pacesetter007

Hello Warriors,
I've read alot about the working wonders of the $7 script as well as the Rap script. If you'd experienced them, can you please help throw light into this questions.

1. Do this scripts still have issues with paypal?
2. Are they still as effective as the used to be?
3. Which would you prefer between the two-$7script or Rap script.
4. Is it possible to integrate other payment processor into them? Like Alertpay?

With that solved, here're more marketing oriented questions that'll benefit a good number of warrior...myself inclusive.

1. How/Where do you get affiliates to promote your product(s)?
2. Do you automatically opt-in your buyers to your mailing list?
3. Can anyone please show a sample website that basically uses either the $7 script or Rap script?

Thanks in advance as you share your knowledge.

Tim

globalpro

Tim,

The big difference between the 2 is the features. RAP is a turbo-charged version of the $7 script. You can get a better idea of what RAP offers by going to the RAP site.

Rapid Action Profits (not an affiliate link)

To answer your questions:

1. The issues with PayPal are not from the scripts, but from the users. Over 2000 people currently using it without issue.

2. I still get clients on a regular basis and have many full time people I work with. RAP is a tool to sell products/services. The effectiveness comes in what you are offering.

3. I am partial to RAP, but I may be a bit biased.

4. RAP uses PayPal exclusively, but there is a ClickBank add on that works well.

Next set of questions.

1. A good place would be forums, or you can list at RAP Bank.

RAP Bank*Instant Commissions Vault

2. Is handled through the sales process.

3. Go to RAP Bank and follow the links through to the product home pages. Plenty to choose from.

Hope that helps.

Thanks,

John

CDarklock

The first thing you have to understand is that PayPal cannot give an answer about a tool, they have to know what you are doing with it. Even then, they cannot say "yes that is okay," they have to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. They can, however, say "no" outright.

So the three answers you get from PayPal are always:

- I can't answer that
- It depends
- No

When you ask PayPal about what people actually do with RAP and 7DS, they always come back with "it depends." That's as good as it gets.

But if you're sneaky and conniving and would like to get a "no," there are some very useful trigger words and phrases that will make PayPal say "no" without cluing in the general public that you've asked a very suspicious question. Like "rotating." Or "multiple affiliate partners." These words sound like MLM pitches, and in general MLM is verboten on PayPal. So if you say something that sounds like an MLM pitch, but is vague enough that the PayPal rep doesn't really know what you mean, they'll play it safe and send you a "no" just in case.

Define "effective." They get the money just as well as always. They pay the commissions just as well as always. Hundreds of people are using them on thousands of sites every day.

RAP makes 7DS look like dog meat.

Not easily, although you can write add-ons. Sid is, however, under a lot of pressure to provide support for other processors... so I'm guessing that will change at some point in the future, but that is just speculation.

RAPBank.com is a great place for it.

No. RAP can do this, but I personally prefer to ask for the optin separately and make the buyer fill in a new form. This is because I am weird, and not because of any deficiency in RAP or any policy at AWeber.

Head to RAPBank.com and you'll find a LOT of them. All those products are being sold through RAP. Most of the real "core" of the RAP script is invisible; the system can look however you want, and there's no reason it has to be in any way visible or evident that you're using it.

pacesetter007

With the complains I hear about digiresult, I don't think I'm inclined to using them again.
Infact, I'd already signed up and was about linking my paypal for verification when I started seeing threads on how paypal hold funds and only the MERCHANT gets his hands burnt after all parties have collected their money. I really don't want that happening...

Tim

Sid Hale

Digiresults is a good, solid service - but don't kid yourself.
More importantly, your statement is misleading to others here on the forum...

While there is no upfront cost to use Digiresults, there is a fee on every sale made.

If you're selling a $10 product through Digiresults, you'll pay $1 in transaction fees (10%). If you're selling a $27 product through Digiresults, you'll pay $1.85 in transaction fees (~6.85%).

