsolt,
I think you should watch some videos by John Reese, they might help you and I bet that they will boost your motivation :)
Thanks a lot Robertas. These videos are surley motivation-boosters. Now I only wish Reese spoke a little bit slower. :) |
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zsolt |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 15:15:03
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quote : Originally posted by Mark R Holland
Szia Zsolt
Find a great idea and do it in Magyar. Or maybe find something great about Hungary and tell the world in English. So many possibilities out there... whichever niche you choose.
Cheers, Mark
You made a very interesting point here Mark. You are so right about the Hungarian market having huge gaps and loads of opportunity to jump at. However I do have one concern. It's the spending power of Hungarian people. Not only we are having serious economical problems right now (plus a government crisis), but most Hungarians are not in the habit of buying things from the internet. They have security concerns, they are not used to paying for stuff, they much prefer to download it for free. That's what I see, but I might be wrong. What is your take on this? |
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Rod Cortez |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 15:50:45
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Zsolt,
Don't fret. Your idea doesn't have to be unique. Here are my thoughts on your post. I've made 99% of my income by emulating what others do (marketing, stock market, real estate, etc.). Sure, I add my own twist, my own personality, unique graphics, etc. to it, but ultimately there's a system that I first learn how to do, then I adapt it to suit my own needs. Here's what I've learned from two different mentors who had been in business online for about the same time (both made money, but.....you'll see):
Mentor A: Who earns about 120k a year advised me to go after "Small niches that had very little competition" and to go after "unique" ideas because it would "separate you from the pack." (He was not talking about a USP either).
Mentor B: Who earned 8 million in net profit last year (and still mentors me) taught me to go after "niches with competition and proven buyers".
A few years ago I stopped listening to Mentor A and began following Mentor B's advice. For example, I was told by Mentor A, as well as some well-known marketers to stay away from the "Dating" niche. Some of them had very well-intentions but felt because they did not make it in that niche that I probably wouldn't succeed there as well. I found a way to succeed by following Mentor B's advice.
If you know how to market and have the fundamentals handled you can compete and profit from virtually any niche.
Sorry to hear you've got the "newbie blues". I've had them and know it's not a fun feeling. But at least you're willing to post about it and try to learn. The way to beat the "newbie blues" is to:
1. Learn, learn, and learn.
2. Take action (consistent action, none of this taking a week off stuff).
3. Find a mentor. Not just any mentor. Make sure they have references. Ask around. There are way too many posers who try to sell themselves as "mentors" and they're barely making 1,000 a month. You want to learn from someone who is getting the results you want.
4. If you're not self-motivated (like yours truly) then find a mastermind and/or support group. Back in the early days I teamed up with another Warrior and we talked on the phone and IMed nearly every day. We were both starting out (okay, he had a year on me so I learned from him) and we shared information with one another.
5. Create an outline. You don't have to create a full-fledged business plan. But you MUST write something down to give your subconscious mind something to aim for. This has been proven time and time again to work. Write down what you want to achieve, write down the time line you're going to do it, and then write down what steps you are going to take to get there.
6. Adjust when necessary. I wrote down that I wanted to earn 100k my first year way back in the late 90s. About 8-9 months into my business plan I knew that wasn't going to happen so I changed my goal to "earn more than 1,000 per month. It took me about 18 months to get there, mostly because I was stubborn, didn't seek a mentor, and let my education and biases get in the way.
7. Use The Simple Niche Test - While this is not applicable to everything, it does work. Use your favorite keyword tool (Word Tracker, Google Adwords Keyword Tool, whatever) and look for keywords that people will type into Search Engines to find whatever. So if you're interested in getting into selling products that cater to the metaphysical crowd then you'll be searching for words like:
psychic
crystals
past lives
angels
connecting with spirts
etc.
I made those up on the fly, obviously I'm not that familiar with that niche (but I have friends who are). Then you're going to look at the sponsored results and see who is there. Check out high volume keyords over 100k per month. Check mid-range keywords as well as long-tail keywords (lower search volumes). If you see the same advertisers on may of those keywords you might have a winner.
That's just a start, but this simple niche-finding test has worked and continues to work for me today. You can go to Clickbank and look at what sells there. You might think weight loss, dog training, psychic readings, dating, relationships, wedding dresses, etc. are all to crowded to go into. For an amateur, probably, but with enough intensive studying and taking action you can eliminate the newbie blues in a 45 to 90 day period.
