Bad News From Yahoo?

[Zach Booker]

Hey guys,

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I haven't seen a thread about it.

This morning, so I am told, some Yahoo executives said they're getting rid of re-bill offers (RFT's) due to complaints from consumers.

Basically say goodbye to Acai RFT's Colon cleanse RFT's etc etc...

Say goodbye to flogs fake news etc etc...

Not good news at all.

This IS breaking news, and will hit people hard. Hundreds of thousands daily hard.

Please refrain from trying to sound smart and saying that Yahoo gets no traffic and no one makes money from PPC via Yahoo. Yahoo is the worlds largest digital advertising platform.

PPC is the tiniest part of the whole thing. Were talking media buys, ppc, Y!Mail links the whole thing is no longer gonna allow RFT's or flogs or whatever their called.

Also when I logged in I saw this:

Upcoming Systems Maintenance: Due to systems maintenance, certain administrative functions in your Yahoo! Search Marketing account (including changing preferences, payment method, spending limits and account status) will not be available for approximately eight hours, from 6:00 p.m. PDT on Friday, July 24 to 2:00 a.m. PDT on Saturday, July 25. Additionally, data in your account performance reports will not be refreshed for up to 24 hours beginning at 6:00 p.m. PDT on July 24. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

So again this is a case of some people taking re-bill offers too far and ruining it for everyone else.

Did you know the re-bill offers and/or RFT's have been around for years and that they have run very smoothly and have actually had happy customes? (Most people don't hate the product they hate the re-billing.)

But now since some people decided to try and squeeze every last penny, literally, out of the consumer Yahoo is going to "Take a stand" and kill loads of income streams for people who have worked very hard to make a viable business.

Again people ARE spending upwards to 5 figures a day on Yahoo advertising, it isn't some tiny search engine that used to be kinda big-ish.

Anyway I have had several people confirm this to be true, just thought it'd let you guys know if everyone didn't already know.

Zach

P.S- Again all RFT's are not evil, many don't have forced continuity and make just as much profit as the "scam" ones.

People are way to quick to say that one Acai product was a scam so they all must be.

P.P.S- I'd be sooo glad to be proven wrong if someone has evidence that does not support this.

[artwebster]

If one rotten apple can spoil a barrel of apples, isn't the same true of irresponsible marketers? Look around now at what is being taught and preached by every 'me too wannabe a guru' in their regurgitated ebooks and 'reports'. This is a situation that has been building up over a long period of time and it will not be long before it is decided that there needs to be a regulatory body for internet advertising. Just imagine the trouble that will cause - not to mention the costs of financing it.

[TheNightOwl]

@ArtWebster: Bring it on, I say.

Interesting news, Zach. Someone actually predicted this not very long ago in a thread here, I think.

The point that poster was making was something to the effect that regulatory bodies, when they bring the hammer down, tend to do it in an overly-broad manner, "just to be sure".

Things will probably settle down in a few months and they'll reinstate a bunch of sensible guidelines for recurring billing offers and how they're promoted. This is most likely just to clean out the shysters, who'll move on to some other "system-gaming" method.

I think it would, ultimately, be a foolish business decision for Yahoo to unequivocally rule out those kinds of offers.

They're probably just "takin' out the trash" (as the Yanks say).

TheNightOwl

[Zach Booker]

I agree, TheNightOwl, but the thing is once they "loosen the ropes" the same thing will happen. The bad RFT's will sneak in and people will complain etc etc

Funny that just the other day their quarterly profits dropped something like 13%, lol.

@artwebster

Yes I agree. The thing is everyone is trying to achieve fast success and have lost all dignity in the process.

The FTC is already "cracking down" and I have a feeling it's nothing to laugh at this time.

But as with anything there are workaround, has anyone seen the 60 minutes of the multi-million dollar poker sites having their servers in a Canadian Native reserve because their illegal in both Canada and the United States?

[Jay Truman]

Originally Posted by Zach Booker

The FTC is already "cracking down" and I have a feeling it's nothing to laugh at this time.

But as with anything there are workaround, has anyone seen the 60 minutes of the multi-million dollar poker sites having their servers in a Canadian Native reserve because their illegal in both Canada and the United States?

What can the FTC do if the servers are from different countries they have no control over?

Also, the story about 60 mins you are referring to was talking about the scammers of internet poker using there servers in native reserves. The scammers that supposedly cheated poker plays from 20 million. They weren't referring to the poker sites themselves , unless thats another story?

[Zach Booker]

You missed the point completely, lol.

I brang up the 60 minutes story to simply point out that even though online poker is illegal in Canada and the U.S it can still be done by having your servers on the other end.

The FTC can't do anything to you, but they can do **** to your traffic sources.

A.K.A Google, Yahoo!, Msn, Facebook etc etc

By going after the traffic sources and telling them to take down flogs they still get ya.

Again my point in all of this is to simply say a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money as a result of this. Not that there isn't little workarounds and not that you'll be doomed forever.

