tremayne

Does anyone know of a reliable alternative to PayPal? I've had enough of their ridiculous internal policies. Help, advice, suggestions, comments will be appreciated.

Sydney

FaJeeb

Google Checkout, which is pretty much an identical twin to PayPal.

I've been happy with Authorize.Net, but Wells Fargo Merchant is my favorite, however I'm not positive that you have access to Wells Fargo in Panama.

tremayne

Thanks FaJeeb!

I will check out Wells Fargo to see if it is available to me. I have a major CPA/continuity product launch coming up in January and expect tens of thousands in monthly income so I definitely want reliability and none of PayPal's nonsense. Too much already!!!

Sydney

Headfirst

I haven't had any issues with paypal, but I wouldn't rely on it for a big launch. Google Checkout that was mentioned above is quite good as is amazon simple payment system.

AverageGuy

2checkout.com is good.


david

tremayne

Thanks Headfirst! I will check out both of them. Google and Amazon are both highly trusted and I already use Amazon servers for customers to download my content. I totally agree with you about PayPal. I have been just testing the water with small orders so far; they would freeze my account the first week if predictions about the launch are anywhere near accurate!

Sydney

tremayne

Thank you David! I will check them out.

Tonight I have also been checking out CC Bill. I see lots of complaints, but then I see lots about all of them! Complaints get published; kudos rarely do. But I have been impressed with how the customer service people have responded to most of these complaints.

With the sums I may be receiving monthly after the launch I am doubly nervous about everyone! I'm sure everyone can understand that.

All the best,

Sydney

gottahave

When I have a launch due, I always advise Paypal first. Its just another pre-launch requirement.

Neil

HomeBizNizz

epassporte, a paypal clone.

Scott Murdaugh

Paypal screwed me after 6 years of being a model customer... For absolutely no reason. I've used Google checkout and 2CO and like them both. GC has lower transaction fees, not sure about continuity though.

-Scott

tremayne

As I said earlier, with the expected size of this launch PP would freeze my account in an instant.

But far more than that, PP will not send money to a Panamanian bank. I have a bank in Canada as well, but PP insists on converting U.S dollars to Canadian - which then have to be converted into U.S. That round trip alone, not counting PP's fees, adds 11.5% in costs - very poor business from my perspective.

Sorry, Neil, but PP is out!

Sydney

tremayne

I'll check it, but I think it is less known than some of the others and that could affect sales volume.

Sydney

tremayne

Hi Scott:

I have been with PP about the same length of time. Sorry to hear of your experience. They have not screwed me yet, but I know they would moments after my launch.

Google and 2CO are both on my list to check, and I am also curious about CC Bill. Within reason, cost is not a huge factor so long as I get what I pay for. PP, due to their curious rules about switching currencies, would cost me a total of about 14 whopping percent! That's 5.75% each way for the bank in Canada to switch U.S dollars back into U.S dollars after PP switches them into Canadian (!!!) so they can be sent to me here in Panama where the currency is the U.S dollar.

PP clearly doesn't want my business so I will take it away as soon as I find somewhere safe and cooperative to send it. I still have six weeks or so before the launch.

Sydney

Istvan Horvath

Yep, that's the craziest thing.
I am also in Canada and I have a USD account with my bank, besides my CAD account(s).

I was trying for quite a while to convince PP to let me connect my USD account to my paypal... so that I can withdraw the funds in USD because I am paid anyway in US dollars and I could have deposited the money in my USD account.

I was told they cannot do that. Never understood why not but that's how it works.

Practically, PP put me in a situation that I am constantly praying that the Canadian dollar stays weak (compared to USD) - so that I get more money when my income is converted.

Slaughter

Google Checkout! The best alternative to PayPal.

JeffLam

Am also looking for a reliable alternative to paypal.

Paypal has screwed me over several times too.

Sydney, I'm gonna keep track of this thread. Thanks!

