my_addict_mind

i dont blame you for defending this product because you are obviously affiliated with a product containing rehashed ideas.

i am not against people's success, i just don't like some people here who are the so-called gurus and their cohorts preying on IM (newbies and non-newbies).

i don't need to buy the software. there are more much versatile software that can do ppc management for free. as i mentioned, there is excel, imacro and recently pushbuttonmarketer (not free but excellent product).

if you think the monthly price is justified, go to any freelance site and hire a programmer who can do that in less than $100, one-time.

sunnyman

I saw the interview with Tim. The approach is kind of interesting, it builds on the fact that most AdWords campaigns fail.

Now, from the numbers Tim mentioned I get that you need deep pockets to launch such a campaign as he does.

IF:
- you start 1000 ads
- 90% of ads are losers
- You lose only $5 per ad testing before weeding those out

Then:

- you lose 900x$5 = $4,500 upfront
- you are left with 100 winners, which make you on average maybe $4/month according to Tim.
- Which means you now have an income of 100x$4/month = $400/month
and so after about 11 months you are in the black...

And so on....

James Schramko

Sure,

You could say the same about wordpress blogs and websites. Grab one for $100 at gurulance etc....

I have proprietary tools for PPC and SEO etc.... so I understand this.

There is however a time and energy cost to develop tools. Also you need to know what it does to be able to get it built.

There is a market of people who are happy to have easy access to a tool that works and has been developed and tested.

If it enables people to get the job done then the membership is of little consequence.

James Schramko

I thought membership was the software? Do they sell them apart?

(Correct me if I am wrong please because I did not buy it I already have it).

James Schramko

A percentage of the 100 will make lot more than average. The top 10 percent will make lot more again.

Scot Standke

According to the manual, over the course of time, Tim and a lot of his
clients, over thousands and thousands of campaigns, you will average $5
a month income for every ad group you create, win or lose.

So, taking into consideration the winners and losers are sorted out under
the guidelines laid out in the book, you can create 1,000 ad groups in a
month and fully expect to earn $5,000 a month from those ad groups.

The manual also says that you can create up to 100 ad groups in an hour.
I have not used the software yet, but if that is true and the $5 per ad
group holds true, this "COULD" be a gold mine.

Scot

UKTim29

Only if you include products with low search volumes that won't make any money. Type anything that actually sells into a search engine for example any product with a gravity of over 50 in Clickbank and there is saturation, same with launches & fast selling products on other networks.

UKTim29

Thats like saying a product launch brings out supporters all with sigs advertising their bonus in product review sections!

James Schramko

Of course it does. It is called marketing. Have you ever seen a hotdog seller at a sports event?

James Schramko

You might think so however I know differently. How do you explain why a certain top selling high Gravity clickbank seller just made a significant growth for his product? And he has a market with very broad high paying words.

Johnson Tay

Hmm... like to clarify, when you say create 1000 ad groups, do you mean keywords of 1000 different themes? Because if I create 1 keyword per ad group, and have 1000 keywords of the same theme, it is also 1000 ad groups.

mick535

Overall, just like any PPC product, there is a very deliberate process for Market Research. if you expect to do any, and I mean any, Google Adwords campaigns and you haven't researched your target market and product effectively, your chances of failing are already at 95% before you even begin.

What happens most of the time is people try to do these campaigns with products or promotions they like instead of doing the legwork they need to do to truly be effective. But then again, keyword and product research ebooks don't sell as well.

Preparation for any PPC campaign is more important than anything. Most of the time these products fail to address that properly.

Google Shadow does an "OK" job at doing this.

Johnson Tay

I'm confused here...

1000 ads? Did you mean 1000 ad groups?

Also.. don't get what u mean by $5 per ad testing... usually, it's spoken in terms of campaign, like $5 budget per campaign (just an example although it's kinda impossible)

Kindly enlighten

mott

So let me get this straight and see if my math is correct. You can average $5 an ad (win or lose), so if you create say 1000 ad groups in a month, you spend $5000, but you make back $10000, for the $5000 profit. That's a pretty good rate of return.

But I guess I am concerened about a couple of things. One is what UKTim brought up, that with Clickbank there are only so many products that actually turn a profit. I can't tell from what I read if the 1000 ad groups I create would be for 1000 different items, or say 10 items with 100 ad groups each (for different keywords), or what.

Another is that only 5% of the ads are making the money. That seems like it's a high risk to find 5% of the ads that are gold mines, and it seems like if you only did say 100 ad groups (as a start), you may not find any, or only one that is profitable. In other words, the more ads you do, the more likely you will find the winners; it's not like if you do 100 ads you'll get 5 good ones, and 200 you'll get 10, etc. You may have to do 10,000 to actualy find that 5%. Or am I wrong here?

Scot Standke

Johnson,

It's my understanding that if you create 1,000 "ads" in a month you can
fully expect to earn $5,000 a month from those 1,000 ads alone. This is
after you weed out the losers and averaged out over thousands of the
authors own ads.

The tools are set up so you can essentially create a single ad and it's
ready to be uploaded to Google, Yahoo and MSN, so for every ad you
create, you are actually creating 3.

Again, I have not proven this for myself, this is just the way it's
explained in the material.

I don't want to come off looking like an expert on this tool yet because
I'm not, but I will be soon

Scot

mick535

This program doesn't focus on Clickbank products. In fact, what most people don't realize is that there is bigger money to be made through volume with smaller commission items than large commission items. Narrowing down your product focus into the "micro niche" and working .05 and .10 keywords can be more profitable in the long run if you pick the right product set.