Those are above and beyond the Paypal fees per transaction.

In the first example, if you don't expect to sell more than 197 copies of your product at $10, your Digiresults fees won't be over $197 (the current price of RAP).

In the second example, if you don't expect to sell more than 107 copies of your product at $27, those fees won't be over $197.

So the question is the same as it has always been, when deciding whether to "rent" or "buy". Which option is more economical over the long term?

The savings in transaction fees from just a single WSO could easily allow you to buy your solution, rather than renting.

RAP was first released almost 4 years ago (birthday next month). Those who bought then, have long since recovered the cost - just in the savings per transaction. Heck, even if they just bought 2 months ago!

BIG Mike

I agree that DigiResults is another good option, one of many out there. What I don't agree with or understand is the "Expensive" comment about RAP.

I was looking over sales reports this morning (trending data) and at a minimum (a really bad day), we do 50 transactions. Assuming one week of "Bad" days, our cost to use Digiresults would be over $1K. Extrapolating those numbers, that amounts to over $4K per month, or $54K per year. That's on top of regular PayPal fees...and assumes one full year of "Bad" days.

DigiResults is an excellent solution for those starting out that don't have the financial resources or the technical know how to develop/implement their own solution. They provide great support and it's a terrific system - but if you're doing a significant amount of business, you've got to consider just how "Expensive" they could become.

As your business grows, you need to identify and deploy more cost-effective systems, whether it's RAP or something else.

Your thinking about what's expensive reminds me of appliance rental companies from back in the 80's. I remember one called "Rent A Center", where you didn't need to go buy an "Expensive" TV, you could just rent one for $25 per week.

A lot of folks ended up paying 3 or 4 or 5 times the cost of the same television under that scheme, because they thought like you did about what is or isn't expensive.

Tim, PayPal holds funds on suspect purchases no matter what system is used. It has absolutely nothing to do with the system at all, but rather PayPal's anti-fraud technology.

To be fair, the merchants who got burnt were not vetting affiliates - they were just approving anyone who signed up. As a result, they paid the price for it and the last I had heard, DigiResults even went the extra mile and refunded their commissions on the bad purchases, something they didn't have to do.

Let's be clear though that the folks complaining weren't telling the whole story. Used properly, DigiResults is just as safe and effective as any of the other popular systems available.

That said, you asked about the $7 script or RAP - that's a no brainer. Of the two, RAP is a far more robust and feature rich. While the price may seem a bit higher than other solutions, it will pay for itself quickly and many of the advanced features will serve you well for years to come.

pacesetter007

Well said mate. I'm looking at my options now since I don't have as much network to justify using the $197 script and at the same time, the paypal fees on digiresults is too high judging by the fact that I'll be selling low priced product, around $9.95...

Sid Hale

Then the right answer for you is probably in my sig...

I don't push this, but I do offer an installment purchase of RAP that lets you spread the cost out. You could very easily earn enough in your first month to more than pay the remaining two installments.

Your "network" is (or should be) your affiliates, and that "network" is pretty easy to grow once you begin offering instant commissions to affiliates.

In fact, with RAP, you can list your your product(s) for free at both iDAVI - THE Digital Product Marketplace and at RAP Bank. Both of these will promote your product(s) at no cost, while helping you grow your list of affiliates.

Absolute "no brainer"!

pacesetter007

When compared with clickbank, how does RAP perform better?

Sid Hale

Normally, one would try to draw a comparison between two similar objects. When the two things being compared are as dissimilar as RAP and ClickBank, you wind up with a very lop-sided list.

...but here goes.
ClickBank is a service to implement one small part or your sales system, including:

• payment processing
• merchant listing of products (for a fee)
• an affiliate network to promote those products
• up to 75% commissions to affiliates
• payment to the merchant and affiliates on a bi-monthly basis

These services are provided at a cost of $49.95 to the merchant as an "activation fee" for each product listed, plus a per transaction processing fee equivalent to $1.00 PLUS 7.5% of the selling selling price.

