Raindance

I'm trying to get a free auto-responder and listwire is the one which everyone seems to be suggesting. I have made an account on listwire but have not started using the service yet. The question I have is do the emails from listwire reach inbox or not? After signing up for it, I've been receiving emails from the founder, Gary Ambrose, promoting a few products and all those mails don't reach my inbox. I use Yahoo and all his messages have been going in spam. Can listwire users share their experience so far?

Gren Bingham

Hi Raindance,

Gary Ambrose is the owner of the third highest rated autoresponder, EmailAces. He knows how to get delivery. At one point you could get a limited account free on EmailAces.

The only reason I use the big 3 is to get delivery. However, if you want to take a flier, you can get ListmailPro free and install it on your own site. This is free, and should get deliveries if you look out for the wording of your emails, and if your IP is not in a blacklist. It is a good autoresponder.

Best regards,

Shaun OReilly

Where did you pull this statistic from?

EmailAces are nowhere near the third highest rated
autoresponder on any scale that I know of.

Dedicated to mutual success,

Shaun

Alexa Smith

He can't get his own emails into your inbox, and you still want to know more?

For me, quite apart from the deliverability problems (which I agree are obviously a significant issue), the Big Important Things would relate to:-

(a) whether I want to entrust the custody and security of my business's greatest asset to a third-party service which is free and doesn't have a long history;

(b) whether I want to send out emails all of which include a clickable link which allow my customers to see that I'm using a free service (not exactly the height of professionalism, perhaps, to put it mildly?).

Gary_The_Ace

Hey All,

First things first... the overwhelming majority of people here have absolutely no clue how email deliverability works. And when I say "no clue", that's being generous...

An identical email can go into the spam folder, the inbox folder, and can end up not being delivered at all... even if the message is the same content-wise, the recipient ISP is the same, and they're being sent as close to the same time as possible.

Now to hear some people say, "If his isn't going to the inbox, then why would you use that service"... the same can be said of ANY service, including GetResponse, Aweber, MailChimp, iContact, InfusionSoft, and so on, and so on, and so on...

EVERY single autoresponder service on the Internet today has the ability to land your message in the bulk/junk folder... and the amount of money you spend on your autoresponder service has no bearing on that statistic. The biggest single factor in placement of your message is content... and, that's entirely in YOUR control as the sender.

Individual inboxes have message rules that are specific to that one recipient, and a single action from that recipient can play more of a role in future inbox/bulk/non delivery placement than any other single factor... but, that all depends on the receiving ISP. This isn't the case for all ISP's... so for example, Yahoo plays by different rules than AOL, than MSN/Live, and so on...

It seems that in every List Wire thread, we see Shaun, and Alexa pop up... I'm not sure why, but they both chime in with something negative to say even though, to the best of my knowledge, neither of them is using our service.

To Shaun... I have no idea where that first post came in referring to Email Aces. We haven't actively promoted that service in more than 3 years, and I don't even mention it in my own products. We're phasing that service out, but at one time, it was one of the better services on the market... maybe the OP was referring to a post from 2004? Who knows?

That said, why do you have to jump in, and say something negative in every thread about List Wire? At this point, others have mentioned it to me ... and it's starting to look like it's personal. (no, I'm not kidding, but honestly, I can't figure out why)

Now on to Alexa... do you use YouTube? WordPress? Flickr? FaceBook? or Google's Organic listings as a part of your marketing? How about EzineArticles? If you do, you are using free services to build your business whether you like it, or not... shame on you for using something free. (sarcasm)

I also find it funny that when I click the link in your signature, it takes me to a page with a banner on it that reads... "includes free hosting". Free hosting? Really? You're going to say that using a free service is a negative when, you yourself, are recommending free hosting?

Pot, meet Kettle. (DOH!)

As for not having a long history with ListWire, Alexa, we've been over this... I've been in this market longer than just about anyone online (you included)... and, I'd be wiling to bet my house that I've been in this space, under my own name, for longer than 95% of the people on this board.

Should we start taking the advice of WF members based on the date they joined the forum? In that case, Alexa, no one should be listening to what you have to say if someone else jumps in, with a join date that's a few years earlier than your own...