I made a killing in Baby Clothes last summer.

Google Shadow doesn't focus like this, but it is just my overall opinion when it comes to using PPC and a lot of marketers getting tunnel vision and only using Clickbank products. Clickbank products also have an extremely high refund rate. You won't see that with most physical products.

JayMartins

I've given this a go.. best junk ebook I've read in 2009 so far.

Seriously, I want to hear from someone that has had success with this and isn't an affiliate for it..

Vjack

This sends my BS Meter off the charts and here's why.

If you had a technique that was pulling in $100K a month, *WHY* would you want 1,000's of affiliates directly competing with you? How could it be possible to reconcile the profits with a course against an all out invasion your $100K a month market? Why would you hand this over to Chris X and wallpaper the IM community with your technique - for a % of the profits on a course?

Then comes the standard argument that the market is so huge that it doesn't matter. I haven't bought the course but I'm figuring for this to work well - you'll need trademark / brand seed keywords. And finding them will mean hunting down merchants outside of the networks. There will be super affiliates and an army of affiliates contacting the same merchants and product owners looking for trademark bidding.

An obvious question is; "how big is that market?" I don't believe it could be any way near "unlimited" if you consider the need for TM bidding. Do you think that cream is still sitting on the top?

Suffice to say that Tim and his circle has been mining this market for years. So what do we know about IM courses? When a profitable technique hits a wall - it's time to roll out the IM Course. When you look at the facts, "HOW" could it be otherwise?

If your technique was nocking down $100K a month - and this market was so vast, what would you do? Invite every affiliate on the planet to compete with you - or keep on going?

PS: James Schramko's AW's course looks great.

ebuyer123

LOL...!! Hope your METER is still in one piece...

jimmorris

Way to handle the questions so thoroughly Shramko (dude, you are WAY awesome in here)! The deal is is this. It's not the tool, it's not the ebook, that's ALL useless without the BRAIN MATTER and getting into the thought patterns of people. Come on, I've got NLP Masters (and some of the top ones in the world all around me in my circle of influence). Mind map the dude Tim Houston -- that's what I'm going to do (but I'll do it inside my Private Secluded Mastermind - see video below). It's Tim that's the answer -- his strategies, his ad writing -- and if I haven't said this yet- - COPY is what sells and there is NO difference when writing winning ad campaigns. And I can tell you that everyone on this thread has probably MINIMAL copywriting training. Guaranteed, I can bet my life and my entire business on it. I'm NO master by any means, but I've written some pretty damn good copy in my time (and I review it in depth inside the VIP Titanium Vault). But THAT and the psychology of what Tim Houston does is what is the key. Any smart person wouldn't want his software, they would want HIM! ;D (Now there are going to be ransom threats -- I can just see it -- Tim won't be able to go outside his house now). Here, I'll let you here a private Live Coaching Call with my On Staff Master Copywriter, Scott Paton, who studied EVERYTHING from Michael Masterson and was trained additional on top of that (let's call it collaberation) by Corey Rudl and was Corey's coaching program manager watching over 25 internet marketing coaches that yielded $28 million in sales. Since Scott left the organization, they aint doin to well (and of course since Corey passed away). Scott Paton also runs Podcastbootcamp.com, so instead of just jib jabbering on, I'll invite you into our Golde and Platinum account conversation, but do NOT share this with TOO MANY people because quite frankly, it costs me in overage charges through the service I use. So limited use please... (in fact, just download the MP3 on the site there)...

NicheBOT Live Coaching Show 36b January 14 at 5 PM Pacific

Peace out -- gotta do some more mad videos :P

Actually, I'm so passionate about what I said up above that I made a video about it:

http://warriors.s3.amazonaws.com/itsmentaldude.htm

Luv you Warriors so much!!!

James Schramko

Just a thought here,

Tims whole process IS research. He does not labour over keyword research etc... he just TRIES EVERYTHING.

He expects a 90% failure rate. (Watch Jim Morris video for proof)

The key is in the 10% winners. You have to be fast to switch of losing campaigns. Fail fast and don't so it a second time etc....

James Schramko

Yes!

There are a lot of non-clickbank products out there to sell for $$$ IM'ers get sucked into the clickbank thing but there are much bigger fish out there.

jimmorris

I'm a member of PPC Classroom 2 as well and Amit Mehta, it took him like
15 campaigns to even strike a winner -- and still now -- like he only
expects a WINNING CAMPAIGN every 10 campaigns or every 8 campaigns.

You really just don't KNOW what's gonna hit until you throw a bunch of stuff out there.

The magic is when you put up the ads, you gotta start weeding out the LOSERS and the non-converting keywords.

And like James says, research, research, research.

The way I take my competition out at the knees is by researching THEM and staying on top of the curve and waiting for the moment where I can move at break neck speed and pounce and grab market share.

Same mindset with affiliate marketing -- find out and look at what affiliates in the market you want to compete are doing, track them a little, use some Adspy software to track keyword properties and make your move once you develop enough GUT INSTINCT on the market.

Most people bail out before they ever get started. They just say, "Ah to heck with this, it doesn't work, they are ALL liars and scam artists out there."

It's just not so.

It just takes TINKERING with it. Really!

Just have fun with something -- but commit yourself to it for at least 6 months.

Don't just tinker for a minute, drop the toy and leave it.

Get immersed -- that's the ONLY way to crack your OWN code man!

