Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts?

Carlton Johnson · 07-18-2009, 07:53 AM

Hi all,

Just looking for some feeback on profit loophole by Chris Rempel and Dave Kelly.

I have done a search on the forum and nobody seems to have given any feedback about this particular product yet.

Now I have read posts about authority loophole and I have read plenty of opinions about Chris and Dave's MSN stuff which didn't go down very well here.

However, I am interested to actually hear what someone who has actually bought it things of profit loophole. The logic doesn't seem sound in being able to sell a site for good money that is not very old and that isn't making much money, just because it fits the buyers criteria. Surely it would be much cheaper for the buyer to just outsource the creation of these sites himself so that they fit the criteria.

However, I am open minded since I like Chris's blog and I like all of the reports he does. I also like Dave's linkvana.

Hence, why I was wondered if anyone who actually has bought the product is willing to just give a brief review. What is it really all about and is it worth the money, or did you get a refund?

Cheers

Carlton

Akogo · 07-18-2009, 10:12 AM

Basically the plan is to create five sites every month and let them develop traffic and revenue over four or five months. You sell the first set of five sites (preferably in bulk) to the well known sites for auctioning them off. Then when the next set of five mature, you sell those also. Rinse and repeat. Dave goes into a few selling tips and goes into how he prices his sites. You can sell sites individually, but he believes you get a better price if you sell in bulk. Why wait four or five months? He wants to provide buyers 60 to 90 days of traffic and revenue results and he doesn't monetize his sites until after a few weeks of being indexed.

Quote:

The logic doesn't seem sound in being able to sell a site for good money that is not very old and that isn't making much money, just because it fits the buyers criteria.

According to Dave, especially for people who crank out sites like in the hundreds or thousands, keeping up with them becomes difficult and consequently traffic and revenue diminish. So selling them while they are hot is the best time to get the most in a sale.

Quote:

Surely it would be much cheaper for the buyer to just outsource the creation of these sites himself so that they fit the criteria.

If they buy your site, you are the one they outsourced to. Maybe these customer never thought of outsourcing. Or perhaps they plan to further develop the site and sell for a higher price. Whatever, you did the dirty work for them... they didn't risk on a niche idea that didn't work out.

Here's what's left out... On the surface, the sites he build are simple plain static html sites but with good content. I wish he had some WordPress examples. Then it would be helpful if he went into a little more detail in the transfer process after the sale, like how we move everything over to the buyer's hosting account. Although his ideas about outsourcing work to retired and the disabled Americans are honorable, I was disappointed he didn't go further which means don't expect to find a secret source of dirt cheap workers.

This course is best for those who already know how to build a website. He makes it clear there are no short cuts and its going to be a lot of work if you do it all yourself. There's nothing BlueFart about it.

I'm not going to ask for a refund because overall I think it's a good course, but I can't figure out why they always have to use "loophole" whenever they name their new products.

When I have more time, I plan on writing a more complete review and post it on my site.

RoyChan · 07-18-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akogo

"loophole"

Implies some sort of "secrets" - when you now think of loophole, you would think of Dave and Chris.

That's called branding.

Carlton Johnson · 07-18-2009, 05:22 PM

Akogo, Thanks, that's the sort of info I was looking for.

I still feel as though it doesn't make logical sense though. Even though you tried to answer my questions with the way that Dave thinks and puts things, it still doesn't quite ring true.

As I mentioned, I still don't understand why these buyers don't just outsource things themselves. Dave makes it sound like he has sold several sites that only have a few pages of content and some back links, for several hundred or even thousand dollars.

Now, from where I am sitting if these buyers are savvy, then they would have realized a long time ago that they could outsource this website creation for maybe a couple of hundred dollars all in rather than paying one thousand dollars plus on a consistent basis. But maybe I am looking at things from my perspective, who knows, but I need to see more proof before I believe these sorts of claims.

So as regards to me being the one that they have outsourced the work to, it just doesn't fit. Now, if the truth is that in reality on average you were going to only be able to sell these sites for say $100 -$400 dollars, especially if they are hardly making any money, then I might think - Hmm, that might make sense.

But as it is, this still doesn't ring true to me. I want it to be true, but I have my doubts.

I know of several people that make thousands a month from adsense and selling sites, but there’s is a traditional model and the site is only worth the standard multiples of how much you earn per month X whatever the standard multiple is (I don’t know what the multiple is because I don’t currently sell sites I hold on to them).

Dave makes it sound like he has a secret way of doing things. But nothing I have read so far has convinced me. I think I will keep my money in my pocket with this one.

Thanks again for the review Akogo, it has helped.

Jeremy Kelsall · 07-18-2009, 05:25 PM

Carlton,

There are tons of people that would prefer to just buy something than to do it themselves.

Also, I understand that people are looking for feedback, but laying all the details out here isn't exactly fair to Chris and Dave.

Carlton Johnson · 07-18-2009, 05:33 PM

Hi Jeremy,

Your right in that laying out the details here isn't fair, although I don't actually think to much has been given away. And I actually outsource lots of work myself. But I find the cheapest way to outsource for quality results.

It just doesn't make sense to pay many times over the odds for something you could get done just as well for cheaper. But I am very open to being convinced, it’s just that nobody has convinced me yet. It could be that they are selling to people that aren't Internet savvy and don't want to be they would rather just pay for someone else to do it and remain ignorant in this area otherwise they would have to start managing outsourcers etc. if this is the case it makes more sense.

But, I will leave it at that. I do love Chris's reports and some of Dave's other stuff. It's always difficult because obviously they don't want to tell you the exact steps to take in the sales letter because then you wouldn't need to buy the product, but sometimes I think a little more info is needed to make an informed decision.

Anyway, I will leave it at that. This may be a fantastic product. I was hoping it was, and I don't want to stop anyone else taking a punt on it, because it might just work for them.

homebse · 07-18-2009, 05:56 PM

Carlton,

I think that a lot of people would rather purchase a site that is a proven money maker than to spend time and money building a site themselves or, outsourcing the development of a site, just to find out if that niche is going to be profitable. In addition, if you develop a site (or outsource) you have to build traffic to that site or outsource the expense of that also.

A lot of people would prefer to manage a business than get very involved with the nitty gritty of that business.

Hope this gives you a little different perspective.

I found Profit Loophole to be very well documented. However, I too would like to have seen a little bit more detail on the steps required to turn over a site and its traffic to the new owner.

Liz Morgan · 07-18-2009, 06:40 PM

I too have been looking at PL, but am similarly doubting the sales price claims made. There has to be more evidence that they can actually be sold for $1K+ despite making minimal or no revenue as indicated in the sales letter. And I'd expect at least a $1K price tag per site considering that's the entire revenue generated by the site, as well as, the time commitment involved.

