MLM Lead System Pro vs. Online MLM Mastermind System??

by 38 replies
Which system would you choose and why?
Thanks!!
#internet marketing product reviews & ratings #lead #mastermind #mlm #online #pro #system
  • Profile picture of the author Hardy Usman
    Both offers $1 trial. Why don't you give it a shot?
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    My instinct is they are both B.S. that will hurt you in
    building a sustainable business. Programs of this nature
    will try to get you to promote the affiliate program
    itself - and the notion is that you make a "back end"
    offer of your real business. Not a good idea. I've tested
    things like this.

    If you want to sell vitamins and enroll vitamin distributors -
    do that. Be transparent and tell people about your
    business. Don't waste your time marketing "lead generation
    systems" to people in other companies as an affiliate.

    I've been doing this for awhile. I've seen these things come
    and go. They won't help you build your mlm much at all -
    it's just a trap to sell you on video marketing gimmicks
    and social networking nonsense. That's my opinion from
    what I've seen. It's unfair, yeah - but I can virtually
    guarantee you if you get caught-up in one of these things
    your energy will be redirected from your "primary" company
    into promoting the "all the same" lead capture pages
    they'll give you.
    • Profile picture of the author 7figurehelper
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      My instinct is they are both B.S. that will hurt you in
      building a sustainable business. Programs of this nature
      will try to get you to promote the affiliate program
      itself - and the notion is that you make a "back end"
      offer of your real business. Not a good idea. I've tested
      things like this.

      If you want to sell vitamins and enroll vitamin distributors -
      do that. Be transparent and tell people about your
      business. Don't waste your time marketing "lead generation
      systems" to people in other companies as an affiliate.

      I've been doing this for awhile. I've seen these things come
      and go. They won't help you build your mlm much at all -
      it's just a trap to sell you on video marketing gimmicks
      and social networking nonsense. That's my opinion from
      what I've seen. It's unfair, yeah - but I can virtually
      guarantee you if you get caught-up in one of these things
      your energy will be redirected from your "primary" company
      into promoting the "all the same" lead capture pages
      they'll give you.

      This is the first time I will have to disagree with you to an extent. Yes most people get attraction marketing wrong, heck even I did when first starting out.

      But then I realized you always have to examine what people are saying and change it up. You must sound different. I've had more success using MLSP than I did building my former companies the traditional way.

      I don't know about others but I love having a system that weeds out the time wasters. I love making money in my sleep off people that don't even join me in my opp. I can sleep good about it b/c I know what I'm offering truly has value that has helped me grow my biz.

      I disagree with Charles 100% about starting your own funded proposal. It takes a lot of hard work, money, energy, resources, and time. Why not leverage what someone else has done.

      I believe you can have more than 1 target market. Promote the system to network marketers and promote your biz to those looking to get started in that industry.

      It works for me well. You just HAVE TO BE YOURSELF AND NOT SOUND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

      In my opinion and this is it, most that are doing attraction marketing are "throwing up" the same way when you meet someone and they just blast their biz opp on you.
  • Profile picture of the author kerry29
    I tried them both. Loren has a point, don't get distracted from your primary business. HOWEVER, I am a fan of the Mastermind system (having left MLMLSP). The way I use it it to promote my primary business. I create custom capture pages directly related and promoting my primary business that lead them to my primary sales page.

    Currently, I use the "lead generating" system as a secondary measure. The key is to stay focused on your primary business.

    I hope this helps!
    • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
      You can also do that without using the Mastermind system. IMHO, both suck.

      Originally Posted by kerry29 View Post

      I tried them both. Loren has a point, don't get distracted from your primary business. HOWEVER, I am a fan of the Mastermind system (having left MLMLSP). The way I use it it to promote my primary business. I create custom capture pages directly related and promoting my primary business that lead them to my primary sales page.

      Currently, I use the "lead generating" system as a secondary measure. The key is to stay focused on your primary business.

      I hope this helps!
  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    ER:

    I can see both sides.

    I think that you need to be your own Mike Dillard.

    My opinion, write your own funded proposal system. It is not that hard when you think about it. The point is to get them into your funnel.