I'm serious.

My own success is a result of countless years (like 18 years of time)
way before this internet came around.

Anyways, I jabber on...

jlzandrad

I'm trying and it's starting to work

Vjack

Hey Jim - I wholeheartedly agree with you about getting into the thought patterns of people. Wouldn't you agree that it's a great way to ascertain their intention and motivation? For instance, I've got a pretty good idea with respect to how you see this course.

And indeed this may be a great product. But before I'm interested in getting into Tim's marketing thought pattern, I'm taking a look at his money thought pattern. And that brings me back to the question that has yet to be answered:

If you had *Specific PPC Techniques* that were making you $100K a month - what in the hell would compel you to invite every affiliate on the planet to compete with you!?

Increasing bid prices reflect the fact that the whole Adwords universe keeps getting more competitive. In this case, direct linking introduces a smaller corner of that universe. And the corner becomes even smaller if TM bidding has been paramount to success. If that's the case, you can bet the farm that the merchants who allow TM bidding have been thoroughly milked - and it's time to roll out the course.

The devil always lies in the nuances and there is a reason for this course being launched now. Why not last year?

Jim, you nailed it with your remarks about having some fun, getting immersed and just jumping in and weeding out the losers. But for this product, I've got the consumer hat on as there are some great products competing for my money - without another monthly payment. X & Google Cash 4 are coming and there is another that looks outstanding. If GS didn't have a monthly payment and I didn't suspect more BS to tag my card with up-sells - I'd buy out of curiosity.

ben565

it ain't a rumor, this was taken from google adwords

However, we monitor and don't allow the following:

• Redirect URLs: Ads that contain URLs that automatically redirect to the parent company. ie direct linking

jimmorris

Vjack,

Totally know where you are coming from -- and I ask myself
that, too!

But you know what?

I'm gonna say this about the whole "Why would he share the
whole thing to compete with the rest of the world?"...

Why would Jay Stockwell do the SAME thing with his software
Speed PPC that he created behind the scenes for himself first?

Because he wanted to HELP OTHER MARKETERS that needed
the SAME solution.

You can even listen to the whole entire webinar I did with Jay
back last July for my folks on the Anatomy of the Perfect
PPC Campaign (and nearly 4,398 people watched this)...

Anatomy of the Perfect PPC Campaign July 18 at 4 PM Pacific

Furthermore...

There are just so many products, digital products, subscriptions
and stuff to represent out there that I don't believe this will
even affect a little RIPPLE in the tense competition of the
scattered number of marketplaces out there (unless you keep
yourself confined to the IM niche).

Here's why even a RIPPLE is overly converative.

It's what I like to call the Law of Attrition.

It goes like this.

Every Tom, Dick and Harry jumps into this game.

Let's say we have 10,000 people hop on board to buy the
Google Shadow Software just as an example, okay?

I think I am in place of certainty when I say that about .5% of
the population ever really succeeds at trying something --
and I mean REALLY succeeding.

(30 days after people buy products, if not earlier, they realize
the stuff requires work, a lot more mental fortitude than they
have to push through the resistance of learning and guess
what? They up and quit and move onto the next smashing
product launch.)

"Smashing Basil -- I truly love it baby -- it's making me randy
baby. But Basil, what DOES it all mean?"

(with a highly confused look on Austin Powers face) ;D

And you see why the circle of never ending product launches
will never quit? The Inner Circle knows this and they prey
on it like having the mightiest hawk vision.

There is SO MUCH distraction and confusion in the marketplace
created by everyone trying to grab their share of the market,
the larger figures know that there will be constantly those
searching for the "NO WORK" Magic ATM Button Program.

So when someone with a simple plan comes forward like Tim and
is so cut and dry, it's easy to dismiss the simplicity of it all.

I started here on the net in early 2001 with Secrets2Success.com,
yup -- I'll admit -- I was a sucker too! (what scam that was,
basically a chain letter, but that shows what part of the
evolutionary cycle I was in.

So I am YET to find the magic button on the keyboard or on
the mouse click that sends money shooting out of my computer.

And just so you know -- and I will readily admit this in my own
patterns -- I have now since July 08 represented 3 different PPC
products (I think Jim is trying to say something about himself
and trying compensate for the fact that he's really strong in
Organic Search Positioning, but truly lame in PPC positioning).

And that's exactly why I don't only represent, I am actually
using this stuff in my business (and why I am increasingly and
alarmingly selective now who I deal with as I've been abused
and taken advantage of by internet marketers who pulled drive
bys on me!)

Back to the lecture at hand with the whole ATTRITION thing.

There will be a certain number of folks who have a mediocre
or fair share of success that is measurable, but it's NOT break-
through success. ($500 - $1000 a month).

These kind of people either stay at this success level or they
begin to get aware of what they are actually doing and listening
to the people that they are modeling, maybe get some private
mentoring and then move up to the next level. There is this
thing that happens in every arena, even with athletes, that is
call "Plateauing" where you get to a certain level of skill until
you require someone with a much great level of skill to pull
you up a notch. (THIS IS WHY MODELING IS KEY FOLKS. In
other words, WATCH who you are modeling!) Okay, so...

Some stick with it and end up having breakthroughs by making
clear distinctions on what works and what doesn't (and this
requires testing and watching your stats -- okay -- so perhaps
you have to become a stats freak)

So let's just say conservatively speaking that we have 2% of
the 10,000 folks.

Somebody help me with the math here.

