WTF 1.00 For 500 Words, Are You Serious?

[pheonix44]

I swear I fail to see the logic in every part of this "get cheap writers" concept. Even if the rare occasion proves that it's possible. It's just a miserable failure from the writer's perspective as well as the publisher. We are - for the most part - in the content production business online. It's either got to be killer copy, or compelling content, yes? So let me beg this question; if you were waging war, would you go out and pay your generals a pittance, or would you offer your minions what you think they are worth? Because if you are in for saving money at the top, by the end of the war the enemy has still broken the ranks, raped all your women, and stolen your gold.

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes though a writer just wants to get their feet wet and perfect his or her skill. Ultimately they may have a plan to start their own service and use their previous writing as social proof to charge more.

[peter gibson]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes though a writer just wants to get their feet wet and perfect his or her skill. Ultimately they may have a plan to start their own service and use their previous writing as social proof to charge more.

Oh for sure, there has to be a jumping off point. We all must begin somewhere, and most of us began extremely cheap. I didn't start making serious money online, I started by making ****e money and worked through the ranks.

The thing with ghost writing is this; if you have skills - and I can see that you do - it shouldn't take you much more than a "once through" to get up to a decent and respectable asking price. It's all gold after that. Right now I pay up to 20.00 per 500 words and even that price I find to be insulting, considering the quality I get from my writers.

And while we are talking about it, pay close attention to whomever (perhaps Bev?) mentioned that most webmasters NOT involved in the "online money making" niche already expect to pay significantly more than you see on these happy-crappy freelancer sites. For you Phoenix, it may not only be about getting your feet wet, also it may be worth it for you to learn how to effectively reach that audience - with an effective marketing strategy. This could save you a few dozen underpaid jobs at least. There are plenty of people here on Warrior that can help you in that area.

You are definitely on the right track. Using what you complete now as social proof that you have skills - this is what is required in the business of writing. But be careful not to sell yourself too short or waste too much time "proving" yourself. There are writers out here with very negligible skills making good money just because they know how to advertise.

[pheonix44]

I started by making ****e money and worked through the ranks.

There are writers out here with very negligible skills making good money just because they know how to advertise.

I know this first hand. There is definitely a style I use for search engine fodder and other types of articles, but even my search engine fodder is still readable and aimed at helping the reader solve a problem. I have already set up a site and done some keyword research to begin building backlinks. You are absolutely right, the key to getting at least 0.10 a word is to attract those people not in the IM niche or make money niche. People who are not familiar with this or who have never heard of eza usually expect to pay at least 0.25 per word for a well researched informative article. That is the market I untimately hope to target

[zerofill]

You'll find the same thing with coding...I used to do PHP on a couple freelance sites. People would want like a custom billing platform tailored to their business for $100.00 LOL

I don't write code for anyone anymore but for my own purposes and barely do that anymore cause I just don't care to do it...

But I won't even write:

<?php
echo "Kiss my a--";
?>

for $100...I'll do it for free when I feel like it...lol..but not on a freelance site.

Probably should have said:

class kiss_my extends a--

lol...sorry the PHP guys will get my humor...

[peter gibson]

Originally Posted by zerofill

You'll find the same thing with coding...I used to do PHP on a couple freelance sites. People would want like a custom billing platform tailored to their business for $100.00 LOL

I don't write code for anyone anymore but for my own purposes and barely do that anymore cause I just don't care to do it...

But I won't even write:

<?php
echo "Kiss my a--";
?>

for $100...I'll do it for free when I feel like it...lol..but not on a freelance site.

Probably should have said:

class kiss_my extends a--

lol...sorry the PHP guys will get my humor...

Now see this, this right here, this is proper geek humor. lmfrikinao!!!

[pheonix44]

I don't get it.

[peter gibson]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

I don't get it.

LOL!!

It's coding humor and stems from the mind of someone not writing for a living - or more to the point - a mind that sees things differently from the rest of our species. I'll leave it at that.