The prospect of spending 20+ hours a week for 4 - 6 months without any solid evidence that the time investment will yield the desired return (if any at all) is a significant drawback. Dave's screenshots were from 2007 as well, which is light years in the IM arena.

By no means am I saying it can't or won't work, I'm just saying prospective buyers need more evidence of the sales price claims in advance of committing that kind of $$ investment, but much more importantly, time investment. Yes, even this is less time commitment than most other business models, but there are a lot of other opportunities where cash in hand comes much quicker.

Liz Morgan · 07-18-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebse

Carlton,

I think that a lot of people would rather purchase a site that is a proven money maker than to spend time and money building a site themselves

That's great, but the whole premise of the product is that it doesn't need to be a proven money maker. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't make sense to sell them off in the long run.

Jason Dolman · 07-18-2009, 06:54 PM

Carlton,

The value is the 5-6 months of time the site has been active, getting traffic, and earning money.

Yes... they could hire someone to write the content, build the site, promote it, etc... but they can't get the 5-6 months of earning and traffic power the sites have already generated.

That's the value (and premium) buyers are willing to pay for.

Jason

Jason Dolman · 07-18-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

I'd expect at least a $1K price tag per site considering that's the entire revenue generated by the site, as well as, the time commitment involved.

Liz... it's very common for a site to sell for 5-10 times it's monthly income, so a selling price of $1,000 would be possible from a site that earns $100-$200 per month.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

The prospect of spending 20+ hours a week for 4 - 6 months without any solid evidence that the time investment will yield the desired return (if any at all) is a significant drawback. Dave's screenshots were from 2007 as well, which is light years in the IM arena.

Dave provides an explanation for the date of the screenshots in the sales letter.

Jason

Jeremy Kelsall · 07-18-2009, 07:47 PM

I didn't pick this one up, but I would hate to see the whole report discussed in detail in a thread here on the forum similar to what happened with their last product.

Akogo · 07-18-2009, 10:10 PM

You might have to take it on faith that it will work. Of course there's no guarantee any plan will work for everyone. However, from the way Dave speaks I'm convince he himself is an authority on the selling of sites and is successful at it. If nothing else, he'll teach you how to build traffic and revenue generating websites. I hope the mods don't delete this thread and no ex-customers start something negative. I hope only people who bought post their honest opinion and suggestions.

Liz Morgan · 07-19-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

Liz... it's very common for a site to sell for 5-10 times it's monthly income, so a selling price of $1,000 would be possible from a site that earns $100-$200 per month.

Jason

I'm aware of that, but I'll say it again - the whole premise or value of the product is that it doesn't need to be a revenue generating site. Secondly, the target audience for the product is not people who have the ability to generate revenue through a site - it's newbies who haven't be able to do that. Lastly, another strong point the sales letter makes is that managing volumes of revenue generating sites is not as lucrative as selling them off since the revenue inevitably fades away the more sites you have. You seem to be familiar with the sales page, so you should have seen the rather heavy emphasis on those points.

Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying there needs to be more evidence it actually can considering the bold sales price claims of non revenue generating sites. And most importantly the significant time investment involved before seeing any hint of success or a return on efforts.

Maybe the pending FAQ page on the site will clear some of this up, who knows...

Alexa Smith · 07-19-2009, 12:10 PM

I'm absolutely astonished that so much information has apparently been given away here. I would imagine that Chris won't be too happy when he sees it, not to put too fine a point on it. I certainly wouldn't be.

Liz Morgan · 07-19-2009, 02:59 PM

Nothing that's not on the sales page is here, we're just debating the possibility of it's claims.

Jason Dolman · 07-19-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

I'm aware of that, but I'll say it again - the whole premise or value of the product is that it doesn't need to be a revenue generating site.

Can't say I've read every single word on the sales page, but the only reference I see of a non-income generating site that sold for good money is the one Dave says sold for $5K because the buyer was looking for a site in the niche with content already indexed.

To me... that's more right place, right time then something I'd expect to happen time and time again. I think you're taking this one example (or a few others I may have missed) and running with it rather than the many examples of income-earning sites that were sold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Secondly, the target audience for the product is not people who have the ability to generate revenue through a site - it's newbies who haven't be able to do that.

Please allow me to be blunt for a moment (not towards you in particular but to the mindset you express in the above statement)...

Mike Filsaime was a newbie... so was John Reese... Frank Kern... you name 'em.

Just because you haven't been able to do something yet doesn't mean you can't do it.

If someone is seriously considering this model of making money online, they will have to either learn the skills needed to build and promote the sites they create or have enough cash flow to outsource it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Lastly, another strong point the sales letter makes is that managing volumes of revenue generating sites is not as lucrative as selling them off since the revenue inevitably fades away the more sites you have.

The point is -- in order to sustain the level of income and traffic the site receives, you will need to continue to promote and market the site, a task that requires time, effort, and possibly money.

Rather than putting that time, effort, and money into continually promoting an existing site, Dave has found it more profitable to sell the site for a one-time lump sum and put the energy into building another site he'll eventually sell as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying there needs to be more evidence it actually can considering the bold sales price claims of non revenue generating sites.

Once again... correct me if I'm wrong, but I only see one example of a non-revenue generating site being sold for a substantial sum of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

And most importantly the significant time investment involved before seeing any hint of success or a return on efforts.

You're kidding, right?

Do you think the farmer just wishes his crop will flourish and buyers will come banging on his door to give him money for his happy thoughts?

Do you think the real estate agent just puts a sign on the front lawn and hopes people will buy the house?

I hate to break it to you, but unless you're putting all your eggs into winning the lottery or your rich grandma dying and leaving everything to you... you're going to have to put effort into your results.

Jason

myshovel · 07-19-2009, 08:55 PM

I have had my hands on various drafts of the 'profit loophole' for months. Every revision got better and better.

Two things: DON'T RUSH YOUR KW RESEARCH! I know thats IM101 here, but lesson learned.

Second: This is not a get rich quick process. But more a 'make solid money' process. I have built 7 of these sites and it is alot of work, but even as stated in the sales page, Dave has buyers waiting. Down the road when my time is better spent elsewhere, I will turn into a buyer, not a creator of sites like these.

Another reason people will buy sites like these even if there is minimal or no revenue is the aging of a site. The potential buyer doesn't need to sit on his hands waiting for full blown promotion building links, etc.

Just a few things to add here....

-Shawn

Mitch Miller · 07-19-2009, 09:21 PM

It's amusing that people think too much of Dave's latest loophole has been exposed in this thread. If what's been discussed is to much exposure of the system, then it makes me wonder what is really there to begin with.

You establish a pipeline of sites at the rate of 5 a month, drive traffic and make a little money from them, then sell? That is what is being considered as blowing the top off of Dave's "loophole"?

Jeremy Kelsall · 07-19-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Miller

It's amusing that people think too much of Dave's latest loophole has been exposed in this thread. If what's been discussed is to much exposure of the system, then it makes me wonder what is really there to begin with.

