russell brunson's micro continuity?

14 years ago

If his site fell into MC/Visa cross hairs or if maybe he felt that his site would be one of them then he may be in the process of trying to conform.

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katie9143 14 years ago

that is my assumption....just wondered if anyone had the scoop on what he was doing? we were in the midst of pushing the product hard and now I'm wondering if we should bail or put on hold. kwim?
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deckman

14 years ago

I really dont know anything about this product but thought that I could give a little unbiased help.
Thats a decision you'll have to make on your own but if was me personally I think to just put it on hold would be wise.

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jamawebinc 14 years ago

Russell held a 20 - 30 minute live call for people on his list where he covered the whole topic of the new changes coming from visa and mastercard - and also covered exactly how he is going to re-structure his offers for microcontinuity.

Actually, he was one of only 2 internet marketers I know of to cover this in good detail, much less at all.

Now, as far as getting only the first 10 mins, he did postpone the "webinar" about 10 mins thru because he had a call from a merchant account provider of his, but he did return about 5 mins later.

Okay, so to sum up what was said. He stated that he is simply remodeling the offers on his microcontinuity sites. Essentially he is going to restructure the offer this way:

Instead of the original structure of the offer being this: Get my CD-ROM FREE just pay s/h and as a bonus you will get a X Day free trial to my fixed membership program -

- he is simply going to re-structure the offer.-

It will now be this: purchase my membership program for $XX per month for X months and get this "Other Product" free as a bonus just for signing up for the program.

The main thing merchant accounts are concerned about are free plus s/h offers and free trials to continuity programs.

He said, they don't mind continuity as long as it is very transparent. The big thing is the Free plus s/h offers.

He is being very careful at first and not going with something like a $1 7 day trial and then $40 per month after your trial ends.

He is going straight to selling the $40 per month membership and adding in the cd-rom as a Free bonus. The big thing was people not realizing they were going to be charged, and how much and that it was recurring - thus it was creating many chargebacks for anyone who had offers like this, including him.

So to be safe he is just going with the actual monthly charge right from the start so the customer can know exactly what and when they will be charged.

So the same things are being sold, just with a restructured offer.
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- Lance K 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by jamawebinc
  
  He said, they don't mind continuity as long as it is very transparent.
  
  Decent human beings with a lick of business sense don't need to be told that.
  
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  katie9143 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Lance K
  
  Decent human beings with a lick of business sense don't need to be told that.
  
  Also tho, newbies to affiliate marketing and online marketing in general who hear hyped up stories from some guru - they trust that what this person is doing is good and legal because somehow their fame gives them a false sense of authority and virtuosity. That is definitely the case with several people I know and have worked with. Often these packages allow people to market something without really understanding how it works and how it comes across to the consumer, unfortunately.
  
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  jamawebinc 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Lance K
  
  Decent human beings with a lick of business sense don't need to be told that.
  
  It depends what you consider very transparent.
  
  On the webinar, he said that when he was giving away the free mp3 player he received many chargebacks on the coaching continuity program that went along with it.
  
  Personally, I can't see how anyone could not understand that they were also purchasing a continuity program. I read the information and watched the video about the offer and I thought it was spelled out clearly.
  
  But, apparently either some other people didn't think so or they just made a chargeback anyway.
  
  To be safe, until things settle and get more definite, he isn't even going to be doing $1 trial offers to a continuity program and then charge the regular price after the $1 trial period ends. He is just going to go straight into the regular price.
  
  Whether is right or wrong, doesn't matter. If those are the standards that visa/mc wants to have, that's what will happen.
  
  A large company that uses the free plus s/h offer is video professor.
  
  So far they have not changed their model and still offer free plus s/h.
  
  I would not doubt that either they do not get very many chargebacks or have worked out something with visa / mc where they will be unaffected by this change in the rule.
  
  It would be interesting to see if this rule effects certain markets. I would not doubt that certain markets receive higher chargebacks than other ones.
  
  For instance, "Learning computer software" doesn't carry the same stigma that "make more money", "get more dates", and "lose weight" products do.
  
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  dsiomtw 14 years ago
  
  I can tell you for a fact that Video Professor does get a lot of refunds and chargebacks.
  
  With that said, watching what they do going forward will be telling ...
  
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  ILUVCA$H 14 years ago
  
  I think the continuity space will restructure and be back in some fashion.
  
  Right now I have the VIDEO PROFESSOR offer mentioned in this thread for $61 for Warrior Forum Members. I am also giving away a free FLIP video camera for top affiliates for the next two months.
  