[charlesburke]

Robin,

A good friend of mine recently left his IT managerial position and started up a writing service. It was truly slow going at first, but he persevered and absolutely refused all lowball jobs. He said it took him about 18 or 20 bids on elance before he got his first job, but it was at a decent rate because he had good samples and he detailed in his response just why his price was justified.

He also posted an ad on Craigslist - yep, for just one city - and started getting a trickle of good paying jobs from that. He lives outside the US, so he didn't try to get clever by spamming with multiple ads. He just did it straight, kept that one ad going, and the real buyers started finding him.

He's now got a gradually growing list of repeat customers (every one of whom is willing to pay reasonable rates). The best part is, although he didn't work much for the first few weeks, never once has he done a Google-bait job. Of course he'll slowly put his prices up, but he didn't ever feel compelled to start out at slave rates. He knew his value, and he stuck with it.

Judging from your writing, I feel confident that you can do at least as well. Here's to your great success as a writer - and as a business person.

Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
Charles

Originally Posted by pheonix44

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes though a writer just wants to get their feet wet and perfect his or her skill. Ultimately they may have a plan to start their own service and use their previous writing as social proof to charge more.

[hangtimenino]

I totally understand how you feel. I even saw people paying .08$ for data mining. I mean its a no brainer assignment, but it takes time.

[Bev Clement]

My Disclaimer first, I have no problem with people who decide they want to go down the cheap route of selling articles. Cheap and expensive live happily together in every form of business, except for article writers in the mind of cheap IMers.

Let's get some of the myths and truths about writing.

Why do so many article writers get told they are not worth more for the hours they spend researching and writing?

There are a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons is the buyer doesn't want to share their profits. It comes down to the bottom line, greed.

They will pay peanuts to a writer, yet sell high to the newbie using the hype of how they can make millions while asleep etc.

Fact: Someone was asked to write and was paid $200 for the work. It was good quality writing, and I know the person who wrote really well.

The makerter who commissioned the work sold the writing as a WSO, they had a limited the numbers being sold, and within a few days was sold out.

Let's assume for a moment they paid for graphics and a sales page, maybe it cost them $1,000. However, they sold for over $10,000 which was easy to work out by the number of copies they sold for the price they sold.

They told the writer they couldn't afford to pay them anything more for the work, they even asked them to drop their rates.

You work out the reason for it.

That is happening in IM all the time.

People assume you have to go cheap and then work up the ladder, it rarely happens.

Imagine if you will, a person wants to open a 5 star restaurant, do you listen to the competition or those who are buyers saying, you don't have a portfolio, nobody knows you so start with a fast food restaurant, and then move up. It is crazy to even suggest that, because how many fast food owners go on to have 5 star restaurant.

The biggest problem facing new writers is being told they have to start low, with the hope they won't learn the truth and move onto higher paid work.

Who is giving the advice to these writers, normally buyers who only want cheap, and know if the opposite advice or truth is given, they will have to pay more. But, many of those who want cheap, have no idea what a good article is.

This is the biggest problem writers have, they listen to the wrong advice and then don't believe there is more around.

Does a 5 star restaurant take advice from McD's in how they price their food, lay the restaurant out etc? Does a 5 star restaurant say McD's only charges xxx so I can't charge anymore because nobody will buy?

Yet writers are doing to all the time.

The buyer are totally different as well, and the same is true in all niches. Imagine buying a $10 watch and say you can't ever sell a Rolex because nobody will buy. Chalk and cheese. Different markets, will bring in different incomes.

[michellegreen]

Very interesting discussion guys. I recently started working as a writer and two weeks ago decided to give in the full time job to do this full time because of the workload I found myself having to deal with.

I have chosen to only write about specific topics because I end up overwhelmed with too much work otherwise, and I personally like to write only about topics I am interested in. Experience also tells me that writing about topics I am not interested in is just plain boring!