You establish a pipeline of sites at the rate of 5 a month, drive traffic and make a little money from them, then sell? That is what is being considered as blowing the top off of Dave's "loophole"?

I didn't make my comments because of what has already been talked about, but if you look at the review thread for the other loophole product by the 4th page the whole ebook was laid out in the discussion.

Reviewing the product is fine, but giving everything away is unfair.

Akogo · 07-19-2009, 11:44 PM

Up until these previous posts, if you have read the salesletter, purchased and read the ebook, watched the videos and looked at the bonuses, you will discover practically nothing has been given away in the review. No mention of the exact formula for calculating selling price was revealed... The auction site urls where not mentioned... The exact type of content wasn't revealed which he uses and is successful for him... The way he promotes these sites was never revealed... 98 to 99% is still safely tucked inside. I doubt anyone can take what has been said so far here and duplicate the process without the course.

Jeremy Kelsall · 07-20-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akogo

Up until these previous posts, if you have read the salesletter, purchased and read the ebook, watched the videos and looked at the bonuses, you will discover practically nothing has been given away in the review. No mention of the exact formula for calculating selling price was revealed... The auction site urls where not mentioned... The exact type of content wasn't revealed which he uses and is successful for him... The way he promotes these sites was never revealed... 98 to 99% is still safely tucked inside. I doubt anyone can take what has been said so far here and duplicate the process without the course.

I agree

I only made mention early on because of the way the last thread went. Chris and Dave appear to cause a bit of a "stir" especially here in the review section and I was only chiming in as a reminder to not disclose the whole method because of what happened before.

I think that this is a method that can and will definitely work for a percentage of people just like any other method will. It will really boil down to who can actually wrap their head around the information and actually on faith put it to use without second guessing and doubting themselves in the process.

Mitch Miller · 07-20-2009, 02:11 AM

In the previous thread (MSN Loophole), they only created a stir because there was a mob that wasn't real happy with the product that they had been sold.

Wonderbaum · 07-20-2009, 04:07 AM

Does anyone know if there is a forum for people that have bought the product or if Dave has a blog where you can ask him questions? As Akogo stated in the second post there are some areas in the report that is not discussed in detail and it would be great if there was a way to get Dave to explain them in more details.

/Mikael

Alexa Smith · 07-20-2009, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Nothing that's not on the sales page is here

In that case I stand corrected. Thanks for your post!

Carlton Johnson · 07-20-2009, 07:04 AM

Hi all,

I don't want re-ignite this thread but thanks for everyone for contributing to this thread. I am glad there was some healthy debate and I am glad that people’s fears of everything about Dave and Chris's product being revealed, have not come to pass.

I am not a newbie, and I just wanted a bit of clarification, and this thread has helped.

The truth is that I have a lot of time for Chris and Dave since their methods and products have helped me a lot in the past and continue to do so. (In fact Chris is one of my favourite online marketers and Dave's linkvana is priceless to me)

I might still try this one in the future, after I finish my current projects, since I want to add site flipping to my methods of making money online.

I have no doubt as to Dave's expertise in this area. My only doubts where whether things are spelt out in a way that is easily repeatable and will continue to be sustainable in the long run.

ecdavis · 07-23-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akogo

Of course there's no guarantee any plan will work for everyone. However, from the way Dave speaks I'm convince he himself is an authority on the selling of sites and is successful at it. If nothing else, he'll teach you how to build traffic and revenue generating websites. . . . I hope only people who bought post their honest opinion and suggestions.

Right. I will add that I have bought the course, read the book, watched all the videos, and examined the bonuses. I also don't think that the course has been given away, here. Although I can't address the "possibility" issue of whether or not you can make the same kind of money Dave makes selling sites or whether his figures are realistic, I can say that in my opinion, Dave addresses the earnings issue thoroughly in the course. He also explains in detail how he arrives at pricing a single site for sale as well how he prices sites sold in bulk. Although he does not really address some of the issues of exactly how you go about transferring a domain and moving site files from one server to another, he does write in explicit, clear and abundant detail about the kind of site he develops and how you build traffic and revenue (using adsense). He provides a chart and a video to make the system of promotion easily understood. He also walks you through the process of how he markets and sells sites. Again, in my opinion, the explanation provided is ample and exceedingly clear. All in all, there are 10 videos provided to augment the written course material. As you read through the book, he indicates which videos you should watch. Dave also talks about the need to approach this model, as any IM activity, as a business and the need to follow through on a business plan-or plan of action--to see any real success in IM. That's a point that I feel is often overlooked in IM, the need for a business plan. It is all too easy to forget that people like Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, James Schramko, Yannik Silver, for example, have business in their blood and were highly successful in business before their success in IM. Anway, to finish up, I think Newbies sincerely interested in this sort of business model will find the course valuable and be able to make the transition from information to action. However, if you are highly experienced and already know the ropes of site flipping and have sucessful sales under your belt, this course may be less valuable for you. I will mention, as well, that Dave was very quick in answering some of the questions I had after finishing the course. One more thing, in my opinion, one of the strongest points of the course is that it is very, very clearly written. That's it. I hope this helps the discussion.

Evan

taurusguy · 07-24-2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Miller

In the previous thread (MSN Loophole), they only created a stir because there was a mob that wasn't real happy with the product that they had been sold.

Well sometimes or infact many sales pages are just OVER HYPED. Or worse thing is...rehashed information again. Nothing ground breaking.

ecdavis · 07-24-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurusguy

Well sometimes or infact many sales pages are just OVER HYPED. Or worse thing is...rehashed information again. Nothing ground breaking.

Just a reminder that this thread is about Profit Loophole. There is very little, if anything, that is "ground breaking" or even unique in business. Anyone wanting to take the time time to thoroughly research the posts in the Warrior Forum will find just about everything in IM discussed and explained, thus removing the need to spend money on any IM product. Anyone wanting to spend a year in a library can, as well, study an MBA curriculum. I don't think it is fair to use "ground breaking" or "unique" as a standard by which to judge an IM product unless it claims to be ground breaking and unique. Dave Kelly doesn't make the claim, unless I missed it in the sales page, that Profit Loophole is ground breaking. Nor do I think that the quote above is suggesting that we use "ground breaking" as a metric to measure an IM product. However, it does seem that "ground breaking" sometimes becomes a hidden standard used to judge a product.

What Dave Kelly delivers in Profit Loophole, and what we pay for, in my opinion, is his expertise in the very specific area of developing a particular kind of site for resale. The book and videos carefully lay out the model to follow in order to succeed with his particular approach. I don't believe he makes a claim to be ground breaking. However, again, he does live up to the promise to show a newbie how to use this model to make money. Profit Loophole can no more 100% guarantee that you will make money any more than a business school can 100% guarantee that each and every graduate will get a job and/or make money. Business opportunity is just that, opportunity. You take the ball and run with it as far as you can go.