Meanwhile, checking out Google Checkout.

tremayne

Hi Istvan!

I also have accounts in both currencies in Canada and went through the same performance as you. I have given up trying to understand PP and will move on to somewhere less inflexible. My situation is even more complicated because I now live in Panama where the currency *is* the U.S dollar - but PP refuses to deposit U.S $$ from my Panamanian PP account into my Panamanian bank. I can put money in but I can't withdraw it, only spend it.

Why the h*** would I want to spend tens of thousands a month with PP? I have other ideas for the money (and they don't coincide with PP's). Anyone would think it was *their* money!

Sydney

Sydney

tremayne

Let me know what you discover and I will do the same through this thread. Maybe we can all end up with the best alternative though geography may dictate different strokes for different folks.

Sydney

JeffLam

Just checked out Google Checkout.

To be precise, if you are using it for a seller, you are using Google Checkout Merchant.

The sad thing I notice immediately? It is available only for US and UK. No love for Asia I guess.

James Campbell

Check out fastspring.com I have been hearing good things about them, plus you will still be able to accept paypal.

Best Regards,
James Campbell

FaJeeb

I used to be a processor for a couple months for CC Bill. They are mostly used for pornography, and as a result have very high fees to make up for charge backs from consumers.

Steve Powers

Have you ever thought about Moneybookers?Nowadays,it becomes more and more popular.Maybe you can check it out.Good luck.

Arun Kumar

I believe that alert pay is the best alternative to paypal but paypal is the best one than any other.

dragonetinvestments

Google checkout, is the way to go never had any problems, apart from when they recently stopped accepting debit cards (maestro) from the uk, now only credit cards

Alexa Smith

I agree with Samantha. AlertPay have been getting better and better over the last couple of years and seem now to have reached the point of great reliability and good customer service.

I use PayPal and AlertPay and (slightly to my surprise) actually feel more comfortable dealing with AlertPay.

Like many people living in the UK, I have bad experience of Google Checkout. I think it never really took off as intended, and has nearly checked itself out?

From everything I've heard, I would stay well away from CCBill. However good/safe it might actually be, it has a widespread dreadful shady/scammy reputation and there may therefore be many potential customers unwilling to use it(?).

Good luck!

Profit-smart

Im an advocate of Plimus.com

They process paypal, moneybookers, etc for you.

LivingCovers

Fastspring.com is cool, however, Hmmm...!!! I see that the,

reasonable pricing structure of either just 5.9% plus $.95 per transaction or a flat rate of 8.9% (minimum fee of $0.75 per transaction)

is quite high. Almost 10%?

seasoned

ALSO, merchant accounts require that you DECLARE that you sell porn, if you will, and so they charge a higher discount! Even with GOOD credit and NO chargebacks, costs are HIGHER!

Steve

milan

I've been using Plimus.com .It's super easy to use and you can configure almost anything. They have many many features, they are super flexible. There are many ways you get your money out. You can set up an account within minutes which sounds great but is probably why their system is paranoid at times. A robot might call your customer over the phone to confirm if they really ordered your product. There are other certain little annoying things (like, they don't seem to fight charge back requests), but I've tried many payment companies over the years and Plimus is one of the best ones.

Alexa Smith

Liberty Reserve is a nightmare for customers to use. It's often the last resort of people who can't find any other way to do online business routinely because nobody else will do business with them, and I suspect too many people know that to make it much of a viable option: it makes people suspicious (and often rightly, I think).

Moneybookers has a very strange notion of "customer service". It can take them 2 weeks to reply to an email.

If you really can't use PayPal, I wish you well with AlertPay, whom I've always found very good, myself.

tremayne

That's too bad, Jeff. Thanks for the heads up. One less for me to check.

Sydney

tremayne

Thanks for this. I will cross them off my list.

Sydney

tremayne

Thanks Steve. I'll take a look.

Sydney

tremayne

With fees so high they sound as if they work with a lot of porn sites. I'm not interested in that type of association, and you're right: the fees are way too high.