The competition has done most of the research for you and all you have to do is do it a little better than ONE of them.
I think the hardest part for a lot of people is knowing what resources to invest in and then where to start (please correct me if I'm wrong).
So your idea does NOT have to be unique to make money. On the contrary, according to my Mentor "B", it's probably better that it's not.
Now, get to it!
Rod "Too-much-coffee-makes-me-type-too-fast!" Cortez
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Valdor Kiebach |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 16:04:56
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| you could always produce content in the hungarian language as well as other languages and market to your fellow countrymen in your own language. |
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Rod Cortez |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 17:16:10
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quote : Originally posted by Valdor Kiebach
you could always produce content in the hungarian language as well as other languages and market to your fellow countrymen in your own language.
That is an excellent idea; one worth testing. I've taken a couple of niches where I've had ebooks translated into another language. Find out what the top 2 or 3 search engines are in that particular country (or how they obtain their information) and start there. If you can't check their sponsored results find out where others are advertising. In many cases, you'll find websites where NO ONE is advertising. There are some really sharp Warriors that have been doing this for years (but they're NOT talking).
Rod
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Slngz |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 17:58:55
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| I disagree. I make money in a very saturated niche. Just give the visitors what they want. They will not be viewing EVERY site related to you. |
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LordKaT |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 18:13:13
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I think the idea isn't to find an "empty" niche - that's downright impossible; but, what you should be doing is looking for keywords in that niche you can compete with.
once you're able to compete for smaller keywords, you'll eventually be able to build up to larger, more profitable ones. |
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tw |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 18:49:06
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quote : Originally posted by Slngz
I disagree. I make money in a very saturated niche. Just give the visitors what they want. They will not be viewing EVERY site related to you.
Exactly, I have picked up a niche that is very popular at clickbank. Whipped up a webpage, msn adcenter and a few articles and I had picked up sales right away. Don't be scared of the popular niches. |
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Neil Morgan |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 19:18:06
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There's nothing new under the sun, as they say.
If you wait until you have a Eureka moment, you'll wait a long time.
Meanwhile, others make money.
Study the best "widget" that's available in your chosen niche and make your "widget" better and/or cheaper.
Cheers,
Neil |
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Virtualhelp4u |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 20:47:25
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| Excellent post and as usual great advice. I learn something everyday here. You guys are the best. I have been to a lot of forums but none as helpful and giving as this one. Thank you from another Newbie. |
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Thomas Wilkinson |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 22:30:57
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1. Most Americans and Canadians have never been to
Europe let alone eastern Europe. Seems like a
travel info site built by somebody with "homegrown"
knowledge is a natural. Not only about Hungary but
surrounding countries as well. Lots of room for videos
and pictures. 2. Family history research is big here
now. Each country must have its own unique methods and
procedures. A hugh number of Americans can trace roots
to Hungary. Become the "resident expert" on how to find
records, churches, cemetaries, etc. 3. Find out who
makes what in the whole country and become an exporter or
set up a site for those who want to export to advertize on.
(see Alibaba.com) You are in a unique position. You're
there, we're here. Hope this helps.
T.W.
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Thomas Wilkinson |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 22:52:12
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As I was hitting the button on the first post
it occured to me that you are ALREADY IN A
UNIQUE NICHE that most of the rest of us wish
would come so easily. Your Niche is called HUNGARY!
Look around, open your eyes, take a breath and
brainstorm things to monetize. Ask your friends,
look at whats being advertized there. Find out
where the most visitors are coming from and why
they're coming. Where do they go, stay and eat
when they're there. Build a homepage with pictures,
maybe a video. Become the Hungarian expert in this
forum and a dozen others. Check into Adsense, affiliate
travel products and , the way you write, be framing out
a unique product of your own. Make the name Zsolt
synonymous with Hungary on the net.
T.W. |
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angela99 |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 22:59:37
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Everyone's an expert on something - what are you can expert on?
It could be anything - maybe you're a great cook, a great parent or an expert on ________?
Go to the bookstore, and browse through the magazines, or better yet, look at the magazines you buy. You'll find more niches than you could possibly enter.
And as far as COMPETITION is concerned; that's great!
A niche with lots of competition is just what you want; your competitors are there because it's profitable.