Although it is true that many sales letters are over hyped, I don't believe this is the case with the Profit Loophole sales letter--again, just my opinion. The sales letter does make it pretty clear right from the beginning that this is targetted for people new to Internet marketing. However, you can read it yourself make your own decision.

If you are new to IM or in an intermediate stage and have a strong interest in developing and reselling sites as a business, you may want to check the course out. Or not. I don't know. It does have a 60 day money back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose. But you know, if you read the sales letter, and there is nothing that rings true for you, this may simply not be the right path for you.

Evan

Mitch Miller · 07-24-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurusguy

Well sometimes or infact many sales pages are just OVER HYPED. Or worse thing is...rehashed information again. Nothing ground breaking.

Well you obviously do not have any experience with that product. The sale page was definitely hyped, but there wasn't anything rehashed about the "system". Unfortunately it proved to be just theory and not reality.

Liz Morgan · 07-25-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

Can't say I've read every single word on the sales page, but the only reference I see of a non-income generating site that sold for good money is the one Dave says sold for $5K because the buyer was looking for a site in the niche with content already indexed.

To me... that's more right place, right time then something I'd expect to happen time and time again. I think you're taking this one example (or a few others I may have missed) and running with it rather than the many examples of income-earning sites that were sold.

then maybe you should start your reading with the headline on the sales page:

"If You Can Build a Crappy Little 10-Page Site or Blog That Makes Next to Nothing with Adsense or Affiliate Programs...
...Then You Have Everything it Takes to Realistically - and Consistently - Replace Your Job Income in Just a Few Month's Time..."

Yeah that sure sounds to me like one would have to be in the "right place at the right time", how about you?

Quote:

Please allow me to be blunt for a moment (not towards you in particular but to the mindset you express in the above statement)...

Mike Filsaime was a newbie... so was John Reese... Frank Kern... you name 'em.

Just because you haven't been able to do something yet doesn't mean you can't do it.

If someone is seriously considering this model of making money online, they will have to either learn the skills needed to build and promote the sites they create or have enough cash flow to outsource it.

No that's ok, I'd rather you not be blunt. I again point you to the above headline (among many other references in the sales page, promo emails, etc)- does that sound like it's aimed at people who are destined to become as successful as John Reese, Mike Filsaime, or Frank Kern? Here's some more:

99% of Newbies Have a Fat Chance in Hell of Making a Full Time Income (Let Alone Anything) Online Because:

1. They SUCK At Writing Effective Sales Copy and Ads

2. They SUCK At Picking Profitable Markets/Offers

3. They SUCK At Driving Traffic, and

4. They SUCK At Running a Business

I think this is pretty clear who the target audience is, and it's not capable online marketers..

Quote:

The point is -- in order to sustain the level of income and traffic the site receives, you will need to continue to promote and market the site, a task that requires time, effort, and possibly money.

Rather than putting that time, effort, and money into continually promoting an existing site, Dave has found it more profitable to sell the site for a one-time lump sum and put the energy into building another site he'll eventually sell as well.

I understand that, but if a given person was able to get a site profitable enough for it to be desirable on the market, they could most likely outsource the work and pyramid the profits until reaching their desired income rather than selling. Seems like that's the better play to me, but each to his/her own. I'm simply concluding that the product is aimed at people whose skill level is not there yet, and need this product for a solution to that problem. Thus the reason for my initial concerns about lack of evidence in the sales process that unprofitable sites (or those earning next to nothing) can be sold for so much.

Quote:

Once again... correct me if I'm wrong, but I only see one example of a non-revenue generating site being sold for a substantial sum of money.

Once again, the headline, and overall message of the sales letter is that sites can make "next to nothing", not that one would have to be in the right place at the right time - or otherwise get lucky.

Quote:

You're kidding, right?

Do you think the farmer just wishes his crop will flourish and buyers will come banging on his door to give him money for his happy thoughts?

Do you think the real estate agent just puts a sign on the front lawn and hopes people will buy the house?

I hate to break it to you, but unless you're putting all your eggs into winning the lottery or your rich grandma dying and leaving everything to you... you're going to have to put effort into your results.

No you're kidding right? Farming and IM... yeah I see the parallel!!! Gotta say, that's the lamest analogy I've ever seen. But lame analogies aside, I can find dozens of money making strategies on this site that with the same effort you mention, will have a person making money a lot faster than 4 - 6 months. What about you? Pretty much every self funding business opportunity I've ever pursued (especially service models) allow the individual to get paid a lot quicker -- not that 4 - 6 months is ridiculously long, but relatively. Take offline gold for instance, if you put consistent effort in for a 2 - 6 weeks, you're surely gonna get paid. And that's a far cry from 4 - 6 months.

By the comments of some of the buyers who have the product, it sounds like it's pretty detailed and solid overall, however it doesn't look like any of these people have actually attempted to sell their sites yet, so in that regard, the jury is still out I suppose.

Jason Dolman · 07-26-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

then maybe you should start your reading with the headline on the sales page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Once again, the headline, and overall message of the sales letter is that sites can make "next to nothing", not that one would have to be in the right place at the right time - or otherwise get lucky.

I know what the headline says and it did it's job: got you to read the rest of the letter... where you learn the "next to nothing" example was able to sell due to the intrinsic value (indexed, SEO optimized pages) it held with the buyer.

The sales letter is filled with many examples of sites that sold only after generating revenue and only one (or a few) that did not generate any or little revenue before being sold.

Since the majority of the sites required revenue before being sold, let's just forget about the few that didn't as they are outliers in the data (math guy here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

I again point you to the above headline (among many other references in the sales page, promo emails, etc)- does that sound like it's aimed at people who are destined to become as successful as John Reese, Mike Filsaime, or Frank Kern?
....
I think this is pretty clear who the target audience is, and it's not capable online marketers..
....
I'm simply concluding that the product is aimed at people whose skill level is not there yet, and need this product for a solution to that problem.

You originally said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Secondly, the target audience for the product is not people who have the ability to generate revenue through a site - it's newbies who haven't be able to do that.

I'm not disagreeing about whether or not the product is aimed at newbies, I agree it is. My disagreement is with the additional logical step you take in your agruement.

Since I'm a math guy at heart, the equation you presented was: Newbie = No ability to generate revenue through a site.

To counter that statement, I presented a small list of well-known, successful marketers who were once newbies without the ability to generate revenue through a site. I choose them not because they are outrageously successful from a financial standpoint, but because most people would recognize the names and get the point:

Just because you haven't done something before, doesn't mean you can't do it.

Since the product is aimed at newbies, Dave does cover the small important things one would need to do to create a successful revenue generating site that would be attractive to potential buyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

I understand that, but if a given person was able to get a site profitable enough for it to be desirable on the market, they could most likely outsource the work and pyramid the profits until reaching their desired income rather than selling. Seems like that's the better play to me, but each to his/her own.