We've got like 200 people that are truly doing this STILL like a
month, two months and three months later.

So you CAN clutter your mind with all these limitations and all these
barriers that will keep you from taking action and actually committing
to a SPECIFIC course of action that actually is a target.

I'm telling you Vjack that your issue is NOT this or that and it's
not ALL the people that will have this tool (that's ALL in your mind),
because when you apply ATTRITION to the calculation, you are
simply removing yourself from the game as a result of that belief
you are somehow holding onto (and I'm not going to try and relieve
you of it because it may be dear to you -- that belief).

But again -- I'm not here to psycho-analyze you, but I believe there
are deeper issues that are holding you back and if you and I have ONE
phone conversation, we can eliminate the FEAR, that OBSTACLE that
keeps finding some REASON NOT to commit or attach to any one thing
that could have a potential alarmingly positive outcome.

I mean -- all you have to do is go ahead and pick up the phone and
dial one of my main numbers:

1-800-624-8493
1-760-208-2111

(I'll be heading to Tahoe tomorrow -- so I can't promise I'll be able to
get back in touch with you until next Wednesday, but I think with a
call or two, you could be well and on your way to a limitless future
that doesn't hold you back.)

Most people simply need to let go of some limiting belief or deal
with a current obstacle that is constantly pinning them in a war
of words here or there why some THING can't work and won't work
and staying devout to that position until you die of simply a broken
heart because you didn't attain your dreams and Social Security
simply couldn't withstand the Baby Boomer generation (so a heart
attack was imminent).

I've seen lives transformed on the other side of catching people as
they walked across fire on the first day of a 4-Day Tony Robbins
event where I crewed and volunteered 5 days of my life just for
the cause of helping people transform their lives (no personal
agenda or motive at all - but I actually found out some interesting
marketing things within the Robbins organization as a result of
crewing and you can imagine that I'll be doing that again one
day to gather some further intel). But let me say this about
the Tony Robbins experience (and I'm sure other Warriors can
vouch for it...

It was THE MOST profound experience I can even say and it's
something I would highly recommend. I overcame my own limitations
and fear of speaking in front of crowd and so many limiting
thoughts that truly broke me from the rutt I was in from working
this online rag and being stuck at $20k - $30k range (yeah,
don't rake me over the coals because I aint got it so bad). I
did my TIME and my 4 year bachelor's sentence and am here to
help!

See -- we all seem to not realize that we have what are called
Guidance Systems in us. And if we point ourselves at a target,
more often than not, our brains are developed in such a way as
to go and follow the mission right straight to that target (until
it's completed).

Common mistake when people end up reaching the first goal...

What folks do (and I did this same thing too), I achieved my first
goal, but I forgot to set a NEW goal (dufous me). Somebody
find me a hammer.

So while Personal Power 2 (listening to it about 10 different times
over the course of 2 years while driving back and forth to my
regular Just Over Broke JOB) that was a good series that got me
to a CERTAIN level, but the next level had to be achieved with a
LIVE UPW event and I was lucky enough to be in a position financially
to sit about 7 feet (2 rows) from the massive figure known as Tony.

(The dude is awesome and the passion and enthusiasm he generates
on stage is dynamic and I've seen nothing else like it anywhere
on the planet. If PT Barnum were alive today, he would marvel
in that man's magnificence and brilliance in the marketing and
movement Tony Robbins has created around the world.)

I told my pro copywriter this tonight on the phone. I believe in the
law of attraction, and I use it on a daily basis to draw things into
me (I'm going beyond the Secret here folks). So I told him...

"Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it if you
continue to visualize it on a daily basis in your mind's eye."

You get what you concentrate on. (I believe that firmly and saw
this in the way my mother has continued down a road of deeper
and deeper depression because she decides to concentrate on
the actual DARK stuff in life. Point made? Let's continue.)

If you believe you are up against an impermeable object or a MASS
of competition and you have no clue how to strategically muscle
yourself and put yourself OUT ABOVE THE REST, it's time to go back
to the planning board and find out a way to reposition yourself in
your marketplace.

But do it strategically with the thought of Pre-Eminence in your mind
from the mind of Jay Abraham.

The habit of thinking strategically and growing that muscle with clear
precise steps to achieve market dominance puts you in the place
where MOST will never be because they are stuck in the lullaby of
trying to STILL figure out which way they should head.

Unfortunately, WE did not come with a manual NOR a map that tells
us which way to go. And this huge soup of information out here
with people yelling over here and people yelling over there does
NOT help the situation for you, me and the newbie just now coming
on the net.

Somebody just stop the madness and the excess stimulii from bombarding
me -- ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhh!

;D

When you apply strategic thinking to a situation and begin mind-mapping
it, you begin to uncover flaws and soft spots in what you think would
make a good business model in whatever marketplace you decide to enter.

This is good because once you think out the steps, you can then begin
to find a way to strengthen the potholes that lay in your plan and
foresee potential ramifications that may play out in the future.

Flexing your thinking cap and really applying probing questions to a
given matter will allow you to look at the matter in different shades
and perspectives and increase your strategic thinking powers.

This is the talent -- I can guarantee -- and I haven't even asked
Tim Houston this question -- that both he has and it's something I
am constantly using every day (even when I take a shower in the
morning time).

I am engrossed in my business and it's ALL consuming ... ;D

I have a toolset up in my brain that guides me through this forest
and jungle and the only thing I use to navigate through the mess
is my GUT INSTINCT. I've found to trust in it and quite frankly,
now, I never doubt it.