Also, if somebody wants a sample, they get the exact same sample (from the same niche) that the last buyer received from me. These samples are also posted on my website (well, some of them are - I am soon to put the rest in there), so if they try to go and post it elsewhere, it will become pretty obvious that they have posted duplicate content, although they can go and rewrite it first. If they choose to do that then I really don't care - it was no extra work on my part and karma will do the rest.

I get a lot of my work through elance, and yes I was one of those "start cheap" types of people although I wouldn't have even rolled over in bed, let alone gotten out of bed for $1, but within a day or two of getting my first job, I rapidly put my prices up - I had to because the amount of job offers I received were just getting ridiculous! I now earn in a day more than I ever earned in my reasonably well-paid full time job in a day.

So what I don't get, is that if some writers continue to keep their prices low, why is that?? Surely if they're anything worth writing about (writing joke there!), then they will also put up their prices?? That's kind of a clue I guess. If you see they've done a lot of work on the bidding sites but they're still prepared to work for $1 for 500 words, then as an IMer I'd run - fast!

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I haven't had any work done that cheaply but I did get some excellent articles done for $2 per 400-500 words. I was shocked at the quality and told the person so. I don't believe he's charging that price now

No, I can imagine.

There's a sort of analogy here between article-writing and copywriting, actually: just as it's theoretically possible to find a very promising copywriter right at the start of his career, get fantastically lucky and get a $5,000 job done for $500 by someone who's "on the way up", you might manage to find an article-writer in a similar position, who has writing skills but no commercial/marketing experience and has made the big mistake of assuming that a good way in to the market is to start at the lowest prices available, just in order to "build a portfolio".

[Eric Lorence]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises
I haven't had any work done that cheaply but I did get some excellent articles done for $2 per 400-500 words. I was shocked at the quality and told the person so. I don't believe he's charging that price now...

You may get the quality, but not exclusive rights...

How many times have these articles been sold B4 you? Were they just shot thru a spinner, fixed up a bit then sold to you?

Are they submittable to EZA?

Yes you can sell them for that cheap if you intend to resell them multiple times.

WTF 1.00 For 500 Words, Are You Serious?

As far as "lowballers", get in the habit of dismissing them immediately.

Do not negotiate, and do not continue to communicate by email with them. They are a waste of your time.

Get in this habit, and spend the extra time you save on your best clients and you'll establish a quality customer base.

Let the "freebie seekers" and "slave traders" have each other.

[innovator]

$1 for 500 words, the result would be " une por fiev handred wrods" LOL. There's this another forum that senior members/mods/many post counts members take advantage of their reputation. They are demanding for a FREE REVIEW Copy of any service being offered for them to only give positive reviews in return. Even with services that is worth $$$ and done tediously for days. Those peeps are really pathetic taking advantage of other people.

[pheonix44]

I was led to believe I could not get more at first by I'm assuming a well meaning person, but I know I can get more and I soon will.

[Bev Clement]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

I was lead to believe I could not get more at first by I'm assuming a well meaning person, but I know I can get more and I soon will.

I assume this was a buyer/IMer who told you this rather than a writer.

[pheonix44]

I assume this was a buyer/IMer who told you this rather than a writer

Yeah it was from a buyer

[Bev Clement]

What I don't understand is the idea that these low rates are the going rates. Why do you think this, and who said they are the going rates?

Am I on a different internet to everybody else?

Am I the only person who sees sites with price lists of $1,000 for a 400 word article?

Am I the only person who sees people looking for high quality writers and saying that anything under $0.10 per word is too cheap?

Am I the only person who sees sites saying that any payment under $0.29 per word is too low?

Do I need to go on?

People say there is no work out there which pays higher rates, my question is where are you looking for work? Are you stuck with IM forums, elance, odesk, and the other freelancing sites?

Why aren't people getting higher priced buyers through their websites?

