Legal Question about Paid training site.

[jestershaw]

I signed up to a paid training site. I am not going to mention the name. On the site they have video tutorials that are Youtube videos, each video comes from a different source on Youtube.

My question is this: Is it legal to be charging a fee to join a site that has youtube video tutorials on it? That being said, there is other good quality information on the site that doesn't look pirated in any way.

Thanks
Shawn

[rhelaine]

yep...you are not paying for the video you are paid for the guy compiling them.

[jestershaw]

Yes, but the question remains...he is making money off of the videos so the question is, is this ok with Youtube and the original author of the video? Do they need to get permission to do this?

[rhelaine]

i don't think so...

google doesn't pay people to link to their website..still they make money with that service.

As i said they do not make money with the video but with the indexing of it...

small but meaningful difference.

[jestershaw]

Thank you for your answer.

Shawn

Originally Posted by rhelaine

i don't think so...

google doesn't pay people to link to their website..still they make money with that service.

As i said they do not make money with the video but with the indexing of it...

small but meaningful difference.

[jestershaw]

There are about 20 videos and the 4 or 5 that I watched were all from different individuals and had been on Youtube for much longer than the training site has been around.

I am not sure if he got permission. I am not sure if I feel comfortable asking him/her.

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Do you know for sure the guy didn't create the videos or whether he has permission or not? Although, I believe if you post a video with an embed option, then you give permission just in posting at YouTube.

Tina G

[rhelaine]

Tina,

Yes but the guy links to it...he doesn't take it and host it somewhere else...

that would be illegal...but just giving a bunch of links basicaly is ok.

[jestershaw]

Is embedding the image the same as linking? That may sound like a stupid question but I am a bit confused on this discussion.

Originally Posted by rhelaine

Tina,

Yes but the guy links to it...he doesn't take it and host it somewhere else...

that would be illegal...but just giving a bunch of links basicaly is ok.

[rhelaine]

not 100% sure but i think so yes...would need someone that knows better to answer that.

[jestershaw]

Ok, thank you both for your time.

I think he is ok to do what he is doing then.

Shawn

[Pete223]

From YouTube's Terms Of Use:
"Content on the Website is provided to you AS IS for your information and personal use only and may not be downloaded, copied, modified, produced, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, broadcast, displayed, sold, licensed, translated, published, performed or otherwise exploited for any other purposes whatsoever without the prior written consent of the respective owners."

Don't think you can use YouTube videos in a paid membership area without consent!

Cheers, Pete

[jestershaw]

Thank you, I am not sure if I am going to do anything with this information but I just wanted to know. This is the only site I have signed up with that uses Youtube videos in the tutorial section.

Thanks

[jestershaw]

Ok, I did what I said I wasn't going to do and asked the site owner about the videos and they said that they don't need permission from youtube or the video producers. I showed them the text that Pete223 showed me and they still think there is not a problem.

What do you think about this?

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by jestershaw

Ok, I did what I said I wasn't going to do and asked the site owner about the videos and they said that they don't need permission from youtube or the video producers. I showed them the text that Pete223 showed me and they still think there is not a problem.

What do you think about this?

Shawn,

If they are supplimental to the course, i.e. the material is covered in another format, ebook, or PDF, etc, then perhaps they could be considered bonus material. Which may pass muster.

If those vids are the meat and potatos, take away the vids and course is meaningless, then it appears he is in violation of YT's TOS.

And indeed, if they are being used in an unethical way perhaps you need to reconsider the wisdom of joining such a site.

KJ

[Pete223]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I thought the whole purpose of allowing the videos to be embedded was to allow other people to use them? To me, it doesn't make sense to put that option there if not. Tina G

Embedding YouTube videos on public sites is pretty much what the embedding feature
is there for... but putting the videos in a members area where you charge people to have
access to them, IMHO, goes against the "...exploited for any other purposes without the prior written consent of the respective owners." of YouTube's TOS.

I'm curious at what YouTube would have to say... let me try, I'll report back.

Cheers, Pete

[jestershaw]

Thanks Pete!!!

[jestershaw]

Pete,

Did you get any further information about this? I know you were looking into it.

thanks
Shawn

Originally Posted by Pete223

Embedding YouTube videos on public sites is pretty much what the embedding feature
is there for... but putting the videos in a members area where you charge people to have
access to them, IMHO, goes against the "...exploited for any other purposes without the prior written consent of the respective owners." of YouTube's TOS.

I'm curious at what YouTube would have to say... let me try, I'll report back.

Cheers, Pete

[Pete223]

Originally Posted by jestershaw

Pete,

Did you get any further information about this? I know you were looking into it.

thanks
Shawn

Yes, I finally found a way to get in touch with them, wasn't easy to find I
may add, but sent them an email last night... still waiting for a response!