    If you use ANY other funded proposal system, you will be on their autorresponder and yours. And if they attracted you in the first place, who do you think they are going to listen to? Who has more authority, them or you? My bet is them.

    How many times do you see MLM Lead System Pro and some dudes don't even bother to change the copy? That makes them leaders that I want to follow?

    If you are challenged in writing one, PM me, and I will write and create one for specifically for you. You can use it for the people you attract and your prospects will get one set of messages.

    Why go through all the trouble of getting traffic and share the list with somebody else?

    Charles
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Exactly Charles. Dillard is smart - he has the power.

    When you use his system you don't get the same power.
    You pay the advertising bill and he collects power whether you
    succeed or fail.

    As long as your business model is built around promoting an
    affiliate site and somebody else's name you are in a position
    of weakness. When you own the system you promote it to
    build your own power. As long as prospects know it is not
    of your creation your leadership power is fragile.

    I maybe should not even write this here. I don't want
    too many people knowing this is the way it really works.
    • Profile picture of the author David Frey
      I can speak with authority about this because I DO in fact, make a large
      sum of money each month from my network marketing business.

      I'm the #2 money earner in my company. I've been the #2 money earner
      for 3 years and running. I'm the all-time #1 recruiter.

      I highly recommend to people who want to be successful in network
      marketing to reach out to their family and friends in the first 90 days
      of joining a business.

      As much as you don't want to hear that, it's proven time and again, that
      tapping into existing relationships by reaching out to people that you
      already know is the absolute fastest way to start your business.

      When you eventually run through your entire warm market list, you should
      then start working through the warm market list of the people that you've
      brought into the business.

      Doing these two things in your first year will help you become successful.

      __________________________________________________ ___________

      Here's what happens to people who rely on the internet and templated
      lead generation systems to generate leads...
      __________________________________________________ ____________


      They get heavily involved in the internet marketing part of the business
      and eventually lose interest in and drop out of their primary business.

      I've seen this happen again, and again, and again, and again...FIRST HAND.

      There is a significant educational process and ramp up to learn online lead
      generation. It takes skills.

      Skills which are NOT duplicateable.

      Not even the simplest internet marketing systems are duplicateable because
      they all require some level of technical capability.

      __________________________________________________

      Have you ever heard of the "Grandma Nadine Rule"
      __________________________________________________ _

      The Grandma Nadine Rule states that if your grandma can't
      do it, it's not duplicateable.

      Network Marketing is all about getting LOTS of people to do
      4 simple steps.

      1. Ask people if they're interested in making some extra money.

      2. Giving them a CD, DVD, report, online video or some 3rd party
      tool to watch or read.

      3. Asking them if they have any questions and then signing them
      up.

      4. Teaching the person you signed up to do step 1-3 over and
      over again.

      __________________________________________________ __

      Now if you're dead set on using the internet to prospect...
      __________________________________________________ __

      Do this...

      1. Create your own 60 minute audio CD that has something
      to do with your primary business.

      2. Create a landing page and get people to request it.

      3. Send them the CD and follow up with them.

      But you know, what I've just told you is NOT duplicateable
      and the people you bring in will say, "How can I make that
      CD like you did?" and you'll be spending most of your time
      helping people make CD's rather than introducing the business
      to other people.

      _____________________________________________

      Now before anyone starts ripping on me...
      _____________________________________________

      ...let me ask you.

      Have you built a team of 8,000 reps in a non-internet based
      network marketing company?

      Have you made over $1 million in network marketing?

      Have you been doing it full time for over 3 years?

      If not, you're probably not qualified to dispute what I'm
      trying to teach you because you simply don't have the
      experience.

      Stop messing around with other people's lead generation systems.

      Go out to your warm market. If you're not willing to do that, then
      network marketing is probably not for you.

      All the best.