Just get started: you can't fail. Failure is when you give up. Everything else is just feedback.
Cheers
Angela
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inspired1 |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 00:07:46
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Thanks for the great advice... as a "newbie" with plenty of ideas who has found myself overwhelmed and hesitant to tackle niche's that seem over-run with "guru's" and big players, I realised reading this that not everyone wants to buy products from the biggest players, and there's definately room for everyone if you know how to market your product effectively...
Now to stop procrastinating and take some action :) |
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Christian Amador |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 00:23:34
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| Do you think that the world needs another lost weight book or another exercise machine? It looks like the people who comes with a new machine or new diet don't know that the lost weight market is "saturated". |
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jasongreen |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 02:48:19
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Action will bring much better results rather than moaning about it.
almost every single niche will have competition - but that does not mean it is saturated.
Simply compare metrics for demand with metrics for competition accross a variety of niche and you will see some that stand out as having more demand and less competition - but you'll never find a golden niche.
Just pick one and get on with it :) |
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VegasVince |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 03:35:29
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quote : Originally posted by zsolt
Of course, not every niche is occupied, but it sure seems like to me more often than not. I am newbie who just started to give some serious thoughts to IM. I don't have any experience or background in any kind of business or marketing. I have read many ebook lately, and 99% of them said you gotta find a niche where is a demand, but the competition is not too fierce. OK, sounds simple. But it not. In fact I find this task downright hard. One can only be good at so many thing. So you start searching among those topics and niches. You think you have some idea that might just work. There is a demand, you're good at it, have the needed skills. But then comes the part of "what about competition". And this is where I lose all my faith and enthusiasm. No matter what niche I have researched recently, I find that there are already at least a few well established names, companies, websites. There are alreaedy people who made themselves home in the niche, have good reputation, tons of traffic, excelent search engine rankings, etc.
I feel stuck at the very first step every ebook begins with: "find a niche". I feel like I am not making progress. I have doubts, fears. Shall I just jump into a niche where there are already some big dogs? Or keep on looking and find some very exotic niche there's probably not much demand for, and I don't know a lot about?
I got the newbies' blues, and don't yet know how to overcome it.
This afternoon I thought I had an excellent idea. My excitment only lasted a few minutes when I found out that my "this gotta be a winner" idea is not unique at all.
Gurus, newbies...how do/did you cope with frustration of not finding that money making niche.
I realize that it's sexy on this forum to come up with complicated answers that impress chicks at cocktail parties....but here's a real answer for you bro.
A TRUE NICHE IS NOTHING MORE THEN A WELL DEFINED, TARGETED MARKET...SO FRIGGIN PASSIONATE ABOUT THEIR HOBBY THAT THEY'LL SPEND JUST ABOUT ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY AND NOT EVEN BLINK....FOR ANY PRODUCT OR SERVICE THAT KEEPS THEM IN THEIR NICHE....aka... COMFORT ZONE!!!! GET IT????
A niche is bunch of poor thirsty bastards in the desert waiting for you to come along and sell them water...and they will give up the keys to the castle for one sip.
That's a NICHE.
A niche isn't your Grandma's sewing club...cuz no offense...they don't buy shit...or if they do...it's not enough to buy a cheap Las Vegas Steak. And twice as tough to get out of them. So go where the money is.
And you don't need to be a rocket scientist to sell them....or find them. Niches are every where.
It's your sister wanting to get thin. Your brother wanting to date that PlayBoy centerfold. Your mom...wanting to take the wrinkles out of her eyes. Your dad...who want's to dive off that cliff once before he dies....
And it's that simple..and I don't give a shit if you're doing IM sales or door to door!
Sell shit people want...or better yet...sell shit people CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT.
That's it! Keep it simple.
SELL SHIT PEOPLE WANT!!!!!
And I promise you if you do.....the marketing takes care of itself!
SELL SHIT PEOPLE WANT!
Sell something that mothers will line up at Walmart for--- at 4 am and kick the shit out of the lady in front of her...FOR!
The seven deadly sins....make 'em richer, thinner, and richer.....and if you don't know what product to sell or service...?
The the products to sell are everywhere...just look around!
NICHES....ARE EVERYWHERE. And they desperately want to give you the money.
And I continue to be amazed over people on this board who do it all right....and wonder why they don't sell shit?
It's simple.
