| Author |
Topic |
Vijay M |
 Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:04:06
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Warriors,
Have you noticed more & more wso sellers forcing wso buyers to optin to their list before sending them the product they had purchased? This technique is being enforced by even advanced (red star) warriors.
My question is, Why do I have to opt-in to the wso sellers list after paying for the product?
I personally do not like this tactic and feel its in poor taste and maybe even unlawful.
What do the other warriors think? |
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Rob D |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:14:24
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| For me it depends a lot what happens after I opt in. If I then get the product offering to show me how to make $200/day by sitting on my hands whistling, and the product actually teaches me that, I can live with having to hit unsubscribe... |
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adeel-chowdhry |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:14:59
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> maybe even be unlawful.
LOL Vijay! Now that was funny :D
Offline companies save your data all the time, and it's much MORE then just an email address! They also pass it around, sell it and then send you stuff in the mail :-S
Best Regards,
Adeel
P.S. In regards to trying to get the opt-in.. I would do it(and currently do). As an internet marketer (which we all are I presume, being in an internet marketing focused forum), is to grab that lead...which equals money!
P.P.S. I would say that your list isn't that big?
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laynee |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:33:05
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Here's a customer's perspective - I've noticed that the last few WSOs I bought forced an opt-in and it irritated me quite a bit. On the other hand - I don't think I ever got around to unsubscribing from the lists, and I'm not sure I can even remember now which ones they were, so maybe a bit of irritation is something the sellers are prepared to put up with to get my e-mail.
Cheers,
Laynee |
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Richard HAN |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:34:29
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Personally, I don't have a problem with having to optin to a list provided that list only caters to product updates.
What I can't stand is receiving spams from lists that is meant for products updates. Worst thing is you can't unsubscribe since once you do that, you don't get notified of new updates to products that you pay for.  Can't do anything about it except not to buy anything from the vendor in future...
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MikeLantz |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:40:58
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quote : What I can't stand is receiving spams from lists that is meant for products updates. Worst thing is you can't unsubscribe since once you do that, you don't get notified of new updates to products that you pay for.
This is a great point that needs to be seen. I think this is a huge issue and many of the "big names" do it and it truly bugs me.
Of course, I also hate being on multiple lists of the same marketing and getting 2 or more duplicate emails when they promote. That is a good way to get me to unsubscribe!
Mike |
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Vijay M |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:47:04
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Ok, just because offline companies do it all the time is no reason at all :-)
Adeel, you are right, I don't have a huge list. Now I wonder, how you came to that conclusion!! |
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Bev Clement |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:52:48
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There are ways of doing this without annoying your buyers.
Let them choose to opt in saying they will get updates etc, and keep to your word. Works really well.
Force them to sign up with no comments on the thank you page, works OK but not so good.
Put the most obnoxious comments on your thank you page like, you will only get this product if you sign up for my list. What? You have my money, but I am being blackmailed now to sign up for your crappy list otherwise it is money down the drain. Sign up get product, unsubscribe immediately.
If you are going to force me to sign up then let me know what you are offering.
Don't tell me I can't have what I paid for unless I sign up.
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Thomas Wilkinson |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:53:25
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If its through Paypal it violates their TOS to
force an opt-in after a purchase. No wonder some
of these so called "gurus" get their accounts
locked. Maybe if they ever gave the TOS a quick
read they could avoid some of the problems.
T.W.
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Rob Whisonant |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 23:14:43
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When I run a WSO I always deliver the product purchased without requiring an opt-in. I then usually offer a FREE unadvertised bonus if they opt-in voluntarily. Works well and does not piss anyone off.
Re's
Rob Whisonant |
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mullman99 |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 23:20:38
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Rob,
Thats the best answer - you paid, you get what you paid for. Period. A follow-up 'thank you' email offering a little something extra thats relevant to the purchase for the opt-in gives the buyer the option, doesn't tick anyone off, and lets them get some additional added value. It works, and is a great early relationship-builder.
Melanie Ullman |
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Jay Jennings |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 23:27:06
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I just paid for a WSO via Clickbank and instead of being taken to a download page I was *required* to join a list.