As I said, I'm a math guy... so let's do this:

You can build one site every 2 days.
Once the site is built, you need to spend 5 days marketing the site.
Once the site is built and marketed, those initial efforts will generate 4 months of traffic and income before you need to re-market the site.
1 week = 1 site built and marketed

After 4 months, a site will average $5 per day income.

To make $100 per day (the equivalent of a $50,000 pre-tax yearly income), you'd need to create 20 sites. Since 1 site = 1 week, it would take you 20 weeks to create this level of income.

Problem though... since 20 weeks is about 5 months, the sites you made in month 1 must be re-marketed. So, you spend 5 of your days in month 4, week 1 re-marketing the site you built in month 1, week 1. Yes, you still have 2 days left to create the new site, but how are you going to market it? Since you need to re-market the site you built in month 1, week 2, you'll only have 2 days left to market the new site you built the previous week.

Hence the farming analogy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

No you're kidding right? Farming and IM... yeah I see the parallel!!! Gotta say, that's the lamest analogy I've ever seen.

You can plant the seeds in the ground... that's not the difficult part, just as building a website is not the difficult part of succeeding in marketing online.

The difficult and time-consuming part of farming comes from sowing the seeds, growing the crop, and establishing a distribution channel to generate a profit... just as the difficult and time-consuming part of marketing online comes from marketing and promoting the website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

But lame analogies aside, I can find dozens of money making strategies on this site that with the same effort you mention, will have a person making money a lot faster than 4 - 6 months. What about you? Pretty much every self funding business opportunity I've ever pursued (especially service models) allow the individual to get paid a lot quicker -- not that 4 - 6 months is ridiculously long, but relatively.

You are getting paid during the first 4-6 months of the sites life. As stated earlier, the majority of sites generate revenue before being sold, so you do have an income coming in during that time. Then, the larger payday comes from leveraging those earlier efforts and the results they've generated by selling the site for 5-10 times monthly revenue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

Take offline gold for instance, if you put consistent effort in for a 2 - 6 weeks, you're surely gonna get paid. And that's a far cry from 4 - 6 months.

Apples and oranges.

Although the skills of creating a website and promoting it are the same, the "sale" of the site requires entirely different skill sets.

The offline gold model requires the sale based on the idea - the site isn't created yet - and more one-on-one personal interaction than the Profit Loophole method.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Morgan

By the comments of some of the buyers who have the product, it sounds like it's pretty detailed and solid overall, however it doesn't look like any of these people have actually attempted to sell their sites yet, so in that regard, the jury is still out I suppose.

The Profit Loophole method does work... just look at the number of sites for sale at Flippa.com.

What Dave has done is taken the site flipping model and turned into a repeatable, scalable, and consistent business model.

It will teach you how to choose a market, build a site, promote it, generate short-term profits, sell it for a lump sum, and then repeat the whole process all over again.

If you think that's something you can do... or are willing to put in the effort to learn how to do it, I think Profit Loophole would be a wise investment, unless the other self-funding business opportunities you've pursued are proving fruitful enough you don't have the need to, of course.

Jason

MarkTX · 07-30-2009, 02:43 PM

I emailed Dave and asked him if WordPress sites could be used for his method.

His reply:

"Hi Mark, it can work though IMO it makes it more difficult to sell for a couple reasons..

1) the need to transfer and backup a database is required with wordpress, unless both parties are secure in how to do this, it wil reduce the buyer pool, 100% of my buyers are looking for static HTML sites.. that is not to say wordpress can't sell, but I don't fell they monetize as well, but yes, they can be sold, I think it's just a bit tougher and they will have a smaller market than would a static HTML site i the same niche but that doesn't mean they would sell for less."

Since I've built more sites with WP and not so much with static html, I asked about any recommended resources for building them. Dave replied:

"We are actually going to make some templates available, and Chris is working on a list of low cost or freebie HTML editors that can be used (as well as some of the premier ones like dreamweaver.. that we hope to have ready next week".

So it seems like WP is not the way to go with Profit Loophole, in case you were wondering!

Liz Morgan · 07-31-2009, 09:20 AM

I asked him the same thing, although his response was not as thorough as the one he gave you, he basically gave me the same answer.

Akogo · 07-31-2009, 09:40 AM

To purchasers of Profit Loophole, Dave created two new videos explaining WordPress vs. Static sites and transferring domain names through GoDaddy (but didn't get into transferring the actual HTML files). What's also new is he supplied two sample web page templates you plugin your own info (several more varieties to come).

madmonko · 07-31-2009, 06:30 PM

I believe the Profit Loophole strategy is very doable. To get a mini site to earn $2 a day with adsense in 5 month is easy, especially if you promote your site with article marketing and social networking.

Picking the right niche is also important. Financial and mortgage related keywords pay more. Art related do not make any money. I have tried it. So pick you niche carefully.

Doing keyword research correctly is also very important. Pick keywords with not much competition. You want to target keywords that you can easily rank in Google. You can just post 10 articles for your mini site (as recommended in Profit Loophole). However, I would recommend you do more to target more keywords to get more traffic to get more adsense earnings.

Assuming your mini site is earning $2 per day from adsense, that is about $60 per month. You can sell your site for 10x of its monthly income, which is about $600. Profit Loophole suggest you sell 5 sites per month. So 5 x $600 is $3,000 a month. This strategy is very doable. You can make more than $3,000 a month by selling more sites a month or making more daily income with your adsense sites.

Mitch Miller · 07-31-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonko

Assuming your mini site is earning $2 per day from adsense, that is about $60 per month. You can sell your site for 10x of its monthly income, which is about $600. Profit Loophole suggest you sell 5 sites per month. So 5 x $600 is $3,000 a month. This strategy is very doable. You can make more than $3,000 a month by selling more sites a month or making more daily income with your adsense sites.

And you needed a course to show you that? Isn't that what site flippers have been doing for a few years now? Where is the loophole? That just seems like some good ole fashioned IM work in the trenches to me.

ecdavis · 08-02-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Miller

And you needed a course to show you that?

Yes. While to some, this may seem as obvious as the sun rising each morning, When you are new or inexperienced with a particular skill set, the answer to that may very well be yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Miller

Isn't that what site flippers have been doing for a few years now? Where is the loophole? That just seems like some good ole fashioned IM work in the trenches to me.

Maybe. But this course is very clearly written to show how to flip a particular sort of site that can be built very quickly yet still provide high quality, orginal content. Anyone already comfortable with site flipping and making money from turning over sites might not find this a useful product. I couldn't say. The sales page does make it clear that this is for people new to this. In my opinion, it is much more than IM repackaging. Again, if you are already skilled at site flipping and understand how to set this up as a business model (as opposed to gimmick), then this is probably not the course for you, and it might seem like repackaging. Anyway, this is my opinion. By the way, the course does not go into site design, html, or wordpress. However, Dave has provided some templates to use for site construction.

