What place does a formal education have in IM?

by Peter Bestel 70 replies
Do you have a formal education, maybe up to degree level? Has it been useful for your online career?

I ask because there seems to been a marked increase in the number of UK universities offering a degree in Entrepreneurship. It just got me thinking, what use is a piece of paper saying you can be your own boss - when you're going to be your own boss?

No doubt the course content is useful (debatable how relevant maybe) but why a degree?

And then I remembered; a couple of years ago I actually gave a talk to a group of 2nd year Entrepreneurship students. My topic was on being self employed. There was about 120 of them. I asked them a simple question,

"Who knows what business they're going to be running once they graduate?"

No-body put their hand up. So, I asked a question I was confident of getting a more positive response to,

"Who's going to run their own business after graduation?"

Guess how many hands went up this time?

None!

What's the point of that? Why learn Entrepreneurship if you're not going to put it into practice. And you know what, their tutor was surprised too, he'd never asked them that question before!

Certainly makes me wonder the point of some so-called education. I mean, how much of your formal education are you using now and how much have you never used and never likely to use?

Peter
#main internet marketing discussion forum #education #formal #place
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  • Profile picture of the author jan roos
    School is over rated but education is not
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    • Profile picture of the author Bishop81
      I agree. It's not the paper you're after, but the education that leads up to that point. In that Entrepreneur track, you'll likely learn accounting, business management, sales, and many other points that will help your business succeed right away. You can learn all this on your own, but it will likely cost more and take longer in the end.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ricter
        Agreed. The paper proves you went after the education, and got it. Much like a first sale proves you took action.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
        I've never been a big advocate of formal education past
        high school.

        I'm bigger on self education. I rather go at my own paste
        and learn the things I <<KEYWORD I need to learn in order
        to progress in MY LIFE specifically. Obviously you're not going
        to get that in a classroom.

        Daniel
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        • Profile picture of the author Ricter
          Everyone gets self-education to some extent--all you have to do is not die. The formal degree demonstrates that you stayed the course, you persisted. Maybe everyone can learn to fly a plane on their own, too. Most folks still want to see their pilot with a license. Even if half the stuff taught in flight school will never be used (God willing).
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
            Originally Posted by Ricter View Post

            Everyone gets self-education to some extent--all you have to do is not die. The formal degree demonstrates that you stayed the course, you persisted. Maybe everyone can learn to fly a plane on their own, too. Most folks still want to see their pilot with a license. Even if half the stuff taught in flight school will never be used (God willing).
            Have you ever gotten on a plane and asked the pilot to show you his certificate?

            I'd like to watch that discussion.

            I don't see what having a degree has to do with running your own business- are your customers going to ask to see your degree?
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            • Profile picture of the author Ricter
              Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

              Have you ever gotten on a plane and asked the pilot to show you his certificate?

              I'd like to watch that discussion.

              I don't see what having a degree has to do with running your own business- are your customers going to ask to see your degree?
              If you're selling $3 acne cures, no.
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                Originally Posted by Ricter View Post

                If you're selling $3 acne cures, no.
                Who says any of us are selling that?

                I do have a degree, but no customer has ever asked if I did, and I haven't heard of anyone else being asked. Seems like an odd question to ask a seller.

                College degrees are really more for getting certain types of jobs.
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        • Profile picture of the author sylviad
          I have a good answer...

          For the first 25 of my working years, I held basic level jobs because my education was minimal. In year 26, I took Journalism and my entire life changed for the better. It removed the barriers that had blocked me all those years. By its nature, Journalism forced me to learn new things constantly.

          An additional 25+ years later, my brain is loaded with all kinds of information that comes in handy in more ways than I can say, from repairing my house to finding my way around the online business world.

          Journalism gave me the tools to conduct effective research and write to sell. However, my determination enabled me to learn all about computers - from installing programs and learning programs to a certain degree of troubleshooting.

          Had I taken computer-related courses, I could have gained that knowledge in 1-2 years instead of 10.

          Today, I struggle with marketing - painfully. Had I taken some sort of formal marketing, business or entrepreneur course rather than go the self-education route, I would probably be a millionaire by now, rather than...

          To answer your question:

          A formal education can be extremely beneficial for anyone wanting to have a successful business online. The key is that the education be directly related to the skills needed to reach that required level of expertise.

          However...

          A formal education certainly is not required. It might shorten the learning curve, but some people learn quite well on their own. Personally, I think it all depends on the individual... whether they are disciplined enough to self-teach, whether they know what they need and where to get it, and how to apply it correctly. It also depends on how they learn. Some people learn better with specific steps to follow while other people are quite adept at grasping only what they need and applying it effectively.

          So yes, my formal education as a journalist has helped me considerably with my online business. Had I not achieved my diploma, chances are I'd still be parked behind a typewriter while my brain turned to mush.

          Sylvia
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          • Profile picture of the author SolomonHuey
            I graduated recently with a B.S. in entrepreneurship. While I did not want to go to college (did it for the parents), but I can say that many aspects apply to internet marketing. Aspects such as management, production, law, accounting, and the concept of building wealth (versus revenue) can all be applied to what we do here.

            In fact, whenever I see "text book" concepts mentioned in products or forums, people RAVE about the information even though you could find it in any text book or library on the subject. I rarely see those concepts mentioned though.

            As for when you said you spoke to a group of entrepreneurship majors, the answer is pretty simple there. Most business majors are there because they don't want to major in something that involves great skill in math, science, or English. Most don't really have an interest in business. Kind of a harsh generalization, but that's what I've come to notice throughout the years.

            I think formal education and self-education both have their place. And both ARE useful to Internet marketing. Whether we apply it or not though, is a whole other question.

            Solomon Huey
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        • Profile picture of the author promediasys
          Like most things in life the value of a college education has alot to do with what you put into it. If you play your cards right you could come away with alot more ideas/options/pathways to explore that will shape where you progress in life.

          -David

          Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

          I've never been a big advocate of formal education past
          high school.

          I'm bigger on self education. I rather go at my own paste
          and learn the things I <<KEYWORD I need to learn in order
          to progress in MY LIFE specifically. Obviously you're not going
          to get that in a classroom.

          Daniel
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          • Profile picture of the author matthewd
            I am currently getting a degree in marketing. For the past 2 years I was Cell & Molecular Biology/Pre-Dental but once I started making some real money in IM and decided that is what I want to do with my life, I chose to just switch majors instead of quitting school.