GUT INSTINCT, once you tune into the radio frequency of your
own gut, it will allow you to make SPLIT SECOND decisions
that will slice, dice and quite dramatically paralyze your competition.

When you can ACT QUICK, you can stun, mame and literally cripple
opponents. (Please read Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun)

Amazon.com: Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun:...
Bottom line, tools are an ends to a mean. If you got no skill to
begin with, a tool will do you no good. It, the TOOL, is only as
good as the Master that crafted the tool to begin with.

You don't hand a razor sharp Samurai Sword to a man or woman
who has never touched it.

You don't send a 2nd year pre-med student in to perform even
an appendectomy, because that med student is NOT a doctor.

You don't see any 1st year mechanic with just a simple certification
working on BMWs right away. Okay, so maybe that was a bad
example, but you get the point.

If you are even considering Google Shadow, or any tool, it's
the actual process of what the tool does that you must
commit yourself to as those will be your daily duties that must
become part of your daily routine.

A lot of this stuff is click, click, click, but it's the critical thinking
part, the decision making skills, the daily habitual disciplines that
are executed perfectly which separates the weak from the strong.

I could go on and on with this stuff, but it would turn into a complete
mind conditioning seminar over the course of 6 days that would end up
costing you a mortgage payment... ;D

James Schramko

Jim I appreciate your mindset . Warriors are lucky to have such a passionate and knowledgeable resource available to them.

You have the answer right there.

If people are posting here why the product won't work and looking for reasons why the market is saturated and the numbers don't stack up then they are right.

There will also be people who will take this bull by the horns and make a go of it.

These are tools. Use them or not.

To your success.

my_addict_mind

jim,

thanks for the post. i really enjoy reading your stuff being a one-time nichebot subscriber. but here is the thing with this. i am approaching this in the most logical way. based on the inputs here:

1. setup 1000 ad groups
2. it was recommended by tim that you have to accumulate 150-200 clicks before you can determine the winner
3. out of those 1000 ad groups, only 100 will give you profit and your gross profit will be $5000
4. of the 1000 ad groups, you will spend for 1000x150 clicks minimum x 0.10 per click. Let us average it at 0.10 per click. Although I think this is in the low estimate because you are bidding on the major keywords like the url, product name, company name, etc.
so my math tells me:

1000 ad groups x 150 clicks x 0.10 per click = $15000

and I expect to earn only $5000 from my investment of $15000
so for the 1st month, i am losing by $10000 (definitely not for those without the money and for newbies)

assuming on the 2nd month that i still have some money left, i campaigned again for 1000 ad groups, then i expect to find another 100 winners

month 2 opening balance -$10000
month 2 PPC costs -$15000
month 2 earnings $10000 (add the 100 winners in month 1 and the 100 winners in month 2= 200 winners)
month 2 ending balance -$15000

month 3 opening balance -$15000
month 3 ppc costs -$15000
month 3 earnings $15000
month 3 ending balance -$15000

so i will be losing for 3 months. if i am just starting, how can i survive with this business model.

even if i wage on my 4th month, there still no certainty if i will be able to come back again from the dead. i think the method is flawed based on the mathematics above. i am not a pessimistic guy. i am also earning my lot online quietly. i can't just help but question so-called revolutionary methods which i think has weak foundation.

i am all for positive thinking but when the underlying principle of the method or technique being used is not strong enough, i think the law of probability and mathematics will catch up with you just like when you gamble in the casinos.

stevecl

My addict mind,

Why not set up ten ads using the method and check the results. one ad should be profitable.

Dump the other 9 then find 10 more rinse and repeat. Over a period of time you will have a number of profitable campaigns.

Google shadow takes scaling things up to the extreme. Start Small then scale it up.

Steve

my_addict_mind

the calculations i have showed are not related to the scaling down or up. here is what i was saying:

10 ad groups x 150 clicks x 0.10 per click = $150 (on the presumption you will get it at 0.10, most likely it will be more expensive than 10 cents)
and per ad group i am expected to earn $5 x 10 = $50
i am still losing by $100

so what i am saying is no matter how many adgroups you have, if you maintain the same proportion as indicated in this wso, you will still be losing.

bidmarket

I am new to internet marketing but intrigued by its capabilities. I already have a successful business so I am not challenged or motivated by making monies to live on. However, I am wanting to learn something that I can teach my children and feel that IM has long term growth and flexibility.


With regards to the shadow, what kind of startup costs are involved? I realize you can do it on the cheap. However, to do it effectively, how much?


How do you find the products to write offers about?


Do you have to be good at writing?


Explain Google slapping and do we run the risk of this happening using this technique? I do not understand how Shadow gets around this


What is meant by placing lots of offers?


Using this methodology, how do we keep track of our costs and our revenues? Is this something that I could wake up one morning and find out that I am out of pocket $1000 to $2000?


Is there any help that comes with it?


I have read about an upsell for $47 regarding blueprints. Is this true and what is it?


There are a lot of people that sure do not like this methodology, why?



Obviously, you did not start out using Shadow. Do you think it is the best way for someone new to proceed?
Thank you
Gary
P.S. I would be interested in speaking to someone directly about Shadow and/or other effective techniques.

jimmorris

Scaling up any business is a matter of managing the itsy bitsy pieces in systematic coordination. I understand the math and all that, but this is simply a matter of deciding WHICH technique you wanna scale up for your business (or if that's your plan at all). If too many Adgroups and managing the stuff is too hectic or mind-boggling, then that is a sure determiner that your mind is telling you this AINT right, no matter how many Warriors try to justify it for you. Just move on and find something else to sink your teeth into... ;D

The worst thing I see in this industry are people that are stuck in neutral and somehow never decide to shift their (OWN INNER) vehicle into drive because they don't choose a particular avenue and then MASTER IT.