      David Frey
      MarketingBestPractices .com

      P.S. With that said...if you're dead set on using the internet for
      prospecting. Stop doing network marketing. Focus on internet
      marketing for at least 1 year. Build a list that loves you. THEN
      introduce your network marketing business. But don't try to do
      both at the same time. It's a recipe for going no where.
    • Profile picture of the author megaplex
      Cetting Flipped,

      these guru's say hey dont promote your company promote yourself and I'll show you how, jsut promote me and my guru stuff instead.

      So now instead of promoting your company or even promoteing yourself you end up promoting the Guru's and his stuff.

      There needs to be some way of addressing this Guru flip.

      Promoting the company is ok but companies come and go and we also come and go from companies. So there is a lot of advertising leverage the companies gain for free.

      Promoting the Guru is ok but Guru's come and go and we also follow and un follow Guru's. So there is a lot of advertising leverage the Guru's gian for free at our expence.

      Surely there's a work around here, between the three parties,
      1. You
      2. Guru
      3. Company
      No mastter something has to change because the Guru's and the companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

      M



      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      Exactly Charles. Dillard is smart - he has the power.

      When you use his system you don't get the same power.
      You pay the advertising bill and he collects power whether you
      succeed or fail.

      As long as your business model is built around promoting an
      affiliate site and somebody else's name you are in a position
      of weakness. When you own the system you promote it to
      build your own power. As long as prospects know it is not
      of your creation your leadership power is fragile.

      I maybe should not even write this here. I don't want
      too many people knowing this is the way it really works.
  • Profile picture of the author AjAllDay
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
      Originally Posted by AjAllDay View Post

      Hey everybody!! I'm having trouble deciding which system to go with. I 'm currently on both systems and been through all of the trainings for each one. I plug into the training calls for each system as well. I'm more involved with MLM LEAD SYSTEM PRO because I set my aweber account up and set my 1st campaign up. However, I'm having a really hard time in deciding which ststem to go with. If anyone with "experience" has any insight they could share with me in helping me decide, it would be highly appreciated. For example, which system is better now and why?? Which system do you think will be better in the future and why?? Once again, I highly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
      That is simple,dude. Whichever one helps you to put the most people in your business.

      Having said that, David Frey is the 800 pound gorilla in one particular opportunity I know of. I think he has valuable insight.

      I would say my insight is valuable too in my above post (IMHO)

      Charles
  • Profile picture of the author TerryMil
    [DELETED]
  • Profile picture of the author TerryMil
    David Frey what is the MLM company you are with?
  • Profile picture of the author hk
    Great Insight, David. Thank you!

    I have been doing internet marketing (mainly as an affiliate) for 6 years and made a few million dollars. Have been thinking about entering MLM on net, but decided not to do so after reading David's post. Thanks.
  • Profile picture of the author ethan97
    With all due respect to David...

    - there are internet-based MLM prospecting systems that anyone with desire can step right into and succeed without a significant ramp-up to learn online lead generation, but they are proprietary and used strictly within the groups that created them and are not for sale (to my knowledge) outside the particular organizations

    - I personally know three people who are full-time in network marketing and have easily made over $1 million in the business. Two of the three built large organizations largely online, the third built about half of his business online. Nothing wrong with learning how to build locally, belly to belly, but it isn't the end all and is not required for success.

    I think David is keenly aware that 95% or more of the "build your MLM online" stuff is garbage and will lead down a path to failure. His insights are valuable. This does not mean, however, that a successful business can't be built online - it just takes exceptional leadership with solid training and tools.
  • Profile picture of the author spooon
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Riley
      Thanks for the original question and insightful posts.

      This very question is something that I have spent a bit of time researching recently. I can say that I'm not a fan of either system now because of my research.

      My main objections are that using these systems you are actually branding someone else more so than yourself - yes with either system you can put your own video on the page and hopefully you would be able to change all the wording to show your personality as a leader ideally.

      But in my research very few do - these pages are instantly recognizable as a replicated page 100's or 1000's of them saying exactly the same thing at the same time teaching the reader not to promote their mlm company directly because of the replicated page effect lol

      They do at a basic level provide some basic education in internet marketing concepts - training boot camps so i guess that would be a plus for some.

      Another thing that turned me off was the impression given that this was attraction marketing couldn't really feel the love myself.