Sydney

dmarze

2CO is good alternative. People with paypal account can pay you for your products using their paypal account.


D.Marze

tremayne

I don't sell porn but I also don't want to be associated with a company that has anything to do with it. I'm not particularly prudish, but a legitimate business can get tainted that way and reputation is too valuable.

They are deleted from my list. Thanks for the info.

Sydney

rsantiago

Hello, Syd!

Nice to meet you
If you are doing launches, you have to worry about the REALLY BIG PAY DAY.

Most of the merchants don't get launches. They just shut down the merchant account thinking it's a scam or something like that.

But then there's powerpay.biz - which is recommended by Jeff Walker in the Product Launch Manager coaching program I'm going through.

PowerPay staff is really comprehensive. They are all into IM business. So, when you plan your powerful launch day, you just communicate with them, send some information they need (not many stuff, actually), and then you can make your BIG JV launch with NO WORRIES.

I sincerely hope it helps you big time - Google Checkout and Paypal are good, but not so suitable for serious IM ;-)

Best,
Rodrigo.

tremayne

Hi Samantha!

I agree that PayPal is excellent for small amounts of business or, perhaps, if your business grows in a predictable way.

But there's a good chance my launch will bring an unusual tidal wave of income and it's almost a foregone conclusion that PP would freeze the account. That would be a disaster for a continuity program that needs to pay affiliate commissions.

Besides all that, the only way I could get U.S dolars eventually into my account in Panama using PP would cost me about 14% including two lots of bank fees on double currency exchange. Doesn't make business sense.

I have been looking at AlertPay and they are quite interesting. They pay by check in U.S dollars. My bank here would take 30 days to clear the checks, but I think that is normal for many countries with regard to overseas checks. AP is a good possibility.

A scam site scared me for a while but I was impressed by the responses given by the president and service people. They seemed reasonable while many of the accusers appeared to be hotheads.

I need to find out what hoops, if any, AP puts customers through (do they need to have an AP account, for instance?) and what type of links go on the site. Also, after a somewhat scrambled startup are they readily accepted now by the market?

All the best,

Sydney

tremayne

Thanks for this. Reliability is far more important than fees. AlertPay is on my short list; the others are not although I will look into MoneyBookers.

Sydney

crecemedia

I think 10's of thousands of orders calls for a merchant account. ie. Process credit cards on your own server, directing them to you bank account.

tremayne

Hi Milan!

Quirks bother me and I would hate for X number of customers to be bothered by robotic phone calls. The fact that they don't fight charge-backs is good, in mho; if someone wants their money back for any reason they should get it without a fuss. Even so, I think I have better alternatives to look at.

Take care,

Sydney

Hello Alexa!

Thanks for the comments on Liberty Reserve. Fortunately, they were never on my list.

MoneyBookers was a maybe, but your comments about service rules them out.

I like what I have seen so far about AlertPay and now that they are over their teething problems they are a strong possibility. For brand recognition, so is Amazon but I still have to look into their terms. I already use their s3 servers for product delivery.

All the best,

Sydney

Does 2CO pay directly or is payment made via PayPal. If it is the latter, they are a non-starter for me as I have already explained earlier.

Thanks,

Sydney

Thanks Mohamed!

2CO is on my list to check as many people have recommended them. I'm not sure I want tens of thousands of dollars monthly going through a debit card though. Can you imagine the difficulty of withdrawing the maximum $500 daily that way through an ATM?!!

Of those I have checked so far, I like the idea of AlertPay issuing checks in U.S dollars even though they will take 30 days to clear my bank in Panama.

All the best,

Sydney

Hello Rodrigo!

Nice to meet you too!

Yours is an interesting post. I had not heard of PowerPay but like most of us I have high regard for Jeff Walker.

The company in the U.S managing the launch for me will likely be very familiar with them so I will certainly check them out. A company that understands what marketers need as well as what consumers need is a valuable commodity. Now I have to see if they work with my banking requirements.