Why won't people stop taking advice from the wrong place and then complain about the income they are getting?

Fact: There is a shortage of writers. Not article writers, but content writers, ghost writers, and yet people stick with writing articles for cheap prices.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

[coolfineok]

ya, it is sad. Lot of peole are looking for asians who are ready to work for a cheap price.But quality of service provided is unacceptable.

[ken_p]

I think these days, it depends on where you are coming from. In cambodia, an average wage is somewhere from 1$ and a little bit more.

[Bev Clement]

Tina, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but let me give you a brief summary of what I have done.

I wrote an article for a website, and it wasn't an IMers site. I didn't know people got paid to write articles for websites.

I joined the WF as an affiliate marketer, when someone I worked with suggested it. Ghostwriting wasn't on my agenda, all I was interested in was improving my affiliate marketing.

I wrote articles here on the WF for $8 an article, and I didn't have any agenda at the time. I decided on a price, because a warrior gave me a suggestion of price, and then I did a business plan, and also using a pricing guide from my days in accountancy, I worked on how low I would go.

I was told to look at elance, but the prices were lower than the $8 I got here on the forum.

I didn't go looking for forums, because my decision was based on the ROI and to me it didn't and still doesn't make sense to spend most of my day hunting for work, which might or might not give me some low priced work.

The majority of what I do and have learnt, I did by trial and error. I was on the forum here, and saw the advice and decided not to accept it. I then talked to many other writers and what they told me proved I was right in my thinking.

Nearly everything I had said in this thread, I have said time and time again here on the forum, but people don't accept it, because it isn't the standard advice being given.

I have given the same advice to a number of writers who contacted me, afraid to ask on the forum for being shot down, and all of this was given away.

It was only when a number of people asked me to put it together in a course that I ran the course twice.

I didn't have any mentor who took me down the path I took. I made a decision to go against the crowd. I decided it didn't matter if I lose sales from here, because I have my exit plan. I decided to try and see what would happen if I went beyond what was being said.

I then decided to dig deep as to the advice being given and why it was given.

It is only recently as I was digging even deeper that I found out some amazing truths about what the real world of writing is about. Most confirmed what I had thought and tested myself.

[pheonix44]

Why aren't people getting higher priced buyers through their websites?

That is my untimate goal. I have began working on it, but until then I have no problem writing for the warriors here. They have given me enough money to get another business of mine started and I am thankful for that.

[ildarius]

Originally Posted by valerieSONORA

I went to rentacoder just to find a crazy ad, which I knew they'd be there.

This guy wants 50 original articles 400-750 words and the MAXIMUM bid is 50 dollars!! hahahaha

Rent A Coder - 50 Original Articles, Various Topics

Yeah good luck on that one. I don't find these ads offensive I find them hilarious. You know nobody is going to write these perfect articles for $1 or less for 450-700 words. Craziness. Insanity.

I was laughing too until I saw 4 bids, but the quality of those will be laughable too probably

[peter gibson]

Robin, I'm just wondering what subjects you are comfortable writing with - and what your specialties include. I'm asking because my main writer just had a bit of a personal issue (her husband - a good friend of mine - was in a car wreck ) so I'm looking for a temporary replacement.

Also as you likely know from my earlier posts, I am constantly adding to my site list and optimized quality content is a must for me. So I may be of a mind to give you steady work.

If you want, PM me or just post here. I would likely be looking for 10 or so articles in the next lil' bit, so shoot me a price for 10 k? Cheers!

[pheonix44]

Sorry to hear that, I hope he is okay.

[peter gibson]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

Sorry to hear that, I hope he is okay.

Actually he's had to have his entire left shoulder replaced. Bloody shame really - especially since he's a working musician (and a brilliant one as well, I might add). He's had 2 surgeries already.