            I am actually going to get my Masters as well. I have no plans of ever having to get a "job" but if I do, at least it might be a somewhat decent one.

            As far as the degree in Entrepreneuship goes, I don't really understand that much. It would make sense to take classes if you already have a business and want to run it better, or you at least know what business you will be running... but with no idea whatsoever of what you are going to do with the degree seems pretty pointless.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jason Dittberner
              Too many factors. What school, classes, degrees, professors, effort put forth by you, etc. Probably not much, except student loan debt.

              I'd argue that two weeks (probably a lot less) on this forum would blow away any four year degree, even if the degree was specific to IM. IM is ever evolving. School programs can't change fast enough to keep up with the evolution of IM. Too much red tape for schools to comply with.

              I remember starting college for CAD, and changed programs once a professional told me that the info was outdated two years ago. Schools argue "concepts." Whatever. The tution bill doesn't say "concepts."

              Then again I am not a big fan of college. I got my degree just so when I talk bad about college, people can't say, "You only say that because you don't have one." It was my main motivator.
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Q.What place does a formal education have in IM?
                A. It doesn't have one

                I've always thought that the concept of a degree in "entrepreneurship" was an oxymoron

                Formal education is designed primarily with churning out graduates for establishment careers.

                Qualifications are all very well, but the most important thing an education can or rather should do, is to instil a love of learning into each student. That way, learning doesn't stop when you leave college; but continues throughout your whole life.



                Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author angela99
                  My 2 cents: IM is Internet MARKETING.

                  Any courses you take in the basics of marketing will help you to succeed online - try your local community college.

                  Around 15 years ago I took two courses in marketing and public relations. I credit any success I've had online to those two courses. I took them over a couple of years, but it was the best time and money I've ever spent.

                  I can see where courses in entrepreneurship would be useful, in teaching you the basics of business: how to raise money, etc. Most especially: how to THINK.

                  The problem with a self-education - while it's extremely valuable - is that you don't know what you don't know, so you can have huge gaps in your knowledge which end up biting you in the rear when you least expect it.:-)
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                  • Profile picture of the author summer07
                    Originally Posted by angela99 View Post

                    My 2 cents: I can see where courses in entrepreneurship would be useful, in teaching you the basics of business: how to raise money, etc. Most especially: how to THINK.

                    The problem with a self-education - while it's extremely valuable - is that you don't know what you don't know, so you can have huge gaps in your knowledge which end up biting you in the rear when you least expect it.:-)
                    another 2 cents: The trick is to get good education. A lot of colleges and universities in the US, at least, are now in the business of making money instead of educating.

                    And most gear their business classes toward corporate career paths, since the schools get funding from corporations. Entrepreneurs fit into the corporate model as managers of new ventures, which are fully intended to grow big and become -- large corporations!

                    Still, good education and mentorship can save a lot of time and money spent reinventing wheels when you learn on your own.

                    Do I have a formal degree? Yes, in psychology. And some of my coursework related closely to marketing, actually. Does it help me in IM? Well.. it hasn't help me keep my wallet in my purse while reading some of those long sales letters, even when I know better.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Bishop81
                      I did say earlier that I feel a college education is worthwhile, however I never mentioned my status in that area...

                      I am a programmer with no degree, or even any college programming education. I'm completely self-taught in all aspets of my current career. That said, I do still feel that a college education is important for some people. Only you will know for sure. I am more successful than others who do have a degree, but there is a lot involved there.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
                        I just wanted to open this thread to brag about how I'm going to take an actual, real-life IM class at college in the spring quarter I hope, I'm incredibly excited!
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mac Wheeler
                          I have two degrees, one in business studies and the other in philosophy, both of them help me in my working life every day, simply due to the fact I learnt how to perform research, how to think analytically and how to formulate ideas into concepts.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                            Interesting responses. I don't think anyone is arguing against education per se, but in my experience, once it is formalised by a college or university, they quite often fill the curriculum with irrelevant or erroneous information - stuff, at least, that you'll never use again.

                            The case for self education is that you can pick and choose. Angela argued:

                            The problem with a self-education - while it's extremely valuable - is that you don't know what you don't know
                            Well that's easy to solve. If you think that a particular course is going to teach you what you want, then look at its structure, its curriculum. You'll find what they plan to teach you, and then go find the latest thinking on each of the topics.

                            The Entrepreneur Degree course that I spoke of in my OP was taught by two college professors who'd been in academia their entire lives. I shudder to think who wrote the thing!

                            Obviously it is horses for courses. Some people like being taught to, while others learn more experientially and can earn while they learn.

                            Peter
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                            • Profile picture of the author strive4impact
                              The best thing college teaches you is how to learn.

                              So many people come out of college and formal education not having learned how to use the tools they've been given to learn everything (and anything) they want to learn.

                              I think the skill of learning how to learn is really one that can be best gained from a formal education, and it can be applied in Internet Marketing in a HUGE way, but most people don't realize that's what their formal education is really about...

                              It's not "what" they're learning necessarily, but the skills they're learning for how to learn that are the most universally applicable (and least used/understood) skills that can be gained from a formal education.

                              It's those skills that will be the most beneficial in an arena which changes as rapidly as Internet Marketing.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                Originally Posted by strive4impact View Post

                                It's not "what" they're learning necessarily, but the skills they're learning for how to learn are the most universally applicable (and least used/understood) skills that can be gained from a formal education.
                                I see your point Jonathan, but you can learn how to learn in a much shorter space of time than three years!

                                Have you got into Accelerated Learning? Brian Tracy's stuff is awesome?

                                Peter
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                                • Profile picture of the author strive4impact
                                  Agreed... 3-4 years to learn how to learn seems like a long time.

                                  I've seen Brian Tracy in person twice. I love what he teaches.

                                  I don't think I'm applying it as effectively as I should be yet...

                                  Not to derail this discussion, but do you have any tips/tricks/suggestions for application of the tools he presents? (I've also listened to a lot of Dennis Waitley, Napoleon Hill, and Jim Rohn.)

                                  Thanks!
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                    Originally Posted by strive4impact View Post

                                    Agreed... 3-4 years to learn how to learn seems like a long time.

                                    I've seen Brian Tracy in person twice. I love what he teaches.

                                    I don't think I'm applying it as effectively as I should be yet...