At that point the money has been exchanged and the product is MINE. So freaking give it to me.
Jay Jennings
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Bruce Wedding |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 23:31:33
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Just an FYI for those doing this. If you say that an opt-in is for product updates, you can never send a solicitation email without violating CANSPAM.
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leodimilo |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 23:48:36
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| Well, instead of looking at "opt-ins" as something of a nuisance, I use it to keep tabs on what is happening in the affiliate world and the 'spin' that these guys use in trying to sell you something. There are a couple warriors who live in my swipe file. |
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Nathan J. Hockley |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 00:00:20
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The quick and easy solution:
If you are unhappy being on a
certain list... move the cursor
onto the unsubscribe link lift
your finger a measly 1mm from
the mouse and then push in a
downward motion.
I don't see it as a real problem...
Even if it isn't double opt-in, is
it really that hard to unsubscribe?
I myself do this (but of course I
use the double opt-in confirmation
feature). For me it is an
opportunity to grow a WSO list...
which I can then promote my future
WSOs to.
I can understand that some warriors
will take advantage of WSO opt-ins,
and that people are unhappy about
this. But it really isn't that hard
to unsubscribe.
Nathan J. Hockley
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GarrieWilson |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 00:03:35
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Thanks to Paul, AGAIN, I changed my mind about this.
Now, I use a check box so they can bypass it if they want. Most don't though.
quote : Offline companies save your data all the time, and it's much MORE then just an email address! They also pass it around, sell it and then send you stuff in the mail :-S They ask BEFORE you pay.
I had a checker ask me my number and my reply was "you cant have it" He stood there and didnt know what the hell to do. After a minute he goes, I need it to complete the sale. I said, "OK, then I wont buy" Then after more silence, because I was in a rush and needed it, I gave him the number to his store. ;)
quote : Just an FYI for those doing this. If you say that an opt-in is for product updates, you can never send a solicitation email without violating CANSPAM. Thats why in the verbage below the opt-in form, I say for updates AND special announcements. Thanks, yet again, to Paul.
People really should listen to Paul.
Garrie |
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blackhatcat |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 00:18:47
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quote : Originally posted by Vijay M
Warriors,
Have you noticed more & more wso sellers forcing wso buyers to optin to their list before sending them the product they had purchased? This technique is being enforced by even advanced (red star) warriors.
 Oh, the horror. Say it ain't so. |
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Mike McBride |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 04:53:38
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quote : The quick and easy solution:
If you are unhappy being on a
certain list... move the cursor
onto the unsubscribe link lift
your finger a measly 1mm from
the mouse and then push in a
downward motion.
I don't see it as a real problem...
You don't see it as a real problem because you either didn't read the thread or missed the point of the OP. The problem is NOT subscribing/unsubscribing from a list; the problem is being FORCED to sign-up for a list before receiving a product that you've ALREADY paid for!
Don't hold MY purchase hostage because YOU want to pad your list.
If I want to buy a product and I've paid for it, I want it now - no strings attached.
If I want to join your list, I'll do it because I want to, not because it's the only freakin' way you'll give me what I've already paid for. |
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Steven Fullman |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 05:21:32
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Hi,
What about a free (as in it doesn't cost
money) WSO?
How do you feel about opting in to get
a free report, or piece of software?
What if the terms are stated explicitely,
for instance, "I will, occasionally, send
you an offer for a product that might
interest you"?
Would that stop you from taking up the
WSO?
Curious to gauge the response...
Steve |
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Nathan J. Hockley |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 05:33:36
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quote : Originally posted by Mike McBridequote : The quick and easy solution:
If you are unhappy being on a
certain list... move the cursor
onto the unsubscribe link lift
your finger a measly 1mm from
the mouse and then push in a
downward motion.
I don't see it as a real problem... You don't see it as a real problem because you either didn't read the thread or missed the point of the OP. The problem is NOT subscribing/unsubscribing from a list; the problem is being FORCED to sign-up for a list before receiving a product that you've ALREADY paid for!Don't hold MY purchase hostage because YOU want to pad your list. If I want to buy a product and I've paid for it, I want it now - no strings attached. If I want to join your list, I'll do it because I want to, not because it's the only freakin' way you'll give me what I've already paid for.