I will add that Dave Kelly has been quick to answer my questions, and that, for me, enhances the value of the course (I've purchased and read and viewed all materials). As I will have other questions, this support is valuable to me. Anyway, these are some thoughts as as satisfied customer. The course, as any product, obviously, won't be for everyone.

Evan

jimmytron · 08-03-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I'm absolutely astonished that so much information has apparently been given away here. I would imagine that Chris won't be too happy when he sees it, not to put too fine a point on it. I certainly wouldn't be.

I expect not, I wouldn't be a very happy camper either! Im sure they worked very hard on this.

abelacts · 08-06-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonam22

In short, Profit Loophole is a systemic process of finding a niche, creating a simple website (10 pages of content), driving traffic to the website, monetize the website, and finally sell the website for a profit.In my opinion, the only main difference from traditional site flipping methods lies in making the site profitable (target: Adsense income of 2-3 bucks a day). If your site is profitable, you can fetch a higher selling price.

No wonder these sentences sound so familiar! They are taken from my blog wholesale about PL review:

Profit Loophole Review

I can't imagine people do this! Should I be mad at this? Or should I take it as a compliment?

GautamSaha · 09-08-2009, 12:42 AM

Any one sold any "5-pack" yet?
How much did you earn in those 5 sites?
5x100 = $500
or
5x100 = $5000
Need some real proof from any Warrior.

Cheers!

7_8_shortcuts · 09-18-2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecdavis

What Dave Kelly delivers in Profit Loophole, and what we pay for, in my opinion, is his expertise in the very specific area of developing a particular kind of site for resale. The book and videos carefully lay out the model to follow in order to succeed with his particular approach...
Evan

True...

one more thing:

In my opinion there are several things that are good about this product.

1.) The whole approach is very formulaic and repeatable and...
this is a big advantage,

Why?

because... once you set the components together, you can begin outsourcing the whole process
easily and that's where the magic happens...

There are only very few key components to the whole system. This is ideal as a long-term consistent strategy, even if you are doing things on your own (without outsourcing)

2.) It's an entire business-model laid out in one place.

Not just some parts of it, but an entire business model, from getting the content created (in a specific way), to creating multiple small sites (in a specific way with templates) to making quick profit out of them (in a specific way).

Well, let's think about some other business models out there...

- RSS feeds?

or maybe...

- SEO?

or...

- Affiliate Marketing?

Hmmm, non of these have anything to do with a business-model. They are just ONE element/tactic in the sea of many-many elements that are required together in order to create a SUSTAINABLE income model that will stay (or better grow).

With the Profit Loophole, you get the entire business model in one place.

All steps together... up to the final step, being monetization and even for that there is a formulaic approach.

People who can't see the value of that... should re-consider in my opinion.

You will rarely see a product that's step-by-step (to me at least).

Yeah, I know.... they actually ALL promise "step-by-step", but... how many have you read where they haven't left at least 50% out of the actual complete approach? I have... many.

The PL system is very solid.

(just my opinion)

Skywriting · 10-23-2009, 12:19 AM

The loophole is even slicker these days.
1. Build the sites right and Dave sells them to his regular customers.
and
2. He bought out the super-apprentice system which templates the sites for you. And includes keyword research and other tools.

I'm happy with my first month. And Dave answers my emails.

Wonderbaum · 10-23-2009, 01:13 AM

Is anyone seeing the results that Dave shows in the case study? I've setup 8 sites and the first 4 or in their 3 month and I have been unable to produce the traffic that Dave has on his for any of the 4.

rickstooker · 11-13-2009, 12:13 AM

The part I continue to question is the inevitability of the decline in search
engine rankings after six months or so. (assuming you don't do something to make Google mad at you)

Is that your common experience? What if a site is well put together, has a domain
name and content tightly targeted to a specific keyword phrase that is still often
searched for search phrase and has some good links?

I mean, that's the value of micro niche sites. They're tightly targeted. They don't
dominate a niche - they grab some traffic.

sure, authority sites can compete, but can't build a content page for every single
keyword variation.

Besides, we know that Google likes older sites. So long as the sites are useful,
they should continue to rank, perhaps more highly as they age.

So perhaps these small sites might lose ground to other Profit Loophole customers,
especially ones who use more links, but otherwise, why should it be inevitable that
small sites fall behind for their specific target keywords?

And there's a related question -- if they do, how ethical is it to sell them for ten
times current earnings when they're going to drop in a month or two?

And if they do drop in income within 6 months of the sale, why are Dave's
customers continuing to buy them?

Those are my questions.

Wonderbaum · 11-13-2009, 01:20 AM

Rick, first off you're quite right that the sites don't HAVE to decline after six months. Dave states that as well. But they might.

Secondly Dave's customers continue to buy because they are not buying them to just let them die, but instead to keep growing them and building links to them and thereby not only keep the status quo (which would still be a +100% ROI) but to increase the income to make it a +300% to +500% ROI investment.

/Mikael

07-18-2009, 07:53 AM	#1
Carlton Johnson Nothing to See Here... War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Posts: 60 Thanks: 9 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Hi all, Just looking for some feeback on profit loophole by Chris Rempel and Dave Kelly. I have done a search on the forum and nobody seems to have given any feedback about this particular product yet. Now I have read posts about authority loophole and I have read plenty of opinions about Chris and Dave's MSN stuff which didn't go down very well here. However, I am interested to actually hear what someone who has actually bought it things of profit loophole. The logic doesn't seem sound in being able to sell a site for good money that is not very old and that isn't making much money, just because it fits the buyers criteria. Surely it would be much cheaper for the buyer to just outsource the creation of these sites himself so that they fit the criteria. However, I am open minded since I like Chris's blog and I like all of the reports he does. I also like Dave's linkvana. Hence, why I was wondered if anyone who actually has bought the product is willing to just give a brief review. What is it really all about and is it worth the money, or did you get a refund? Cheers Carlton

07-18-2009, 05:22 PM	#4
Carlton Johnson Nothing to See Here... War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Posts: 60 Thanks: 9 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Akogo, Thanks, that's the sort of info I was looking for. I still feel as though it doesn't make logical sense though. Even though you tried to answer my questions with the way that Dave thinks and puts things, it still doesn't quite ring true. As I mentioned, I still don't understand why these buyers don't just outsource things themselves. Dave makes it sound like he has sold several sites that only have a few pages of content and some back links, for several hundred or even thousand dollars. Now, from where I am sitting if these buyers are savvy, then they would have realized a long time ago that they could outsource this website creation for maybe a couple of hundred dollars all in rather than paying one thousand dollars plus on a consistent basis. But maybe I am looking at things from my perspective, who knows, but I need to see more proof before I believe these sorts of claims. So as regards to me being the one that they have outsourced the work to, it just doesn't fit. Now, if the truth is that in reality on average you were going to only be able to sell these sites for say $100 -$400 dollars, especially if they are hardly making any money, then I might think - Hmm, that might make sense. But as it is, this still doesn't ring true to me. I want it to be true, but I have my doubts. I know of several people that make thousands a month from adsense and selling sites, but there’s is a traditional model and the site is only worth the standard multiples of how much you earn per month X whatever the standard multiple is (I don’t know what the multiple is because I don’t currently sell sites I hold on to them). Dave makes it sound like he has a secret way of doing things. But nothing I have read so far has convinced me. I think I will keep my money in my pocket with this one. Thanks again for the review Akogo, it has helped.