                                    Not to derail this discussion, but do you have any tips/tricks/suggestions for application of the tools he presents? (I've also listened to a lot of Dennis Waitley, Napoleon Hill, and Jim Rohn.)

                                    Thanks!
                                    Like anything you learn, it's only good if you use it. "Use it or lose it" as the saying goes.

                                    If you've had the pleasure of seeing Brian Tracy then I can assume you have his materials. He pretty much gives you everything you need, but two tips that I can think of just now are:

                                    1. Have something you want to learn. Seems obvious but so many people focus on stuff they think they should learn - that ain't going to work.

                                    2. Get in the right state of mind. I use my wife's relaxation CD (not a plug, plenty of others on the market) this just gets rid of any mental crap that might be going on so I'm more receptive to the learning process. This works for me.

                                    But the key really is to just keep using it. "Repetition is the mother of skill." as Tony Robbins says.

                                    Peter
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
                                    Interesting thread!

                                    I'm currently going to school part-time, majoring in marketing. It's my second degree. I already hold an A.A. which is worthless in the marketplace for reasons I won't go into here. That royally ticked me off, so I went back to school determined to get a degree that the marketplace will recognize. In fact, it's a top priority for me right now.

                                    A friend recently asked me, if I want to be self-employed, why kill myself going to school? (I also currently hold a real-world job and do copywriting and IM part-time.) Good question. I have several reasons, but I really feel a degree is important for me for a few reasons:

                                    1. Much as I love working for myself and the idea of self-employment, I feel it's ALWAYS a good idea to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible. You never know when you'll need a job for whatever reason and why give anyone any reason not to hire you? Life is hard enough. Don't put more obstacles in your way.

                                    Take a quick look through your local paper's classifieds. Oftentimes, you can't even get an interview without a Bachelor's degree.

                                    2. There are some things you'll learn in college you'll never learn any other way. Not to say that those without a college degree can't be educated. But you'll have an advantage in running your own business with the knowledge you gained from going to school that those without a degree just don't have. If nothing else, you'll shave several years off of your learning curve, which means more $$$$ in your pocket.

                                    I'm currently taking an accounting class and am learning stuff I'd never have learned otherwise.

                                    3. I think it's better to be educated than uneducated, self-employed or not.

                                    4. I truly enjoy learning new things. I enjoy being in school, though the pace of my schedule really presses me and stresses me out, sometimes.

                                    5. I think a college education offers a lot of resources to you that you'd never know about or have access to otherwise -- resources as a student while in school and resources through the alumni network later.

                                    As someone else pointed out, a college education teaches you to think, to analyze, research, etc. And a basic knowledge of history, literature, art, etc. is never a bad thing. I appreciate movies (like Elizabeth, a movie about Queen Elizabeth I) and books (like The Intelligencer) I'd never have appreciated otherwise without a basic knowledge of history, literature and art.

                                    Bottom line: I WANT to be a formally educated person, rather than just a self-taught person. I find a lot of value in it, so much so that I'm going to school for a second time while working full-time, when it's a lot more difficult to do. I'm long past 18 or 20.

                                    However... (And this is a big however...)

                                    I no longer believe that a college degree is the holy grail of a good career, that if I don't have a degree I won't have a good, lucrative career. I don't believe that a college degree guarantees me a good job.

                                    I got a degree and was unemployed for over two years after graduation. I was in debt and had no car. I learned a very hard lesson and look at colleges and their degrees with a jaundiced eye.

                                    So I say, get a degree, but know what to expect and what you want out of it. Though I'm older now and can no longer go to school full-time, I'm getting A LOT MORE out of it because now I know exactly what I want out of it and have very realistic expectations. It's kept me focused.

                                    And that has made a world of difference for me.

                                    (In that respect, I would encourage young people to maybe wait a little bit before going to school if they're not clear on what they want out of their education. Stay home, get a job, maybe take a few classes at the local community college until you figure it out. But DON'T go to a large, expensive university and incur all kinds of student loan debt just because that's what everyone else does.)

                                    So I keep hacking away at it. I'm majoring in Marketing and when I'm done with that, I intend to get a Master's degree in Economics. It's hard work, especially in conjunction with a full-time job, but I love it!

                                    I agree with what someone else said though: a degree in Entrepreneurship is an oxymoron -- and a completely worthless degree. (Who thinks this stuff up???)

                                    Michelle
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                                  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                                      At the risk of being the odd man out, I would say that I am using every little scrap of my formal education to be where I am today. I have degrees in Engineering, Computer Science and Education, not to mention a myriad of advanced courses, seminars and other training applicable to my former career. Every moment of that education was well spent for me.
                                      You obviously made some good choices early on Mike. It's great to see someone using what they've learned during college and making money with it. That's the key though, isn't it: actually using the knowledge that you've acquired.

                                      As Norma said, the degree is not the piece of paper you receive, but rather the knowledge that you've gained. My point is that knowledge (or experience) does not HAVE to be gained from formal education and further, it is pointless unless you put it into practice.

                                      I think you're right Mike when you say
                                      you hardly, if ever, see someone without a formal education rising very far in a corporate structure.
                                      but this discussion is about whether a formal education has a place in IM.

                                      I was simply querying whether people who have degrees etc actually apply the specific skills they learned, into their online business. Also, by way of illustration, I was pointing out the irony of some students that I'd met, studying for a degree that you'd think would directly apply to self employment, having no intention of running a business.

                                      It may appear that I've got a downer on degrees. Couldn't be further from the truth. I admire anyone that has applied themselves, made the commitment to learn and has stuck at it. Yes Norma, they are winners! But it doesn't end there. You've then got to go out into the world (if you're not already doing so like Mike had) and apply the things. Knowledge, by itself is not power - power comes when you apply knowledge.

                                      Peter
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                                      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                                        Many people are so heavily programmed through their life experience to believe that getting some kind of degree is the way to get enough skill to get paid more that they naturally look for degrees they can work toward in any field.

                                        Unfortunately at present most university degrees in marketing are not very helpful and could actually harm your progress in learning how to market effectively (real world experience in selling is far more useful).

                                        Business degrees do have useful elements but ultimately if you want to run a successful online business at present nothing will replace getting in an doing it.

                                        The closest you'll get is being mentored by someone who is genuinely successful.