RAP is a complete, self-hosted sales system that provides:

• payment processing
• up to 100% commissions to affiliates
• management of discount coupons
• optional split-testing of multiple sales pages per product
• sales page conversion statistics
• management of multiple pre-launch pages
• affiliate management system with:
  • "instant" payment to both merchant, affiliates, and/or JV partners
  • different commission rates for JV Partners
  • optional 2nd tier commission rates
  • optional automatic affiliate/JV optin to any autoresponder service
  • affiliate center with click/sales stats, product commission rates
  • affiliate tools page
• optional support for equity partners (allowing for instant distribution of profits as sales occur)
• complete mailing system with support for HTML or text emails, and support for SMTP mailings
• segmented customer mailing lists (per product, front end sales, and/or oto purchasers only)
• affiliate mailing list (w/ separate mailings for JV partners)
• optional automatic customer opt-in to any autoresponder list
• fraud detection to identify/report fraudulent sales and restrict access to downloads
• protected download pages
• banning of affiliates who have violated your terms
• ...and much more

These features are provided at a one-time cost, that includes a multi-site license, and life-time updates.

To make it easy for affiliates to find/promote your product(s), there are also two free affiliate networks available exclusively for RAP-driven products at iDAVI - THE Digital Product Marketplace and at RAP Bank*Instant Commissions Vault

Rather than collecting fees per transaction, these sites function as super affiliates, recruiting affiliates on your behalf, and providing them a central place to find instant commission products to promote.

Oh... and if you need a longer list of "differences", RAP's unique Add On Architecture allows you to purchase RAP-certified Add Ons (similar to WordPress plug-ins) to extend your RAP sales system with even more functionality.

In short, RAP is a sales/affiliate management system, rather than just a payment processor.

Hope this helps,

pacesetter007

I guess my mind's made up. Once I can come up with the cash to splash, I'll immediately give RAP a go.

I'm thinking on using it on my web hosting sales page as well as some $7 reports I'm getting ready to write...

One last thing please, how does your system protect affiliates from paypal charge-backs from fraudulent affiliates?
For instance, with digiresults, I've heard cases of people who simply lose money because affiliates charge back after purchasing products from the merchants.

Plus- can you please show more light on these?

1. If I offer 100% commission on a product and a customer charges back, will that chargeback be on my paypal account or the affiliates'?

2. Some people say one has to manually verify affiliates with digiresults, is it the same approach with you? Having to manually verify affiliates to avoid scams?

3. If chargebacks on 100% commission products are on the affiliate, then that's a fool-proof way to avoiding paypal scams right? If they aren't, can you please provide suggestions?

4. Finally, on your RAP BANK page, there's a space for featured products. Can someone pay a rental un appear there? If yes, how much?

N.B- I'm sure my self and many others will certainly benefit from the answers to these questions and help make our buying decisions easier. As it stands though, I think I'm already making up my mind...

Tim

Sid Hale

Hi Tim,

Because we've been on the market for 4 years, we've been able to identify numerous methods that others try to "game" the system, and refine our fraud detection/control routines, accordingly.

There are a number of things that come into play here. Without disclosing too much:

• affiliates can be forced to register with your affiliate center before promoting
• we use rotating payments, and the merchant is always paid first, so the affiliate doesn't receive any money until the second sale
• we can detect/block sales where the "buyer" has altered the buy button fields before being sent to Paypal
• we have the ability to ban an affiliate

Any chargeback is to the account that was paid. If the affiliate is paid (as would be the case on a 100% commission product), the chargeback is levied against the affiliate's Paypal account.

No. With DigiResults (or any affiliate network), the affiliate has some anonymity, as they are DigiResults' affiliate - not yours. With RAP, you can force them to register with YOUR affiliate program. This puts the effort on them, rather than on you.

You can also ban affiliates, without having to raise a support ticket with a 3rd party (DigiResults, ClickBank, etc). You are in control.