As you know, I fully agree with you about PayPal. And Google, I understand, only deals with marketers in the U.S and UK. That rules them out, too.

All the best,

Sydney

I *hope* it's tens of thousands of orders! But I actually said tens of thousands of *dollars*.

Apart from that, I think you are right. Do you have a particular recommendation?

The plan, given that nothing is guaranteed in this world until money is in the bank, is to do the launch with a payment processor to see how it goes and then to switch quickly to a merchant account. That will be far more efficient and less costly.

As you know, CPA/continuity offers tend to start reasonably slowly and to build from there if they are any good.

I appreciate your advice; I think we're on the same page.

Sydney

For the many who recommended Moneybookers, the following from their site is a bit unsettling for thousands of purchases:

"The customers will need to instruct the transfer themselves on the Moneybookers system and you will need to process the transaction manually."

It's also unclear to me whether MB is operating as a processor or offering merchant accounts - or both.

Comments? Clarification?

Sydney

milan

Hi Sydney,
You've misunderstood me. They bother the first 3 customers with robotic calls, and then only the suspicious orders. For example, somebody from Nigeria buying with a US credit card etc. At times I don't agree with their definition of 'suspicious', but in general it's hardly wrong that have a protection system. Your customers can always dial their toll free number and tell there's nothing wrong with their order. Takes 10 seconds. I know, not exactly what 'ordering online' was meant to be, but they have a reason to raise their security shield.

EVERY payment solution has good and bad sides.

So far I've used:
ShareIt.com - use them still, since 2004. Your customers can pay by Paypal, credit cards etc. etc.

Paypal

Plimus

2checkout - Once I tried to email them it seemed their customer support are not human beings...

Clickbank

(I didn't consider Fastspring because their fees seem very high)

I did talk about the bad sides of Plimus but I still did say you check Plimus as a possibility. I've done $26,000 in 24 hours with them. There was an auto message that they will hold the funds, but you could email them for manual investigation. After one email they understood the concept of email promotion and decided to keep only the funds to cover the typical refund rate. They also deal with your affiliate program for you.

You can register an LLC in US, and get yourself a US Business Paypal
and keep your funds in US $.

Finally, it seems merchant account is the closest to "I keep my own money". That's my next step.

Yoshi1

It's too bad that Google checkout is only available in the US and Uk. Does anyone know when it will be available in Europe? I would like to have an alternative for PayPal as well.

JeffLam

No problem Syd.

Currently I am checking out powerpay.biz.

I have high regards for Jeff Walker, and if he recommends powerpay.biz for the Big Pay Days, then definitely it can't go wrong.

I'm sure Jeff Walker's paydays are really huge.

Will feedback on powerpay.biz.

JeffLam

Ah, scrap that. Looks like powerpay is also only for the US. I am unable to contact them with my choice of country.

tremayne

Hello Ishan!

They are on my short list! Thank you! Lots of people seem to like them.

Sydney

tremayne

Hi Milan!

First of all, let me thank you for me and for everyone else following this thread for the tremendous amount of information you have been supplying.

I am interested today particularly in your comment about an LLC and a U.S business account with PayPal (not that I want to risk their almost-certain freeze on the expected 5 to 6 figures a month).

But, regarding PayPal and because my questions may help others, will U.S PayPal not need a residential address, bank account and possibly credit card? I already have PayPal for Canada and for Panama but I have addresses in both countries, bank accounts in both and a credit card in one and so can answer all their sign-up questions.

Next question: what is involved in a foreigner setting up a U.S LLC? A lawyer? Cost? Tax and sales tax implications when ownership is outside the U.S? One of the (many) purposes behind living among the palm trees in Panama (actually, I'm in the stunning mountain region near the Costa Rica border) is that I pay no tax on income generated outside this country.

