22 replies
Hello everyone!

I am wondering roughly what people are paying their writers per 1000 words

Also is there an estimate between the amount of words and the amount of kindle pages it will be?

Thanks
I have decided to laser focus on kindle to start off my MMO endeavors. Answers and tips are much appreciated
#kindle #outsourcing
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Prices for ghostwriting will be all over the board, but in general, the higher the level of writing required, the greater the amount of research and/or knowledge needed, the higher the price will be. My general impression gathered from writers I know is that you can expect to pay a few hundred dollars for a decent manuscript.

    As for the number of pages, that's not how it works. I can read my Kindle books on screens from my 7" tablet to my 17" auxiliary monitor, with variable font sizes. The number of screens will vary depending on the combination.

    That said, when you upload your book to the Kindle market, they will attempt to estimate the number of pages the book would require if printed as a standard paperback. For example, the book in my sig is estimated at 58 pages. What I uploaded was basically one long web page.
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    • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
      so people are paying over 100$ for their kindle books? I watch a few people online who bang out 5-10 kindle informational niche books each week from outsourcing and are making good money doing so. But 100$ per book just does not seem feasible.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

        100$ per book just does not seem feasible.
        It doesn't seem feasible to me, either: I certainly don't know any writers who will write a book for only $100. I don't even know any people pretending to be writers who will write a book for only $100. And I shudder to imagine what they'd be like, if there were.
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        • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
          the people I have been watching are putting out books that are 5000-10000 words long. so fairly short but the course i bought does not even touch on payment or writer selection at all. pretty annoyed right now and thinking of just putting all the effort into affiliate marketing but the theory of kindle publishing sounded intriguing
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          If I can chime in . . .

          The term Kindle "book" is used by many authors very loosely. I have seen 5 page Kindle books that to me should have been called an "article" or even a "report."

          The term "book," IMO, when used in conjunction with Kindle has no real meaning.

          I'm OK with the fact that a book can be of various lengths if the advertising promise is met and the subject is covered well.

          What I don't like is the obviously "stuffed with fluff" books that are long but provide no real value.

          In other cases, the creator will use a large font and an excessive amount of white space to extend the page length.

          I see the challenge with ghostwriters as being able to put the time in research in order to speak with a voice of authority. Even if a writer puts in research time, if the subject is at all technical or deeply vertical, a ghostwriter is going to lack the personal experience and background necessary to provide analysis and practical examples that make reading worthwhile.

          The answer for me is to write everything myself and to stick with subjects upon which I am experienced.

          Maybe one good approach is to see if you can pay a person experienced in the niche who doesn't claim to be a ghostwriter - a mom looking for extra income, a college student out of work, a retired industry executive looking for something to do, etc.

          The best to all of you,

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
            Part of what made kindle so appealing to me was the outsourcing and automation aspect. I am not one to sit down and bang out 10000 words especially cause I am still finishing my finance degree. Whatever I do I don't want to produce bullshit or take shortcuts. Shortcuts fall short. What I do have to judge by right now is the fact that a few people I have been watching on youtube are making over 20k a month. So the results are there even if the theory is not fully adding up to me. Thanks for the replies.
            I'll keep looking, im tired of being a broke college student so whatever takes.
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          • Profile picture of the author sal64
            100% agree whole heartedly...

            Once upon a time you'd get a decent ebook for $500, but then everyone started doing it and prices went up.

            I too write my own stuff... it's not as difficult as people seem to think.

            Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

            If I can chime in . . .

            The term Kindle "book" is used by many authors very loosely. I have seen 5 page Kindle books that to me should have been called an "article" or even a "report."

            The term "book," IMO, when used in conjunction with Kindle has no real meaning.

            I'm OK with the fact that a book can be of various lengths if the advertising promise is met and the subject is covered well.

            What I don't like is the obviously "stuffed with fluff" books that are long but provide no real value.

            In other cases, the creator will use a large font and an excessive amount of white space to extend the page length.

            I see the challenge with ghostwriters as being able to put the time in research in order to speak with a voice of authority. Even if a writer puts in research time, if the subject is at all technical or deeply vertical, a ghostwriter is going to lack the personal experience and background necessary to provide analysis and practical examples that make reading worthwhile.

            The answer for me is to write everything myself and to stick with subjects upon which I am experienced.

            Maybe one good approach is to see if you can pay a person experienced in the niche who doesn't claim to be a ghostwriter - a mom looking for extra income, a college student out of work, a retired industry executive looking for something to do, etc.

            The best to all of you,

            Steve
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            Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
            You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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            • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
              writing isnt too hard. its more the time factor for me. I was in between on where to dedicate my focus kindle or IM and decided to go with IM. The skills learned in the process seem like they can be used in many areas to make money online. Thanks again everyone for all the replies. Much appreciated.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steve B
                Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

                I was in between on where to dedicate my focus kindle or IM and decided to go with IM.