No one cares....about your offer. And that's old school marketing that I don't see taught on this great Warrior forum.
Cuz they'd rather teach autoresponder 101. True. Sad.
SELL SHIT PEOPLE WANT...CUZ IT'S AN EASY SALE. From the heart..from the "bad guy" here......no rss feed needed or bullshit autoresponder. And much better conversions.
xxxVegas Vince
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Jamesh |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 03:35:54
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| My top money making site is in an extremely saturated niche. |
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Slngz |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 03:55:46
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| Just pick longer tailed keyword phrases. Gte your site noticed and ranked well for those terms then stry and compete for slightly tougher ones and so on... :) |
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Daniel_t |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 05:13:21
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Do u use niche tools"
Thanks |
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ghoti |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 06:24:02
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Think of the biggest companies you know.
McDonald's. There were hamburger stands on every corner in America before they came by.
Starbuck's. What an idea. Cafes were a dime a dozen when they launched.
Those were two of the most "saturated" markets in existence, and those two companies swallowed them whole. Meanwhile, companies with in great new niches die everyday.
It's not the niche. It's the system.
It tool me a while, but when people in IM talk about niches, they are really talking about a target market - usually a section of a large market whose needs are not quite being met.
Look at large markets and small markets. Study them. They change all the time. And because they, change, their needs change.
So, there are always new "niches" opening up. Every single day. There is always a window of opportunity when a large customer base develops needs that aren't answered by the market anymore. I don't remember her name, but some woman made millions by creating and selling those little decorations that people stick on their Crocs. The Croc company bought her out in the end. And Crocs themselves started off as a shoe for people who had boats and wouldn't have to worry about getting their shoes wet.
The markets are being born all the time. Follow the advice you got here. Fail quickly and frequently until you find a winner. |
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zsolt |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:11:04
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Wow. It's kind of hard to keep up with all the replies. You guys gave me some really great advise. I learn from every post. And I feel much better than I felt yesterday. I no longer see niches with competition in such a negative way. I already have some ideas in mind. They might work or might not. I should put them into practice to find out.
By the way, is it common practice on this forum to share business plans and marketing ideas, or these things should not be revealed? What I mean is that one should execise caution when talking about plans and ideas? You never know who might be lurking here waiting to jump on an opportunity? But I could be wrong? How specific are you when discussing marketing ideas and plans? Sorry if this is a silly question. I am not yet familiar with the traditions of this forum. |
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zsolt |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:26:21
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quote : Originally posted by Rod Cortez
Zsolt,
3. Find a mentor. Not just any mentor. Make sure they have references. Ask around. There are way too many posers who try to sell themselves as "mentors" and they're barely making 1,000 a month. You want to learn from someone who is getting the results you want.
Rod "Too-much-coffee-makes-me-type-too-fast!" Cortez
Rod,
Your post made me think about if a mentor would really be useful for me. I think you are right. At this initial stage a mentor could be a tremendous help. Only problem: I seriously doubt I could afford a personal mentor. My $400 salary would not permit that. I guess a good mentor is not cheap. He shouldn't be. Good advise is priceless.
There are mentorship programs on the net for as little as about $15 a month. But I am not sure if they're any good.
Any suggestion? |
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eugenelam |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:31:27
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What I would advise is browsing through magazines.
Go to a bookstore and see what people are browsing. Keep up with industry trends and get inspiration from advertisements in popular magazines.
There are tons of hungry niches out there waiting for you. You just have to know where to find them |
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so102778 |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:34:47
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Even in a saturated market you can
make money if you find a way to make
yourself stand out among the competition.
Just be different and bold. |
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DanFlo |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:47:48
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| You need to go with markets that have already a number of competitors since the money it's there you know its profitable. I go for saturated markets actually. If you provide more value then the other seller you will always sell more then him. |
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Nabeel Chughtai |
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Andrew Dillon |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 18:56:16
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I always teach those on my list to not be afraid of tackling any niche. Where there is a market there is always room for one more new product. Success isn't about the niche for me, it is how you market your product and how good that product actually is. If your product is a quality product and you market it correctly then there is no reason why you shouldn't succeed in any niche.
Dipping your toe into the water to see how cold it is is not going to get you anywhere, just jump in and go for it. You will soon warm up and get the hang of things. |
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zsolt |
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zsolt |
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Every niche is occupied