Sounds silly, doesn't it? But that's basically what you're saying about our service. It's not old enough, so don't bother with it... so WF, let's base our opinions of everything on longevity now. Let's use AltaVista or Excite as our main search engine, B2 as the main blogging platform, and everyone... let's network on Friendster!

We've had List Wire open for almost a year now, and it was mentioned, specifically by name, in an interview I did back in December of 2005... that was while we were still in the planning phases before any coding had begun. We have history, and as pointed out above, using "history" as measure of success isn't a based on sound logic... so, you can stop using that as an excuse now.

Now to both Alexa, and Shaun... have either of you bothered to do any deliverability testing on List Wire? If you haven't, then neither of you have a leg to stand on, and should both stop making blind assumptions that are based on nothing more than hot air, and what again, seems like some personal something or other you have against me...

Our service was created to HELP the overwhelming number of people who can't afford to spend anything on an autoresponder service... and, although YOU may be in a great position to afford one yourselves, there are millions of people out there who can't... I've met them in person, I've read the emails they've sent into our help desks, and thousands of them are using our services right now.

Every day we get an email to our support system thanking us for making the service available, for helping them get their first subscriber, their first clicked link, and make their first sale online... stuff that NEVER would have happened for them if they were forced to pay for an autoresponder system.

In a perfect world, people would save up the money to pay for business expenses, and the profits they turn would be better re-invested into building the business... but, that's not reality. My country (the US) is notorious for not saving up for anything, and when the two options you have are to either pay the electric bill, or drop $20 into savings to pay for your autoresponder next month... no one is choosing the autoresponder.

You say, service X has a trial for only $1.00... um, that's a trial, not the actual price... and if you can't afford it when the service recurs at normal prices, the trial isn't going to do you a heck of a lot of good. People in debt, or who are living month to month tend to look at the ACTUAL cost of things, not just the cost for the first 30 days... strange, but true.

Or, service Y allows up to 500 subscribers for free... but... it's as long as you're not primarily an affiliate marketer, don't sell into one of the 50 niches they don't allow, and then, what happens when you reach 500 subscribers? Oh yeah... you can't afford the service and you're stuck with no list.

So look you two... and yes, I'm calling you two out, by name, specifically... the service may not be for you, and it may not be for 75% of the people on this forum, but I don't think either of you truly understand the potential consequences of what you're doing when your post so negatively about something you've never used...

When someone asks, and you tell them that, "Free isn't an option", you might as well be telling them...

"You have no options. Give up now."

Have you ever thought about it that way? That you've almost certainly prevented people from starting to build their first list? At this point those people still don't have a list, and they have no chance of making any money with a list because you told them not to use the best service that was available to them given their circumstances and budget...

So look, if you want to say... "We'd recommend a paid service first, but if that's not an option, use this free option to get moving"... How is that going to harm anyone?

The only result that can come of that is good as far as I can tell... that person is going to start building a list, and since that's why they're asking about autoresponders in the first place, that's a response that could actually lead the OP down a path that helps them start actually DOING SOMETHING!

If either if you want to talk to me about this via PM to clear up any personal matters, go ahead... I'm not hard to get a hold of.

-Gary Ambrose
Proud Owner Of List Wire

Oxbloom

I don't think Shaun said anything negative about you at all. In fact, the one comment he made, you agreed with. (That emailaces is not exactly a front-of-the-pack autoresponder in 2011.)

And I don't think Alexa said anything that isn't simple, good, common sense. These ARE questions you probably ought to ask yourself. She doesn't state explicitly that the answer to either one would reflect negatively upon your product. But I've got to admit, your defensiveness makes me wonder.

Something along the lines of, "Hey Alexa, those *are* important questions, and here's how we address them..." would have done a lot more for this prospective customer's interest level and ease of mind.

Mohammad Afaq

Do yourself a favor, and shell out a little bit of money for a professional service. Aweber is $19 per month for upto 250 subscribers.

Just skip a movie this month and pay for that.

I mean, it's a business and businesses have their costs. I myself, would never sacrifice quality over cost.

Gary_The_Ace

Said by a person who can clearly, already afford an autoresponder...