                                        Kindest regards,
                                        Andrew Cavanagh
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                                        • Profile picture of the author colinredk
                                          I remember one of the speakers during the Freshman Orientation, he quoted "do not let your studies interfere with your education." A college degree is needed if you want to be competitive in the "real world." Another analogy is the oft quoted, "army fighting yesterday's war." A college degree is really a preparation for how to survive in the existing "real world." But IM is so new, the rules are still evolving.

                                          For all it's worth, too much dependence on a college degree puts you into a mindset or a box. If the rules keep on changing, that's not much of an advantage.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
                                            more than 50% of the rich 200 in Australia have no formal qualifications.

                                            The rich 40 (Under 40) believe university delays welath building.

                                            Education is vital, degrees are optional.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                              Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

                                              more than 50% of the rich 200 in Australia have no formal qualifications.

                                              The rich 40 (Under 40) believe university delays welath building.

                                              Education is vital, degrees are optional.
                                              Good point James.

                                              Now, I'm not saying that these guys (all male incidentally!) never used what they learned at school or college, but they became quite successful without completing it:

                                              Simon Cowell - left school at 16
                                              Richard Branson - left school at 16
                                              Paul Allen - dropped out of college
                                              Michael Dell - dropped out of college
                                              Bill Gates - dropped out of college
                                              Steve Jobs - dropped out of college
                                              Steven Spielberg - dropped out of college
                                              Steve Wozniak - dropped out of college

                                              Just a selection from The College Drop-Outs Hall of Fame: Famous college dropouts and rich college dropouts

                                              Interesting eh?

                                              Peter

                                              EDIT: I'd like to see a list of guru IMers and see where their formal schooling finished
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                                              • Profile picture of the author davebo
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                                                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                  I've got the formal education (Wolverine, Rah) and I find it useful in one way or other every day of my life. I didn't get the education because of work life demands. I got it to know what I wanted and thought I needed to know.

                                                  My linguistics education was to further my abilities to write. I hear so many people saying they can write - but when looking at their work through a teacher's eye, it wouldn't pass a first year writing class. There are just a few things that people miss without the formalized education. I've edited writing that is just flawed and I can't even make the person understand what "missing referent" or "juxtaposed logic" means. Some things just take some formalized discipline.

                                                  The worst thing I ever learned in school was Economics - no real interest, just recognized a need to know how the economy works at both the macro and micro levels. Man that was dry stuff to get through except the fact that Macro scared me crapless. They probably aren't even ALLOWED to teach what we learned any more. LOL.

                                                  Benjamin Franklin said something - I don't remember the word for word quote but the general idea went like "Pour your wallet into your head and you have made an investment that no one will ever be able to take from you.

                                                  I am no longer in school - but continue to learn every day and feel I acquired the tools necessary to do some of the learning I do in formal ed. If you can go to school do so - but if you can't, don't let that stop you from learning everything you can about everything you encounter.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  For every one successful person that you can name that didn't go to college, I could probably name about 1000. So I wouldn't necessarily say that not going to college=multi-billionaire.
                                                  Quite obviously, the list I put up is of 'exceptional' people. They are not your average joe. They have other qualities that have set them apart from the crowd. I put the list up to highlight what is possible - not what is the norm.

                                                  You referred to the Entrepreneurship degree;
                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  It's not perfect, but it's education for people who envision themselves going into business for themselves.
                                                  Well, as I explained, of the 120 students of this course that I met, none of them wanted to be in business for themselves.

                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  All in all, does college have it's place? I'd say so. For one, it opens up more doors. For two, you absorb way more than you think in a college atmosphere that you use in your everyday life. For three, I have friends from college (8 years ago) that I will be friends with for life.
                                                  Grossly subjective. There is no reason why somebody who doesn't attend college can't have these experiences.

                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  But really think about it though. How many people struggled for awhile before making it online. A good job enables you to invest money into your online business prior to going full steam ahead. Because I had a job (that required a college-education) I could afford to invest in my online business. Can you imagine what a clusterf*ck your life would be if you came out of HS and went straight into IM? Sure you might look back on your life and say you really didn't need college, but it's the progression that likely led you to IM. College>job>making good money>discomfort in 9-5>started online>quit job.
                                                  Maybe you should read 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'

                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  For most people, without the discomfort of 'working for the man', they wouldn't have the desire to start a business.
                                                  Now that, I agree with!

                                                  At the risk of repeating myself, I think college, university, formal education is great! But it's not the only option and it's not necessarily the best option.

                                                  Peter
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                                                    I just deleted several paragraphs of biography in the original draft for this post. You can thank me later...

                                                    The quick version is - I have a bachelors degree in engineering, but I managed to pick up a pretty decent liberal education along the way. I worked my way through school selling light fixtures and accessories to builders and home buyers/remodelers on commission.

                                                    My formal education provided methods of thinking, concepts like feedback loops and processes, some context from the liberal arts portion, and some much-needed discipline.

                                                    The work experience has been invaluable in running my own business - things like sales, customer service (and setting limits), margins and profits, dealing with suppliers, and more.

                                                    Either alone would have been incomplete. Together, I think I turned out OK.

                                                    One of the most useful things I've ever learned came from my father. He wanted to go to college, but my appearance kind of put that kibosh on that idea. Even without the sheepskin, my father is one of the best-educated people I've ever met. In his 70s now, he's still learning new things.

                                                    My school days are far behind me, but my education will never be complete.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
                                                      I dropped out of high school when I was in 9th grade.

                                                      When I was 16 I begged the principle to give me a release letter so I could attend college. I tested into the local community college at that time and attended four semesters.

                                                      I was homeless during much of that time but college only cost me $4 a credit through a high school completion program that allowed me to take college classes and apply them as dual credit toward my high school and college education.

                                                      After a year of severe homelessness I was able to start up a business making jewelry at age 19 and transfer to another community college for another 4 semesters and then transferred into an extension wilderness study program through San Fran State.

                                                      I earned barely a few hundred dollars a month from my business back then when I was just starting out but during that time I learned the basics of retail, wholesale, and consignment.

                                                      During the extension program I took through San Fran State I lived out of a tent for two months producing a documentary for tv on wilderness and cultural issues in Montana which I was an editor, producer, and narrator for.

                                                      This was my first exposure to video production.

                                                      After that I did not return to school for 7 years but instead went on to develop my art business and my skills in both buying and selling. It was hard work and seasonal and pretty much a feast or famine lifestyle but I learned many skills and principles that I applied to building my online business.