Key thing that drives forward progress of any kind = making a decision

Because I'm going to tell you one thing -- when you master one thing -- the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th thing that you want to Master becomes IMMENSELY easier (50-80% easier).

The thing that I've derived about the essence of Mastery is that once you ACHIEVE some sort of mastery over some technique or whatever it may be, you instantly gain a sort of confidence that boosts your self-esteem, thus making the 2nd thing you want to master simply like a piece of cake.

So again, if the resistance in you is doubting based on math (which is all theoretical until you put the rubber to the road), I'm giving you permission to let go of the math and find something else that will bring you the fruits of your creative labor.

This is all LONG TERM vision stuff though... ;D

mick535

The biggest problem people have with PPC overall is they want it to be quick and easy. The problem is; it isn't quick and easy.

I think most products that come out for PPC anymore with a strategy are from guys who are tired of working it and want an overall payoff for their efforts. This doesn't apply to this product neccessarily, but it is just a thought.

I stop campaigningfrom time to time because I get burnout. Biting my fingers every day waiting to see if my next campaign is going to hit or not.

The 3 keywords deal has been easy for me because I already have a process and this was almost a perfect setup. I won't be continuing the campaigns I started for much longer just because I like to keep it to 8-10 campaigns running at once. Scaling any more than that is a pain.

Rob Deviant

Gurus love to proclaim their passion and desire for helping people chage their lives and suceed in this industry. Ironically it's that same passion and desire that makes them filthy rich by sucking money out of newbs.

These "gurus" have stumbled upon a gold mine. And that gold mine is continuity memberships. They are making a killing doing it and if you have noticed all of Chris's latest products involve monthly fees and i'll guarantee the next one he comes out with will be the same.

Shadow is what? 67$ monthly? I just got some spam in my inbox today claiming they already have 3000 members. So that's over 200K a month they bank for doing nothing and i doubt this software requires nearly that much to maintain.

I can see how this system can work, but think i'll pass on this one. Finding winning markets really is not that hard and you don't need to pay a monthly fee to do so nor spam the "big 3" with ads in order to find them.

KGoods

I've enjoyed reading this thread... so much so that I re-signed up for the Warrior Forum just to be able to post a reply.

I bought GS yesterday and got through all of the printed material last night and this morning. I have not seen the videos yet. I also spent quite a bit of time with the software last night and created a couple handfuls of campaigns. I have been using PPC off and on for a couple years with limited success (which is better than no success I guess) e.g. I've never had a better than 2k (net) month and most of my campaigns seem to fizzle out after a few months no matter how much CPR I do on them. I have never found the "holy grail" of those elusive campaigns that seem to just make money forever without much babysitting. Competition is getting tougher and tougher all the time and then you have the occasional newbies that jump in and throw everything out of whack for a time. I've never had any problems defending against newbies but I fully realize that there are masters out there that know a few things I don't know. YET!

I normally purchase most PPC and Adwords related products that hit the market just in case I missed something along my journey. Some have helped... some not so much... and some that didn't really help my bottom line but did alert me to methods that others were/would be using (Google snatch, Day job Killer) that allowed me to adjust and protect my successful campaigns. I might add that these products did also give me excellent ideas for my own software.

My take on Google Shadow? Interesting. Will I use it? Not to the point that I will continue my membership. However, I won't return it either. The way I look at it is this. I was curious enough to purchase just to see what another successful PPC mongrel was using to make money with PPC. And now that I have read it I can't very well erase it from my memory banks can I? Even though I doubt I will use this exact method, it did give me some ideas about future techniques I will no doubt put into place. As far as the software goes... I'm a programmer so I wrote something very similar last summer (I also wrote my own version of a PPC spy type program that I use a lot). Took me all of a couple weeks spare time and I use both programs all the time.

VJack: I believe it was you that asked the question as to why would a successful PPC-er give away his secrets and increase his competition at the same time? I find this a very healthy attitude to have when considering the purchase of a IM related product. I've always asked myself the same question. Why on earth would this guy come out the closet and expose not only himself but the method he uses to make 100k+ a month?

On top of what Jim said (attrition), I'd like to add this for consideration. I can only speculate on a few things but there are two reasons I'm sure about. First, Tim is going to get a pretty good bonus check this month. This is on top of what he's already doing with PPC. Maybe he has his eye on a new luxury car or boat? This one payday will buy him one --- cash! As you probably know, humans (especially Americans) tend to live just inside their means, so even though Tim is making bank every month I'm sure the extra cash will come in handy.

My number two reason (just a guess, but an educated one), is that you have to remember that Tim has been doing this for a while. Even though I'm sure he revealed "all" in his report , I'm also sure there's tons of details left out. If I hadn't been doing PPC for some time I'm sure I would have problems understanding some of the points in the report. And to be honest, this report created as many questions for me than it answered. This is where I found value in the product. Luckily I do have the experience to reason though some of the questions and answer them for myself. However, to be fair, for the newbie there are several resources (ebooks and videos) included with the report that cover the more basic stuff.