That's certainly a large piece of the puzzle.

RAP Bank is not my service, but yes. You can pay them an upgrade fee to have your products rotated in the featured ads.

The same featured ads are available with iDavi - but there is no upgraded member fee to do so.

BTW - it's not an either/or decision. Both RAP Bank and iDavi are essentially free listing services, so you should list your products in both places.

pacesetter007

Well detailed reply SID, I am now confident in your system and will immediately give it a try once I'm set...it wouldn't be long because I'm already working on some $7 reports/case studies as we speak...

Once they're ready, rolling out with RAP will be easy and I can cover the cost in profit/list in a relatively short time.

SID, thanks again! I hope other people benefit from this conversation and decide what best suits them.

Tim

netkickstart

There is another option too which is something of a hidden gem at RAP Bank, namely, our List-N-Earn service. It enables you to setup your product on your site using either a stand-alone script or a WordPress plugin, offer instant commissions, and list on RAP Bank (or even a WSO). You can either pay a nominal fee per product or create unlimited LnE products for free as one of the many perks of the VendorPlus membership.

Sid Hale

Hey Erin,

While your List-n-Earn service is certainly another option, your use of the term "free" is a little misleading, as it only applies to the listing fee for VendorPlus members.

There is still a 10% fee per transaction - even for RAP Bank VendorPlus members.

I don't begrudge you that. You certainly should make something from the service you offer.

But that was the whole point of the discussion above... the ongoing costs of a service, vs. a one-time cost for a self-hosted system. Again... rent vs. buy!

wortell

Well, i think some enlightenment is necessary...

A one-time $10 or $20 charge for someone who's not a VendorPlus (listing fee $0 [free - as in freedom / bee-... oh wait - i don't drink... / coffee!]....

Plus 10 or 20% of the sales that the listing LNE'r would make - thus assuming a base of 50% affiliate commissions... the Vendor would make 80% (paying $10 - if not VP) or 90% (paying $20 - if not VP) of the commissions "due to them!".

Meaning - NET!
RB on the top-side will take $10/$20 (one-time fee...) and then only 5-10% (top side) of all sales... (assuming a 50% aff commission).

If the aff. commission is set to 80% - the Vendor will still make 80/90% of the difference in sales due him/her... (ie. 80/90% of the 20% remaining... meaning RB only gets 2-4 outta 100 sales (top-end!)

(after explaining to @Erin above... verbally...)
"There is still a 10% fee per transaction - even for RAP Bank VendorPlus members."

Tho i explained above... the point is... it's not a 10% fee PER transaction. It's a 10-20% equity position... that explains my above comments... in one-sentence. If you want to talk 10% FEEs per transaction try going to PayDotC*om.

Christophe Young

Hello Sid,

RAP is looking more and more like a powerful affiliate management solution. I'm currently using DG and this rent vs buy comparison was really enlightening.

I have one question... is there a way to have PDF ebooks stamped with the customer's details after purchase using RAP? This is something I'm looking for in an affiliate management script as it would discourage sharing of the product.

E-junkie does do this but their affiliate software doesn't do instant commission payments.

Sid Hale

HI Christophe,

Actually, RAP has been a pretty powerful affiliate management solution since the day it was first released. We just didn't bother to tell anyone here at the WF about it, right away.

This has just been brought up at the RAP Forum, in the past week. Here's my take:

What this adds in the way of securing your pdf file (stamping with the customer's info), is really very little protection. It might deter someone from sharing the downloaded file, but I seriously doubt it. Let's face it, if a customer's personal ethics don't deter him, what more deterrence is gained by having it "personalized"?

On top of that, it's almost impossible to keep Google from indexing pdf files (let's face it, there's not a brander written - that will brand it AFTER it's been zipped), thereby sharing the actual URL of your download file... with the world!

I've seen one other PDF brander (a WP plugin), that would love you to believe that this is a great benefit, but...
they require that you use their IPN notification script, and that you specify the download URL in the custom field of the Paypal order button.

