Nicole G

Hey everyone.

I liked Eben's ads early on. He seemed honest and experienced, and I bought his earliest IM products. While some of it was enjoyable on some level, none of it really contained the information I thought it would.

Altitude was my first purchase. It was emotionally touching, but didn't have much "meat" to it. There wasn't a lot of actionable material. It was more like going to "business church", in a way. Nice, but...

I then bought some of the first "guru" type products... and they didn't contain what he seemed to be advertising, either. To top it off, at one of the guru seminars I joined his very expensive mastermind for a short time and he talked about things like the health value of blueberries. As a partial raw foodist myself, there was nothing new here!

Basically, when Eben did that first Altitude "free line" video about Coca-Cola, I expected to see lots of THAT type of core content in these products. 10 to 20 hours of that type of stuff, like a really great professor of marketing lecturing for hours Freakonomics style, but it just wasn't there. Nor was it there in his later courses. If I'm really honest with myself (which is tough after paying so much money), I suspect pound for pound the free content was better than the paid.

I especially thought he'd use Double Your Dating as a continual example through all the course material, like a magician revealing his tricks, but he didn't. That's the part that really weirded me out.

While he used Double Your Dating (DYD) in his (admittedly great!) ads to build credibility for sales, inside the actual courses, he almost acted like he never did DYD at all. He almost completely used other people's websites and businesses as examples. Over time, I started to suspect he didn't want you to know or master the key things that really made his own business so successful. (like the interview series)

Instead, all the early material seemed to teach you what any course would. To use 1shoppingcart, aweber, all that jazz. Things he never himself used, and things I could much more easily learn anywhere. There's actually better info in the WSOs here.

Honestly, even when they're the nicest people in the world, I can't stand advice from people to use things they don't themselves use. If I'm paying big money, I want to learn *exactly* what other did to become successful. I want to take the same medicine the doctor takes, in the same way the doctor takes it.

I'd honestly love to learn about all the inner working of Eben's real business, Double Your Dating, which is why I think I kept buying his IM products. I wanted a real inside look at a truly successful, non-IM business like that. I wanted to know what the funky little shopping cart he used was, and why it had as many steps as it did. I really wanted how he got people for the interviews for his interview series, especially the first ones when he didn't have name awareness or brand equity. As DYD made over $20M a year, yet I had never seen ad for it myself, I really wanted to know WHERE he was advertising such a thing. CPA networks, magazines, what? I wanted to learn all that sort of stuff that made such an enormously successful info sales project tick.

Fast forward a few years, and I see Eben has lots more IM products, with a new one launching immediately. A quick search here shows that the "vibe" around his name seems to be good. Lots of people seem to be positive about him, and recommend him highly. I figure that his quality must have improved dramatically, either that or people are simply deluded because Eben seems like such a nice guy.

So right or wrong, I'm thinking about giving him another shot with his new new Guru Masterclass.

What do you guys think? Worth it? Does he actually reveal his own tricks and techniques uses in DYD these days? Does he actually get into what made him and DYD successful, from the early days to present, or is it just more general business training?

MemberWing

All his tricks are free for grabs.
Sign up for his list (which you already in) and carefully read his persuasion texts and frequency and emotional hype approach to convince you to buy.
Signup up for his affiliate program where he announces leaderboard - affiliates who sending him top sales. Grab 5 names off top of this list, google them and signup for their lists as well. Carefully observe them as well.
Observe what they do on their sites, what they sell, how much they charge.
Gurus "reveal" their secrets only after they squeezed all the juice from their techniques.
Doing a little web investigating work - you can discover majority of their tricks for free. And it's fun and it could give you real competitive advantage.

Gleb

Christophe Young

I can relate to what you are saying about Eben. I followed a lot of his DYD stuff and those products really are top notch and his newsletter is a great example of how to give out free content.

Yes, his Altitude course seemed to be a lot of interviews with guys I really didn't care about and I was waiting to hear more about how he grew his actual business. He never revealed much there. He's a great salesmen, no doubt, and you can learn a lot about internet marketing just from his latest sales videos.

I did get a free sample of his Guru coaching videos and most of them are done by someone else. I thought those were better for newbies.

As mentioned above, you can learn a lot just by observing how he sells, probably more than what you would learn in his actual IM courses.