Things like that always make me realize that it's a huge mistake taking anything for granted. His career is now pretty much shot for at least 6 months while he gets his arm back in working order. I'm definitely praying for them both. That is one super talented couple. I hate it when things like that happen to good people.

BTW I received your pm, and I'll be PM'in ya back directly. Cheers!

[pheonix44]

I agree, sometimes you can get so caught up in the IM world that you forget that there is a whole world out there.

[s4nt0s]

Ya most writers would probably hate me for posting this but, right now I only pay $2.00 per 400-500 article.

You probably think I would be getting some mediocre, broken English, poorly written article but, they are top quality,SEO'd, researched and pass copyscape 100%.

I believe the only reason I get away with paying so cheap is because my article writer lives in India. I know most people think if you outsource writers from India you will get poorly written, rehashed, below average content but I guess they're wrong.

The craziest part about it is, this guy has a Masters Degree in Journalism!

After I interviewed him and told him he was hired, he must of thanked me 10 times! He acted like I just saved his life! He was very very thankful. I just couldn't understand why he could be so happy over 2.00$ per article?

Either way, as long as he is happy with the pricing, I am happy with the pricing. If he ever asked me for a raise I would give it to him in a heart beat. I actually plan on doing this when I make enough money but until then he enjoys writing for $2.00 per article.

I'm not sure if our currency is worth that much more in the U.S than India or if this guy just loves writing so much, he does it for rock bottom prices.

Anyone from India want to chime in? Is 2.00$ U.S considered good money over there or are some people just crazy? I'm very curious to know ...

[pheonix44]

I'm not sure if our currency is worth that much more in the U.S than India or if this guy just loves writing so much, he does it for rock bottom prices.

I have no clue what the rate is, but I know that in some places 10.00 a week will pay the rent or feed a family of ten for a month.

[sbucciarel]

Unfortunately, that is what outsourcing has done to the writing market as well as web design and graphic design. I made my living on Elance for quite awhile but got tired of trying to compete with graphic designers bidding $50 for a corporate identity package or brochure. Writers on Elance were in even worse shape. They were being offered next to nothing for writing original content. Many of them quit, as did I.

[pheonix44]

that is what outsourcing has done to the writing market as well as web design and graphic design.

The only way I see that you could get some real pay for your services is to go through the work of building your own site catering to people outside the IM niche. You can then build up a list of steady clients and credibility. If you stick to the IM niche you will constantly be in competition with people who will do work for a lower price on a regular basis not just temporarily.

[Warrior Markets]

This has been a really good discussion, more so because both sides have been represented.

Taking the original point into consideration, I agree that $1 for 500 words is almost laughable for most of us living in the UK/USA etc. However, if we consider other factors, we can see what this really means.

Someone charging $1 for 500 words, isn't really charging $1 for 500 words, but for the time it takes him/her to research, write and edit 500 words. Now, say, that time equates to 1 hour. This means, in effect, the pay is a dollar an hour.

This, again, is derisory for most of us, but for some this is a pretty good wage. That deals with the monetary side of it.

Now, the question about quality comes into play.

Firstly, I do believe that it is possible for someone from a non-English speaking country to be able to write quality articles, but this is rare. Also, market forces almost dictate that, like their Western counterparts, these writers would/should raise their prices to match the higher earning writers.

Secondly, I think Tommy hit the nail on the head: some people are not after quality, but just content for content's sake; or, rather, for Google's sake. This renders quality a moot point as far as they're concerned.

Thirdly, a lot of webmasters set the threshold for quality very low; thus, anything semi-decent becomes "quality", which means those who are offering real quality find it difficult to justify their higher prices.

Ultimately, this means that the quality writers have to find webmasters who are a) knowledgeable enough to identify quality writing; b) want content for their readers - not for Google; and c) are willing to pay decent money for it.

-WM

[innovator]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

Fact: There is a shortage of writers. Not article writers, but content writers, ghost writers, and yet people stick with writing articles for cheap prices.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

I totally agree, it is so hard to find decent writers and yet the rate were simply pathetic. Writers are totally in need not only by IMers.