                Acuity,

                Kindle or IM? The last time I checked, every product or service selling online required Internet Marketing, including Kindle books. If you're not employing IM to your Kindle empire you're probably not selling much.

                Steve
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                Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

    Hello everyone!

    I am wondering roughly what people are paying their writers per 1000 words

    Also is there an estimate between the amount of words and the amount of kindle pages it will be?

    Thanks
    I have decided to laser focus on kindle to start off my MMO endeavors. Answers and tips are much appreciated

    Something that was suggested to me was to post your project as writing "articles" - not "books". You can generally get a much better price on articles than you can for writing something that would naturally be deemed more valuable, like a book.

    You could advertise on Elance.com, Odesk.com, etc for a person that has a background in (your niche) and has strong research skills.

    Be sure to ask for examples of their work. Example, you could have them write 3 articles of 1000 words each in order to check their writing style, how well they follow instructions, etc. Note: the minimum is $25.00 at Elance last tme I checked. That's why I recommended 3 articles. If it's really bad you'll only be out $30.00.

    Also check their work portfolio, if they have one, to see what kind of projects they've done for others, the kind of feedback they've received, etc.

    Once you've found someone to hire, be sure to have a written agreement that includes at least 1-2 rewrites, edits, etc. Some people request unlimited rewrites, but I think that's overkill. If you're really that unhappy with the work you should simply move on to the next writer.

    In addition, you should set small project milestones. This breaks the project into smaller chunks. Example, if you had 20 articles of 1000 words that each you need written you should break it up into 4-5 parts. That way if the work quality begins to decline or if the relationship soured for another reason (hard to reach the writer, they're not following instructions carefully, making up excuses for not getting the work completed, etc) you can fire them and get out with only a minimal loss.

    If you hire someone to write 20 articles of 1000 words each that's enough content for a book over 20,000 words. You could easily do this for $200.00 and get good quality work. You'd simply need to write an introduction and a summary at the end. I'd also add a simple "hook" after the introduction in order to let readers know what they're about to learn, what they should be able to accomplish when they've finished reading (if it's a "how to" book), etc to help to get them engaged. That's what I'd do, anyway.

    Also, be sure to run each article through Copyscape.com premium service or Grammarly (mentioned below) to be sure it's not plagiarized.

    Keep in mind, you'll still need to have the content edited and formatted and you'll need a really good book cover, as well. Not some Fiverr gig! Another Warrior member was kind enough to recommend using www.Grammerly.com for editing. I'm pretty sure you can get the formatting done on Fivver.com.

    By the way, I've just begun to do this myself. Outsourcing the writing is something I learned about long ago through trial and error. Someone else taught me how to present the project for a book and everything else.

    There are a couple great Kindle courses out there that you can buy. Geoff Shaw is awesome, though none of the advice above came from him. You can also check out Steve Scott at www.SteveScottSite.com for more great information.

    Everyone else feel free to chime in if they have additional or better resources than I mentioned. Once again, I'm just getting started with this myself.

    HTH,

    Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      people I have been watching on youtube are making over 20k a month
      Sure, they are...and what are they trying to sell you?

      Do you have any idea how easy it is to fake "proof of income"? Something to keep in mind.
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      • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Sure, they are...and what are they trying to sell you?

        Do you have any idea how easy it is to fake "proof of income"? Something to keep in mind.
        semi hard to fake a penthouse and a corvette
        but i see what your saying
        whether they are faking it or not does not change the fact that there are people out there making a healthy living off of kindle
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

          semi hard to fake a penthouse and a corvette
          but i see what your saying
          whether they are faking it or not does not change the fact that there are people out there making a healthy living off of kindle
          Actually, not hard at all.

          An open house at a penthouse gives plenty of opportunity to snap a few photos, and Corvettes can be rented by the hour. Anyone with a few hours, a cell phone, and no conscience can "have" those things in less than a day. Same goes for yachts and pretty girls in bikinis.

          Yes, there are people making a living from Kindle books, but they generally aren't the ones spewing crappy cheap outsourced books.

          There are some that used to make a fair amount of money that way, but Amazon has been taking steps to weed out the schlock. Many of those people have turned to creating "how to get rich on Kindle" courses teaching outdated information or, as you found out, leave out big chunks of information.
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          • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
            This is all making me second guess kindle. I don't have a ton of money to play around with at the moment. I have a 160 dollar a month budget dedicated to mmo which will hopefully increase once I start making money. I have an affiliate website set up a few days ago called edit and still need to promote it. Basically what I am getting at is if you guys were in my shoes (beginner to mmo/im) which avenue would you take?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

              I have an affiliate website set up a few days ago called breakingbadgear.com and still need to promote it.
              Oops ... have you really registered a domain-name whose URL includes a trademark owned by notorious litigants Sony Pictures Inc?