But imagine getting your income stream struck in half overnight.

Zach

Originally Posted by Jay Truman

What can the FTC do if the servers are from different countries they have no control over?

Also, the story about 60 mins you are referring to was talking about the scammers of internet poker using there servers in native reserves. The scammers that supposedly cheated poker plays from 20 million. They weren't referring to the poker sites themselves , unless thats another story?

[Zach Booker]

Originally Posted by Stephon "Phon" Rudd

Yeah, I've heard about this. Facebook has stopped them too which is aNOTHER incredible traffic source. And, you're right, yahoo is an incredible source. People focus on google like google is god...but keep in mind, yahoo is number 2 in traffic overall worldwide.

But anyway, yeah I've had to take down all of my fake blogs, fake news, fake reviews because of this. Do you know how much money that stuff made me?

UNbelieveable.

So we all have to come up with another strategy for this now. I have a few of my own but I'm open to any ideas too.

Dude, Google seems to hate not-optimized squeeze pages. But Yahoo doesn't seem to mind too bad.

So... Ad>Squeeze page>Offer>Confirm email>Freebie>market away.

Maybe this was a wake up call to start building a list, even though I'm not sure if it'll be as profitable as direct linking or having a simple bridge page.

I was just about to go into Facebook advertising too, oh the joys of IM.

Zach

[grumpyjacksa]

mmm....

first the adwords slap....

then the FTC and "review" sites

then squidoo cleaning house....

now yahoo tightening the reigns....

do you see a trend forming here ?

it's been coming for a while.

there were just too many people doing as they please.....

i expect to see much more "cleaning house" policy changes in the time to come

and yes, it will hurt a lot of innocent people.

but at the end of the day, those marketers who built their businesses by "doing it right", will be the ones left standing - and they will be making MORE than before - because the bad apples will not be competition any more.

i'm not saying that none of the "good guys" will get hurt in the process....

but the "bad guys" will definitely get hurt more

and by the time the worst is over,

the playing field will be more level.

and it should be easier to profit legitimately

just my 0.02c

[Zach Booker]

I'm lovin' the review blog thing!

You know how flogs are like try colon cleanse than acai?

Well how bout this:

1) Click on ad.

2) submit e-mail.

3) Flog telling them to buy colon cleanse than acai. Make sure to have that girl who says "wanna chat" when they try and X.

4) You could use get response and cut out the confirmation.

5) First e-amil gives them their freebie or whatever. Than right after hit them with a colon cleanse review page than the next day your acai review page.

6) Than like every week hit them with more 'reviews'. Takes me like 30 minutes to make a killer review site with Aff theme.

Didn't think this through a whole lot, but has potential. Especially using single opt-in!

Zach

Originally Posted by Stephon "Phon" Rudd

You're right Zach. I've noticed Yahoo's "easier access" as well. It's back to the old days of lead capture and email list marketing. Bad for short term, great for long term.

And, you're right, it won't be as profitable. But, I guess you could just do a real blog offering an "honest" review of the product. It won't convert as well but it's a backup.

Also, think about this one Zach: Ad>Squeeze page>OneTimeOffer>Offer>Confirm email>Freebie>market every 7 days with offer, every 3 days with freebie

OR

Ad > Squeeze Page > One Time Offer > Review Blog > Confirm Email > Freebie > Market

[Gene Pimentel]

Internet Marketing is the Wild West of the 21st century. Very few limitations. Rules are being forged as we go. The "flash in the pan" is being forced to make room for solid business. This is a good thing.

[Zach Booker]

Thing is, Gene, a lot of RFT's are actually very well thought out business'. As i'm sure you know.

It takes a lot of hard work and money to get one set up and a lot of them, as I have said so many times, only try and upsell you or cross sell you. There is no forced continuity. YOU have complete control.

Thing is people take advantage, of course, and we all get "screwed".

Zach

P.S- Keeping with the Wild West theme it's like killing every cowboy cause one robbed a bank. LOL

[Lance K]

Fake blogs, reviews, etc. are tactics.

A real business with a solid plan/strategy centered around providing real value rarely has to worry about these things.


As for the rebills, yes it's a big hit. But they're far from dead. People will find a way to buy that traffic and divert it to the rebill offers. It'll just take some tweaking.

[Zach Booker]

Stephen is 100% right, and I didn't even think of it.

When doing a RFT you basically get a manufacturer who makes these pills for you. (Yes, they're legit they also make them for organic food stores etc.)

Get a fulfillment house who makes the labels and bottles and pretty packaging and who ships it out.

And get a call center who deals with customer support.

PPC, as anyone involved should know, is a huge source of traffic. And by cutting off major PPC networks to re-bills like. Adwords, Yahoo SEM, Adcenter, Facebook, etc this will make an almost pileup accident of people trying to squeeze into other traffic sources.

The offers for Acai will get more competitive cause there's less traffic to go around and many offers will simply stop making money and be discontinued.