I read and re-read their TOS and I can't see how this could be ok
without the prior written consent of the respective owners... if
they do have consent, or if they own the copyright, then obviously it's a
whole other story!

I'll report back when I hear from YouTube!

Cheers, Pete

[Tyrus Antas]

Originally Posted by Pete223

From YouTube's Terms Of Use:
"Content on the Website is provided to you AS IS for your information and personal use only and may not be downloaded, copied, modified, produced, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, broadcast, displayed, sold, licensed, translated, published, performed or otherwise exploited for any other purposes whatsoever without the prior written consent of the respective owners."

Don't think you can use YouTube videos in a paid membership area without consent!

Cheers, Pete

What about websites with advertising business models? They're profiting from those videos too. The only difference is that in a membership model, the embedded videos are behind a password protected site. That's it. Both make money from it.

Tyrus

[Pete223]

Originally Posted by Tyrus Antas

What about websites with advertising business models? They're profiting from those videos too. The only difference is that in a membership model, the embedded videos are behind a password protected site. That's it. Both make money from it.

Tyrus

Not sure I totally agree with that Tyrus...

In your example, the sites you mention make money with the advertising, not the
videos. Sure, often the videos are the only content there and the videos
are generating the traffic, but in this case, the site is selling, charging money,
for the access to these videos.

Are they not "selling" or "otherwise exploiting" in this case?

Anyhow, I hope YouTube responds, I'm really curious what their position will be!

Cheers, Pete

[ConradWala]

Technically he is not selling the youtube videos themselves.
What is happening is that he is selling you the information of where to find
whatever training you paid for not the training itself.

At least this is what it seems like to me

[Sam Smith]

With respect, I think you guys misunderstand the TOS.

The embed feature is being used here as it is intended. That TOS seems to cover ripping from YouTube. Ie. downloading the content en-masse, watermarking and uploading to other video sites.

Embed is there for sharing videos. This is totally OK. You just can't bypass YouTube and host them elsewhere.

It is perhaps unethical to charge if this is the meat-and-bones of a course, but not illegal. And even in this context, he'd be charging for access to his pages, which just contain YouTube embedded.

YouTube just want their content watching, and by implication so does anyone who posts a vid with embed enabled.


(Please note: I am no lawyer, this is not concrete legal advice, etc.)

[Pete223]

All fair arguments guys... hey, I'm no lawyer either, but paying a membership fee
to access YouTube videos would definitely leave a bad taste in my mouth!

You would need to have a lot of good stuff besides the videos to keep me as
a paid member!!!

I still hope YouTube responds, it would be nice to have info from the horse's
mouth... but I'm not holding my breath

Cheers, Pete

[solidsoul]

I know the exact site you refer to I too was a member there aswell. That being said I know that inside the members area there is a section called Video Vault this is where the video links you talk about are posted... this section of the site is not what your paying for your paying for the coaching from the forum area and the material posted by the owner... now I must also add that I quit this site faster than I got in due to the lack of knowledge it seemed to hold it offered me nothing... I agree though that this process of linking to YOUTUBE videos is a bit ahhhhh un professional but hey I didn't create the site you want a real coaching site PM me i'll give you the link not sure it's expected to post lins in here... so I won't

Cheers;
Solidsoul

[edman]

Found this.. . it talks about ads

We will, however, enforce our Terms of Use against, say, a website that does nothing more than aggregate a bunch of embedded YouTube videos and intentionally tries to generate ad revenue from them.

Inappropriate Content : Commercial use on YouTube - YouTube Help

[Pete223]

OK guys, to add to this debate, here is what YouTube pointed me to:

It is against the YouTube Terms of Service
Specifically Section 4d Prohibited commercial uses

You agree not to use the Website, including the YouTube Embeddable Player for any commercial use, without the prior written authorization of YouTube. Prohibited commercial uses include any of the following actions taken without YouTube's express approval:
sale of access to the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable Player) on another website;

use of the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable Player), for the primary purpose of gaining advertising or subscription revenue;

the sale of advertising, on the YouTube website or any third-party website, targeted to the content of specific User Submissions or YouTube content.

and any use of the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable player) that YouTube finds, in its sole discretion, to use YouTube's resources or User Submissions with the effect of competing with or displacing the market for YouTube, YouTube content, or its User Submissions. (For more information about prohibited commercial uses, see our FAQ.)

Again, I'm no lawyer, but I think that pretty much sums it up...
Yes, It Is Against YouTube's TOS

Kindest Regards,
Pete

[jestershaw]

Thanks Pete and everyone else who has done research about this issue.

I have seen Youtube videos used on a couple membership sites. I don't know if they were granted rights to use these but if anyone is thinking about the use of these videos now they know what to do.

Thanks
Shawn

[Pete223]

No problem Shawn, it's been an interesting discussion!

I haven't encountered such a membership site (yet), but it's an interesting
business model choice to say the least

Cheers,
Pete