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BillSquatty

14 years ago

Just go here for the recording...

w w w . ustream.tv/recorded/4075075

Enjoy.

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katie9143 14 years ago

I did end up finding the full webinar and watched it. What I didn't get from it is what is happening to his micro continuity program. With this program, you choose a niche, say chiropractors for example - then you log into your account and change your own niche page to chiropractors, it then pulls a page that is taylored to your name and this niche....ex: Joe Smith's Internet Marketing for Chiropractors. Right now our niche page url goes to some totally random product page, its not even one of Russell's products (some other guy's name?)

Maybe I will go and see if the link that someone posted above is a different webinar than the one I watched earlier. Thanks for the help
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dsiomtw

14 years ago

I don't get why legit marketers are freaking out about this, and changing their entire business models. The FTC only cares about people with deceptive offers who don't clearly disclose the terms, make it hard or impossible to cancel, etc.

The way you've described Brunson's new strategy isn't going to convert nearly as well or generate nearly as much revenue. That's the whole point of the free trial offers...

Last I checked ClickBank still allows merchants to run "free trial" continuity offers through their system. Worst case scenario you can just run your micro continuity offers through clickbank if you wanted to??

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

I don't get why legit marketers are freaking out about this, and changing their entire business models. The FTC only cares about people with deceptive offers who don't clearly disclose the terms, make it hard or impossible to cancel, etc.

Totally agree. If you state your continuity terms clearly and you make cancellations easy to be processed, I dont see why there would be any problem at all.

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katie9143 14 years ago

That actually wasn't my question. I personally agree with the new rules. I was merely wondering about the product that my client purchased from Russell - the instant continuity. Just thought perhaps others might have heard what his plan is for this specific pruduct. That's all. This client is just getting started with affiliate marketing and bought this program because it was supposed to be easy and all-in-one. I don't think I would have chosen it personally - I am just trying to help him find some answers.

eta: sorry, i meant to quote the comment made by dsiomtw
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Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

I don't get why legit marketers are freaking out about this, and changing their entire business models. The FTC only cares about people with deceptive offers who don't clearly disclose the terms, make it hard or impossible to cancel, etc.

The way you've described Brunson's new strategy isn't going to convert nearly as well or generate nearly as much revenue. That's the whole point of the free trial offers...

Last I checked ClickBank still allows merchants to run "free trial" continuity offers through their system. Worst case scenario you can just run your micro continuity offers through clickbank if you wanted to??

Because you are wrong. They are going after everyone who falls within a certain type of transaction.

For those that haven't been "caught", they may well in the near future.

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skullzzz

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

Last I checked ClickBank still allows merchants to run "free trial" continuity offers through their system. Worst case scenario you can just run your micro continuity offers through clickbank if you wanted to??

ClickBank doesn't now, nor have they ever, run "free trials" for continuity products. On a recurring billing product, the least amount that can be charged upfront is $4.95. A vendor can call this a "trial" and set the next charge to hit at anywhere from 7 to 30 days later. This isn't a *free offer, though.

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Steve Peters Benn

14 years ago

I think there is a certain amount of legitamacy regarding the concern of this issue. However, it is also getting blown way out of proportion - and rather than being a threat to a lot of people - it is getting them whipped up into a frenzy. It honestly wouldn't be a shock to see a product specifically created to address this issue (beyond Russell's actually helpful webinar).

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Johnny Slater

14 years ago

Steve Odette has a script dedicated to MC style sites currently in the works. It is being built from the ground up with MC process flow in mind and should make some big waves when it's ready to go.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am the programmer for Steve so I am a bit biased about the product, but I will have no stake in it and am in no way self advertising. However, Steve has been very interested in the problems of the MC model and finding ways to make it flow properly and work with no major issues.

Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn

I think there is a certain amount of legitamacy regarding the concern of this issue. However, it is also getting blown way out of proportion - and rather than being a threat to a lot of people - it is getting them whipped up into a frenzy. It honestly wouldn't be a shock to see a product specifically created to address this issue (beyond Russell's actually helpful webinar).

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Rick Johansson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by katie9143

Anyone use this program? One of my clients does and since the whole crack down on forced continuity, the niche site that we usually promote is pretty much gone. I just watched a re-run of one of Russell's webinars from today and for some reason can only get the first 10 mins and he doesn't really answer any questions about what everyone that bought his micro continuity package should do. The redirected site is a completely different product that has very little to do with what we originally had been promoting. Seems like Russell really dropped the ball. This isn't really my thing, but I was asked to figure it out and so far I am stumped.