What would you say to the person who can't "just skip a movie" because they aren't going to any movies? The person who chooses to feed their children, before themselves, because there isn't enough food for everyone?

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to think about these kinds of things...

Before I met the people who told me this is the choice they face daily, I thought the same way you do. You have the choice to skip a movie, or skip a meal out, or to give up Starbucks, or give up whatever... millions of people don't have this choice.

Saying "just give up this, or that" isn't a solution... some people have NO money, and they can't give anything up to get it.

I'm guessing you didn't bother reading my post, or simply chose to ignore what I said?

-Gary

Gary_The_Ace

Reading the tone of a response obviously isn't your strong suit...

And as mentioned, this isn't a one time thing, this is based on seeing their responses in post, after post, after post about List Wire. I'm guessing you didn't bother reading my response either...

I always come back to the WF hoping that something has changed, and... I always leave disappointed.

-Gary Ambrose

Mohammad Afaq

Call me an idiot but I think if a person is backed against the wall so bad then I think they need to work on their priorities.

Instead of investing time and effort in a business venture (Yes Internet Marketing is a business), they need to make "getting a job" their #1 priority. Once they are strong enough to support themselves financially, then they should think about "improving" their income by looking online.

To be honest, being desperate doesn't change a thing. I don't care how desperate you are, it isn't possible for you to make money online in a short period of time when you don't even know the basics of running an IM business.

Paul Myers

Gary,Well, if you only look at threads that focus on one specific thing, or you look to see if the old negatives are still here, that's going to happen. You create your vision through your choice of filters.

Before you start to lecture me, I've seen rather a lot of this type of conversation. More than you have, I'd wager. And yes, Alexa and Shaun say the same things, quite often. They say them about any free service. Not just yours. And they ignore the same situations you addressed in your post.

Like all of us, their responses come from their perspectives.

Perhaps your view of the forum would change if you didn't take such a defensive stance when none is called for? Maybe if you'd started with something more like, "That may be solid advice for some situations. There are other circumstances in which free services can be the things people use to help bootstrap themselves out of a bad place."

Based on what I've observed, which is admittedly limited, I wouldn't take deliverability advice from Alexa. Shaun is noticeably more educated on the subject than most of the members here. Probably not as much so as you, but hardly clueless.

His only comment, by the way, was absolutely correct, and said nothing about Listwire at all. So the shot at him was uncalled for.

Relax, Gary. It makes things a whole lot more fun.


Paul

DanielleS

• If you want a free autoresponder, use mailchimp.
• Don't promote affiliate markets or IM products directly with it. Make sure any links you send through it take your subscribers to page on your own site and put the affiliate links in there.
• Export your list daily, and be prepared to pay for icontact when the time comes for it or when mailchimp gets it's panties in a wad about something and just closes your account , because icontact is the only ones who are going to let you 'import' your list without making your subscribers optin again.

Nick Sammut

go with Gary Ambrose's product, he is very honest and full of integrity

DanielleS

Moh,

The U.S. was founded and fought for by men who wanted to rise above the 'station' they were 'born' to. They started with NOTHING, and so have many, many, many others whose success stories continue to inspire new generations to do the same.

And some people truly don't have the 'ability' to get a job, (disabled, possibly waiting on disability, single mom with no child care... too many circumstances to list, but you get the point) or in this economy, could look all day for a job and still try to sell whatever, wherever (online, Craigslist, ebay) at night in the hopes that something will break them of their desperate situation. Jobs don't hold interviews at 9,10, 11 P.M. anyway.

I'm really disappointed to hear you say what you said Moh. I was a BROKE single mother when I started IM. The economy SUCKED and I relied on article writing to support my kids, and there was still nothing left over to pay for domain names, hosting fees, autoresponders, etc.

I used a free blog with free hosting (blogger), free auto responder (SendFree first, and then MailChimp) and a lot of free educational materials to get started. I monetized my first blog with Adsense, a few with niche resell rights products. I wrote articles all day to support my family, and built more blogs on the side.

The articles gave me the income I really needed to support my kids, and it wasn't until 4 months after I built the first blog that I finally broke the $100 Adsense payment threshold, and got a payment. But I wasn't making enough to commit to the autoresponder, or even hosting, for a very long time.

