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How can you tell results from someone else's copy?

by Tom Sheltraw
12 replies
I've heard real pros say some copy sells and some doesn't, I know, Dah! But how do you tell if copy is good or not before it becomes a legend in copywriting?

I look at everything with a critical eye and wonder if it pulls or not. Even copy from the great ones often leave me wonder what they were thinking or what's wrong with my thinking?

So, do you have any thought on what looks good and will pull responses?

Thanks,

Tom

PS. I'm always looking at email to see what could work. Problem is, I will often pass on an email because the Subject Line is lame, even when it's from a big name. Do we just wing it and test our own ideas or can we have an advantage by observing?
#copy #else’s #results
  • Profile picture of the author Tom Sheltraw
    Strange reply nmullett. I stopped opening SPAM in the 50's!

    You're profile has more views then most of my postings! I think everyones on to you!
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      The simple answer is you can't really tell if sales copy is converting and how well it's converting unless you have all the stats at your disposal.

      Even if someone tells you "this sales letter converted at 10.4% that doesn't mean the overall strategy is highly profitable or effective.

      Often a huge percentage of profits are made on immediate upsells, back end sales etc and some sales letters will convert prospects who are better for those back end sales.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Bogowski
        I agree with Andrew.

        There is no real way of knowing this without having all the data.

        However, I feel you can make a good educated guess as to wether or not the copy coverts at all. Read through it and if it entices you to buy theres a good chance its enticing others to buy as well.

        Hope this helps
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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich View Post

          you can make a good educated guess as to wether or not the copy coverts at all. Read through it and if it entices you to buy theres a good chance its enticing others to buy as well.
          Yes this will give you an idea.

          I can tell you as a professional copywriter though that some of the copy that performs extremely well you would never pick.

          Message to market match is one of the biggest keys to getting good conversions from your sales copy.

          In other words matching your sales message perfectly to the actual prospects who are visiting the sales letter.

          And the biggest key of all to conversion is the quality of the prospect and generally speaking that has nothing to do with the sales letter.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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          Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
            If you want to know how well a page is converting, just send a few thousand visitors there as an affiliate and you should get your answer (assuming they have an affiliate program).
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            https://www.jasonmoffatt.com
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            • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
              Hi Tom,

              The real answer to know if you have a good ad is to know your customer.

              If you hang out in the forums they do and actually get into the mind of the person you are trying to sell to, what you will find is when you look at an ad for that market you will just know.

              You will say "wow, this is great" someone in this market will want this or you will say no way someone with this problem will buy from this bs letter.

              You need to become the customer you want to sell to.

              Visit the websites they visit. Read the books and magazines they read. Study the forums that your intended market frquents. Read every thread. Try to answer the questions people ask in post. When you are able to answer the questions in the forum you are inside your customers head.

              Then when you look at an ad you will just know!

              So I guess how you know if it will sell comes down to walking in your customers footsteps. You did your homework and you know what your customer wants.

              In the end it comes down to testing to see if you really knew what your customer wants.

              Terry
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              • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
                The only way to tell is if you either gain access to their stats or send traffic as an affiliate.

                Even then, it takes a while to sort of profitable keywords and so on.

                So in other words - there's no real way to tell.

                Over time, though, once you're quite familiar with a market and what makes it "tick" - you'll know right away whether or not an offer is profitable or not just from a quick glance.

                Again, this would be the result of driving thousands upon thousands of visitors across many different offers and so on to develop this sort of "knowing", and it's completely different from one market to the next, one customer-profile to the next.

                In some niches, short copy and ecommerce-style sales processes are key.

                In others, it's all about the proof.

                And in others, it's about creating emotion, etc.

                Every market is a different animal because people are buying for a complex set of differing reasons.

                Sorry for the vague answer, but - there's really no way to tell.

                -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Henshaw
      Hi Tom,

      I've heard real pros say some copy sells and some doesn't, I know, Dah! But how do you tell if copy is good or not before it becomes a legend in copywriting?

      I look at everything with a critical eye and wonder if it pulls or not. Even copy from the great ones often leave me wonder what they were thinking or what's wrong with my thinking?
      I'm sorry if I'm way off beam here Tom, but are you tracking your copy and evaluating what does and what does not get you the best results?

      I am of course referring to sales copy, if you are asking about copywriting in general, then please ignore the above comment.

      -------

      nmullett,

      hello i was a very hard worker but now i relax have a look how you can relax too
      You have 54 posts to your credit. I hope that they are not all of this extremely low calibre - I don't know what you are inferring in the quote above.

      If posting non relevant comments in the hope of generating business is your game, then I am sorry, but in my opinion, you are a member of the wrong forum.

      Regards,
      Jeff Henshaw.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Sheltraw
    Originally Posted by Tom Sheltraw View Post

    I've heard real pros say some copy sells and some doesn't, I know, Dah! But how do you tell if copy is good or not before it becomes a legend in copywriting?

    I look at everything with a critical eye and wonder if it pulls or not. Even copy from the great ones often leave me wonder what they were thinking or what's wrong with my thinking?

    So, do you have any thought on what looks good and will pull responses?

    Thanks,

    Tom

    PS. I'm always looking at email to see what could work. Problem is, I will often pass on an email because the Subject Line is lame, even when it's from a big name. Do we just wing it and test our own ideas or can we have an advantage by observing?
    Thanks for the great replies. With each post I make I realize how important it is to make the question perfectly clear for all that will read it.

    My question centered around reading emails and sales copy from other IM'ers especially the Great Ones. I've received autoresponder emails from a few of the Great Ones in this forum and honesly wondered if that email could sell heaters in the Arctic? But, maybe I'm missing something!

    That was my point and many of you answered that point very well.

    Thank you,

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author John Ritz
      As mentioned, there's no foolproof way of knowing, but there are a lot of signs you can pull up.

      Alexa gives some indication of traffic, and traffic trends. The Wayback machine can show you how often (and how much) they changed their salesletter over time (cause a bad one won't be up for long), you can spy on their PPC campaigns. They can't afford to pay $3 a click for long unless those clicks ultimately convert (and it may be deep in their marketing funnel when it DOES ultimately give them a positive ROI).

      Speaking of marketing funnels, one of the first things you want to to DO is get in their funnel. No better way to get intel. (And watch Alexa and a few other sites when they send out big promo emails--see what happens).

      Gosh, I could talk about lots of other strategies all day, but suffice it to say, you CAN get a pretty damn good idea how well they're doing with their sales, once you're able to paint a complete picture.

      Cheers,

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
        Originally Posted by John Ritz View Post

        As mentioned, there's no foolproof way of knowing, but there are a lot of signs you can pull up.

        Alexa gives some indication of traffic, and traffic trends. The Wayback machine can show you how often (and how much) they changed their salesletter over time (cause a bad one won't be up for long), you can spy on their PPC campaigns. They can't afford to pay $3 a click for long unless those clicks ultimately convert (and it may be deep in their marketing funnel when it DOES ultimately give them a positive ROI).

        Speaking of marketing funnels, one of the first things you want to to DO is get in their funnel. No better way to get intel. (And watch Alexa and a few other sites when they send out big promo emails--see what happens).

        Gosh, I could talk about lots of other strategies all day, but suffice it to say, you CAN get a pretty damn good idea how well they're doing with their sales, once you're able to paint a complete picture.

        Cheers,

        John

        Very sneaky John. I like it.
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