Quality content should have a quality price as well. No matter where you're from, the price should always be reasonable. Even though you're from Asia or other part of the globe where $1 = xx or sometimes xxx, rates should always be the internet rate which means USD is always the currency not the equivalent of it to a country's currency.

[Mac the Knife]

Phoenix, I feel your pain...I was there once. For one thing, you are writing HERE for $4 for 500 words..starting there, it will be hard to get to $10 or more per 500 words. You might rethink that. Any who tells you can't get $10-$15 per 500 words from Internet Marketers...is wrong. It is ALL about value, quality, communication, service...period.

Almost all of the freelance sites can give you business on YOUR terms...I have had folks post for projects at $3 per 500 words, and turn right around and hire me for $12. If you are a good writer, put those skills to work in your proposal! Show them why you are worth it! Listen, if I am bidding for a job on health or fitness, I tell them to call me...if they want results, they are going to have to pay, and I am the person that can do the job. Once they call me, they are sold. Many writers and IM'ers hide behind their computers, but if you want to get what you are worth, you have to ask for it, but you ALSO have to deliver on the goods.

Finally, once your pipeline is full of orders, raise your prices. You will find some who won't return, but many will. I am about to raise my prices AGAIN because I would rather have someone choose not to hire me then be turned away...that leaves a bad taste in their mouth. Those that think I am too expensive MAY choose to hire me when their projects are producing more and they are looking for a higher quality writer, but even if they don't, it will be THEIR choice, not mine.

Anyways, good luck, and DO NOT worry about the low end market...it only exists if you hang around down there...climb the tree of success a bit...the air is clearer, and people's brains work a little better...

Mac the Knife

[Gabe77]

They're a dime a dozen. Just stick to your guns. Don't compete based on price alone.

[Gabe77]

Originally Posted by Warrior Markets

This has been a really good discussion, more so because both sides have been represented.

Taking the original point into consideration, I agree that $1 for 500 words is almost laughable for most of us living in the UK/USA etc. However, if we consider other factors, we can see what this really means.

Someone charging $1 for 500 words, isn't really charging $1 for 500 words, but for the time it takes him/her to research, write and edit 500 words. Now, say, that time equates to 1 hour. This means, in effect, the pay is a dollar an hour.

This, again, is derisory for most of us, but for some this is a pretty good wage. That deals with the monetary side of it.

Now, the question about quality comes into play.

Firstly, I do believe that it is possible for someone from a non-English speaking country to be able to write quality articles, but this is rare. Also, market forces almost dictate that, like their Western counterparts, these writers would/should raise their prices to match the higher earning writers.

Secondly, I think Tommy hit the nail on the head: some people are not after quality, but just content for content's sake; or, rather, for Google's sake. This renders quality a moot point as far as they're concerned.

Thirdly, a lot of webmasters set the threshold for quality very low; thus, anything semi-decent becomes "quality", which means those who are offering real quality find it difficult to justify their higher prices.

Ultimately, this means that the quality writers have to find webmasters who are a) knowledgeable enough to identify quality writing; b) want content for their readers - not for Google; and c) are willing to pay decent money for it.

-WM

I've seen a LOT of buyers from the US and the UK looking for writers on freelancing sites for $1 for a 400-500 word.

[pheonix44]

Phoenix, I feel your pain...I was there once. For one thing, you are writing HERE for $4 for 500 words..starting there, it will be hard to get to $10 or more per 500 words. You might rethink that. Any who tells you can't get $10-$15 per 500 words from Internet Marketers...is wrong. It is ALL about value, quality, communication, service...period.

I know I can get more and I will get more. I just appreciate the opportunity to break in here and help fellow warriors while I build my site outside of it. I can make money while I build my business and everyone I have worked with here I will still offer my services at a reduced price because I believe in loyalty. Maybe I am crazy or something, but before last month I did not have this opportunity and now I do. I appreciate all the good advice and I will put it to good use.