      The auto-responder messages that I received from people using the MLMLSP system really stunned me so much that I would give them a 5 star rating as the best rejection repulsion marketing of all time.

      here is one subject line Im sure you've seen this before tho
      ==========================================
      Congratulations Joseph, You've Just Made A Commission!
      ==========================================
      Well guess what when I opened that email there were no payment details when i checked my paypal and affiliate accounts also no payments received from you, should I send you an invoice reminder

      Guess what you great attraction marketing expert - You have just lied to me and I no longer find you attractive - you've lost my respect.

      Another amazing subject line that totally blew me away was -
      =================================================
      Get off my list Joseph if you won't trade $1.00 for YOUR Success!
      =================================================

      Hmmmm such difficult choices a moral dilemma could anyone here
      help me


      For now I have decided to stay on that list not that I would ever join this program or anything recommended just for the comedy relief

      I have recieved the same email series from others using this system seems that people being lazy will just plug in the same auto-responder series without even reading it or thinking to change them to truly reflect their own personality - that is not attraction marketing that is copycat lazy marketing - IMHO


      A wonderfully simple solution if you want to get all your mlm or new business partners really trained up would be to send them to warriorforum just one hour a day here reading the posts and asking serious questions will get them trained up very very quickly.

      Best wishes and the very best of success with whatever you decide to do
  • Profile picture of the author PowerOfOne
    haha, very funny thread.

    Lots of opinions. Not as many facts or understandings
    of what these systems actually are.

    But hey... to each their own.

    Jonathan
  • Profile picture of the author tush
    I highly recommend to people who want to be successful in network
    marketing to reach out to their family and friends in the first 90 days
    of joining a business.

    As much as you don't want to hear that, it's proven time and again, that
    tapping into existing relationships by reaching out to people that you
    already know is the absolute fastest way to start your business.

    When you eventually run through your entire warm market list, you should
    then start working through the warm market list of the people that you've
    brought into the business.

    Doing these two things in your first year will help you become successful.

    David, this strategy is very dangerous. I must confess that I failed at it miserably. As Ann Sieg puts it, " A Prospect who comes to you is infinitely more qualified than any one you would ever approach yourself". The problem is most distributors are not even trained on how to approach their friends and family. What they do is to tell every one how great their products are... they appear like sales men desperate to make a quick buck....

    I have done network marketing using both methods, but I regret the time I wasted using old school tactics.

    The internet is huge. The cake is big. This is the time for everyone to get their portion. What a joy is to open your mail box every morning and you find a hot lead interested in your business!

    Many network marketers are getting it wrong. They just lead with funded proposals. This is very dangerous. These proposals have their place but one should first provide value. Their main proble is that they are branding sone one else. Besides, people are different. There is no system which is duplicatable.... The key to succeed online is to find your niche and target this market. be yourself. Provide value, build relationships, and recommend whatever you have after you have established this relationships. No wonder, even google doesn't like these replicated pages. That is why many have been affected by the "Google slap".

    Network marketing is a real business. Those who are looking for an easy way out will soon be wiped out!
    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Originally Posted by tush View Post


      Many network marketers are getting it wrong. They just lead with funded proposals. This is very dangerous. These proposals have their place but one should first provide value. Their main proble is that they are branding sone one else. Besides, people are different. There is no system which is duplicatable.... The key to succeed online is to find your niche and target this market. be yourself. Provide value, build relationships, and recommend whatever you have after you have established this relationships. No wonder, even google doesn't like these replicated pages. That is why many have been affected by the "Google slap".
      This is correct Tush - in my experience. Funded proposals have their place but
      can also chase-off some of the best prospects by trying to strong-arm them
      into paying "application fees" and so forth. Joe Schroeder gets it as close to
      right as anybody - but his style is obfuscatory and that is a problem with using
      his stuff if you don't want that vibe in your marketing.
  • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
    Jonathan Budd's System - hands down.

    You are getting RED HOT, PROVEN copy for $47/mo and it's completely branded to you and your business.

    99% of people who see your page will have never seen it.