So I continued building my blogger blogs until I eventually was making enough, consistently to know that if I had one or two slow months, the profits from the months before would still cover the expenses, and then I committed to paid solutions.

People working on making money online at 10pm are completely undeserving of sanctimonious ramblings about how their priorities should be about getting a job.

-Dani

P.S. [Not directed at Moh] Alexa said she wouldn't trust her 'most valuable' asset, which is her list... the hosting of site is not 'entrusting the site' - you can back that up, the same way you can back up your email list with MailChimp, so you won't lose it.

If you reach 500 subscribers and still can't sell anything, you may not be skilled enough for email marketing yet.

When you start approaching that, if your list isn't clicking or buying, it might be time to study some copywriting guides, and start practicing writing copy. Whatever you do, don't hire a copywriter... there are too many other things you could have done wrong that copy won't fix, and then you still won't make any sales, and might not be able to pay your copywriter. They can write stories that break you, just as easily as they can write stories that make you.

Paleochora

Wrong, Dani. Imnica Mail do imports without second opt in and I think they are a much better price than icontact.

Back to the matter in hand. For a number of good reasons too lengthy to go into here, I have an account with a paid service and an account with a free service.

I have a paid autoresponder account with Imnica Mail which is relatively low cost compared with the more popular choices ($28 as compared to $130 for Aweber) and guess what? My mails get delivered, I get results, I have amazing tracking and analytics, I get great support in fact everything I would get if I were paying a hundred bucks a month more.

I also have lists on Listwire. And guess what? My mails get delivered, I get results, I have amazing tracking and analytics, I get great support in fact everything I would get if I were paying a hundred and thirty bucks a month more.

There is nothing wrong with being young and free providing the service offered is good enough and the management demonstrate that they are committed to grow and sustain the business. Also, the highest price option does not always represent the best value for money and does not always mean its the best service.

DanielleS

Paleochora,

I have only just recently heard of Imnica, and I didn't know you could import a list with them. I turned to icontact last fall when MailChimp decided they didn't like my business. But it's good to know there's another option too.

As far as ListWire, all I can say is, I wouldn't.

Mailchimp can be a bit of a pain with an interface that does take some getting used to, but they're not bad guys and I trust them.

-Dani

Raindance

Thank God. That's so good for me. Aweber and iContact do not accept paypal and that's one reason why I was not going for paid auto-responders. Off late, I could only find imnica mail accepting paypal and this feature makes it even more attractive for me.

Raindance

I got your message Dani but I can't PM due to low number of posts. PM me your email address.

Landis

Check out Imnica. They are great!

DanielleS

Raindance,
Sure. Sending now.

-Dani

elrascal

Amen to that!!!!! You just hit the nail on the head!

howdo-i

At last I have found something that I can disagree with Alexa on. Ever since she joined the forum I have found Alexa's posts to be informative and wise beyond her years and until now I have not been able to fault what she says.

I have been using Listwire for almost a year now. Not because I can't afford a paid service but because the niche that I'm using it for simply doesn't respond to email marketing. Not every niche does contrary to what many will tell you. I offer an autoresponder series to my visitors and a few take me up on it but to date there has been no income from that list. One day perhaps things will be different but for now, I am thankfull for Listwire for allowing me to provide a service that I would not be providing otherwise.

As far as deliverability goes I get email from all major services and they all have a tendancy towards the junk folder and at worst, Listwire is no worse than any of them.

Alexa, please don't take this the wrong way because I still think that you are amazing. Whenever I see an interesting thread I read the first post then immediately scan to see what you say before reading the remainder of the thread. I just happen to dissagree on this one point.

Gary, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to provide a service to my readers that I would not otherwise have been able to do.

Gary_The_Ace

Wow... just wow.

This is the kind of post I was referring to Paul.

-Gary

Richnana

Gary, I would not take the opinions of WF members as an indictment of your product. Perhaps this is a good way to get feedback on the product. The individuals who posted their personal or in some cases professional opinions do not seem to be vindictive, they are just voicing their preferences as a result of actually using the product or their opinion of other f*r*e*e* products that they used which were not
up to par.