07-18-2009, 05:25 PM	#5
Jeremy Kelsall Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 4,296 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 323 Thanked 1,226 Times in 421 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Carlton, There are tons of people that would prefer to just buy something than to do it themselves. Also, I understand that people are looking for feedback, but laying all the details out here isn't exactly fair to Chris and Dave.
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07-18-2009, 05:33 PM	#6
Carlton Johnson Nothing to See Here... War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Posts: 60 Thanks: 9 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Hi Jeremy, Your right in that laying out the details here isn't fair, although I don't actually think to much has been given away. And I actually outsource lots of work myself. But I find the cheapest way to outsource for quality results. It just doesn't make sense to pay many times over the odds for something you could get done just as well for cheaper. But I am very open to being convinced, it’s just that nobody has convinced me yet. It could be that they are selling to people that aren't Internet savvy and don't want to be they would rather just pay for someone else to do it and remain ignorant in this area otherwise they would have to start managing outsourcers etc. if this is the case it makes more sense. But, I will leave it at that. I do love Chris's reports and some of Dave's other stuff. It's always difficult because obviously they don't want to tell you the exact steps to take in the sales letter because then you wouldn't need to buy the product, but sometimes I think a little more info is needed to make an informed decision. Anyway, I will leave it at that. This may be a fantastic product. I was hoping it was, and I don't want to stop anyone else taking a punt on it, because it might just work for them.

07-18-2009, 05:56 PM	#7
homebse Warrior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Carlton, I think that a lot of people would rather purchase a site that is a proven money maker than to spend time and money building a site themselves or, outsourcing the development of a site, just to find out if that niche is going to be profitable. In addition, if you develop a site (or outsource) you have to build traffic to that site or outsource the expense of that also. A lot of people would prefer to manage a business than get very involved with the nitty gritty of that business. Hope this gives you a little different perspective. I found Profit Loophole to be very well documented. However, I too would like to have seen a little bit more detail on the steps required to turn over a site and its traffic to the new owner.
	I Work At Home and Love It! First Time Buyer Home Loans How To Fix Credit

07-18-2009, 06:40 PM	#8
Liz Morgan Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I too have been looking at PL, but am similarly doubting the sales price claims made. There has to be more evidence that they can actually be sold for $1K+ despite making minimal or no revenue as indicated in the sales letter. And I'd expect at least a $1K price tag per site considering that's the entire revenue generated by the site, as well as, the time commitment involved. The prospect of spending 20+ hours a week for 4 - 6 months without any solid evidence that the time investment will yield the desired return (if any at all) is a significant drawback. Dave's screenshots were from 2007 as well, which is light years in the IM arena. By no means am I saying it can't or won't work, I'm just saying prospective buyers need more evidence of the sales price claims in advance of committing that kind of $$ investment, but much more importantly, time investment. Yes, even this is less time commitment than most other business models, but there are a lot of other opportunities where cash in hand comes much quicker.

07-18-2009, 06:54 PM	#10
Jason Dolman Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,075 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Carlton, The value is the 5-6 months of time the site has been active, getting traffic, and earning money. Yes... they could hire someone to write the content, build the site, promote it, etc... but they can't get the 5-6 months of earning and traffic power the sites have already generated. That's the value (and premium) buyers are willing to pay for. Jason

07-18-2009, 07:47 PM	#12
Jeremy Kelsall Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 4,296 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 323 Thanked 1,226 Times in 421 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I didn't pick this one up, but I would hate to see the whole report discussed in detail in a thread here on the forum similar to what happened with their last product.
	CALLING THE FAKERS OUT - $1000 EASY \| Join Our List \| Do You Want To Piss People off and Get PAID!?! \| To Contact Don & Jeremy Please Use Or Support Ticket System

07-18-2009, 10:10 PM	#13
Akogo Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: , , USA. Posts: 821 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? You might have to take it on faith that it will work. Of course there's no guarantee any plan will work for everyone. However, from the way Dave speaks I'm convince he himself is an authority on the selling of sites and is successful at it. If nothing else, he'll teach you how to build traffic and revenue generating websites. I hope the mods don't delete this thread and no ex-customers start something negative. I hope only people who bought post their honest opinion and suggestions.
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07-19-2009, 12:10 PM	#15
Alexa Smith Wordsmith War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,852 Thanks: 669 Thanked 509 Times in 368 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I'm absolutely astonished that so much information has apparently been given away here. I would imagine that Chris won't be too happy when he sees it, not to put too fine a point on it. I certainly wouldn't be.
	Alexa Smith ... ... writes many things that snap, crackle and pop, but not too many signature-files.

07-19-2009, 02:59 PM	#16
Liz Morgan Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Nothing that's not on the sales page is here, we're just debating the possibility of it's claims.

07-19-2009, 08:55 PM	#18
myshovel Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I have had my hands on various drafts of the 'profit loophole' for months. Every revision got better and better. Two things: DON'T RUSH YOUR KW RESEARCH! I know thats IM101 here, but lesson learned. Second: This is not a get rich quick process. But more a 'make solid money' process. I have built 7 of these sites and it is alot of work, but even as stated in the sales page, Dave has buyers waiting. Down the road when my time is better spent elsewhere, I will turn into a buyer, not a creator of sites like these. Another reason people will buy sites like these even if there is minimal or no revenue is the aging of a site. The potential buyer doesn't need to sit on his hands waiting for full blown promotion building links, etc. Just a few things to add here.... -Shawn

07-19-2009, 09:21 PM	#19
Mitch Miller The BS Detector Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 82 Thanks: 3 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? It's amusing that people think too much of Dave's latest loophole has been exposed in this thread. If what's been discussed is to much exposure of the system, then it makes me wonder what is really there to begin with. You establish a pipeline of sites at the rate of 5 a month, drive traffic and make a little money from them, then sell? That is what is being considered as blowing the top off of Dave's "loophole"?