Finally, regarding merchant accounts: I fully agree. I suspect I will use a processor account for just the first week or two after launch and then switch to a merchant account. I should know in the initial days whether we will exceed 80 orders a month (I'm betting the previous five years of my life on it!). I understand 80 is the magic number for which route - processor account or merchant account - is the most cost effective.

Processors, some at least, can be useful in giving affiliates assurance they will be paid but I will be working with some of the biggest CPA networks who look after that and much more.

You know, this whole debate has been fascinating. I'm a writer, speaker and stock market specialist. This thread, which I have found extremely valuable, has taken me into a whole new world of business. I have never pretended to be anything other than what I am and I am surrounding myself with experts in other disciplines to make up for my shortcomings. But I *do* understand it is my job to look after at least three things: the money, delivering the best products I can, and ethics.

Take care,

Sydney

tremayne

Hi Yoshi!

Have you checked to see if Amazon Payments is available in the Netherlands? That, like Google, is another big and recognized name.

One I am coming to like more and more is AlertPay, recommended by many in this thread. They seem to have had a somewhat rocky beginning but that is well past them. They pay by check in U.S dollars anywhere in the world.

Good luck!

Sydney

tremayne

Hi Jeff!

Because of Jeff Walker, they are still on my short list...but if they won't deal with people from Singapore they almost certainly will not deal with people in Panama and that would eliminate them for me too. I have sent their service people an email and will let everyone know the result of that.

Depending on how Milan (above) answers my questions and whether your business in large enough, you might consider a U.S LLC (limited liability company) which would presumably provide a U.S address even if only a mail forwarder. Then you would not be restricted by geography as I currently am.

My short list is getting smaller all the time. Frankly, processors scare the sh*t out of me! PalPal and others are fine for small amounts but I don't want an intermediary to control my business, as all of them can.

AlertPay has been high on my list but I am concerned by the apparent teething pains it still has four years after its launch.

I think I'm down to Jeff's recommendation and Amazon (since Google is no good for me). Maybe the other two aren't either, in which case my decision will be made for me.

Sydney

tremayne

Hi Bigmoney!

What started with a simple question certainly has been insightful for me - and I hope it has been for many others.

There's still more to come as I continue my investigation. I have a reasonable idea now of where I'm headed, thanks in large part to so many on this forum, but I want to tie up a few loose ends before I comment on that. If I comment too early in the process it risks a change that would confuse everyone else.

By the time I finish I expect to have all the ducks in a row - at least for me but not necessarily for anyone else. Most people are not in my situation: in a country to which at least some processors will not send money. I and others like me have more hoops to jump through than people living in the U.S and in a few other countries.

The other difference for many is the amount of monthly income this project is expected to bring. (Whether it really will has to wait for a nail-biting period until January and until the money is in the bank! Counting chickens is for people who keep chickens!)

I have dealt with small amounts of money so far in the almost five years I have worked on this project (don't you just love these "instant successes"?) and PayPal has been fine for that. That was before I had to be too worried about taxes, exchange rates and account freezings.

Personally, I think that for small amounts PayPal may be the best choice; it is widely used and some of the lesser-known processors may not attract as many sales. But that's another story. For me, the way they want to handle money makes them w-a-a-a-y too expensive (14% given a double currency exchange) and too risky.

By the way, Amazon has bitten the dust as far as I am concerned. Too complicated for customers who do not already have Amazon accounts and too restrictive for merchants in terms of how much money can be processed until certain hoops (though straightforward) have been jumped through. If I remember correctly, their initial limit is $10,000. I dare not risk a number that low. I never did get as far as checking whether they would do business with me in Panama.

The initial CPA should bring in multiple times that much, if predictions by the marketing people are correct, although they will initially settle back from that figure when the continuity part of the program begins at a considerably lower price in the second month.

You may have a clue from all this of the direction in which I am leaning, but I need to talk to lots of people in the U.S before I can be sure and before I know what obstacles there are.

I'll keep you posted. Have patience!

Sydney