Your product serves a need and you provide a way for many new marketes to at least start their business collecting names and getting that all important "list" Chill out and be content in the knowledge that you are providing a needed service.

Some of the best things in life really are F*R*E*E.

Jason Fladlien

I'm assuming listwire is aimed at a wider market than just "businesses". For example, when I was a broke musician trying to build an email list to notify people to come to my shows, I DID NOT have $20 a month the shell out on an autoresponder service.

There are many people who need an autoresponder service beyond JUST business purposes, where a paid option isn't necessary or even viable for them. In that case, services like listwire and mailchimp are a god send.

If people would spend far less time worrying about if one free service is better than another... and JUST USING one of them and start buliding a list with it ASAP... then we'd all be better off

cypherslock

I've tried Aweber. Imnica Mail is a MUCH better value in my opinion. And why someone would repeatedly say not to use ListWire, but then not give clear reasoning why not, makes me wonder. I tried ListWire. And it is a secondary option for me. I just didn't like the interface. But the mails went through alright. Free doesn't always mean crap.

John Dell

I gone through this entire conversation; I am one of them who can't afford $19 every month for one particular service to start my IM career. But, I know how important it is to have a list and I got myself cleared to go for aweber or getresponse, even though, I need to invest beyond my capability.

I'll try this service for 3 months and see if I can get back what I had invested for this service. If not, I'll opt for an alternative.

Experience IMs may kindly advise if I should use Aweber or Getresponse..

Well, Gary, I still receive your mails through emailaces;

Quenta

I tried Aweber once but I opt out because I really can't afford to pay $19 a month for limited subscribers? Listwire on the other hand...we'll interface is not good but sending quality e-mails is what I really care.

Thank God Listwire is here. Hope you guys stay long or even forever!

jasondinner

I get Gary's emails in my inbox.

I also get aweber, icontact, and 1 shopping cart emails (just to name a few) from
well known and reputable marketers in my spam folder.

In my experience with 3rd party autoresponders, the delivery has depended
on a few factors with content being a biggest as well as the reputation of the
"from" domain name being a close second.

And I have to second Gary's comments on the issue of free being the only option for a lot of people. It's true.

People are hurting.

Just the cost of filling up our gas tanks has gone up over $20 in the last year alone, so there goes most peoples budget for a paid service. And most working people have to fill up their tank at least once a week and that's not even talking about people who commute in bumper to bumper traffic from suburbs to main cities (like Long Island to Manhattan). So we're talking at least $80 more per month in gas expenses. In many cases double or triple.

That can cut into a lot of available discretionary money that may have been set aside
for normal internet business operating expenses such as hosting, an autoresponder service,
new domains, expiring domains, etc.

And rising gas costs is only one example. There's also the rising cost of food, groceries, and just about EVERYTHING else as a result of the higher cost of goods sold that this gas price inflation has caused.

Not everyone is in a position to pay for anything other than the bare necessities - if they're lucky.

And as Jason Fladlien mentioned, not everyone is using an autoresponder for financial gain. They could be aspiring musicians, someone running a charity to help people in need, or your local Church. If ListWire's deliverability is comparable to other paid options, why shouldn't these people use it?

- Jason

Viramara

Gary's Right. Affaq, I came from third country and Aweber costs my half monthly bills. You may have had a job or something to cover your expense, but I'm a student and my parents still pay my expense (I'll be blunt and not ashamed to admit this). I do freelance here and there but simply not enough. I already look for local autoresponder and they're not really reliable or helpful either. People's economic circumstances are different and you can't plainly assume they all can afford an AR just by skipping movies or fast food. I mean come on, (sorry no offend intended) Affaq, you don't walk in their shoes so how can you find out? Even if I already have a list and making sales, I don't know if it's enough to cover the expense or break even, and what about the minimum payout? My budget is extremely tight right now but I'll NEVER, EVER make my lacking thereof as a reason to whine or back off. Only because I have minimum cash, there is NO back off.

I think I'm gonna try Listwire. I don't mind if Gary floods my inbox twice a day in exchange It worths it and I understand that's what he does to cover the AR expense and keeping the great service.