Also... and listen, this is the biggie... Tim has already tried 1,000's of campaigns and I'm sure he has kept track of all the losers so he doesn't go down those roads again. I'm sure he could reason though them and find patterns of why a particular campaign works while another didn't. He then could have included this very valuable information. But no, he's going to leave that exercise up to the purchasers.

So, in essence, the big winner here, as always, is Google. Even with attrition there will still be many people using this system. They will all be finding the same losers and buying those same clicks to find those losers. These are the losers that Tim has already found and tossed out the window. Now it's possible due to Tim's methods that he missed a couple that one might get lucky with, but basing a business model on luck is something I don't have the b*lls for.

So are you really competition to Tim? Hardly.

Ok.. so now imagine that you've happened across a winner that Tim is already working. Do you think for one minute that in the years that Tim has been doing this he hasn't figured out a way to protect his best campaigns? If nothing else, all you have to do to kill your competition in PPC is to outbid them until they bleed to death. Happens every day. Or since you know what time of day and what days of the week the majority sales come in (you are tracking right?), adjust your campaigns to only show during those times and let the others have the droppings during the unproductive times. Point is, there are several ways to deal with competition if you have the resources that Tim has. I’m not talking just cash reserves, I’m talking also, and probably more importantly, about experience.

Newbies can lose a lot of money getting into p*ssing contests with the "big boys". Can you tell I've been p*ssed on more than a few times? This is something you can't teach how to avoid in a book... you actually have to get your hands dirty before it really sinks in. This is a business and its a business that is especially cut-throat.

That's why its not my primary business. If you really want to succeed in PPC here's my advice. You have to "live" it. Breathe it. Be it. You need to get your hands on anything at all written for it. Starting with Google’s tutorials! It's simply amazing to me how people who have been using Adwords will ask me the most rudimentary questions. My first question is, "have you read the help files on Google's site?" I usually get a response something like, "They have help files?"

After that move on to Perry's stuff and all of Chris's stuff, all of X's stuff, Commission Blueprint, all of anything you can find. Period. I’m sure I’ve left out several important works (I don’t feel like getting lost in my library right now) but a quick Google search will fill in the blanks.

Sorry this turned into such a rant (although I think I’m still well under Jim’s word count - big smiles), but PPC was one of my passions a while back and I’m still very interested in getting it to the next level which is why I still buy every product on the market relating to it.

To sum up. If you want to do PPC, buy and read Google Shadow, buy and watch Commission Blueprint, buy and read Google Adwords, buy and read DJK, buy and read Google Snatch, buy and read all of Perry Marshall’s stuff, buy and read everything you can get your hands on related to PPC, but first, for God’s sake, read the Google Adwords help files.

Then get ready for the ride of your life!!!

Kind regards,
Ken

– and seriously Jim, thanks for the post, it was great!

my_addict_mind

i just can't understand how this product is revolutionary when 99% of its ideas were culled from some products.

the ebook is very basic adwords. there are a lot of free adwords ebook out there.

and the advice on no keyword research, just promote any product, without any due diligence, and hope some of it become profitable, to me that stinks.

because you will be losing a lot of money or worst you won't be able to recover

if my math tells me i am losing, it is hard for me to be positive about it. i believe no amount of positive or esoteric forces will overturn a mathematical fact. law of gravity will always be there. try jumping off the building with a positive attitude and see where you land. my god, i am just talking here basic income and expense for a business model and all i see is negative result, though all theoretical. i wouldn't spend my time trying to prove wrong the mathematical facts. why should i. there are many internet business models out there which i think are more feasible. for googleshadow, i am not convinced. this is the type of product where many newbies and not so newbies will try and eventually lose money from it.

before you go into any business, you do your due diligence. if after your due diligence, you find it feasible to embark on that business, then you put all your efforts into it, be positive about its potentials, then success will naturally be just beside you. it is not the other way around. when there are red flags all over, you just scrap the whole idea and move on, find another business model. and that is what i am doing. i am letting this pass by as i don't believe in it.

and many will tell, 98% will fail, only 1 or 2% will succeed. why is that? why is it that many here are making it so complicated? because of the so many misinformation in the IM world many are falling prey to these schemes which claim to make you money when the foundational pillar it is standing on is on soft ground. many here are in the business of selling wsos nothing more. but they are selling their wares on unproven methods, or just pure lucky streak. the victimized newbies grab these products based on the promises or the copywriting prowess of the sales page. but if you look inside the product, it is too hollow. visit the wso forums. 90% are hollow products, some are really excellent wsos i admit but these are few. this is why the mortality rate in IM is high because of this misinformation. google shadow is one of these i would say very hollow, at best very shallow, overpriced products. it should be renamed "google hollow" or "google shallow". take your pick.

ebuyer123

As per above statement, is that including President Obama, or just Tim alone??

Vjack

Ken - Thanks for the very insightful and candid review. Concerning attrition, I believe that increased competition and bid prices throughout AWs offers the answer. The opposite of attrition is occurring on all fronts.

Anyone considering GS should read your post several times.

And professorkelp slipped in a douse. Brian Owens seems like a very forthright and honest guy and comes right out with:

"Google Shadow however, takes the cake for worst product release of 2009 so far in my honest review." DON’T BUY THIS. IT’S THE WORST EBOOK I’VE EVER READ IN MY LIFE! - steaming pile of garbagge."

Get the video and review link from professorkelp's post.