    It really is like buying the rights to proven sales material from a 6 figure monthly earner.. not sure how you can beat that...

    I'm not currently in MLM but let's just say I've been around the block.

    Jonathan Budd is the man and there's a reason he's quietly taking over this industry...

    http://siteanalytics.compete.com/mag...com/?metric=uv
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    so you aren't a customer (since you aren't "in MLM")
    ... but you are happy to enthusiastically
    pimp the product as the best thing ever?

    ...interesting...

    If YOU feel it's a good value - go ahead and join and
    do what they say - then you'll know for sure.

    There are many layers of illusion in internet marketing -
    and while success leaves traces they are not always
    simple to read accurately.
  • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
    Hi ER70275:

    Hope you are well today. If you decide to go with any of the products you mentioned or other sites please be careful of their cancellation clause.

    Yesterday while researching a product a site offered 1 dollar trial for a month with auto renewal after but if you want to cancel they put in the agreement you must do so 10 or more days before the next month or you are charged the full amount. This is throughout the time you join.

    If a product is good it should stand on it's own. Even if the value is average, you should be able to withdraw membership 1 minute before a new month begins and not have to pay, or even fight with the vendor/PayPal/bank for a refund.

    Please choose wisely and good luck!
    • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
      I'm in the same company as David Frey. I do agree with him on many points he had mentioned, but I have some differences to pick with him. He forgot to mention that his sponsor (who is actally my sponsor) has an account with Mr. Budd's system and has done quite well with sponsoring people online. The guy above him has a MLSP account (he got me into MLSP as well). Yes, even the top leadership of network marketing companies disagrees on this.

      I will agree with him about warm market. People should do that, but as a start. Most of us eventually do run out of warm market and these systems do provide another way to do business.

      Are they for everybody? Absolutely not! I happen to have been online for over 10 years and own an insane amount of websites, so this stuff is not a big deal. I have people on my team who ask about using these systems and the first thing I ask is how comfortable they are with blog building, article marketing etc. If they know very little about this stuff I encourage them to do things the offline way.

      By the way, I also feel that "duplication" is a myth. So, doing something because it does or doesn't "duplciate" is silly. What works for one does not work for others. Each of us has to find our own path to success. Our job as sponsors is to guide our distributor into what path is best for them.
  • Profile picture of the author tush
    So now instead of promoting your company or even promoteing yourself you end up promoting the Guru's and his stuff.

    There needs to be some way of addressing this Guru flip.

    Promoting the company is ok but companies come and go and we also come and go from companies. So there is a lot of advertising leverage the companies gain for free.

    Promoting the Guru is ok but Guru's come and go and we also follow and un follow Guru's. So there is a lot of advertising leverage the Guru's gian for free at our expence.

    Surely there's a work around here, between the three parties,
    1. You
    2. Guru
    3. Company
    We just need balance here. I have discovered that promoting each of these things have their own place in the overall success of a person. Leveraging off gurus and their systems helps you to gain credibility and make some money as you learn how these things work. As we know, it takes time to make significant amounts of residual income. This helps most distributors to stay in positive cash flow.

    But the truth is, there is no system which is duplicable. What we should do is to present all options to people so that each one chooses a method that works for them. Yes, even offline works if that is what you like and you know how to use the consultative approach.
  • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
    By the way, most MLM companies are getting strict about what you can say about them online. They can and will make you delete your Squidoo lenses, Hubpages etc. One more reason to promote yourself!
    • Profile picture of the author David Frey
      Online systems can help you recruit.

      Recruiting is the easy part.

      But making them stick and work the business over a long period
      of time (i.e. 5+ years) is the key.

      And normally, if someone has come to you through the internet,
      they will leave you through the internet.

      The top people in my organization were people I knew on a personal
      basis or that were introduced to the business through a personal
      friend.

      Only one leader in my organization came to me through the internet
      and he had been on my newsletter list for years.

      I was sitting in a lecture given my Randy Gage one day and he drew
      this chart on the board.

      The chart showed a strong upswing in the first two years, then a
      steady line representing no growth for a year and then a line swinging
      straight down.