                                                      in 1998 I completely changed my lifestyle and served as a missionary in Las Vegas from 1999 to 2001.

                                                      That time gave me a new perspective on life and a lot of experience in leadership and management in the mission.

                                                      I decided to return to School in 2001 and spent the next 4 years attending a University year around (including summer semesters).

                                                      Being interested in business I enrolled in the business school. Almost on accident I ran into a small business owner running a local discount advertising and direct sales company and got involved. Within a couple months I became a manager in the company and within a year I became the regional marketing director over all operations in the state.

                                                      At that same time I began researching online business and in 2002 started Internet Business Ideas LLC (now inc.)

                                                      I was able to make a full time income running the offline business and sales forces working only 2 hours a day and I spent another 6 online and the rest attending classes at the University, studying, and in 2002 starting a family ;-)

                                                      At the university I was confined to taking classes that only applied to my major... but I had a problem...

                                                      I was more interested in my businesses than my University education so every time I came across a skill that I wanted that could be applied to my business that I could study at the university I changed my major so that I could take the classes I wanted.

                                                      This benefitted me greatly because any class I took I took specifically so that I could apply it to what I was currently doing in my business.

                                                      This is where I learned the basics that formed the foundations of my knowledge of graphic design, software design, web design, business law, economics, business communication and writing, statistics, accounting etc.

                                                      All of which are an important part of the knowledge I use every day in my business...

                                                      However, the most important knowledge I use is my experience... there is no university that teaches anything that can replace the value of real world experience. The smarts I developed on the streets, in door to door sales, in joint venture relationship building and advertising strategy development with local businesses and national franchises and brands.

                                                      I graduated after the equivalent of 6 years of college with a general 2 year degree. I never went beyond my first 6 months of high school and I never received a GED or high school equivelancy.

                                                      I chose to leave the university because I had half of several 4 year degrees and there was nothing left there that interested me and I had already created my own career ;-)

                                                      However, I will say that the last university I attended had one of the best entreprenurial programs in the nation. Not so much for the book curriculum but for the guest lecture series where they had CEOs and Entrepreneurs come and lecture on real world experience... the notes I took in those lectures were worth more than anything ever taught by any of the teachers at the university.

                                                      The entrepreneurial program there attempted to simulate real world experience by actually having the students create and run live busineses from concept to product creation to marketing and sales.

                                                      I have a collegue who was just hired to assist a university in development of new media deployment strategies and curriculum because of some of the experience and knowledge that he and I have collaborated on reasearched and learned over the last year.... of course he has some pretty impressive production skills and creative talents that initially attracted them to him and put him over the top and made them persue him as well :-)

                                                      But it was not his education credentials that attracted the university to hire him it was his experience... it was his knowledge and display of true talent, experience, and real world skills and uniqueness.

                                                      He is also a fellow warrior.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                                        Great post Josh. I truly am grateful to you for sharing your story.

                                                        It's a great example of how life experiences and education weave together, not always harmoniously, to allow us to grow and become the people we are.

                                                        Thanks

                                                        Peter
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                                                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                                                  It probably sounds that way, but that's just because you don't know what typical coursework is like. It's not perfect, but it's education for people who envision themselves going into business for themselves. So instead of learning how to work in the HR department of a large company, they learn what to look for when hiring for a small business. Plus, they meet other entrepenuers who have successfully started and developed a business.
                                                  I think that's the important part. My concern about degrees in entrepreneurship relates to who is actually doing the tutoring. If it's mainly "career" tutors I would question their qualification to oversee such a course.

                                                  It's similar to how (at least in the UK) the major banks now all have a "small business" advisor which is just a ludicrous concept - the advisor, having made a career decision to spend his or her working life in a bank, has no empathy or proper understanding of the mindset necessary to become an entrepreneur and is consequently unqualified to offer anything but the most basic financial advice (and from my experience, even that is suspect).

                                                  I just wonder if a formal training in "entrepreneurship" might be just as worthless, unless there was a large input by experienced, successful entrepreneurs themselves.

                                                  As has been stated in other posts, you cannot always identify precisely the elements of your education that are being put to good use in your everyday business (or life!). It's fair to say that every experience impacts in some way on the person you are today, so in that respect, some disciplines drummed into you at school/college may well prove beneficial in an IM business.


                                                  Frank
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
                                                    "Formal education will make you a living. Personal education will make you a FORTUNE."
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                                              • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
                                                Hi Peter,

                                                I'm with Doug on this one ...

                                                I have 2 degrees a BLS and a master's, and find myself using what I learned in every aspect of my business. And to tell you the truth, they aren't business degrees!

                                                Formal education helped me get disciplined in areas I never was before. Goal setting was on of them ... making good decisions was another ... writing and speaking are 2 more.

                                                Did I have to go to college to be educated? No, but it was the right thing for me.

                                                Now to give this entire thread a different twist (if you don't mind Pater?), I'd like to take your question and add to it. It pertains to Internet Businesses or Entrepreneurship in general that may come into play some place down the road.

                                                Does anyone see needing an authentic degree necessary to run a business successfully online at some later date like some of the brick and mortor businesses?

                                                I'm asking because I'm seeing a trend on the Internet here in the past 2 yrs I've never noticed before due to the fakes, scams, etc ...

                                                Take that incident with Alison G for instance just here in this forum. She claimed to be an online lawyer, but yet she had no degree, and tons of people felt ripped off, and were actually taken.

                                                Now this type of thing happens on the Iternet quite a bit doesn't it?

                                                Well, it happened offline many years ago too!

                                                BUT, people started demanding to see credentials to make sure business owners, Doctors, lawyers, etc .. were the experts they claimed to be.

                                                It wouldn't take much for something like this to happen online either given what's been going on on the Internet these days.


                                                Mary
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                  I honestly don't know how to answer this.

                                                  Before getting into IM, I probably had more degrees and certifications than
                                                  your average person.

                                                  As a matter of fact, here they are:

                                                  Finance degree
                                                  Marketing degree
                                                  Music minor
                                                  Novell certification
                                                  MCSE certification
                                                  Web Design State certification
                                                  Web Programming State certification
                                                  Web Administration State certification

                                                  My wall looks very impressive.

                                                  It didn't do squat for me when I started IM.