DavidG

Did you end up getting in it?

regZ

Chris Sorrell

Eben has said it himself that he's made millions by selling products to 'normal people with normal problems.' That's all there is to it. And yes, he's a brilliant salesman and clearly works hard at the right things but there's nothing that fancy or mind boggling about what he does. But that's why he's grossed over $100m online.

xxxJamesxxx

That is so truth, and it doesn't just apply to Ebon but everyone who's marketing online.

Simply join their newsletter and watch how they market... You will learn tons and it won't cost you a cent either.

James Scholes

Nicole G

These are all *really* great tips to analyze a currently operating business. Thank you.

The thing is, I really wanted to know more about the start of his "real" business -- Double Your Dating, not his IM business.

I'd love to know how he got his initial guests for the interview series, how and where he advertised, etc. Things you can't easily tell from list spying. Also, there weren't many other "gurus" or anything in those niches back then. DYD really wasn't built like a modern day IM business with "syndicates" and all that, yet it apparently did very well -- reaching sales of $20m +. I'd love to know how be built the business without those things in place.

There's really a wealth of things he could teach from his personal early experiences that he just doesn't. And that's the stuff I wanna learn. In the early courses I bought, and the seminar and mastermind I attended, it almost seemed like he wasn't the same person who did DYD. Yet in his ads for his IM courses, he talks about brining his 10+ years of experience along to teach you. Experience he never really brought to the courses after you bought.

There ARE guru's, though, that do teach you real stuff that would surprise you. Frank Kern and Jeff Walker both come to mind.

Frank Kern teaches you a lot of the "unsaid" part of marketing, like the so-called "syndicates" (and I really appreciate that Frank taught about this). And Jeff Walker seems to completely spill the beans about launches. Both teach things that could be considered "damaging admissions", things that are very "real", but that's what I like. You only succeed when you learn about and embrace reality. You can't get your hands dirty with anything else. To succeed, you gotta do what successful people do, and you have to keep up to date. You can't use the aged weak sauce some other teachers promote, and poof, you're a success.

Nicole G

Yeah, I agree. You're absolutely right. There's a ton to learn from how he sells, to do what he actually does and not what he says. (but you can't SEE some of what he does, so it'd be nice for him to teach it!)

Although modeling wise, I'd rather learn from and sell like Frank Kern or Morgan Spurlock does. The playful way they sell vibes a little more with me.

Eben's sales approach, though, implies to me -- ok, this is time to REALLY get serious, really dig deep... and that's not what I've found after you click the buy button and "see him on the other side". It seems more like a community college course or Learning Annex course on basic marketing, with some other modules thrown in to learn things that really aren't all that advanced.


Yeah, exactly! I didn't understand what that was all about. He doesn't use aweber or 1shoppingcart, yet he had other people (when you were sold on Eben, not other teachers) teaching you about both of those things... and not even really as good as they do in cheap WSOs here.

A lot of those trainings weren't from him, were overly fundamental, and
were also very dry. At least many of the people who make WSOs have passion (probably because they're 100% vested, and it's their reputation on the line). It makes it more fun to learn.


Yeah, I guess you're right. But that's a real shame, considering he promises in his sales videos to teach you from his *experiences* over the past 10+ years. HIS experiences, Eben's experiences, not someone elses. Yet the whole "how to do things" part is all ABC stuff about 1shoppingcart and aweber. Stuff people learn their first month in IM. *shakes head*

I KNOW he has the experience I crave to learn from. He had a real non-IM business far before he got into IM. He used significantly more advanced services and techniques to get there. I just wish he'd share THAT experience. For $2k to $5k a course, he should be teaching something better.

Nicole G

Man, I wanted to... He promises to teach you so much from his experience selling his non-IM products like Double Your Dating, but I've traveled down that road before. I was too afraid he's promise and not deliver again.

The responses here seemed to confirm that fear. I also carefully watched the latest sales video again, and tuned especially into the testimonials at the end. He chose to show people there who are complete newbies, who are in utter awe. I can understand a complete newbie being impressed, but I'm not a complete newbie. I have things to learn, yes, but it seems even I'm beyond the level he's teaching to.

Unless someone can correct me, I'm not sure these products are really designed yet for people already in the IM community. For that reason, I don't really think he should be promoting to people already in the community. Absolute newbies yes, those with at least a few months of experience, no... It just wastes our time and money.

Rick Britton

I was a big fan of "Dave D" long before I even thought of trying to make money online.