Jim -

You've demonstrated a firm grasp on internet marketing and that you've achieved great success in your business and I commend you for that. You've reached a level of understanding about your life that comforts you and I commend you for that too.

However you are speaking to me and this thread from presumption - with an audacity as if your success has credentialed you to know and lecture my mind set and inner psychology. I found your post to be condescending and arrogant and could be described like - you've gathered us lost marketing souls, walked to the hilltop and proceeded to grace the flock below with enlightenment and wisdom. My takeaway is that you've got some ego issues to work out ... until then, you'll be back proclaiming that I just don't get it.

And let's be frank. Tim is the top affiliate who puts money in your pocket and you are selling the hell out of his product. Acting on your advice, we should screw our heads on to your specifications and get the credit card out. But there are people like me in this thread who are only interested in making a decision to buy or pass. And from what I've seen, I'm gone as this looks like another IM Course con job.

Sorry for the rant as I also know that Jim Morris is a great guy who goes beyond the norm to help his members.

my_addict_mind

i also admire jim morris and the services he provides in nichebot. excellent site. but i do think this is one of the few endorsements which i believe he should rethink his position.

it is easier said than done to use psychology, mental powers, nlp, etc. but if the product is glaringly crappy, it will back fire to you.

bidmarket

so are there any other products in which you can do ppc without having your own website that are worthwhile?

If so, how do they compare to shadow?

thank you
bid

A Bary

I don't know, but I think the days of direct linking is over,if you read Perry Marshall's defentive guide in the new edition, you'll get it, may be Marshall was the last one saying that direct linking may work,but now,he admitted that it's not acceptable be Google any more, so save your time and money,and believe me,I thought always it's hard to think about building landing pages, but believe me,when I started to work, I found it to be easier than I always thought, a simple landing page that takes a couple hours of work make a huge difference in your quality score and click costs, just take care of small tricky details and you'll be fine:

-Always place a link for privacy policy and contact us pages,
-Pay attention for the old school tags (meta tags, ttle tags, h1,h2,h3,...etc)
again, don't assume this is difficult and time consuming, if you put a model for yourself it will be doable in a reasonable amount of time..

You may think this is silly, but as all of us know, big G is going silly sometimes, and put value on things you may not notice...

Cheers,
Ahmed

Kuma

Good and honest review by Brian - reflecting exactly my thoughts.

The sad fact is that after the fabulous DJK (okay life was still in good order then) we are seeing a lot of mediocre products from Chris these days (Assassin, Nemesis) and in addition to that they now want us to pay a monthly fee for that (Look for the agent who is offering you a "discount" - LOL- this shows the mentality).

I think also RJ is losing credibility when promoting this product (he has done similar things in the past what I did not expect from him)- maybe he is on the verge of becoming a ´loser´himself ??? Who knows

But the RJ is not the only one of the "gurus" supporting any kind of product as long as they can make a commission. My "unsubscribe" activities have increased a lot already- since then I can focus much more on the necessary long-term IM activities - making myself more independent from the hype and all "time-sensitive" offers....

UKTim29

The thing is some people (affiliates) are saying it's the next best thing since sliced bread, this is their business, the same with Chris, this ebook is just another business.

I've not bought it but also read the BHW forum and have enough "insight" into this eBook to know if it's any good or not.

He basically says 9 out of 10 campaigns you start after reading this ebook expect not to work but use the ones that do. So he's basically saying it's trial and error! When I first started out ppc 9 out of 10 of my campaigns didn't work. That was with basic ppc knowledge and expermenting. Thats the same with most other people who start ppc, Therefore what does this ebook actually tell you that you couldn't already find out with a basic knowledge of ppc????

James Schramko

I read the Google statement above to mean that they do not want a domain to automatically re-direct.

I think you are confusing re-directs with what Tim calls direct linking.

As long as your display URL and the END destination URL are the same then it is fine. It is working fine.

SarahMcHarry

I've bought this product and I'm also fairly experienced with Google PPC. The tragedy is that Tim makes out that direct linking is just a matter of quantity rather than quality. OK, you may find a few winners after putting up 1,000s of ads but you will have lost a lot of money in the process. If you do it the way it's taught in the ebook Google will slap most of your campaigns and you will end up demoralised and broke.

The Google Shadow forum is already littered with newbies wailing about how to do it. I really feel their pain.

The truth is that you can do direct linking with Google, BUT you have to choose an offer that has a landing page (and supporting website) that will pass G's quality criteria, AND you have to do keyword research so that your ads and keywords are optimized to the landing page. This is the opposite of what is taught in Google Shadow.

It's not good enough.

Sarah

ben565

Ok,but that means unless you are the highest bidder then your ad will not show,so you will be paying so much per click just to get your ad shown as google does not allow the same url to show up more than once at the same time.

jbirdmanjr

hey, whats iframing?

ebuyer123

Not sure it is pain or gain for them, but for sure GoogleShadow is not a 'One-Size-Fit-All' I.M biz tool that can be well integrated into everybody's existing business model.

IMO, it's no doubt about that most of those newbies will become parts of the google graveyard statistics...


ebuyer123

Berkinb

Greetings,

I bought Googleshadow four days ago. I can not comment on the software since I did not use it. I didn't use it because the PDF file which was supposed to teach me the system was utterly and totally useless in my opinion. This kind of marketing program may work for some people who have the budget to support it; however, you definitely do not need to pay $67 a month for it. For creating and managing multiple adgroups, you can easily use Adword's own editor, which I believe basically does what this software does.

So, just my two cents... and your $67