Allen - Tornado Profit System?

[David_Thompson]

Josh, is right in one way it might not be the one-click-upsell
most guru's are using but to have this working with Paypal
is amazing to say the least.

So he is using the merchant API to get all the data and all
stuff, the mechanics isn't at all important i feel, yes he could
have worded it different but this product fills a need...don't you
guys think?

It's a good breakthrough and if users do the things need to
get buyers to go through the process and pay at the other
end then I can't see why this service can't be a hit...

It will offer users like myself who use Paypal everyday
some advantages over the current way we use Paypal...

--David

[Rachel Rofe]

I haven't read through the entire thread but just a note for the sales letter - Infusion doesn't do upsells on an order form - only on the shopping cart, which leads to 1 of 2 scenarios:

1. People see all of the other products in your cart, making them confused and/or distracted away from purchase

or

2. You can hold the shopping cart so that people don't see other products in your cart through the process, but then they're only charged at the very end after they go through all the OTOs (which means they might realize they can't afford one of the OTOs, get disgusted, and not want to check out, thinking they can't succeed without all of the pieces)

You can use that to your advantage.

Edit: You can buy a custom upsell solution - it just won't accept PayPal and costs more for both the script and for the programming of it.

[MikeLantz]

Like Josh, I am also an ecommerce developer who understands what is going on here. I know how this software is using the Paypal API, and it is definitely a creative use of it...

There are two things that everyone needs to consider:

1) As Josh mentioned, shopping cart abandonment could cause you to lose an initial sale that you would have had doing it the "regular" way. But, upsells made through the system could potentially increase your overall revenue, even with the reduction of customers. But, testing will be required to find out if this is the case.

With that being said, abandonment can be limited by good copy and notices to the user that help them understand what is going on and teach them how to complete the process. However, it never can be as simple as true "one-click" systems using a merchant account.

2) While this method is currently working, Paypal could "break" it at anytime. An important question that needs answered here is: Did the developer show this system to Paypal and have them give it a the green light?

If the answer is yes, then it will probably be OK. But, I have a feeling that the answer is no, and there is a good chance Paypal will not like this "creative" use of this particular API.

Anyway, it would certainly be nice if Paypal would allow this, and even make it a more straightforward process to implement. Paypal is introducing its "Adaptive Payments" system later this year, and that will make a lot more things possible.

Mike

[Jack Humphrey]

Great feedback everyone, thanks!

It's no small issue - the difference between Tornado and the more expensive, complicated stuff. But that's the difference we are capitalizing on. It's not a negative - it's a sales positive.

While massive carts and systems have been developed to try and handle every concievable thing an online business could ever need - a lot of what's been developed doesn't take into consideration that if you strip all the extra away, while you'd certainly be losing a lot of functionality, automation, and even "true" one click upsell, it is simpler and cheaper to do what's most important to anyone starting out: make more from each customer they gain.

There's only one way to do that easily for most people, not geeks, but average people with low budgets.

My company uses infusionsoft. We can afford it and we have someone on staff who has taken the many many hours of learning to get to know how to run it. We personally love infusion, but we're at a totally different level than the people Tornado is helping.

In that context, we thought it was a pretty good step to take even though the sematics of one-click (which don't matter to the target market this is designed for) can be argued. I don't disagree in the least with the argument either. As long as no one tries to say this isn't one click upselling. That would be a mistake too.

On the whole, we're talking about tweaking your processs for a minority of people who abandon the process. This isn't about the overall conversion process, but a fraction of it that we'd all like to keep as healthy as possible, but we know it's an ongoing testing process just like anything else to keep abandonment low.

Everything about one click is averages. Averaging the # of people who take product 1, with the number who also take product 2, with the people who take nothing or abandon the process alltogether.

Simply put, your average customer value is all you care about at the end of the day. If you make $569 more in sales in a day, you aren't sitting there freaking out because 4 out of 100 people abandoned the process.

[Jonathan van Clute]

Hi guys,

I posted a few questions to the contact form the other day but haven't heard back, thought I should put them here instead (gotta remember them now since they weren't sent by email, I can't look in my sent mail!):

1) I use 1ShoppingCart now with Authorize.net as well as Paypal. Obviously Tornado would shift everything to paypal 100%. But I'm not really clear on how exactly Tornado would integrate with 1SC so I can still create my products in 1SC, handle my lists, etc. Is the idea that Tornado BECOMES your shopping cart?