I went thru the question again and thanks for the tip off
My eager brain gets the better of me again!
Cheers Mike |
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Ross Kenny |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 05:44:14
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quote : Originally posted by Thomas Wilkinson
If its through Paypal it violates their TOS to
force an opt-in after a purchase. No wonder some
of these so called "gurus" get their accounts
locked. Maybe if they ever gave the TOS a quick
read they could avoid some of the problems.
T.W.
If this is true then surely the 7 dollar script
could be wiped out if Paypal put their feet down!!
I don't like having to opt in to recieve a WSO but
like the fact I can choose whether or not I want to.
Warriors should give us the option to or not to..!!
A WSO update and future release list and making it
optional is the way to go.
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Tim_Carter |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 05:46:18
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If your doing this with Paypal and someone complains - bye bye account. It is against TOS.
You must give a bypass option. |
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Anna Johnson |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 06:51:01
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quote : Have you noticed more & more wso sellers forcing wso buyers to optin to their list before sending them the product they had purchased? This technique is being enforced by even advanced (red star) warriors.
Is this really such an issue? Why not just unsubscribe? Or choose not to buy the product? |
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 07:58:19
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quote : Is this really such an issue? Why not just unsubscribe? Or choose not to buy the product?
Anna, did you actually read this thread? The problem is that they don't tell you before you buy that they're going to force you to sign up to their list before they'll actually deliver the product you've paid for.
If they're so hell-bent on getting you to subscribe to their damn list, they should at least have the courtesy to tell you before you make payment that you'll have to join their list to get the product.
I don't see why this is such a difficult topic to understand. It's just dishonest if they say on the sales page, as many do, that you'll get "instant download" after paying, if before you can actually download there is really another hoop you have to jump through.
If I keep my end of the bargain by paying for an instant download, keep your end of the bargain by giving me that instant download, without holding my purchase hostage until I meet your unadvertised condition first.
It seems simple, really. |
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Kate Anderson |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:06:00
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I don't think requiring an opt-in before you have access to a product you have purchased is a great way to do business, and if I was a first time buyer it would really turn me off. I always offer it as an optional subscription, not a forced requirement.
However, for free WSO's, or offers outside of this forum, that's an entirely different story. You are exchanging a name and email address for a product, with full knowledge prior to entering in your information that it's required in order to get to the download page.
Although, there is an annoying twist taking place lately. I downloaded a blog plugin, it was free as most of them are. I uploaded it, clicked the "Activate" button in my wp-admin, but when I went into the settings to customize it, the page wasn't available to me until I subscribed to their autoresponder and confirmed it. Slightly annoying based on the fact I wasn't aware this was expected when I spent the time uploading/activating the plugin. If it was upfront, it would be a completely different story. |
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:08:47
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quote : If it was upfront, it would be a completely different story.
That's it in a nutshell, Kate. If you know going in that you have to subscribe to something, then you have a choice. If not, the practice sucks. |
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Joshua N. Rabon |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:24:57
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quote : Originally posted by Bruce Wedding
Just an FYI for those doing this. If you say that an opt-in is for product updates, you can never send a solicitation email without violating CANSPAM.
I did not know that, I'm sure you just helped a lot of people out with bit of info. |
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Michael Oksa |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:48:33
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Yeah, in a perfect world all emails would have an unsubscribe link.
AND when it was clicked it would actually subscribe you from the list.
Now, the key in the OP is the mentioning of PAYING for a product.
I paid. Period. If you force me to sign up to get the product AFTER
I sent you my money - then I have a major problem with it.
If it is a free WSO, then I think it is ok. In effect, your info is
what you are exchanging for the product. That being said, the free
WSOs that make opting in optional are even better.
Yes, I know it's all about building a list. But, in reality, it is
really about building a RESPONSIVE list - and if you force people to
sign up, they won't be responsive. It's a lousy way to do business.
Get people to opt in to your list based on its merits, not by force.
Wishing you every success,
Michael Oksa |
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Steven Fullman |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:08:41
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Great points well made, Michael.