Many "super-affiliates" will now all try and compete on the other PPC networks and there'll be a crazy amount of competition.

Anyway this lack of traffic until people start doing other stuff may even trickle to the manufactures who no longer need to make certain items.

This could mean 'real' jobs will be lost.

Of course this is kind of the worst case scenario, but it seems pretty logical doesn't it?

Zach

[Zach Booker]

Another thing to remember, people who have all their marketing 'carrerr' been into PPC don't understand how easy SEO may be. Or how easy offline marketing can be.

It's like doing article marketing all your life and than being asked to make a few grand a day using PPC, not that easy.

So people will panic for awhile and things will become slow and tedious as people decide what to do.

Again this all takes place Friday so you have some time to get a head start.

Zach

[Lance K]

Sorry, I wasn't talking about the companies that make the products. I was referring more to the people who promote the offers. If the bulk of their income relies on the ability to use PPC to send traffic to the offers (either directly or through blogs, reviews, etc.) then that is a tactic.

And I agree that it's a legitimate tactic and do see the value in it. That doesn't change the fact that it's very vulnerable to changes just like the one Yahoo! is doing.

[Zach Booker]

Wow! So soon! I was talking to the supervisor of AM's over at Copeac.

And she basically said people are scrambling and genuinely scared for what's going to happen and it's turning into a real problem.

This Yahoo thing was like the icing on the cake.

When you think about it really there isn't THAT many big traffic sources out there, and none that are as easy as PPC IMO.

I'm hearing things like the big 4 PPC networks are dead as far as re-bills go.

It is actually like a mini depression that will last, most likely, the next month or so.

And Yahoo hasn't even dropped the hammer yet! lol

Zach

[Scott Ames]

Well they screwed themselves as well as many others. I knew it was just a matter of time. I too was caught in this web of decet when I tried a "free sample" of something only to discover I was billed the next month for $69 or some sum.

In looking back at the offer there was no mention of rebilling. One had to click on terms of service and buried deep in those terms was a mention of "sixty nine dollars" spelled out no doubt so they eye would not see $69 . Then when I tried to cancel it was an additional hassle. They tried to make it was hard to cancel as possible.

All this and I was looking to promote them. Thank goodness I tried them first. I wouldn't put anyone through that.

Too bad these greedy jerks ruined it for everyone. Isn't that the way it goes? Greedy bastards are ruining Craigslist, PPC, email, just about anything that used to be good.

[Lance K]

No worries, Stephon. After rereading my post, I don't think I made my point very clearly.

Originally Posted by Stephon "Phon" Rudd

OIC Lance. I stand corrected. You're right my friend. Anyone who only relies on tactics will be hurt by this, you're right.

But if you have a solid business and this is just ONE of your strategies, then you'll make it. So, you're right about that buddy, my mistake. Good interjection too.

[Zach Booker]

Didn't mean to sound like the only way to go is Google, well you know that.

I meant the fact that when you combine Google, Yahoo, Facebook, MSN altogether you get a very large sum of traffic.

And when that traffic goes bye bye people are gonna scramble, like they are right now.

I just got notice a few campaigns got dropped from my favorite network too...and they all had $1+ EPC's witch isn't too bad.

Scary.

@Scott

Craigslist is the best example possible, it's really almost sad how much marketers ruined it. And it doesn't take long either.

Zach

Originally Posted by Stephon "Phon" Rudd

Oh, that's the thing. Google is number one in search. They aren't number 1 in ad market reach. Not even CLOSE. Google, as large as it is, only has about 11% reach. That means, out of all the sites who runs ads online, theirs are on about 11% of them.

Well, Advertising.com has 97%, Value Click has about 79%, Tribal Fusion has 59%...so why is everyone so stuck on google? Because they simply don't know that there are way better traffic sources out there than Google. And they convert better too, withOUT flogs.

[BigVin]

I think a lot of real businesses are going to start going offline again. No longer is online traffic super cheap (it can be but not for many).

Google is hitting everyone with "Slap 09", Yahoo is doing the same.

The internet is soon going to be getting more difficult for the little guys to come in.

It's maturing fast.

I can send out letters to BUYERS (as opposed to looky loos) for less than a click in hot markets.

A lot of innocent businesses are going to go down (like in 06). In the end it will be better but there's going to be growing pains.

[Yogini]

There are a lot of complaints on the different better business sites, complaint sites and rip off report types of sites where people complain about trial offers and getting re-billed etc. I remember reading one where someone said they did try to cancel the offer within 30 days but the phone was constantly busy. Others said that the price was in tiny print hidden on the site. I am not sure how this will resolve.

Debbie

[Dave Bean]

I am sick and tired of people saying that it's illegal for US citizens and Canadians to play poker online for real money.

It is not.

Watch this entire video and learn the REAL facts.

YouTube - Inside Look - Legalize Internet Poker?...

Do I really have to spend the rest of my life as TheUnknownGoober?

Dave