                                                  However, I don't know how much I learned helped me in learning IM.

                                                  I think the ability to show that you can learn things gives you a better
                                                  shot at having success in IM, though there is no way I can prove this
                                                  for certain.'

                                                  Like I said, I honestly don't know how to answer this question.

                                                  And that's another very long non answer for whoever mentioned it at
                                                  another thread I replied to.

                                                  Guess I'm getting good at non answers.

                                                  Maybe I should have gone into politics.
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  • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
    There is nothing wrong with formal education that a serious dose of the real world won't cure--quickly.

    While many of the technical skills and some of the social skills taught at university level are directly beneficial to entrepreneurs much of the required core isn't.

    "Entrepreneurship" is a state of mind. A way of doing. It's part of one's basic make-up.

    It can be learned but not taught.

    Done right it requires guts, stamina, dedication, perseverance and complete and utter belief in yourself and your abilities.

    Elmer Hurlstone

    PS. Please bear in mind I last attended college a bunch of years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
      Interesting topic.

      Let me just preface my thoughts by sharing that yes I do have formal eductation and went to college.

      I believe that learning and having set goals for instance when doing term papers and having to really research and prepare a quality paper does well for presentation.

      The social atmosphere of interacting with others along the way can prove to be invaluable as well.

      There are many things I took in college years ago that I'm just now beginning to see show up in business.

      However, anyone who hasn't had the opprortunity to go to school,
      don't be discouraged as you can still achieve anything you set your heart and mind to do with faith and if you want it bad enough.

      So, yes, while although thankful for the perks, formal instruction is certainly not a prerequisite for following your life's callings.

      Be encouraged,
      Doug
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  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

    It just got me thinking, what use is a piece of paper saying you can be your own boss - when you're going to be your own boss?

    No doubt the course content is useful (debatable how relevant maybe) but why a degree?

    Peter
    Peter, I see the tongue in your cheek with this post.

    A degree is not a piece of paper its knowledge. Whatever you do you have a much broader outlook on all aspects of life for having done it. You also learn how to write well enough to pass a professors' stern eye. How to associate your ideas with those of others. You make friends on a higher level than otherwise. You socialise without requiring alcohol or drugs to open doors for you. You gain the respect of others. And so I could go on.

    Whatever one does after it the experience and knowledge will always stand out and you'll succeed because anyone who gains a degree is already a winner.
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  • I'm sure the right degree can be very helpful in IM.

    If you have a degree in creative writing, I suspect that would be a huge help in writing smooth sales copy.

    If you have a degree in marketing, I suspect that would be a huge help in planning your marketing strategies.

    I think there's alot of degrees that could be very useful in IM. But, I don't think my degrees in political science and sociology are really much help at all, although I'm a proficient writer thanks to the college education.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bob Monie
    Im actually a Meteorologist. I have a science degree. Yes i have an obsession with the weather.

    Was planning on going to America to chase tornadoes. Iv put that on hold for a while while my IM is going well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Josh, today I really learned something about you.

      Thank you so much for sharing that.

      Shows you how you never really know people.
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      • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
        Aside from general education, it doesn't have a place at all. In my opinion, school is another form of control, that helps weed out the weak(or what's considered to be weak).

        I've always found it to be interesting that such a heavy emphasis is placed on our performance in high school and college as it relates to our success in life. When in fact, we are the most immature that we will ever be, during those years.

        That piece of paper doesn't mean anything if you are self-employed.

        I think that being an avid reader can entirely replace most of what's learned in college, with the exception of math which I believe helps with reasoning skills(I had to say that. My wife has a B.S. in math and will eventually get her masters).

        Overall, there's nothing wrong with getting educated. And even though I didn't attend, I spent a whole bunch of time with the girls at UCLA, UCSB, UC Riverside,Berkley, Stanford, and many other California colleges. So, I'm sure the the college experience is worth going.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          As I re-read this thread, two things pop into my head...

          First, a scene from a movie called "Back to School", where Rodney Dangerfield plays a self-made millionaire who decides to enroll in college with his son. In one business class, the instructor is rumbling on about marketing a product by building the factory, manufacturing the product and then trying to sell it.

          YouTube - Back to School Scene - Business Class

          Second, a line from one of Robert Kiyosaki's books. Can't recall which one offhand...

          "My banker has never asked to see my report card."
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Excellent John

    "Back to School" seems to be referenced a few times on this forum - mind you, one of its stars is a Warrior...



    Is that Sally Kellerman or HeySal?


    Peter
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    • Profile picture of the author jcmentor
      It took me 20 years to figure out why I went to college and got a degree. I thought that it was very important when the insight came, but it must not have been because I can no longer remember what it was that I figured out.

      I do remember that it had little or nothing to do with making money.

      God bless all warriors!

      Jack
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Gentry
        I think maybe a degree in general studies or something like that would introduce you to various subjects which I think you can expand and profit from many niche markets.
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      • Profile picture of the author jbshort
        Very interesting thread.

        Here's my two cents: I think you have to have enough formal education to be able to handle the financial aspects of the business, and it does help to be a good writer.

        But I think really understand how direct marking works will make the biggest difference between success and failure.

        To me, that's the key.
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      • Profile picture of the author saar2222000
        In my experience of 12 years as a skilled blue collar worker ive learned that piece of paper that says you spent four years drinking and wasting your parents money will get you farther than hard work will ever. Ive seen people with no working experience start out making what took me years to get. 10+ years to journeyman level and im making the median average with no room to advance. So here i am trying to make a switch on the internet. So yes as much as I hate to say it a degree will always benifit you in some way or another no matter what you do in life.

        "Death to the industrial age"
        "Long live the information age"
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author saar2222000
            You have a point big mike. But im not talking about doctors or lawyers. But if you didnt notice I said I spent 10+ years mastering my trade. Thats more than doctors or lawyers! What does my view on this have to do with internet marketing? (I didn't go to college so im a little slow)
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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              • Profile picture of the author alex84
                I am doing a BBA, and yes I have student loans to pay back. The BBA is very good to teach you how to run a business, but it doesn't teach you how to run an online business, that will have to come with experience.

                But when i get that degree, I will be very proud to have it and I think it will be useful for getting more credibility if I want to start an offline business, which is my goal. As I would be very interested in starting a business about the offline niche, well I think having a BBA will help me get more clients. Of course the experience I have in IM will be the most important, but having that diploma should make it easier to close a deal with potential clients. Also knowing all about human resources, finance, marketing and the other aspects of a business should be pretty useful.