Better to have a list of 100 buyers
than a list of 100,000 non-buyers.
Cheers,
Steve
quote : Originally posted by Michael Oksa
Yeah, in a perfect world all emails would have an unsubscribe link.
AND when it was clicked it would actually subscribe you from the list.
Now, the key in the OP is the mentioning of PAYING for a product.
I paid. Period. If you force me to sign up to get the product AFTER
I sent you my money - then I have a major problem with it.
If it is a free WSO, then I think it is ok. In effect, your info is
what you are exchanging for the product. That being said, the free
WSOs that make opting in optional are even better.
Yes, I know it's all about building a list. But, in reality, it is
really about building a RESPONSIVE list - and if you force people to
sign up, they won't be responsive. It's a lousy way to do business.
Get people to opt in to your list based on its merits, not by force.
Wishing you every success,
Michael Oksa
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BuddyT |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:25:42
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| I just run it all through hotmail anyway so it stays in the bin if I'm not interested. |
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Mike Patrick |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:37:06
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quote : Originally posted by BuddyT
I just run it all through hotmail anyway so it stays in the bin if I'm not interested.
Stop the presses - we have a winner! 
Why didn't WE think of that?
Dude, again, it would be good form to actually read the thread and understand the situation being discussed before replying.
A little thought is NOT a dangerous thing. |
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thebestguru |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:37:23
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quote : Originally posted by Nathan J. Hockley
The quick and easy solution:
If you are unhappy being on a
certain list... move the cursor
onto the unsubscribe link lift
your finger a measly 1mm from
the mouse and then push in a
downward motion.
LOL. This is one solution that floored me, alright :)
I guess there are pros and contras about this.
Perhaps the best solution is to give your customers two options:
To opt-in or not to opt-in.
You don't want angry people in your list. |
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Thomas Wilkinson |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:13:48
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Rob Whisonant's answer is still the most professional
from a business standpoint and that IS one of the
reasons Paypal is begining to come down on the $7
script. (not the only one)
T.W.
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upanatum |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:47:14
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| I think if it is a free WSO then it is OK- but I agree that I don't appreciate being forced if I paid for something. |
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John Hillage |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:51:45
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| Opt-in should be choice I believe for WSO. I offer an opt-in for more bonus information but if the purchaser just wants the product they should just have it. Particularly as most warriors will be on a bunch of lists anyway, is it really in the spirit of WSO's to force opt-in? |
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JohnMcCabe |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:43:20
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There is another possibility here, beyond a marketer wanting to pad their list...
There are a lot of products on the market where the downloads are delivered inside a membership site. Even with a "free" membership, you have to take out a user name and password.
My beef comes with not explaining the process to me before I hit the buy button, whether it's a WSO or a product out in the wild.
And if you really want to lose credibility with me, use your "update" list to spray me with every new launch and Clickbank product you can find. Your spaghetti just ain't sticking to this wall... |
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Angela V. Edwards |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:50:11
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quote : Originally posted by Thomas Wilkinson
If its through Paypal it violates their TOS to
force an opt-in after a purchase. No wonder some
of these so called "gurus" get their accounts
locked. Maybe if they ever gave the TOS a quick
read they could avoid some of the problems.
T.W.
I HAVE seen quite a bit of this through Paypal and I wondered just how long they were going to be allowed to do this. I certainly don't mind signing up for someone's list; if I want to unsubscribe later, I will. But every time I see this after purchasing something through Paypal, it makes me wonder why the person is risking having their account frozen. |
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zerofill |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:51:58
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Forcing someone to opt-in after paying for a product...just isn't what you would call opt-in...Where is the option?
If someone forced me to opt-in after I paid for something. It would definately be the last product I bought from them.
And if it was paid for using an online service like paypal I would report them. |
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Kevin_Moriarty |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:54:38
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optin to read my reply
Name:
Email: |
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zerofill |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:55:58
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quote : Originally posted by Kevin_Moriarty
optin to read my reply
Name:
Email:
haha... |
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| Topic |
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Wso Sellers: Stop forcing buyers to opt-in