In fact, the whole "deep inner game" stuff that he did (which I got all free from file shares) got me into NLP, hypnosis and a whole bunch of stuff which changed me from an AFC (average frustrated chump) into something totally different.

I remember, after listening to a few hours of hypnotic script where he basically described every mistake I made with women, having a huge internal twist with me lying on the couch groaning as the realisation struck home. Real life changing moment for me way back then...

laughed my socks off when I saw his IM guru video stuff...

That's Dave D I said out loud. Anyway good to remember

Christophe Young

I've seen a lot of Eben's stuff and I'm trying to see if I can remember what he said regarding his DYD business.

I know he was really popular on various dating seduction forums under another pseudonym so when he wrote his first dating ebook, (in his bedroom, next to his bed... lol), he had plenty of targeted traffic to send to it initially.

He used Google adwords primarily for paid traffic generation. I know because I see his ads all over the place on Google's network.

The burning question to me is how did he build his list to almost a million subscribers in a rather short period of time. That's the only question that's really important, IMO.

I think a lot of it had to do with his relationships with the IM big boys, Frank Kern etc, and also him getting the opportunity to advertise on the dating site, Askmen.com. Askmen has TONS of targeted dating traffic, and might be the biggest site out there.

Getting "lucky" and getting in with the inner circle isn't something that sounds easy, and sexy on a sales page. That's why you always see the standard traffic and IM methods on a lot of sales pages but we both know that isn't necessarily how you become the top dog.

Chris Sorrell

To be fair to him, he does offer courses from $6k - $24k which I imagine offer a further insight into his real business methods but obviously, that kinda money is hardly chump change and is out of reach for a lot of people. It appears that his point of entry for IM courses is the $2k mark. If you want more advanced stuff from him then you're looking at $5 - $20k.

Nicole G

Chris, that's the exact stuff I'm talking about, though.

While I haven't bought any $24k products from him that I know of (nor am I aware of them -- maybe that means PER year?), I have bought $5k products. In fact, I think the first product I bought from him ever was exactly $5k. I've been part of his in person $5k+ masterminds. I think I would've been on the hook for $50 or $60k product if I stayed in -- making it a very expensive product, up there with trekking around the world with Tony Robbins. That's the stuff I'm talking about.

I actually bought his cheaper products to see if he'd go more in depth into things, for some weird reason.

Cheap or expensive, the actual deliverables were really newbie level. The actual in person mastermind, too, wasn't run in the normal way many are where the participants drive the direction of it and share their most up to date, most killer stuff. It was run more like a mini course where he drove the content. I guess he wanted to record and resell that to newbies, too.

Fast forward a few years, and he has a lot more products today. I figure, by now, maybe his products have gotten better and more in depth due to feedback. There's probably a lot of people like me who have wanted indepth details on his non-IM stuff, so maybe he's made a product that addresses that by now.

If you want to be most fair... tell me if his stuff is any better today, or if it's just an endless repeat of how it was when he started. Usually people and their materials get better with time. I'm certainly willing to give the guy a second chance, but nobody here so far has said it's worth it. That's a bit sad.

I just wanna learn from him about his non-IM business and what he actually does, darnit! Kern, Walker, Michael Lovitch, and a few others teach what they actually do, what actually works. Heck, even Perry Belcher teaches a lot of killer stuff, despite his past. I hope Eben does by now, too, that's all.

MemberWing

Eben loves people and loves psychology. He knows how to charm the girls. I am sorry but girls are no different from people looking for IM secrets to make money. They want to be impressed, they love to follow the guru who will tell them what to do - this will make them to feel safe, they want to feel appreciated and they want to feel safe about their future.
Eben addressing all these needs in his promo materials in lovely manner, people are salivating and [taking off their pants] pulling out their credit cards to achieve that piece of mind that Eben is delivering.
We all know what follows - poor gets poorer, rich gets richer and millions other will stay where they are.
And big chunk of old suckers are going to bite the bait the next time, salivating from the next "launch".

Gleb

Jesus Perez

I recall reading he built the DYD biz with a squeeze page and Adwords PPC. Then he closes in the AR series.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3...01181406pm.png

Then, the Adwords squeeze slap came and he changed the layout to the existing pre-sell, content based version. Now he threatens anyone that mimics the layout. It converts very well.

From there...affiliates. Not much more to it.