                As for having solely an online business, I don't think the degree will change much. I find it's really hard to say if a degree can help someone run a business, as there have been many studies that give statistics about successful entrepreneurs. You would be surprised that a big percentage just have their high school diploma. And many of them are millionaires/billionaires. I guess it depends with everyone, some people learn by themselves, while others go to school to get a diploma and learn.
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          • Profile picture of the author davebo
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            • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
              Originally Posted by davebo View Post

              I couldn't agree more. I don't know if people in this thread just find it cool to bash a formal eductation OR (more likely) they are trying to justify NOT having one to themselves. Either way, it's pointless.

              If you don't have one and you are doing fine, then good for you. I've met more people that regretted not giong to college, then people that regret going. It's all fine and dandy to look at your IM business when you're 40 years old and made the decision, but had that not worked out, you might be thinking differently about a college degree.

              Now, if the question was something along the lines of "I'm 45, have a successful business in IM. Should I go to college to formalize my education?". I'd probably say no.
              There has been some unfair criticism of formal education, both you and Big Mike are right, but there's also some people from the other side that have been rather snobby and inflexible too.

              Peter
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              • Profile picture of the author davebo
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                • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                  Originally Posted by davebo View Post

                  Well it's easy to say in hindsight that college doesn't matter, but for 99.999% of people their degrees qualified them for their job. And since the vast majority of IM'ers fail, wouldn't that lead most people to believe that they should get a degree for a backup?
                  Ok, 99.999% ? A guess maybe? Maybe it's a UK anomaly, but here's some more anecdotal evidence: Most of my friends are qualified to degree level. If I think about the first ten that come to mind, two of them actually work in the industry that their degree was designed for. But that's not representative is it - how about some real stats from November last year.

                  A quarter of graduates do not have full-time jobs more than three years after getting their degrees, according to government figures.
                  The Higher Education Statistics Agency, which examined the career progression of 24,000 people, also found that 20 per cent of those who were employed were not working in graduate occupations.

                  The London Times Nov 2007
                  Don't you find these figures scary? A staggering 25% don't have full-time jobs three years after getting their degrees!! Bear in mind that the unemployment rate at the time was about 5%. What's going on there?

                  As for your 99.999%, these stats suggest that no more than 80% are in graduate positions - this would also include positions that simply required a non-specific degree level education, so in fact less than 80%.

                  So no, having a degree may not be the best 'back up'.

                  Just some more things to think about

                  Peter
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      • Profile picture of the author zortag
        There are two ways to answer this question.
        1. Is a formal education NECESSARY for IM?
        Answer: Absolutely not. After a certain point, if you are committed to self education and hard work then yes absolutely you can succeed.

        2. Is a formal eductaion USEFUL for IM?
        Answer: Absolutely! A formal education is useful for all sorts of things, not just IM. Does it guarantee success? Of course not. IM is all about learning what works, having honesty and persistence, and learning from your mistakes. But having a formal education gives you a head start in a number of areas. It is much less likely that I would have been able to launch my backlink service had I not worked in information retrieval research for 8 years, and I would never have been able to get that job had I not gotten lots of formal education. Furthermore, the process of getting a formal education teaches you a certain amount of discipline, hard work, and forces you to learn to synthesize differing points of view. You can get this without formal education certainly but it is harder to do.

        The statistics in the normal employment market speak for themselves - people of the same age with only a high school diploma earn less than those with a college degree who earn less than those with a graduate degree. I'm not sure about the statistics just for entrepreneurs but I'm guessing the statistics are similar. Yes of course there are high school dropouts who make a fortune as entrepreneurs, but when you consider large numbers of people (ie statistics and not just one-off anecdotal evidence) then formal education helps.

        I spent 4 years in college and 8 years in graduate school and don't regret any of it. It helped me a lot! But then again, i still have to work my ass off to keep up with Warrior marketers. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author X
        I have discovered the only people who
        don't value a formal education are those
        who don't have a formal education - or
        those who do, who don't appreciate it,
        haven't yet had enough life experience to
        know better.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tony_D
        So so true. So very true. You learn so much about other people at college. This is invaluable to I.M. as a person with poor social skills probably does not understand people very well and that translates to not being able to sell to people.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
          Originally Posted by Tony_D View Post

          I had classmates in college that would never go out to the bars, never go to frat parties or house parties or anything of the sort. They were always busying themselves with studying and writing reports and such. These individuals, I feel, put themselves at a real disadvantage by not gaining the social skills the rest of us did. You could even see it at career day, when they'd walk right up to a booth, hand out their resume and start talking about their accomplishments without ever shaking anyones hand and without looking the person they were speaking to in the eye.
          I realized this many years ago, but never heard anyone else say it.

          I'm sure most of those people thought they were doing the right thing by focusing on studying, getting good grades, and everything else the authorities tell us to do. It's what I thought at that age, and spent almost all my time doing school work.

          The people who went to the parties are also the ones who graduate having friends whose dad's company offers them a job (for example), while the studious ones are still trying to get interviews.
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  • Profile picture of the author JFrost
    Hi Peter, My experiences with higher education of business is total negative antics. By this I mean Everything is based on murphy's law of whatever can go wrong will go wrong? Why should a student start a business when they are taught they will fail from the start?? Ironic
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  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    People seem to focus more on money as a measure of success than other things gained by expanding your brain power and thinking. A degree makes you think, it also highlights the benefit of peace, love, harmony, understanding and control of one's emotions and direction in life.

    Anyone can have money, stacks of it if they want, the problem is how they get it and what they have contributed to society and the world in general. Right now millionaires are turning into billionaires as the world suffers climate change, the oceans are dying from plastic pollution, the air we breath comprises less oxygen and more carbon, rivers are drying up, agricultural land is turning to salt and massive devastation is just around the corner.

    Despite that our richest people are still chopping down forests, out fishing the oceans, draining rivers for dwindling profits, mining minerals and poisoning the little water and land that is left uncontaminated. Why? So a few can be rich and 'successful' while the rest of us worry about what is to come.

    This morning the ABC broadcast a message by a professor who warns that within a few years Australia will be a fortress fighting to keep the hordes or environmental refugees out. He said the USA and Canada are also preparing their defences for the same onslaught. The question is where do people go and what do we do when we are faced with starving, thirsty and diseased millions knocking on our doors.