[Bev Clement]

The cost of living in India is cheap compared to the US and UK.

Yes, it is possible to find someone from India who writes brilliantly, but they are rare. I have worked with many Indians and you can tell when reading their work, English isn't their first language.

Another problem writers face from the world of IM is the term quality.

I have seen too many articles posted even here as samples, where the person has said it is quality, and many buyers have come back to say it is quality, and yet it isn't. It is a basic article. Many new article writers have no idea how to research and to write anything other than a basic article. Because of that, people are assuming this is the standard, and can't understand why someone would spend time researching and writing quality articles.

Quality in the world of IM isn't quality in the world of publishing.

[Harry Behrens]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

I know I can get more and I will get more. I just appreciate the opportunity to break in here and help fellow warriors while I build my site outside of it. I can make money while I build my business and everyone I have worked with here I will still offer my services at a reduced price because I believe in loyalty. Maybe I a crazy or something, but before last month I did not have this opportunity and now I do. I appreciate all the good advice and I will put it to good use.

You know, all around your posts I see this, "I know in time I will get more", "I'm just breaking in", "I'm establishing my..", "Starting out" ....

No, dude. You can get $10 NOW. NOW. NOW. RIGHT NOW. You are not starting out. You are in your business NOW. This is it.

If you have two good testimonials then you can ask for and get $10 RIGHT NOW. I mean like NOW this very second of this day. Do you see?

Once you have finished and got a testimonial for two jobs, from that point on if you are not getting $2 per 100 words the ONLY reason for that is that you're not asking for it. And that goes if you're on WF, on eLance, on GAF, anywhere.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but your situation is entirely self-inflicted.

Edit -> I should probably clarify why I'm being so direct: I got curious/annoyed with Michelle's frequent gushing about her results and signed up for the same coaching program she's on. On Monday I signed up for elance. Today I got awarded my first $10/article job. More are on the way. It's done. She was right. You really do just have to do it, and you get it. Who knew. (And I don't even have any plans to be an article writer, I just wanted to see for myself if it was true or not).

[pheonix44]

Quality in the world of IM isn't quality in the world of publishing

I can agree with this. The same article you write for the internet would not be considered good in an offline publication, but each one serves a different purpose. One may read like a mini research paper while the other is just meant to capture the attention of the reader long enough to get them to click on a resource box link to a webpage. Each one is designed to do different things. In the online world people are very impatient, in the offline world people may be more inclined to read a full article because they would not have picked up a publication if they did not intend to do so.

[Harry Behrens]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

I have seen too many articles posted even here as samples, where the person has said it is quality, and many buyers have come back to say it is quality, and yet it isn't. It is a basic article. Many new article writers have no idea how to research and to write anything other than a basic article. Because of that, people are assuming this is the standard, and can't understand why someone would spend time researching and writing quality articles.

Quality in the world of IM isn't quality in the world of publishing.

Bev, with respect because I see you do know what you're talking about, wanting to be a professional writer involved in publishing is an entirely different thing from wanting to sell articles, in order to produce a nice cashflow while learning the ins and outs of internet marketing. Entirely different things.

You're talking of different people with different goals, different points of view, different desires and different environments. Of course what is quality for one will be trash for the other. And yet both are right in their own worlds.

Now, if one talks of people who actually want to be professional writers involved in publishing but are trying to break into that by writing articles for marketers, then that sort of thing is definitely a problem, yes.

[Bev Clement]

Harry, I agree with you, but the point is you don't have to become a professional writer in publishing to have a higher quality article written.

The thing is many people who want content, want a higher quality, and they are checking to see what people write. Nothing to do with a publishing house. I was only using that as an example.

Harry, you are spot on. I haven't been to Elance in a very long time, but there are jobs which pay higher rates.