      He explained that when you bring people in through the internet, you'll
      have two or so great years and then you'll experience a period of stagnant
      growth and then people will start dropping out like flies.

      I've found that to absolutely correct.

      So for all you who have been using replicated online lead generation systems
      to build your network marketing business, good luck.

      You'll experience short term success, but in the long run, you will struggle.

      I'm talking to the group collectively and not individually.

      David

      P.S. And to Carlos' point, I believe that duplication is 80% people and 20% systems.
      Find the "right" people and you'll duplicate. But in the end, you DO NEED a very
      simple system that EVERYONE on your team can do (and not everyone can do
      internet marketing).
  • Profile picture of the author tush
    David wrote:
    Network Marketing is all about getting LOTS of people to do
    4 simple steps.

    1. Ask people if they're interested in making some extra money.

    2. Giving them a CD, DVD, report, online video or some 3rd party
    tool to watch or read.

    3. Asking them if they have any questions and then signing them
    up.

    4. Teaching the person you signed up to do step 1-3 over and
    over again.

    __________________________________________________ __

    Now if you're dead set on using the internet to prospect...
    __________________________________________________ __

    Do this...

    1. Create your own 60 minute audio CD that has something
    to do with your primary business.

    2. Create a landing page and get people to request it.

    3. Send them the CD and follow up with them.

    But you know, what I've just told you is NOT duplicateable
    and the people you bring in will say, "How can I make that
    CD like you did?" and you'll be spending most of your time
    helping people make CD's rather than introducing the business
    to other people.
    David, you make very good points here. It is good to give people options and they see what works for them. Personally, model one never worked for me. I can say that I have found model two(internet marketing) a better choice for me.

    There is one thing I have noticed about systems.... it takes time to build your primary business. But the immediate cash flow you make is a good thing. What people really need is to focus on their opportunity, set up a funnel customized to that opportunity. In that case, they will attract prospects who are really targeted.

    Annette
  • Profile picture of the author wiplash1
    Personally, I am not a real big fan of cookie cutter systems with all kinds of extra tools inside that you have to purchase to be successful with the various systems. I do however feel that if you take a great tool from Clickbank or Amazon such as an ebook or piece of software and create a squeeze page, mind you a very simple one, you can have much luck with it. This will put networkers on your list that will be looking for more valuable offers. Target specifics and get them onto your list. If you create a nice squeeze page to advertise in Twitter and the social networks to put people on your list, and you earn from your offers, you have the ability to build credibility because you offered a product that helped people do better with their business. With the added credibility, the people on your list can view offers that you have anytime, anywhere. I would not use a cookie cutter system, but I would use a blog as your self branding platform. I have a website from my starting point in the industry. Now that it is getting free traffic from the search engines, I am seeing my list grow on autopilot. You can put an opt in form on almost any blog. Another thing that you can do to make money on the front end is offer your autoresponder affiliate link so that you can share any campaigns. I also add my Skype link to my emails so that I could directly build relationships with my people to create my own warm market.
    I have created about 200 warm market people that I can just say hello to at any time and see how they are doing. The bottom line is that you have to build the relationships. I get about 10 people per week added to my Skype list and those tend to be people that are even more hungry then those that are just receiving my follow up messages.

    The bottom line is that Internet marketing has little bearing on the program that you are a part of. Internet marketing involves how well you can solve a problem that people have with their business without being too pushy. Personally, I don't mind having the people come through my funnel that are on a lot of other lists. Those people are the most hungry and their budget is low. If you can show them how to build a budget, they now view you as an expert.

    For the newbie deciding on which system is the best, I would pick neither because you need to examine the profit/loss situation. Most programs make you make extra purchases or join other programs that may not be affordable for the average newbie. Personally, I like GDI because it is only 10 dollars per month and it is easily duplicated.
    I also use Traffic Wave as my autoresponder because it has a great compensation plan and they have always delivered my emails successfully. For 28 dollars per month, an individual can have two great affiliate programs that will assist you to sell any niche products and build a list. It is so simple. Then use the various marketing techniques and be available to your team so that they could use your marketing techniques.

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