RAP already uses the custom field of the Paypal order button to pass 12 different variables between your RAP system and Paypal (including some encrypted fields) for the purpose of ensuring that your download page is protected. There is no provision for the addition of the download URL (i.e. the pdf file) in that custom field, and even if we did - it would be too vulnerable. All it would take is a "View Source" on your sales page, to see that URL.

In short, they have addressed ONE need with their Paypal interface, but do not address all of the other info needed to handle accrediting the sale to the affiliate, ensuring against fraudulent transactions, etc.

Their solution may be desirable for someone who is NOT using affiliates, and who has no other download protection or anti-fraud measures in place, but I don't see it being an effective addition (in the way it is currently implemented) to what we already have.

Hope this helps,

Gary McCaffrey

I run a service that might meet some of your needs. It's free to join and add your product and is really fast and easy to use (your product could be live and ready for sale/recruiting affiliates 5 minutes from now). We have some unique features like dimesales and multiple payment processor support including AlertPay and others coming later this week. We also have a large and fast growing affiliate base. The link is in my sig.

Christophe Young

Thanks Sid,

I was curious as to whether or not RAP was able to stamp PDF files. I know there are a lot of opinions on the topic of protecting ebooks, but I think stamping a customer's details on his copy is really the only way to discourage sharing of the product. I know there are some that will do it anyway, or find a way to erase the stamp, but most will be too lazy to attempt that.

A lot of affiliate management solutions are protecting the download page which is great, but I think there's also a need to somehow protect PDF files from sharing after they've been downloaded.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed reply.

Sid Hale

Hi Christophe,

The most comprehensive service I've found for stamping a pdf file, involves "wrapping" the pdf inside an .exe file, and providing (separately) a license key for the .exe file.

The .exe file can then "call home" to check that the license key is valid, and verify the IP address of the local machine that is opening the book. Without that last step, anyone wanting to share the file, could just share the license key, as well.

Besides the fact that this method really affords very little deterrence (and virtually no protection), it also requires that your customer be comfortable with downloading an .exe file to his/her local hard drive, and it requires that your customer be online in order to read your pdf file.

Not a very "portable" document format.

If you've seen a more workable solution, I'm all ears... but for a solution to be viable, it must also be acceptable to a vast majority of your customers, in order not to impact sales levels.

RichardWing

I have a RAP addon that will brand a pdf.

I am making some modifications to it at the moment but it can stamp your html document with buyers personal info and convert the html into a pdf document personalized to the buyer.

Richard Wing
623-505-6302
skype - richardwing

Christophe Young

I used ebook software for a few years that did just that. It produced an exe file for my customers. Worked fine for the most part, but I eventually dropped it in favor of standard PDF ebooks. I think it's important to only use PDF files now because of the growing popularity of mobile devices which (mostly) only support PDF ebooks.

Other than stamping, I haven't seen a better solution out there for protecting PDF ebooks.

Richard, I might just look into that. I didn't know RAP had "add ons." I assume these are like plugins for Wordpress.

Sid Hale

Well, Hi again...

Yes. RAP Add Ons are very similar to plugins for Wordpress. In fact, it was Richard who "badgered" me into creating the Add On architecture for RAP, and he produced the very first RAP-Certified Add On almost immediately after the capability was created.

That was over 3 years ago, and developers still produce great new add ons today.

The difference is that we have implemented a certification process for RAP Add ons, so that customers have some assurance that different add ons, from different developers, will not step all over each other, nor will they step all over the core RAP code.

There are add ons to integrate with other systems (i.e. MemberWing, Wishlist Member, ClickBank, etc.), there are add ons to supply membership features, and (most recently) the Add On architecture is what makes the iDavi Marketplace available 1) as a way to sell RAP-driven products, 2) for RAP customers to advertise their products, and 3) for affiliates to find instant commission products that they can promote.