One thing I have found with article writers who only look at IM, they say I will increase my rates one day. The people I have dealt with (not in this thread) all have a common theme, they say if I charge $8 or $10 then I will lose buyers.

Well, that might be the case, but this is what I fail to understand. You have to remember I was an accountant in my offline job, so maybe I am looking at it from that point as well.

The people who I have talked to who are afraid to raise their prices, come back to me and ask how can they get work.

They miss the point completely.

It doesn't matter if they lose a potential client because they have put their prices up, because they are not getting clients with the prices they are charging.

To me it makes no sense. If a writer can't get work at $5 or whatever rate they charge, what difference does it make to try for a higher price?

But, it seems so many have bought into the myth that you have to charge low, and they sit there waiting and waiting for the client, who may or may not become a regular client.

[Mac the Knife]

Bev, totally agree. They are missing the fundamentals and therefore, focusing on pricing is not even their real issue...great point.

Bev, I would love to get a link to your services...I make money, but I am ALWAYS willing to learn new and more effective ways of doing things!

Mac

[Harry Behrens]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

One thing I have found with article writers who only look at IM, they say I will increase my rates one day. The people I have dealt with (not in this thread) all have a common theme, they say if I charge $8 or $10 then I will lose buyers.

You know, a week ago I would have disagreed... but now that I've seen it first hand? You are 100% correct.

It must be one of those "you have to go through it to really believe it" things.

[pheonix44]

One thing I have found with article writers who only look at IM, they say I will increase my rates one day. The people I have dealt with (not in this thread) all have a common theme, they say if I charge $8 or $10 then I will lose buyers

I used to feel this way especially when I first started, but I have also learned there is nothing wrong with offering a special price to people in this forum. The business I am building outside of it will enable me to get way more then this rate. It takes time to build it though and get it ranking, in the meantime I can make a few grand per month while it is getting off the ground. By the way I only made 900.00 a month at a crappy factory job I had earlier in the year. My first month doing this on this forum I made over twice that much even at this low rate.

[Harry Behrens]

Well I gotta give you props for knowing where you are and where you're going and not letting other people tell you different. That is definitely a good attitude.

For what it's worth, the secret to getting $10/article on elance?

- Make an elance profile
- Start bidding $10 per article
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid some more
- Bid a lot more
- Bid until you're sick of bidding
- Bid until the thought of bidding makes you nauseous
- Bid some more
- When you get a job you give them EXCELLENT service and ask for feedback
- Repeat from step 3
- Repeat all until you have enough regular customers to not bid any more

That's it, you want something, you put your hand out, prove you're worth it, and persist, and get it. No matter how many $1 jobs are floating around anywhere.

[pheonix44]

Make an elance profile
- Start bidding $10 per article
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid some more
- Bid a lot more
- Bid until you're sick of bidding
- Bid until the thought of bidding makes you nauseous
- Bid some more
- When you get a job you give them EXCELLENT service and ask for feedback
- Repeat from step 3
- Repeat all until you have enough regular customers to not bid any more

Bidding on elance is fine and all, but my ultimate goal is to build a business outside of either of these platforms.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

The people I have dealt with (not in this thread) all have a common theme, they say if I charge $8 or $10 then I will lose buyers.

Rational people think at the margin. It doesn't matter how many buyers you lose, if you still have more buyers than you can possibly service. Which is the norm, because the number of quality writers in this industry is vanishingly small.

Hmm. I like that. I may put that on my sales page.

[pheonix44]

Rational people think at the margin. It doesn't matter how many buyers you lose, if you still have more buyers than you can possibly service. Which is the norm, because the number of quality writers in this industry is vanishingly small.

It took me a while to understand this as well, there is definitely a difference is buyers who are willing to pay more, but as I mentioned earlier I still treat all of my customers the same. When I ultimately go for greener pastures I will not forget the people on this forum that allowed me to stay above water till I got there.