2) How does Tornado handle refunds? Can I process them through the software or do I have to log into Paypal and process them manually, as I must currently with 1SC?

3) One big concern I have with using Paypal only is the reporting. There's no way that I've seen to get a report by product, or any of the other types of reports I normally do in 1SC. I have to export all activity to Excel and then filter like crazy and hope I didn't miss anything. Does Tornado give me complete sales activity reporting as well?

I know I can do 1-click upsells with 1SC by showing them a checkout page each time that re-populates their financial info, but I really don't want to remind people at each upsell that they're whipping out the credit card.

Jonathan

[tecHead]

Hi Jonathan,

Originally Posted by macroking

I posted a few questions to the contact form the other day but haven't heard back, thought I should put them here instead (gotta remember them now since they weren't sent by email, I can't look in my sent mail!):

Firstly, thank you for your interest in Tornado. I apologize for the eMail coorespondance; I had planned on getting to those pending some time, today. Yet, here you are; which makes things a bit easier.. so thanks

Originally Posted by macroking

1) I use 1ShoppingCart now with Authorize.net as well as Paypal. Obviously Tornado would shift everything to paypal 100%. But I'm not really clear on how exactly Tornado would integrate with 1SC so I can still create my products in 1SC, handle my lists, etc. Is the idea that Tornado BECOMES your shopping cart?

You don't necessarily need to abandon all of your other methods of conducting transactions, really. Tornado is just another alternative to what you're already using; granted a pretty lucrative alternative, but an alternative nonetheless.

I guess you could look at Tornado as more of an extension to your current shopping cart(s); as it was built to do one thing and one thing only, (this version anyway).

Think of Tornado as the Super Sales Rep. that you send qualified leads to. Tornado closes the initial sale and attempts to raise the Customer value by offering a couple of your other products while they're in the buying mood. Tornado then reports those sales back to the main office, (in your case 1SC).

As far as communication, you'd basically tell Tornado to use the IPN URL that 1SC tells you to use when its just 1SC and PayPal talking. (I know that sounds a little confusing..)

So instead of..
1ShoppingCart --> PayPal --> 1ShoppingCart

it would be..
1ShoppingCart --> Tornado --> PayPal --> 1ShoppingCart

Originally Posted by macroking

2) How does Tornado handle refunds? Can I process them through the software or do I have to log into Paypal and process them manually, as I must currently with 1SC?

As illustrated directly above, (and in previous posts), once Tornado hands the final transaction information over to PayPal for processing and presents the "Thank You Page".. Tornado is pretty much out of the picture.

Therefore, any subsequent activity involving that transaction would be handled through either your main office, (your Main shoppingcart system), or PayPal.

Originally Posted by macroking

3) One big concern I have with using Paypal only is the reporting. There's no way that I've seen to get a report by product, or any of the other types of reports I normally do in 1SC. I have to export all activity to Excel and then filter like crazy and hope I didn't miss anything. Does Tornado give me complete sales activity reporting as well?

As long as your shopping cart system can receive IPN data for transactions from PayPal, this shouldn't be an issue if that same shopping cart system is designed to run the reports you want.

This is the case with Tornado. Tornado is only a Super Sales Rep.; little Tornado dude doesn't do Accounting.

Originally Posted by macroking

I know I can do 1-click upsells with 1SC by showing them a checkout page each time that re-populates their financial info, but I really don't want to remind people at each upsell that they're whipping out the credit card.

That's pretty much the premise behind Tornado.

To give Merchants the ability to offer more than one product while the Customer is in the buying mood without having to ask for financial information more than "once".

Simple, but VERY powerful.

I hope this answers your questions. We've got the email thing pretty much squared away now, so feel free to contact us if you have any further question.

THANKS!
PLP,
William

[Anonymous Affiliate]

To the guys behind Tornado: if I was you, I would re-do the sales page video with some voice-over commenting what's going on at every step. And I'd remove the background music. It's difficult to follow along what's going on in the video and I'm sure it's hurting your conversions.

[Jason Fulton]

Can this be implemented with the "Butterfly Marketing Script"? and if so does anyone have an idea how to do it.