              Urgent re-think needed, there, maybe? It could possibly be "promoting" it that will bring it to the adverse attention of their legal department? Among the things that can and regularly do happen, when the trademark owner discovers such breaches of trademark in a domain-name, are:-
              • They can tell you to take it down
              • They can take the domain from you
              • They can take from you any money you've ever made through the site
              • They can sue you for additional damages for flagrantly breaching their legal rights
              Don't imagine that because "you're helping them to make sales" (as is so often the case, in these circumstances) they'll decide to be lenient. That isn't how it works. The point here is that owning a trademark effectively confers obligations as well as rights on the holder: when it comes to trademark renewal time, if it can be shown that they've knowingly failed to protect their rights with regard to the trademark, that can be held against them. Some companies, for this reason, have the policy of pursuing all breaches of the trademark routinely and without reference to the motives/purposes/circumstances/location of the defendant.

              I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not even really all that interested in playing one on TV, either.

              Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

              if you guys were in my shoes (beginner to mmo/im) which avenue would you take?
              The one that leads to getting my own shoes back from you (they would, in any case, be no use to you: you wouldn't even be able to stand in them, let alone walk ).

              More seriously, it's exactly the same as the answer to anyone here who asks "How to start making money online": the answer necessarily depends on your skills. Income-generation is skill-based.

              I started as an impoverished college student, and set up my entire business for about $60. Everything I did is here, if you want to read it. Again, that was what suited me because of my existing skills (I was a writer). That's the single, biggest, most important thing that your chances necessarily depend on. (How could it not be, really?).


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              • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  semi hard to fake a penthouse and a corvette
                  Not at all.

                  I remember one self-proclaimed guru who had a photo of his fancy sports car (with him sitting in the driver's seat) on his site....was great unless you noticed part of a the car dealership sign in the upper left corner.

                  Another had multiple photos of "my new home purchased with online income" - lovely home until you noticed the closets and cabinets (glass doors) were empty - it was a model home he didn't own.

                  Personally - I ignore ANYONE trying to impress by showing cars and houses and beach front photos.

                  As for the domain - just make sure it is NOT on "auto renew" and it will expire at the end of the term. Registering a trademarked term is a mistake many new marketers make - it's a learning experience.
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                  Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
                  ***
                  Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
                  January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
                  So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
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                  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    Not at all.

                    I remember one self-proclaimed guru who had a photo of his fancy sports car (with him sitting in the driver's seat) on his site....was great unless you noticed part of a the car dealership sign in the upper left corner.

                    Another had multiple photos of "my new home purchased with online income" - lovely home until you noticed the closets and cabinets (glass doors) were empty - it was a model home he didn't own.

                    Personally - I ignore ANYONE trying to impress by showing cars and houses and beach front photos.

                    As for the domain - just make sure it is NOT on "auto renew" and it will expire at the end of the term. Registering a trademarked term is a mistake many new marketers make - it's a learning experience.
                    I once saw a guy doing a sales pitch while walking through his beautiful home. The kids bedrooms had exactly zero toys, and there was not one single family picture anywhere. Like Kay said.. Model Home. But one of the best was a fancy sports car with dealer plates on it.

                    al
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                    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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                    • Profile picture of the author AcuityLabs
                      Nice to see fellow Upstate NYer. Its not possible to change the domain name?
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        • Profile picture of the author agmccall
          Originally Posted by AcuityLabs View Post

          semi hard to fake a penthouse and a corvette
          but i see what your saying
          whether they are faking it or not does not change the fact that there are people out there making a healthy living off of kindle
          From this, I think I know who you are talking about. and, if you read his blog you will see that the majority of his money is coming from selling the Kindle Product, and his upsell to his membership site. His actual kindle books are a small portion of his income. That is if, like Kay mentioned, they are not faking it

          al
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          "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    You either want "low budget, low quality" or you want "fair budget and good quality."
    It would be rare to find something in between so figure out if price is your driving factor and then make your decision.

    Having said that, I write "per word" and not "per page" because, as has been said, a page can have 200-600 words.

    It also depends on your topic, how much direction you give the writer and how much knowledge they have in the niche. I hope that all makes sense and helps a little.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tanya E
    It is not necessary that the first book you publish on Kindle is going to earn you a large amount of revenue. In fact most Kindle authors have been successful only after publishing 3-4 books.

    If you're starting out it may be better for you to begin with offering a service. This will form a source of income for you that will help you to spend on expenses associated with outsourcing.
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  • Profile picture of the author QueenMelanie
    don't think you'd wanna go below $10 per 1,000 words..
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