    It doesn't matter how much money you have? Most of the billionaires of this world are hell bent on destruction as long as they make money. They don't care about the effect of their activities on others nor about the products and methods of production. They only care about money and the more you have the more, it seems, you want.

    Money is only important because people have made it so. The most important thing for all humans is survival. Clean air to breath, clean water to drink and food in our stomachs. yet, despite the turmoil facing us people are still breeding in unsustainable numbers, still turning to their so-called gods for help, still warring and polluting, still living the dream that man has created.

    As a thinking, intelligent person who undertook a degree in archaeology/anthropology and linguistics, my knowledge tells me that in every past society of note the environment caused its collapse. That wars started over water rights, that genocide of other cultures took place, that people invaded foreign lands and stole from the occupiers whom they mostly killed. If you don't believe me look at the history books.

    We are in for it because most of the people today believe in money rather than knowledge to get ahead. They measure success by their big houses (often numerous in number) while we tether on the brink of the worst economic disaster in history, including the great depression.

    As we build the defenses against refugee invasion from climate change perhaps the millionaires, and there are many who claim to be such in this forum, and those who strive to become one will ponder what we might do when time has run out.

    Money is not a solution to them but a cause of our problems. What we need to do is get knowledge to turn our minds and expand our brains so we become better people and survivors, if that is possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricter
      Best post of the day, Norma. Wrong forum, though. : )

      "If a man walk in the woods for love of them half of each day, he is in danger of being regarded as a loafer; but if he spends his whole day as a speculator, shearing off those woods and making earth bald before her time, he is esteemed an industrious and enterprising citizen."
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      - For your import/export/customs questions or problems, send PM.

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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
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        • Profile picture of the author Texas Belle
          My parents tried to instill the importance of getting formal education into me; only to find out that I dropped out of the college some 6 years later. I remember vividly when I told my parents that I dropped my major to my parents' dismay. Their response, "You will never get anywhere in life. College Education is the key of getting ahead...etc etc."

          5 years later, I am a director of well known and leading agencies in 4th largest cities in USA. Originally, my position was advertised for someone with master's degree, but after an interview, I won over a group of interviewers' panel. I lead a staff of college graduates including one working toward PHd. Odd?!

          I rub elbows with most known people in business world. Many of them does not know that I am a college drop out but is intrigued by my knowledge.

          Recently I was asked to do Media Relations and Marketing for my church, its non paid volunteer position but saw that it is a great addition to my resume when I go into Internet marketing.

          Formal Education is not for everyone but I am a strong supporter for people who want to go to college to increase their livehoods.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
      Originally Posted by norma View Post

      Oh! What is the right forum then? I thought the subject was about a formal education and how it may help us in IM. Isn't good knowledge and careful consideration of others a major part of IM success? Isn't our treatment of others a factor in how they perceive us? These things are not gained necessarily from a degree but they are part of our education and a formal education may help us discern the best way forward without destruction and unwarranted abuse of the rights of others.

      Its all a part of selling and presentation, isn't it?
      I suppose you're right there Norma, but not everyone sees it that way.

      From your earlier post

      Originally Posted by norma View Post

      People seem to focus more on money as a measure of success than other things gained by expanding your brain power and thinking. A degree makes you think, it also highlights the benefit of peace, love, harmony, understanding and control of one's emotions and direction in life.
      Those experiences are yours Norma and they are not exclusive to further education - also, I'd hazard a guess that not everyone who takes a degree would allow themselves to think so much.

      Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Best post of the day, Norma. Wrong forum, though. : )
    Oh! What is the right forum then? I thought the subject was about a formal education and how it may help us in IM. Isn't good knowledge and careful consideration of others a major part of IM success? Isn't our treatment of others a factor in how they perceive us? These things are not gained necessarily from a degree but they are part of our education and a formal education may help us discern the best way forward without destruction and unwarranted abuse of the rights of others.

    Its all a part of selling and presentation, isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
      Mike, ahh you spotted my deliberate omission.

      Yes, I do. Initially in Business Management and I followed it up in later years with Business Advice & Counselling - both degree level.
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          OK then, with that particular education, do you genuinely believe that it does not give you an edge when entering IM or perhaps in IM in general?

          I want to say carefully that I am not suggesting the degree itself is going to presume success. But the preperation in Business Management as opposed to say, someone who spent 10 years working in a skilled trade does not have a place in IM?
          In my case, I believe my education does give me an edge, Mike, of course. If I gave the impression to the contrary during this thread then it was simply in the spirit of debate.

          A couple of posts ago I mentioned that a large proportion of my friends work in industries not related to their degree subject. In my OP I also recounted the time I spoke to Entreprenerial students that didn't want to run a business. Whilst I find this somewhat disappointing, it also begged the question - how useful are people's formal education?

          Over the years I've been fortunate enough to meet many wealthy business people, as you probably have too. It turns out that a fair chunk (yeah, exact science!) left school when they were 16. Of course, most of them had degrees and followed a traditional path through the job market and eventually finding themselves running and owning a business. But there was this 'chunk' that just had an entrepreneurial spirit as a teenager and worked damn hard to achieve their success.

          I've found it interesting, (probably not too surprising) that some people defend their particular educational route quite vehemently, don't you?

          Peter
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          • Profile picture of the author saar2222000
            Great advice big mike. Thanks. Yes 10 years making someone else rich has gotten old.
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  • Profile picture of the author trafficwave
    Actually got in to a conversation with a few folks recently about this topic. Some of them have degrees. We were talking about what we do, how we make our money, etc...

    I was the one in the group that didn't finish his first semester of college. I dropped out and went on tour for 2 years with a band.

    One of the guys said, "Look. Most of us took on tens of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree. When we finished our degree, we HOPED to land a job that would make us around $35K to $50K a year. What the hell were we thinking?"

    I asked and most of them are not working in the area that they studied for in college.

    The hard cold reality is that I make more than some of those guys combined and I have no formal education to speak of.

    Now, having said that, I'm a big fan of education. I've just chosen the informal route.

    I like Kiyosaki's comment referenced earlier about the banker never asking to see the report card. When we get out in the real world, our "report card" is our bank account.
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    TrafficWave.net Email Marketing AutoResponders
    Email Marketing Blog

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