If anyone can lend some insight that would be greatly appreciated!

tia

Why not ask Russell directly...his customer support website is DotComSecrets - Powered By Kayako eSupport.

Rick

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katie9143 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick Johansson

Why not ask Russell directly...his customer support website is DotComSecrets - Powered By Kayako eSupport.

Rick

Ya...I actually have a couple support tickets open, the first one was from last friday when our instant continuity site was completely down and then a second from Monday after I had trouble viewing the entire webinar and I had heard the whole buzz and so forth. So far nothing back from them.
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garyt

14 years ago

The charge backs already tell a story. Personally I think you should not be charged for anything that is free

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

Quite frankly, in my experience most chargebacks don't come from unscrupulous sellers who hide the continuity terms & conditions. It comes from unscrupulous buyers who knew VERY WELL what they were getting into and they simply exploit the system to get the stuff for free. Pretty much like Clickbank serial refunders who know they can get any product for free by simply emailing clickbank for a refund.

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jamawebinc 14 years ago

A few updates:

Supposedly mastercard and visa will not allow any more free plus s/h offers.

However, perhaps the biggest implementor of the model, Video professor, still uses it on their website.

Obviously they are not hard to find if there is really an overall crackdown coming.

Also, the person who is featured in the microcontinuity free report still has free cd-rom plus s/h offer.

I would think if there was a serious change in policy that applied to everyone, most everyone would have taken down their free plus s/h offers.

My first thought is that it applies only to certain markets, but that is just a guess.
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Slim Shady

14 years ago

I read all the comments. I have a Micro Continuity Program also under Russell Brunson and I kinda agree with the Anonymous Affiliate that if the Sellers outright let customers know about their terms and conditions and the customers can get a refund, I see no problem with it. But their will always be complainers and whiners that think differently. I agree there will always people on Clickbank who want a refund, because Clickbank always Refunds Your Money. They have a very good track record of that.

Nobody brought up Paypal, you can use Free Trails on there also. Give That A Try. Learning Computer Software is a very good niche. Video Professor has been around a long time and they probably have quite of few chargebacks and refunds also.

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Rob Howard

14 years ago

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ozduc

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

I know this is primarily about the forced continuity...but let me say this:

You can easily DROP the continuity on the front end entirely.

Here is what i would do:

1. Get them in the door with the Free + Shipping.

2. After they check out with that, offer them an UPSELL for the Free 1 week/month/whatever continuity, explaining exactly what it is. (that it's a trial and they will be charged)

I know, this goes slightly against his model, because he suggests doing this two things at the same time and THEN upselling a home study course or something.

But, I've found that people don't manage 2 or more things at the same time well. If you say "You are getting F+S AND a free trial to my coaching program", people will virtually ignore the coaching program because all they care about is the F+S.

Finally, by separating the two, you focus on selling each one, and since they just "purchased" a CD/DVD from you, they are more likely to take the free trial. (that whole commitment/consistency thing)

Rob

You make a very good point Rob. I think most people dont even realize they have just signed up for the free trial + forced continuity but if you present it to them in another step as an up sell you are more likely to get more retention.

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cup4sharks

14 years ago

Rob (ccmusicman),

I really appreciate your posts above. I just have a question for you about how you implement what Russell suggests as a bigger upsell like a physical product option to go with the mirco continuity program the buyer has just purchased. When and where would you insert that in your model?

Thank you!

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Rob Howard 14 years ago

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- cup4sharks 14 years ago
  
  Thank you, Rob for your generosity of info!
  
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Zero

14 years ago

All of Russell Brunson's products are down at the moment, because they are changing the offers so that they are FTC compliant. I know this because I asked, and that is the response i got.

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cup4sharks

14 years ago

Once they change the model, do you think they will replace his course on his Continuity Model which is base on non FTC compliant methods for free to those who bought it?

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Zero 14 years ago

In what way is micro-continuity not ftc compliant?
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Hortensia

14 years ago

On his blog, Mike Hill showed a very long email that he received from his merchantaccount, telling how to structure the offer that is acceptable for them.

An example of an acceptable disclosure is: "By clicking "Submit" you acknowledge that you understand you are being enrolled in a 10 day trial for $4.95, and after expiration of the 10 day trial period you will be charged $59 per month until you cancel your service".

Of course $59 is just an example, but the 10 day trial is not. Apparently they really want 10 days and not 7.

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russell brunson's micro continuity?

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