07-19-2009, 11:44 PM	#21
Akogo Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: , , USA. Posts: 821 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Up until these previous posts, if you have read the salesletter, purchased and read the ebook, watched the videos and looked at the bonuses, you will discover practically nothing has been given away in the review. No mention of the exact formula for calculating selling price was revealed... The auction site urls where not mentioned... The exact type of content wasn't revealed which he uses and is successful for him... The way he promotes these sites was never revealed... 98 to 99% is still safely tucked inside. I doubt anyone can take what has been said so far here and duplicate the process without the course.
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07-20-2009, 02:11 AM	#23
Mitch Miller The BS Detector Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 82 Thanks: 3 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? In the previous thread (MSN Loophole), they only created a stir because there was a mob that wasn't real happy with the product that they had been sold.

07-20-2009, 04:07 AM	#24
Wonderbaum It is never too late... Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 40 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Contact Info	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Does anyone know if there is a forum for people that have bought the product or if Dave has a blog where you can ask him questions? As Akogo stated in the second post there are some areas in the report that is not discussed in detail and it would be great if there was a way to get Dave to explain them in more details. /Mikael
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07-20-2009, 07:04 AM	#26
Carlton Johnson Nothing to See Here... War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Posts: 60 Thanks: 9 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Hi all, I don't want re-ignite this thread but thanks for everyone for contributing to this thread. I am glad there was some healthy debate and I am glad that people’s fears of everything about Dave and Chris's product being revealed, have not come to pass. I am not a newbie, and I just wanted a bit of clarification, and this thread has helped. The truth is that I have a lot of time for Chris and Dave since their methods and products have helped me a lot in the past and continue to do so. (In fact Chris is one of my favourite online marketers and Dave's linkvana is priceless to me) I might still try this one in the future, after I finish my current projects, since I want to add site flipping to my methods of making money online. I have no doubt as to Dave's expertise in this area. My only doubts where whether things are spelt out in a way that is easily repeatable and will continue to be sustainable in the long run.

07-30-2009, 02:43 PM	#33
MarkTX Warrior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I emailed Dave and asked him if WordPress sites could be used for his method. His reply: "Hi Mark, it can work though IMO it makes it more difficult to sell for a couple reasons.. 1) the need to transfer and backup a database is required with wordpress, unless both parties are secure in how to do this, it wil reduce the buyer pool, 100% of my buyers are looking for static HTML sites.. that is not to say wordpress can't sell, but I don't fell they monetize as well, but yes, they can be sold, I think it's just a bit tougher and they will have a smaller market than would a static HTML site i the same niche but that doesn't mean they would sell for less." Since I've built more sites with WP and not so much with static html, I asked about any recommended resources for building them. Dave replied: "We are actually going to make some templates available, and Chris is working on a list of low cost or freebie HTML editors that can be used (as well as some of the premier ones like dreamweaver.. that we hope to have ready next week". So it seems like WP is not the way to go with Profit Loophole, in case you were wondering!

07-31-2009, 09:20 AM	#34
Liz Morgan Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I asked him the same thing, although his response was not as thorough as the one he gave you, he basically gave me the same answer.

07-31-2009, 09:40 AM	#35
Akogo Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: , , USA. Posts: 821 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? To purchasers of Profit Loophole, Dave created two new videos explaining WordPress vs. Static sites and transferring domain names through GoDaddy (but didn't get into transferring the actual HTML files). What's also new is he supplied two sample web page templates you plugin your own info (several more varieties to come).
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07-31-2009, 06:30 PM	#36
madmonko Warrior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? I believe the Profit Loophole strategy is very doable. To get a mini site to earn $2 a day with adsense in 5 month is easy, especially if you promote your site with article marketing and social networking. Picking the right niche is also important. Financial and mortgage related keywords pay more. Art related do not make any money. I have tried it. So pick you niche carefully. Doing keyword research correctly is also very important. Pick keywords with not much competition. You want to target keywords that you can easily rank in Google. You can just post 10 articles for your mini site (as recommended in Profit Loophole). However, I would recommend you do more to target more keywords to get more traffic to get more adsense earnings. Assuming your mini site is earning $2 per day from adsense, that is about $60 per month. You can sell your site for 10x of its monthly income, which is about $600. Profit Loophole suggest you sell 5 sites per month. So 5 x $600 is $3,000 a month. This strategy is very doable. You can make more than $3,000 a month by selling more sites a month or making more daily income with your adsense sites.

09-08-2009, 12:42 AM	#41
GautamSaha Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: On the Net Posts: 61 Thanks: 36 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Any one sold any "5-pack" yet? How much did you earn in those 5 sites? 5x100 = $500 or 5x100 = $5000 Need some real proof from any Warrior. Cheers!

10-23-2009, 12:19 AM	#43
Skywriting Warrior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? The loophole is even slicker these days. 1. Build the sites right and Dave sells them to his regular customers. and 2. He bought out the super-apprentice system which templates the sites for you. And includes keyword research and other tools. I'm happy with my first month. And Dave answers my emails.

10-23-2009, 01:13 AM	#44
Wonderbaum It is never too late... Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 40 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Contact Info	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Is anyone seeing the results that Dave shows in the case study? I've setup 8 sites and the first 4 or in their 3 month and I have been unable to produce the traffic that Dave has on his for any of the 4.
	Regards, Mikael Rieck Discover How To Retire Early Taking These Simple Steps

11-13-2009, 12:13 AM	#45
rickstooker HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ballwin, MO, USA. Posts: 176 Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? The part I continue to question is the inevitability of the decline in search engine rankings after six months or so. (assuming you don't do something to make Google mad at you) Is that your common experience? What if a site is well put together, has a domain name and content tightly targeted to a specific keyword phrase that is still often searched for search phrase and has some good links? I mean, that's the value of micro niche sites. They're tightly targeted. They don't dominate a niche - they grab some traffic. sure, authority sites can compete, but can't build a content page for every single keyword variation. Besides, we know that Google likes older sites. So long as the sites are useful, they should continue to rank, perhaps more highly as they age. So perhaps these small sites might lose ground to other Profit Loophole customers, especially ones who use more links, but otherwise, why should it be inevitable that small sites fall behind for their specific target keywords? And there's a related question -- if they do, how ethical is it to sell them for ten times current earnings when they're going to drop in a month or two? And if they do drop in income within 6 months of the sale, why are Dave's customers continuing to buy them? Those are my questions.
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11-13-2009, 01:20 AM	#46
Wonderbaum It is never too late... Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 40 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Contact Info	Re: Did You Buy Profit Loophole? What are Your Thoughts? Rick, first off you're quite right that the sites don't HAVE to decline after six months. Dave states that as well. But they might. Secondly Dave's customers continue to buy because they are not buying them to just let them die, but instead to keep growing them and building links to them and thereby not only keep the status quo (which would still be a +100% ROI) but to increase the income to make it a +300% to +500% ROI investment. /Mikael
	Regards, Mikael Rieck Discover How To Retire Early Taking These Simple Steps