Jason

[tecHead]

Originally Posted by Jasonb25

Can this be implemented with the "Butterfly Marketing Script"? and if so does anyone have an idea how to do it.

Jason

Hi,

BM listens for IPN data; so, yes. And that would be the way to integrate the two.

The only thing BM might have an issue with is Subscriptions; as they'd be reported differently. Yet, compensation for that is already on the Tornado update list.

PLP,
William

[aceriker]

I'm confused, do you need to upgrade your PayPal account to PayPal Pro to get this working? That seems to be the only way to take advantage of the pre-authorization - kinda like what GoDaddy does when they keep your PayPal account on file.

I know PayPal Pro offers an incredible amount of flexibility to a developer and it pretty underused in the Internet Marketing field.

Peter

[tecHead]

Originally Posted by aceriker

I'm confused, do you need to upgrade your PayPal account to PayPal Pro to get this working? That seems to be the only way to take advantage of the pre-authorization - kinda like what GoDaddy does when they keep your PayPal account on file.

I know PayPal Pro offers an incredible amount of flexibility to a developer and it pretty underused in the Internet Marketing field.

Peter

No. There is no need to upgrade your PayPal account to PayPal Pro. All you need is a Business or Premier account.

PLP,
William

[Jonathan van Clute]

Thanks for the info William,

So instead of..
1ShoppingCart --> PayPal --> 1ShoppingCart

it would be..
1ShoppingCart --> Tornado --> PayPal --> 1ShoppingCart

Aha... I think something just became clear. So Tornado does not become the first point of contact. Someone would still have to go through my normal shopping cart process, see the order page where they fill out all their info, then choose paypal as a payment method, and ONLY THEN would Tornado kick in, is that right?

If so, then there's a bit of a problem I think as the person could still choose to pay via credit card instead of Paypal, thus taking them out of the Tornado upsell loop entirely. I'm not sure if I can choose to accept ONLY paypal in 1SC, though I suppose if they support people without merchant accounts then I must be able to.

I'm still confused as to how I would specify a tornado URL though (I'm assuming there is one for a specific campaign/sequence?) With 1SC (and probably most other carts too), someone clicks the link to buy the product, fills out their info, chooses Paypal, and then off they go to paypal via some link that I have no control over. It's all handled behind the scenes by the cart. I'm not seeing how the visitor would be routed into Tornado instead.

As illustrated directly above, (and in previous posts), once Tornado hands the final transaction information over to PayPal for processing and presents the "Thank You Page".. Tornado is pretty much out of the picture.

Therefore, any subsequent activity involving that transaction would be handled through either your main office, (your Main shoppingcart system), or PayPal.

Yes I see that now... a shame as paypal refunds have to be handled totally manually in 1SC since they don't support the ability to send refund requests to paypal for execution. I wish I could remove that annoyance.

As long as your shopping cart system can receive IPN data for transactions from PayPal, this shouldn't be an issue if that same shopping cart system is designed to run the reports you want.

OK so the product inventory would be managed by 1SC, all transactional data would be listed in 1SC because they use their own IPN to get that information (obviously they must because they get the data now for a single sale so I assume it will work fine with what Tornado sends back). Ultimately my sales reporting would still be managed in 1SC and really nothing changes in my business except that people are presented with additional things to purchase as they check out.

I think I'm starting to see the light! I will agree with other comments about the sales page though, all this stuff isn't made clear and would probably result in fewer questions as well as increased sales if it were all on the page.

Jonathan

[Dr Dan]

I just heard about this on Russell Brunsons micro c weekly training. This looks really cool for those of us that want an easy solution.

[jackjohnson]

Hi everyone great post and great script, I was wondering if it is possible to intigrate it with the rapid action profits script? It would make a very valuble addon

[tecHead]

Originally Posted by jackjohnson

Hi everyone great post and great script, I was wondering if it is possible to intigrate it with the rapid action profits script? It would make a very valuble addon

Thanks for the kudos; but no, I haven't had the chance to discuss integration with Sid as of yet.

I'm actually in the process of doing some major upgrades to Tornado, though.

Hopefully, sometime soon I'll be able to hook up with Sid and we can talk about it; who knows.

PLP,
tecHead